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Fire Shaka Smart

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By smokebomb
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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Mo Horn said:

Love how FU Chip Brown tweets about the team and Shaka when they're in danger of losing but nothing after they win. He's so in the fire Shaka camp. Much to Chip's, and many in this threads chagrin, he may have saved his job by getting the last 2 wins. 

i don't think that anything Texas does in the NIT has any effect on what CDC wants to do with Shaka. If the buyout didn't exist we could win the NIT and Shaka would still get canned. Nothing he does here matters.

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Red Five
Red Five

That is tough to accomplish in four years, but I wouldn't put it past Shaka.

immamac
immamac
Camelback80
Camelback80

Shaka should definitely get at least one more year. Many of his recruits will finally be upperclassmen by then, and he'll have his best shot of any year he's been here. Fans need to realize 2 maj

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 18960

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Mo Horn said:

Love how FU Chip Brown tweets about the team and Shaka when they're in danger of losing but nothing after they win. He's so in the fire Shaka camp. Much to Chip's, and many in this threads chagrin, he may have saved his job by getting the last 2 wins. 

This is pretty ridiculous. If CDC can find a way to lessen Shaka’s buyout and move on from him, he will. Winning 2 games in the NIT will not affect CDC’s decision either way.

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mr. sunshine

mr. sunshine 2819

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Mo Horn said:

Love how FU Chip Brown tweets about the team and Shaka when they're in danger of losing but nothing after they win. He's so in the fire Shaka camp. Much to Chip's, and many in this threads chagrin, he may have saved his job by getting the last 2 wins. 

I’m with you. Chip Brown didn’t tweet about it when I was accepted into the prestigious Columbia Record & Tape Club either 

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 48688

Posted
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

i don't think that anything Texas does in the NIT has any effect on what CDC wants to do with Shaka. If the buyout didn't exist we could win the NIT and Shaka would still get canned. Nothing he does here matters.

 

11 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

This is pretty ridiculous. If CDC can find a way to lessen Shaka’s buyout and move on from him, he will. Winning 2 games in the NIT will not affect CDC’s decision either way.

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Edited by LTtxfan
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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, NowThis said:

the correct answer is Johnny Dawkins 

ok. i've been wondering for a while if "now this" is a clever name for a troll account that exclusively posts outlandish takes nit does it earnestly, and at this point i'm convinced that's exactly what it is. because "now this" is pretty close to my exact reaction to everything you post. so it's either job well done on the long game troll job, or may god have mercy on your soul.

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NowThis

NowThis 931

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

ok. i've been wondering for a while if "now this" is a clever name for a troll account that exclusively posts outlandish takes nit does it earnestly, and at this point i'm convinced that's exactly what it is. because "now this" is pretty close to my exact reaction to everything you post. so it's either job well done on the long game troll job, or may god have mercy on your soul.

problem is that you are clueless about basketball, going back a decade on Hornfans.  Learn me young skywalker. 

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Tired Horn

Tired Horn 733

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Mo Horn said:

Love how FU Chip Brown tweets about the team and Shaka when they're in danger of losing but nothing after they win. He's so in the fire Shaka camp. Much to Chip's, and many in this threads chagrin, he may have saved his job by getting the last 2 wins. 

I'm all for the players getting some more wins in their college career, but the NIT is by definition meaningless. If a school has any aspirations to be a serious basketball program, being in the NIT as opposed to the NCAA tournament means your season is a failure. 

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SwanderedTalent

SwanderedTalent 5761

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

This is pretty ridiculous. If CDC can find a way to lessen Shaka’s buyout and move on from him, he will. Winning 2 games in the NIT will not affect CDC’s decision either way.

this

As for Johnny Dawkins, which someone else said but I forgot to multi-quote, I don't think he's done anything in his career that justifies someone confidently saying he's the "answer", but I think he's a reasonable candidate. I think though that when you look past the Duke pedigree and all of the baggage that comes with "ZOMG he was a heady player!", his Stanford tenure was totally underwhelming and coaching Tacko Fail and giving Duke a good R32 game doesn't indicate he's suddenly figured out how to run a program. He's basically Tommy Amaker. We can do better. 

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dcar00

dcar00 13861

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, rickyspub said:

If CDC is ONLY going to fire Shaka if he can save a few million on his buyout by finding him a 'soft landing' then we have the wrong AD.

right. because of the 13M, he's only going to fire him if he has his guy.  

