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Elizabeth Warren 2020


Hugo Stiglitz

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5 hours ago, tantric superman said:

Just because they suck doesn't mean her "you're stupid as fuck so I'll lower my voice to explain" delivery and her overall goofiness didn't make one roll one's eyes.

I've said I thought she was the smartest of the bunch but smarts kind of a negative with you Americans. 

To paraphrase my sister "I'd like Warren more if Kate McKinnon just played her all the time in real life."

The point isn't your opinion on her speaking style. The point is that other candidates get free passes for what are equal or worse flaws. The candidates that get those free passes tend to have something in common. No one will write the obit for Bernie Sanders 2016-2020 campaigns in the way you described hers. "Progressive champion who injected new ideas into Democratic discourse and laid the ground work for significant progressive policy accomplishments in the future. But FUCK, dude was really angry, amirite?" That won't happen.

 

4 hours ago, Dnaguy said:

 

You mean that people didn’t want to vote for their mom who keeps telling them to clean their room and stop eating junk food?

OIr Vote for their aloof aunt who always gave them shitty gender neutral educational gifts when they grew up?

I mean, it’s sexist as shit but that’s the vibe I always got from them as candidates.

[ducks]

Well, you said it, so at least you know it? To say scolding/anger and aloofness are problems when we're left with Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden, respectively, doesn't pass the smell test.

3 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

I agree, there is a double standard.

 

1 hour ago, Bateshorn said:

Given a couple of the fuck yeahs I’ve just seen, I clearly need to be a more thoughtful about how I evaluate things vis-a-vis ingrained gender roles and stereotypes. 
 

My bad. 

It's a lot harder to to just admit it than double down. +rep.

1 hour ago, mdmost said:

My wife, who was very passionate about Warren, is very similar to how Brisket's wife and friends feel. She's pretty pissed off and dejected. She has plenty of hot sports opinions on the media's coverage or lack of coverage for Warren over the men in this race. She also holds a grudge for Bernie and his supporters. That said, she'll support whomever the nominee is and hopes Warren is a part of the coalition built around the winner. 

 

1 hour ago, G650 said:

Ditto.

 

55 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Adding my wife as well.

Also more or less my girlfriend. Gee, think there might be a pattern here. Women have been outvoting men in 2018 and early returns are that 2020 is going to see the same thing. No bueno for GOP.

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9 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

The point isn't your opinion on her speaking style. The point is that other candidates get free passes for what are equal or worse flaws. The candidates that get those free passes tend to have something in common. No one will write the obit for Bernie Sanders 2016-2020 campaigns in the way you described hers. "Progressive champion who injected new ideas into Democratic discourse and laid the ground work for significant progressive policy accomplishments in the future. But FUCK, dude was really angry, amirite?" That won't happen.

Blame Larry David, not me, that cranky old jews are more palatable today than Liz Warren is.  Maybe if Golden Girls or Maude or Miss Marple had started their runs in 2015 things would be different.

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31 minutes ago, mdmost said:

The one upside you can take from Super Tuesday is African American vote was really high and mostly all went to Biden. So a group that stayed home in a decent number in 2016 and didn't come out for Hillary, came out for Biden. Biden wins you some Midwest states. Yeah, it sucks two old white guys are the only alternatives but in the end, it's all about beating the old white guy in the Oval Office. And Warren voters aren't going to stay home. They know what's at stake. 

2 white guys > 1 orange guy

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anybody watching Liz on Maddow right now? 

she would have been good. 

she didn't have much to say about Joe, vague 'decency' comments. talked at length about bullying by Bernie supporters, said she tried to talk about it with Bernie and the conversation was "short' lol

"we were never going to elect a catholic until we did, we were never going to elect a black man until we did, and we're never going to elect a woman... until we do."

*sigh*

 

 

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7 hours ago, tantric superman said:

The very weird thing is that I assumed my thoughts were based on my own sexism.  I still think they impulsively are, but I found that all the members of my family, including the females, and most of my friends (including my female friends) agreed with my assessment that she was off putting in demeanor and style.   My wife hates all politicians but sucks it up to vote and usually pushes the trigger for the most union oriented candidate (she voted Bernie).  She walked by the tv during a debate when Warren was speaking and just muttered "Jesus" and walked by. 

