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Are Republicans Evil?

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6 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

No

You would be working 80 hours a week or more for wages that would barely keep you alive without unions.  

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I look at the GOP in its current state like I look at the Catholic Church.  The institution itself and some of its acolytes are evil but by and large the followers are just misguided.  

Edited by Continental Op

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1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Yes. Whereas the private sector is infallible, and has done nothing but serve the interests of the public.....cough cough the healthcare insurers, Worldcom, Enron, Bear Stearns, AIG, Citibank, Wells Fargo, etc. etc. What a load of tripe.

"Bureaucrats" also brought you public water and sewer systems that are (by and large) the envy of the world.  So much so that when a Flint happens, it's a huge story.  They've brought you an interstate highway system.  They managed to build a dominant military, cooperatively with private industry, in a short period of time to help win WWII.  They set up a public school system that (until recently) was the envy of much of the world (not all of it, but much of it).  Etc. etc.

It's so fucking lazy to go "government bad, private industry good." But you regurgitate that in EXACTLY the form it was fed to you.  Neither one is the problem or the solution.  Each of them - so long as it is well-regulated by people who are paying fucking attention - can be an effective and efficient actor.  Government and private legal action regulate the private sector.  And we the people regulate the government.  It would help if we paid fucking attention.

And YES, the single-payer system can be compatible with private insurance supplementation.  In fact, that may be the optimum approach.  But nope, not here.  Can't have any balance or rational thought.  Private insurance funded healthcare is the ONLY way to go, because FREEDOM AND EAGLES AND AMERICA (and proven bad results, at by far the highest costs in the world). 

Yeah, you jumped off a cliff here. You’ve posted this same shit a million times with other conservative types. Simply doesn’t hit the mark with me. I’m against the fuck it up and throw more money at it approach. That’s called Aggie football. 

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4 minutes ago, Revolution512 said:

I’m against the fuck it up and throw more money at it approach.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/cost-of-healthcare-countries-ranked-2019-3

Below is a list of the countries that spent more than $3,000 on healthcare per capita in 2017:

1. United States - $10,209

 

17. United Kingdom - $4,246

18. Finland - $4,173

19. New Zealand - $3,683

20. Italy - $3,542

21. Spain - $3,371

 

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20 minutes ago, Revolution512 said:

I’m against the fuck it up and throw more money at it approach. 

Other than do nothing when Republicans have controlled both houses and the WH multiple times, "fuck it up" is the only other action the GOP has taken regarding health care reform.

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27 minutes ago, Revolution512 said:

 I’m against the fuck it up and throw more money at it approach. 

 

21 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Below is a list of the countries that spent more than $3,000 on healthcare per capita in 2017:

1. United States - $10,209

 

17. United Kingdom - $4,246

18. Finland - $4,173

19. New Zealand - $3,683

20. Italy - $3,542

21. Spain - $3,371

 

Again, posted for direct contrast.

WW ALREADY THROW THE MOST MONEY AT IT.  BY A FACTOR OF OVER 2:1.

And all of the horror stories about not being able to get life-saving procedures approved and the like?  We get all of those....under our current, "the private sector does everything better" system.

I've posted the same shit a million times becuase it's such a fucking obvious truth that it amazes me that people don't get it, so I figure maybe THIS time, they'll get it.  If you are against "throwing money" at a problem, then you MUST hate our current system with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns.  Right?

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12 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Other than do nothing when Republicans have controlled both houses and the WH multiple times, "fuck it up" is the only other action the GOP has taken regarding health care reform.

Which I’ve admitted in this very thread

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17 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

And that's why your wages haven't budged in 40 years.

Yeah, I was making 12 just 3 years ago, do you think I just sat around and not fight for my own wage?

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2 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Yeah, I was making 12 just 3 years ago, do you think I just sat around and not fight for my own wage?

You'd have more power if you fought for it collectively.

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6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You'd have more power if you fought for it collectively.

Why, am I too weak on my own? If the supply is is in short demand, than the price goes up. Not to many welders out there with field experience.

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Just now, workswithseed said:

Why, am I too weak on my own? If the supply is is in short demand, than the price goes up. Not to many welders out there with field experience.

Yes, you are weaker on your own. You would be better off collectively bargaining for the price of your labor.

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24 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

Again, posted for direct contrast.

WW ALREADY THROW THE MOST MONEY AT IT.  BY A FACTOR OF OVER 2:1.

And all of the horror stories about not being able to get life-saving procedures approved and the like?  We get all of those....under our current, "the private sector does everything better" system.