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DanTheHorn

DanTheHorn 4849

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, hookem48 said:

skimming through this thread the last few days I really thought UT had already lost to Xavier 

They did everything they could to lose to Xavier even though chances were there to put things away. Only reason they did not lose is because Xavier also sucks and did not capitalize on the chokes. It is good for the team and irrelevant to Shaka's eventual firing because he is no good for this program and will take it nowhere.

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rickyspub

rickyspub 801

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

right. because of the 13M, he's only going to fire him if he has his guy.  

Exactly. I am confident if CDC has his guy he will pull the trigger. The admin isn't going to hold him accountable for a bad contract made by his predecessor. The question is just what sort of coaching list does CDC have. I am going to guess it is realistic, but I hope it goes beyond one or two names.

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dcar00

dcar00 13861

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, rickyspub said:

Exactly. I am confident if CDC has his guy he will pull the trigger. The admin isn't going to hold him accountable for a bad contract made by his predecessor. The question is just what sort of coaching list does CDC have. I am going to guess it is realistic, but I hope it goes beyond one or two names.

IMO, it shouldn't be more than 3 names.  more than that and you don't have "your guy".   we aren't going to fire Shaka, pay 13M and then have CDC tell the money guys he had to go to his 4th, 5th, 6th choice.  we'll see.  I'm certainly not in the camp that says he will be 100% fired this year.  the soft landing spot thing is fools gold IMO.  if CDC can do that I will be very impressed.

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ClubWhatever

ClubWhatever 12066

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

He's coming back. Everyone should start accepting it.

I have accepted it.  I am mentally prepared for shit basketball for at least 12 more months.  The really bad part is, it could be 24 more months, because I think the buyout issue could still be too much to overcome at this time next year too.

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Js1

Js1 82350

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

IMO, it shouldn't be more than 3 names.  more than that and you don't have "your guy".   we aren't going to fire Shaka, pay 13M and then have CDC tell the money guys he had to go to his 4th, 5th, 6th choice.  we'll see.  I'm certainly not in the camp that says he will be 100% fired this year.  the soft landing spot thing is fools gold IMO.  if CDC can do that I will be very impressed.

Exactly.

3 names on your list worth $13 million - if one gives you a 100% guarantee, you pull the trigger.  I trust CDC won't fall for any of his names angling for raises.

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rickyspub

rickyspub 801

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

IMO, it shouldn't be more than 3 names.  more than that and you don't have "your guy".   we aren't going to fire Shaka, pay 13M and then have CDC tell the money guys he had to go to his 4th, 5th, 6th choice.  we'll see.  I'm certainly not in the camp that says he will be 100% fired this year.  the soft landing spot thing is fools gold IMO.  if CDC can do that I will be very impressed.

The maxim I have heard is that an AD always has 'Top 5' list of replacement coaches for each job. I just hope that CDC's list isn't topped by Coach K, Izzo, Roy Williams, Bill Self, or Jay Wright with Chris Beard as the only guy we have even a slight chance of getting at the bottom. 

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Skipper

Skipper 5952

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, rickyspub said:

If CDC is ONLY going to fire Shaka if he can save a few million on his buyout by finding him a 'soft landing' then we have the wrong AD.

Posts like this are so fucking stupid.  Please let us know when your 7 figure buyout donation hits then you can have this opinion.

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rickyspub

rickyspub 801

Posted
Posted
Just now, Skipper said:

Posts like this are so fucking stupid.  Please let us know when your 7 figure buyout donation hits then you can have this opinion.

I love how people with money are the only ones allowed to have an opinion. If CDC fires Shaka this season will you shut the fuck up and never share your opinions again? 

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Nolacycling

Nolacycling 893

Posted
Posted
23 hours ago, TxTower said:

Shaka need look no further than the firing of Avery Johnson to see his fate. The similarities are too numerous to mention. Almost a mirror image of Shaka’s four year run of mediocrity here with the only possible exception that Shaka recruited better.

SIAP.  AJ's contract goes through '23 and he's being paid 3mil per. Alabama said a buyout is being negotiated and my math tells me they owe him 12 mil. Sounds familiar.

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Braff Zacklin

Braff Zacklin 13284

Posted
Posted

Ultimately, it's a business. CDC must weigh a) the cost of Shaka's buyout (and potential buyout for his replacement) with b) the estimated loss in revenue caused by Shaka's underperforming teams.

For now, a) appears to be more than b), so it doesn't make good financial sense to fire Shaka. When b) is greater than a), he gone.

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Machinator

Machinator 32097

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Nolacycling said:

SIAP.  AJ's contract goes through '23 and he's being paid 3mil per. Alabama said a buyout is being negotiated and my math tells me they owe him 12 mil. Sounds familiar.