She thought UT law school was 99% bullshit so Warren as a professor their was actually a negative.

Women can be sexist too

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41 minutes ago, mchookem said:

anybody watching Liz on Maddow right now? 

she would have been good. 

she didn't have much to say about Joe, vague 'decency' comments. talked at length about bullying by Bernie supporters, said she tried to talk about it with Bernie and the conversation was "short' lol

"we were never going to elect a catholic until we did, we were never going to elect a black man until we did, and we're never going to elect a woman... until we do."

*sigh*

 

 

Should we rope in Bernie's white knight on this one? Or is he too busy spiking the football because she had to drop out? 

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Yes, it is a question they asked all of them. Is she serious with this?

The campaigns are responsible for their supporters' online behavior, Bernie's are the worst, therefore.... what? There's nothing here. There's no conclusion, just open-ended hurt feelings and a victimhood complex. It's childish. It's weak.

I get that it satisfies MSNBC, its audience, and anti-Bernies online, but what does it actually mean? What's the significance to voters or the real world?

Her political instincts are just so terrible. She's so easily led by the nose by basically anyone who puts on a sincere voice and face.

Here is the common sense answer: Whoever has the youngest and most male supporters are going to have the most online roughhousing. 

Bernie is the candidate the youngsters love, so he's going to have the most online roughhousers.

Does anyone have a more rational explanation?

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Now live with the fact that it turns off a decent segment of the voting populus and stands in the way of what you're trying to accomplish. I mean, there's a reason people are enjoying the meltdown right now.  And she's right, she doesn't owe anyone a damn thing right now. She can take her sweet time. 

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Just now, mdmost said:

Now live with the fact that it turns off a decent segment of the voting populus and stands in the way of what you're trying to accomplish. I mean, there's a reason people are enjoying the meltdown right now. 

Does it turn off a statistically significant portion of the voting populace? Do you have any evidence for that? Any exit polling?

Because all I'm seeing from you here is that you are too wrapped up emotionally with online culture and have your feelings about it ranked above substantive issues.

You know how right-wingers don't really care that their own party is raping them as long as the libs get owned and they get to drink lib tears? That is you guys right now.

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9 hours ago, hpslugga said:

My one issue with this is that Warren had every bit as much ammo to go after Biden in the exact same way. She chose not to, and, if she really is the progressive she claims to be, I have no idea why.

I assume you are talking mostly about the Vegas debate (because the SC debate was an unmitigated shitshow).

You forget Warren's brand of progressivism: financial justice and anti-corruption. You'd have to be ignorant of her to think that she would pass up the opportunity to lay into a billionaire trying to buy his way to the nomination just to try to dunk on Joe Biden.

You also forget the state of the race before Nevada. Biden was reeling and Bloomberg was this great intangible Nothing spreading over the land. We should be grateful she took him down.

 

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7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Does it turn off a statistically significant portion of the voting populace? Do you have any evidence for that? Any exit polling?

Because all I'm seeing from you here is that you are too wrapped up emotionally with online culture and have your feelings about it ranked above substantive issues.

You know how right-wingers don't really care that their own party is raping them as long as the libs get owned and they get to drink lib tears? That is you guys right now.

I mean he got his ass beat on Super Tuesday when he was the clear favorite. That was evidence of something that wasn't in his favor and voters not being particularly attached to him. Or they just voted against him for the lolz. And you can keep pulling your shit and trying to guilt me, I really don't care. I'm voting for the Democrat no matter what. That's all that matters to me right now. Am I enjoying what you're experiencing right now? Yeah. I'll cop to being petty like that. 

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Just now, mdmost said:

I mean he got his ass beat on Super Tuesday when he was the clear favorite. That was evidence of something that wasn't in his favor and voters not being particularly attached to him. 

Bernie was not the clear favorite going into Super Tuesday. The polling shifted dramatically after SC and on the morning of Super Tuesday 538's forecast had Biden ahead in their average of delegate scenarios.