I've posted the same shit a million times becuase it's such a fucking obvious truth that it amazes me that people don't get it, so I figure maybe THIS time, they'll get it.  If you are against "throwing money" at a problem, then you MUST hate our current system with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns.  Right?

You’re kind of all over the place here....like a redneck in a Prius. But yes.

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12 hours ago, RPM said:

Barry Goldwater would dickslap every Republican in office today because they fucking deserve it. 

If he were alive today to see that the evangelicals did what he likely feared they would do, oh boy would he be apoplectic. He called this more than a half century ago and here we are dealing with what they have allowed to happen.

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......soooo....your preferred approach to health care reform...is....???

Duh. What it always is. “Eliminate fraud, waste, and abuse.” Which will take off a few bucks of that per capita cost.

Or maybe double down on “the private sector” and religious faith that THIS TIME, they’ll get it right.

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1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:


Duh. What it always is. “Eliminate fraud, waste, and abuse.” Which will take off a few bucks of that per capita cost.

Or maybe double down on “the private sector” and religious faith that THIS TIME, they’ll get it right.

fail charlie brown GIF

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They were an implicitly racist party during Reagan/Bush/Dubya. They are an explicitly racist party now under Trump. They love him because he says outwardly what they all believe inside about people of color. 

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3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


Duh. What it always is. “Eliminate fraud, waste, and abuse.” Which will take off a few bucks of that per capita cost.

Or maybe double down on “the private sector” and religious faith that THIS TIME, they’ll get it right.

I don't like the status quo.

I don't like any specific plan to change the status quo. Or if I did, I don't now.

 

* repeat for over a quarter century*

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10 hours ago, Incredulity said:

Well, I guess the sky is as pink as your My Little Pony lunchbox.

 

Nov 7th 2014-Nov 8th 2016= 758.41 increase 4.35%

Jan 2nd 2015 - Jan 3 2017= 2057.77 increase 11.5%

Jan 20th 2015- Jan 20th 2017= 2312.02 increase 13.2%

 

Nov 8th 2016- Nov 8th 2018 = 7858.98 increase 42.8%

Jan 3rd 2017- Jan 2nd 2019= 3482.48 increase 17.5%

Jan 20th 2017-Jan 22nd 2019= 4577.23 increase 23.0%

 

https://fortune.com/2019/06/03/stock-market-trump-obama-sp-500/

 

So much for having the “best” stock market returns.

During his first two years in office, Donald Trump regularly pointed to the stock market as proof of his leadership’s effectiveness. Experts may have shaken their heads, saying that stock values aren’t an accurate measure of the country’s economic performance. But they are popular with voters, who check their 401(k) investments, and, thus, with politicians. Particularly since “presidents can have a major impact on the financial markets in the short run,” said David Kass, professor of finance at the University of Maryland.

And getting short-term response in stocks is much easier than long-term fundamental economic gains that can take years to bear fruit. If there’s an election coming up, juicing the markets is something both major parties like to do.

 

When it comes to talking himself up, Trump in particular has compared himself to Barack Obama. So, how do the two presidents measure up in terms of growth in major indexes, measured between their inauguration and May 31 of their third year in office?

The short answer is that Trump has quite a way to go. Under Obama, the S&P 500 grew by 56.4%. The Dow Jones Industrials Average was up 50.6% and the Nasdaq, 92.9%.

MW-HN812_SP500O_20190721170202_NS.png?uu

Edited by Gil Bang

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Trumpkins don't understand that historians will call the expansion that is currently still going on the Obama economy.

Donald Trump isn't going to get credit for anything.

But he will get the blame if a recession starts while he is president.

Edited by David Dennison

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6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Trumpkins don't understand that historians will call the expansion that is currently still going on the Obama economy.

Donald Trump isn't going to get credit for anything.

But he will get the blame if a recession starts while he is president.

 

10 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

 

https://fortune.com/2019/06/03/stock-market-trump-obama-sp-500/

 

So much for having the “best” stock market returns.

During his first two years in office, Donald Trump regularly pointed to the stock market as proof of his leadership’s effectiveness. Experts may have shaken their heads, saying that stock values aren’t an accurate measure of the country’s economic performance. But they are popular with voters, who check their 401(k) investments, and, thus, with politicians. Particularly since “presidents can have a major impact on the financial markets in the short run,” said David Kass, professor of finance at the University of Maryland.

And getting short-term response in stocks is much easier than long-term fundamental economic gains that can take years to bear fruit. If there’s an election coming up, juicing the markets is something both major parties like to do.

 

When it comes to talking himself up, Trump in particular has compared himself to Barack Obama. So, how do the two presidents measure up in terms of growth in major indexes, measured between their inauguration and May 31 of their third year in office?