Or, you could use Google and find out very quickly that his buyout is $8M.

https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/sports/2019/03/24/alabama-avery-johnson-mutually-part-ways-after-buyout-agreement/3247175002/

Edited by Machinator
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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 48688

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Machinator said:

Or, you could use the Google and find out very quickly that his buyout is $8M.

https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/sports/2019/03/24/alabama-avery-johnson-mutually-part-ways-after-buyout-agreement/3247175002/

 

"Johnson earned $3.06 million in 2018-19 as college basketball’s 19th-highest paid head coach, according to USA Today’s annual coaching salary database, and was set to receive an $8 million buyout should he be fired without cause prior to April 15 as stipulated in a 2017 contract extension that ran through 2023.

Of course, the negotiations over the last three days likely allowed both parties to save face financially with a mutually-agreed upon figure in what appears to be a peaceful breakup."

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

So appears that  Avery took less than the $8mill from Bama for the buyout.....  Gonna be interesting to see who Bama hires to replace Avery.

 

Edited by LTtxfan
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Skipper

Skipper 5952

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Ultimately, it's a business. CDC must weigh a) the cost of Shaka's buyout (and potential buyout for his replacement) with b) the estimated loss in revenue caused by Shaka's underperforming teams.

For now, a) appears to be more than b), so it doesn't make good financial sense to fire Shaka. When b) is greater than a), he gone.

Well, according to Rickyspub, you are wrong, the University of Texas is playing with monopoly money and CDC is a failure if he doesn't cut a $13MM check to fire Shaka the second the season is over while he is managing half a dozen other ongoing capital intensive projects.   CDC may very well decide it makes sense to eat the buyout now, but it's the fiscally clueless idiots on here that act like it's an easy or obvious decision that wear most of us out.

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Nolacycling

Nolacycling 893

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, LTtxfan said:

 

"Johnson earned $3.06 million in 2018-19 as college basketball’s 19th-highest paid head coach, according to USA Today’s annual coaching salary database, and was set to receive an $8 million buyout should he be fired without cause prior to April 15 as stipulated in a 2017 contract extension that ran through 2023.

Of course, the negotiations over the last three days likely allowed both parties to save face financially with a mutually-agreed upon figure in what appears to be a peaceful breakup."

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

So appears that  Avery took less than the $8mill from Bama for the buyout.....  Gonna be interesting to see who Bama hires to replace Avery.

 

My bad. But in regards to sec basketball, I'm sickened by Bruce Pearl and his success, he seems like such a con man. did an Auburn ass't get pinched in FBI sting?  #2 Kelvin Sampson.

Life's not fair.

Edited by Nolacycling
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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 48688

Posted
Posted (edited)

Still hoping that a decent opportunity comes Shaka's way so he can leave Texas now.  Seems like his last chance at gaining approval from Texas fans was this year.  The low turnout during the first two NIT games is not what any AD or Head Coach wants to see in the 4th Season of a HC's program.

Might be crazy, but still hoping for a 2019 soft landing for Shaka and a new Head Coach for Texas Basketball... 🤘 

 

Edited by LTtxfan
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Machinator

Machinator 32097

Posted
Posted
On 3/22/2019 at 12:32 PM, RexWilson said:

Can we try the tactic is using to get rid of their coach? We have a tennis opening.

Drew on Friday had his first sit-down meeting with new athletic director Malcolm Turner, sources told ESPN. In what would be an unusual move, Turner is looking to reassign Drew to another position in the school to avoid paying his buyout, according to sources.

 

On 3/22/2019 at 12:51 PM, Machinator said:

It's going to backfire on them.

Who could have seen this coming?

 

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rickyspub

rickyspub 801

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Well, according to Rickyspub, you are wrong, the University of Texas is playing with monopoly money and CDC is a failure if he doesn't cut a $13MM check to fire Shaka the second the season is over while he is managing half a dozen other ongoing capital intensive projects.   CDC may very well decide it makes sense to eat the buyout now, but it's the fiscally clueless idiots on here that act like it's an easy or obvious decision that wear most of us out.

It isn't paid as a lump sum. It will likely be paid over the course of his remaining contract length since the amount will be adjusted based on any future coaching income. We aren't paying him $12+M now and hoping he will send us check each year to reimburse him for future employment. 

If a new coach comes in and wins early, we will easily make up the money in ticket sales by the time that last payment comes due on Shaka's buyout. We averaged 10,500 at our home games this season. In the below average 2011-12 season we had close to 13,500 per home game. That sort of attendance increase alone could make up the buyout difference over the next 3 years.