Perhaps what you meant there was how he went into SC and expected to be -10/-15 below Biden but ended up -30?

Because... I'm not sure what connection there is between the Bernie Bros and any of that. Biden blew Bernie out with older black voters. Are you arguing that older black ladies on Twitter were tired of being threatened online by leftists so they went hard to Biden?

It really seems like you're abandoning any pretense about this being a real issue and just feeling deep disliking of me personally, which is understandable and fine.

So for those of you who genuinely wanted Warren to do well, do y'all think this very narrow sense of being personally aggrieved by the Internet was a hindrance or a help?

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Yeah it's not really fair to judge women in general as uniquely aggrieved and thin-skinned and emotionally reactionary.

After all, Amy had the humility to realize her race was run and that her value to her beliefs called her to drop and endorse the candidate with the largest chance to win and that shared her values. She did it quickly, without a lot of "look at me!", without a lot of public weeping and acting wounded. She sucked it up, smiled, and enthusiastically promoted her ideological interests no matter how she felt in the back room.

I might not agree with Klobuchar's ideological positions, but damned if I'm going to think women are overly emotionalize their political practice and behavior. Gender's not part of the equation, really.

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You think you get it, but I do not believe you do and I'm too weary to explain. The discussions hashed out the  mistakes that various perspectives believe were made in the campaign, and the support that will now move on to the eventual nominee. Just go back to defending and supporting Bernie Sanders. Please.

 

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24 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Yeah it's not really fair to judge women in general as uniquely aggrieved and thin-skinned and emotionally reactionary.

After all, Amy had the humility to realize her race was run and that her value to her beliefs called her to drop and endorse the candidate with the largest chance to win and that shared her values. She did it quickly, without a lot of "look at me!", without a lot of public weeping and acting wounded. She sucked it up, smiled, and enthusiastically promoted her ideological interests no matter how she felt in the back room.

I might not agree with Klobuchar's ideological positions, but damned if I'm going to think women are overly emotionalize their political practice and behavior. Gender's not part of the equation, really.

Each of the candidates have run long, grueling campaigns and each has every right to drop out when they feel the time is right. None of them overstayed their welcome.  Each of the younger candidates (Beto, Pete, Klobuchar etc.) will have other chances to run again and probably were able to get nice positions with the future Biden administration, but this was Warren's only shot and she will almost certainly need to stay in the Senate. She (and any of the other candidates) has every right to have an emotional reaction FFS. 

For any supporter of the three old bags of gas left standing to judge Warren (or any woman) for being "thin-skinned and emotionally reactionary" is really rich, especially considering each of them are the most thin-skinned and emotionally reactionary candidates in the race. Bernie is all flailing unintelligible anger at every turn, Biden can't take any criticism without getting upset, and Trump is well...Trump.

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4 minutes ago, bonnieblue said:

She (and any of the other candidates) has every right to have an emotional reaction FFS.

Sure, I agree.

I never argued that Warren should drop out and I am not arguing that she should endorse anyone at all, much less my favored candidate. She's independent and free to make her own choices for her own reasons and she doesn't owe anyone anything.

Quote

For any supporter of the three old bags of gas left standing to judge Warren (or any woman) for being "thin-skinned and emotionally reactionary" is really rich, especially considering each of them are the most thin-skinned and emotionally reactionary candidates in the race. Bernie is all flailing unintelligible anger at every turn, Biden can't take any criticism without getting upset, and Trump is well...Trump.

It's not a gender thing, I agree.

There are machine-focused politicians who see the world in Matrix code and suppress their emotions until they get into the backroom where they can chuck a stapler at an intern's head. There are more authentic human politicians who put the humanity inside of them forward and let it steer them.

I don't think I'm "judging" Warren for it, I'm just pointing it out. I would prefer a human to a machine, personally.

There is the unfortunate reality that a bunch of unified machines have a strategic and tactical advantage over disorganized humans in the short term. And that's not a low-key call for Warren to endorse Bernie, it's just knowing what the pieces on the board are.

I like the humans, and I want us to win. If not right now in this moment, I want us to keep fighting and keep being humans and win eventually.