The short answer is that Trump has quite a way to go. Under Obama, the S&P 500 grew by 56.4%. The Dow Jones Industrials Average was up 50.6% and the Nasdaq, 92.9%.

MW-HN812_SP500O_20190721170202_NS.png?uu

Which isn’t at all what you said.

You said Obama’s last 2 vs. Trump’s first 2.

 

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"Shocking as that may seem – and your level of shock may vary widely depending on how closely you’ve been tracking the actions both center stage and behind the scenes of the rapidly toxifying Grand Ole Party – the real problem with this revelation is that we cannot actually do much about this threat in the classic manner.

The threat from the right is the first national-level “insider threat” the United States has faced since the Civil War. It is insidious, asymmetric, powerful – and existential.

How did I come to this conclusion? Through empirical evidence and specialised experience, using the same approach as when I helped draft a document seen by the most powerful men and women in the country."

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The majority of the American public, including a large percentage on this board, will follow their team off a cliff. They fundamentally disagree with the opposite side on core issues, and most arguments/debates quickly devolve into rehashing historical viewpoints, stereotypes, and vomiting the current days talking points. That’s the strength and inherent weakness of joining a team. You’re either for or against. There is winning and losing. There is no solving the issue. That is why this board is full of the same people arguing the same arguments year after year. People don’t want to understand the issue, the people behind the issue, how it affects them positively or negatively. They want to be right. And if they are right, the other team must be wrong 

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1 hour ago, workswithseed said:

Why, am I too weak on my own? If the supply is is in short demand, than the price goes up. Not to many welders out there with field experience.

Interesting why that is, the shortage of skilled field welders.  Or highly skilled painters, master contractors, plumbers etc.  There are shortages in a lot of those fields, because over the years in places without unions they haven’t paid enough to attract young American workers. Builders got addicted to cheap immigrant labor and high profit margins.  A painter up in the upper Midwest making $25hr isn’t going to leave and move to Texas for the same $15/hr job.  Unions have fucked up plenty as many people are so quick to point out, but they’ve also done a lot of good in the bigger scheme of things.  People tend to blame unions for the auto industry problems, but that street runs two ways.  Management was too interested in short term gains and gave away pensions and other can kicking concessions to cover their asses rather than making smart long term decisions.  So there is fault on both sides.  

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2 hours ago, Revolution512 said:

Yeah, you jumped off a cliff here. You’ve posted this same shit a million times with other conservative types. Simply doesn’t hit the mark with me. I’m against the fuck it up and throw more money at it approach. That’s called Aggie football. 

🤔

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5 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

The majority of the American public, including a large percentage on this board, will follow their team off a cliff. They fundamentally disagree with the opposite side on core issues, and most arguments/debates quickly devolve into rehashing historical viewpoints, stereotypes, and vomiting the current days talking points. That’s the strength and inherent weakness of joining a team. You’re either for or against. There is winning and losing. There is no solving the issue. That is why this board is full of the same people arguing the same arguments year after year. People don’t want to understand the issue, the people behind the issue, how it affects them positively or negatively. They want to be right. And if they are right, the other team must be wrong 

There are a great many people that used to vote republican on this board.  They bitch about the current regime precisely because they wouldn’t follow the party off the cliff. 

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1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

Yes, you are weaker on your own. You would be better off collectively bargaining for the price of your labor.

I think I'm fine, I worked to get where I am and happy with my work

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19 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

The majority of the American public, including a large percentage on this board, will follow their team off a cliff. They fundamentally disagree with the opposite side on core issues, and most arguments/debates quickly devolve into rehashing historical viewpoints, stereotypes, and vomiting the current days talking points. That’s the strength and inherent weakness of joining a team. You’re either for or against. There is winning and losing. There is no solving the issue. That is why this board is full of the same people arguing the same arguments year after year. People don’t want to understand the issue, the people behind the issue, how it affects them positively or negatively. They want to be right. And if they are right, the other team must be wrong 

The difference is we all used to have a collective sense of some shared values.  We all pretty much valued human/civil rights and the dignity of others.  Regardless of party, we all saw an aspect of patriotism in dissent.  We agreed, despite our differences, that America should be a place where every kid should get a fair shot at the American dream.  We acknowledged a shared reality where objective truth and facts exist and those that betray them should be rejected.  We saw value in science and the arts.  We all believed democracy was worth defending and Nazis were bad. 

Those days are over. 