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 18960

Posted
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, rickyspub said:

It isn't paid as a lump sum. It will likely be paid over the course of his remaining contract length since the amount will be adjusted based on any future coaching income. We aren't paying him $12+M now and hoping he will send us check each year to reimburse him for future employment. 

If a new coach comes in and wins early, we will easily make up the money in ticket sales by the time that last payment comes due on Shaka's buyout. We averaged 10,500 at our home games this season. In the below average 2011-12 season we had close to 13,500 per home game. That sort of attendance increase alone could make up the buyout difference over the next 3 years.

Lol. An extra 3,000 people per game doesn’t come close to making up Shaka’s buyout per year. Basketball has never had huge revenues and a good coach doing well in his first couple years won’t increase revenue by 3 mil per year.  

You need to chill on the money thing becuase it’s not that simple. CDC has a lot of things to weigh, like using his political capital and fundraising resources on this versus other projects, not to mention the buyout means we’ll be stuck with our new coach for a minimum of four years, so CDC can’t take a risk an a guy with a short resume (who would also likely be cheaper than a proven coach and have a smaller buyout than a guy like Beard). Shaka’s buyout means someone who could have a high variance, like Musselman is off the table even if CDC likes him, because if that goes south by year two, we’ll still be stuck with him for two more years.

It’s not as simple as just saying there’s only a difference of $3 million.

Edited by Burt Macklin
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Machinator

Machinator 32097

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, rickyspub said:

If a new coach comes in and wins early, we will easily make up the money in ticket sales by the time that last payment comes due on Shaka's buyout. We averaged 10,500 at our home games this season. In the below average 2011-12 season we had close to 13,500 per home game. That sort of attendance increase alone could make up the buyout difference over the next 3 years.

2011-12 was only one season removed from a year where we spent most of the season in the top 10 and at least won a tournament game. We would be 9 years removed from that season for 2019-20. It's going to take longer than you think to regain the fans' trust in a sport that people don't care about as much, especially when you consider that the first flashy hire we made failed spectacularly. There's also the possibility that we see roster turnover from a coaching change, which means the turnaround for the program might not be as quick as we'd like (it should still take no more than two or three seasons).

None of this is to say we shouldn't make a change (we should), but that the financial benefits from making a change aren't as clear-cut as it seems.

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rickyspub

rickyspub 801

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Lol. An extra 3,000 people per game doesn’t come close to making up Shaka’s buyout per year. Basketball has never had huge revenues and a good coach doing well in his first couple years won’t increase revenue by 3 mil per year.  

You need to chill on the money thing becuase it’s not that simple. CDC has a lot of things to weigh, like using his political capital and fundraising resources on this versus other projects, not to mention the buyout means we’ll be stuck with our new coach for a minimum of four years, so CDC can’t take a risk an a guy with a short resume (who would also likely be cheaper than a proven coach and have a smaller buyout than a guy like Beard). Shaka’s buyout means someone who could have a high variance, like Musselman is off the table even if CDC likes him, because if that goes south by year two, we’ll still be stuck with him for two more years.

It’s not as simple as just saying there’s only a difference of $3 million.

Wait, so you are saying we are stuck with Shaka for 4 more years no matter what? I am not arguing in that realm. I already barely watch basketball because of how shitty we are, but if we are in for 4 more years of Shaka I'll just leave it be and move on.

The rumor we are basing our arguments around is the idea that if we find Shaka a soft landing we will make a move this off-season. That soft-landing isn't going to soften our blow by much more than $1M a year. So if indeed CDC is weighing Shaka's tenure based on his new job lowering the payout then we are taking about a $3M difference that supposedly keeps us from changing coaches this year. So the calculation comes down to what are the benefits of keeping Shaka another year vs. bringing in a new coach. An increase in attendance alone could cover a fair piece of that difference if the new coach is immediately successful. Enthusiasm for a new coach, especially one that is successful, greases the wheels for donations down the road. It is impossible to put a dollar figure on it, but that too certainly pays for the buy out difference and it's the big donor enthusiasm that likely carries the biggest influence.

I don't think CDC retains Shaka for the full term of his contract. It comes down to how confident CDC is in his list of replacements and his ability to seal the deal. If CDC thinks he will hire a home run and can make the deal, then I have little doubt he will make the move now regardless of whether Shaka finds a soft landing, because the move will ultimately pay for itself. If he can't be certain of a deal or he thinks the next guy is going to need a long ramp up to success, then perhaps he waits and sees if Shaka turns it around. But if he doesn't pull the trigger this year, then he has to be prepared to keep him beyond next year as well, because the optics will suck if he fires him after a season of decent improvement.