I would rather Warren take all the time she needs, even if it means 5 months, and come back ready to fight tooth and nail for economic and racial justice than to rush into a decision she's not comfortable with and become jaded and lose long-term interest.

I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm trying to be smarmy or something, I mean it sincerely.

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2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Because I want Elizabeth Warren to continue to be a champion of progressive causes and I will support her in those efforts because it was never just about fandoms during a presidential campaign for me. :)

I'm sure she reads this thread and your content is giving her the moral support she needs to continue.  

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4 minutes ago, Longhornfan1024 said:

I'm sure she reads this thread and your content is giving her the moral support she needs to continue.  

When Bernie Bros are toxic, it's important and matters a lot.

When they're not, they're lame and embarrassing for being sincere.

#Unity

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Don't know if it's been mentioned, but there is a social media push for Warren to get the Senate Majority Leader position.  It would be a great way for her to transition her campaign into supporting Senate campaigns, particularly women candidates.  Ignore the Presidential race, don't endorse, and turn that energy to the Senate. 

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3 minutes ago, Tuco said:

Don't know if it's been mentioned, but there is a social media push for Warren to get the Senate Majority Leader position.  It would be a great way for her to transition her campaign into supporting Senate campaigns, particularly women candidates.  Ignore the Presidential race, don't endorse, and turn that energy to the Senate. 

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3 minutes ago, Tuco said:

Don't know if it's been mentioned, but there is a social media push for Warren to get the Senate Majority Leader position.  It would be a great way for her to transition her campaign into supporting Senate campaigns, particularly women candidates.  Ignore the Presidential race, don't endorse, and turn that energy to the Senate. 

Hell she should be the minority leader ASAP.  She's infinitely better than Chuck.

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6 minutes ago, Tuco said:

Don't know if it's been mentioned, but there is a social media push for Warren to get the Senate Majority Leader position.  It would be a great way for her to transition her campaign into supporting Senate campaigns, particularly women candidates.  Ignore the Presidential race, don't endorse, and turn that energy to the Senate. 

Love this idea. I think I heard somewhere that she's supposed to have a call later today with the Biden campaign. 

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My wife, who was very passionate about Warren, is very similar to how Brisket's wife and friends feel. She's pretty pissed off and dejected. She has plenty of hot sports opinions on the media's coverage or lack of coverage for Warren over the men in this race. She also holds a grudge for Bernie and his supporters. That said, she'll support whomever the nominee is and hopes Warren is a part of the coalition built around the winner. 

Same. Is it surprising the media didn’t cover her as much or that she was held to a different standard than the men in the race? No. But it’s just so damn tiring to see it again and again and again. We’re tired man. But like in everything else we do, we regroup, stand up and keep going.

Ill vote for whomever is the nominee but damn if the choices don’t suck.
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2 minutes ago, sachick said:


Same. Is it surprising the media didn’t cover her as much or that she was held to a different standard than the men in the race? No. But it’s just so damn tiring to see it again and again and again. We’re tired man. But like in everything else we do, we regroup, stand up and keep going.

Ill vote for whomever is the nominee but damn if the choices don’t suck.

This is me as well.

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Don't know if it's been mentioned, but there is a social media push for Warren to get the Senate Majority Leader position.  It would be a great way for her to transition her campaign into supporting Senate campaigns, particularly women candidates.  Ignore the Presidential race, don't endorse, and turn that energy to the Senate. 

Love the idea of this. She should focus on flipping the senate. I’m not hopeful that she would be selected as majority leader because well .... men but it’s worth a shot. Anything to get Moscow Mitch out of power.
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Part of me keeps thinking the hardcore, asshole Bernie bros arent actual supporters but rather outside actors, sewing division to create chaos, and Bernie shouldn’t suffer because of them.

 

But then I remember b_t.

 

 

 

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The President's continuous use of the nickname Pocahontas and all of its reiterations is abhorrent. Americans with tribal affiliation or recognized ancestry comprise < 3 million people and the casual use of Pocahontas' name as a slander is typical of someone who is oblivious to her story.

*The President tweeted about Warren today in reference to Bernie Sanders.

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