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 18960

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, rickyspub said:

Wait, so you are saying we are stuck with Shaka for 4 more years no matter what? I am not arguing in that realm. I already barely watch basketball because of how shitty we are, but if we are in for 4 more years of Shaka I'll just leave it be and move on.

The rumor we are basing our arguments around is the idea that if we find Shaka a soft landing we will make a move this off-season. That soft-landing isn't going to soften our blow by much more than $1M a year. So if indeed CDC is weighing Shaka's tenure based on his new job lowering the payout then we are taking about a $3M difference that supposedly keeps us from changing coaches this year. So the calculation comes down to what are the benefits of keeping Shaka another year vs. bringing in a new coach. An increase in attendance alone could cover a fair piece of that difference if the new coach is immediately successful. Enthusiasm for a new coach, especially one that is successful, greases the wheels for donations down the road. It is impossible to put a dollar figure on it, but that too certainly pays for the buy out difference and it's the big donor enthusiasm that likely carries the biggest influence.

I don't think CDC retains Shaka for the full term of his contract. It comes down to how confident CDC is in his list of replacements and his ability to seal the deal. If CDC thinks he will hire a home run and can make the deal, then I have little doubt he will make the move now regardless of whether Shaka finds a soft landing, because the move will ultimately pay for itself. If he can't be certain of a deal or he thinks the next guy is going to need a long ramp up to success, then perhaps he waits and sees if Shaka turns it around. But if he doesn't pull the trigger this year, then he has to be prepared to keep him beyond next year as well, because the optics will suck if he fires him after a season of decent improvement.

I didn’t read all of this but no, I never said anything of the sort. 

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Js1

Js1 82350

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, rickyspub said:

I don't think CDC retains Shaka for the full term of his contract. It comes down to how confident CDC is in his list of replacements and his ability to seal the deal. If CDC thinks he will hire a home run and can make the deal, then I have little doubt he will make the move now regardless of whether Shaka finds a soft landing, because the move will ultimately pay for itself. 

He's not going to fire Shaka on his "belief" to land a home-run hire.  He will do it if and only if he has that hire lined up and ready to sign on the dotted line once it's official. 

Because Lord help him if he fires Shaka and we end up with the 5th-6th-7th choice on the list because the rest played us for suckers.

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rickyspub

rickyspub 801

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Js1 said:

He's not going to fire Shaka on his "belief" to land a home-run hire.  He will do it if and only if he has that hire lined up and ready to sign on the dotted line once it's official. 

Because Lord help him if he fires Shaka and we end up with the 5th-6th-7th choice on the list because the rest played us for suckers.

Reading comprehension fail. I am talking about CDC's 'beliefs' about the quality of his Shaka replacement. If the guys he knows he can sign don't give him confidence that they will be worth all the buyouts, then he might very well sit it out and see what the landscape is like in a couple of years without being so upside down. For instance, let's say Buzz Williams is the only guy who is listening to us and CDC has him at #5 or 6 on his list and has concerns that he will out-perform Shaka. Does he fire Shaka now or let Buzz go to aggy? I think Beard is likely our top target and he going to get a huge raise this year from someone. If he has Beard all but signed on the dotted line, is CDC really going to pass on the deal just because Shaka didn't get hired by Wake Forest?

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Burt Macklin

Burt Macklin 18960

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, rickyspub said:

Reading comprehension fail. I am talking about CDC's 'beliefs' about the quality of his Shaka replacement. If the guys he knows he can sign don't give him confidence that they will be worth all the buyouts, then he might very well sit it out and see what the landscape is like in a couple of years without being so upside down. For instance, let's say Buzz Williams is the only guy who is listening to us and CDC has him at #5 or 6 on his list and has concerns that he will out-perform Shaka. Does he fire Shaka now or let Buzz go to aggy? I think Beard is likely our top target and he going to get a huge raise this year from someone. If he has Beard all but signed on the dotted line, is CDC really going to pass on the deal just because Shaka didn't get hired by Wake Forest?

So you think we’ll pay a $13 million buyout to Shaka (over 4 years), plus buyout Shaka’a Assistants, pay a $6 million buyout to Beard immediately, pay his assistants, and pay Beard a salary that’s enough to get him to leave Lubbock (like near $5 mil per year)? That’s like $16 million in one year on coaching, when our normal expenditure is 4 million per year, plus an average of $9 mil per year for the next three years after that. Basketball barely makes a profit most years, so CDC would be guaranteeing it’s solidly in the red for the next four years at a minimum.   

And you still can’t see how this is not just a difference of $3 million? 

Edited by Burt Macklin
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