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I think I'm fine, I worked to get where I am and happy with my work


That’s really great and I’m happy for you and this sentence is meant genuinely. I too have both suffered and prospered at the whims of my own choices (well I don’t know about if you’ve suffered, just filling it out a bit to match my own experience). I’ve observed (not from you) that attitude get twisted from pride in one’s own accomplishments to disdain at the perceived shortcomings of others. “I’ve accomplished x, why can’t they?” It seems a pretty well trod path for decent people to begin taking indecent attitudes towards people they don’t know or understand.

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12 hours ago, TexArcher said:

GHWB was a good and decent man, and a patriot.  W was underqualified for the job, but he was also a good and decent man, and a patriot.

I've disagreed with plenty of presidents on policy, but this is the first time I've felt that the POTUS falls short of the most basic definitions of being a decent man, or that he doesn't love this country.

Donald Trump is a horrible person and the only reason he cares about the presidency is because he can profit from it.  He's an evil con man.

The only way someone supports an evil con man is if s/he is also evil or a fool, or both.  There are no other options.

I don’t support him. Didn’t vote for him and won’t. He’s a national embarrassment. And there is no way it’s made me reconsider being R. This thread is a joke. A reincarnation of “what do I tell my son?”  

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2 hours ago, workswithseed said:

Not to many welders out there with field experience.

There are literally 1000's of them. And it's too.

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42 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

There are a great many people that used to vote republican on this board.  They bitch about the current regime precisely because they wouldn’t follow the party off the cliff. 

 

Notably, Brisket and GOLL.  

Fuck, I'm old enough to remember GOLL talking about running for office as a Republican. 

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2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

And that's why your wages haven't budged in 40 years.

Lulz. I’d be willing to bet he’s not a longshoreman. 

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13 hours ago, TexArcher said:

GHWB was a good and decent man, and a patriot.  W was underqualified for the job, but he was also a good and decent man, and a patriot.

I've disagreed with plenty of presidents on policy, but this is the first time I've felt that the POTUS falls short of the most basic definitions of being a decent man, or that he doesn't love this country.

Donald Trump is a horrible person and the only reason he cares about the presidency is because he can profit from it.  He's an evil con man.

The only way someone supports an evil con man is if s/he is also evil or a fool, or both.  There are no other options.

Omar writes letters begging for leniency for people convicted of joining ISIS and you think Trump doesn't love this country?

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2 hours ago, Bruh Man said:

They were an implicitly racist party during Reagan/Bush/Dubya. They are an explicitly racist party now under Trump. They love him because he says outwardly what they all believe inside about people of color. 

If Trump was such a racist then why did he not include Elijah Cummings, Sheila Jackson Lee, Maxine Waters, Al Greene, Hank Johnson, Frederica Wilson, or any of the other remaining 112 minority members of the House (I subtracted the four idiots he did single out.) while he was ranting?  Maybe because it's not the color of their skin that has made him form his opinion of them but instead the shit they spew out of their mouths?  Also your last sentence makes you much more of a bigot than a Trump supporter is.

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11 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

Omar writes letters begging for leniency for people convicted of joining ISIS and you think Trump doesn't love this country?

She wrote one letter, on behalf of one of her constituents.  I’m not defending that instance but you don’t help your cause by continually parroting lies you get from your brain rotting sources.

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1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

The majority of the American public, including a large percentage on this board, will follow their team off a cliff. They fundamentally disagree with the opposite side on core issues, and most arguments/debates quickly devolve into rehashing historical viewpoints, stereotypes, and vomiting the current days talking points. That’s the strength and inherent weakness of joining a team. You’re either for or against. There is winning and losing. There is no solving the issue. That is why this board is full of the same people arguing the same arguments year after year. People don’t want to understand the issue, the people behind the issue, how it affects them positively or negatively. They want to be right. And if they are right, the other team must be wrong 

I am neither a Trumpkin (Lol at there being a Republican Party anymore or ever again) nor a Democrat. I am team get this fucking racist, fascist, narcissistic un-American asshole out of the White House ASAP. 

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14 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

If Trump was such a racist then why did he not include Elijah Cummings, Sheila Jackson Lee, Maxine Waters, Al Greene, Hank Johnson, Frederica Wilson, or any of the other remaining 112 minority members of the House (I subtracted the four idiots he did single out.) while he was ranting?  Maybe because it's not the color of their skin that has made him form his opinion of them but instead the shit they spew out of their mouths?  Also your last sentence makes you much more of a bigot than a Trump supporter is.

No, he's a racist. So are you.

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18 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

If Trump was such a racist then why did he not include Elijah Cummings, Sheila Jackson Lee, Maxine Waters, Al Greene, Hank Johnson, Frederica Wilson, or any of the other remaining 112 minority members of the House (I subtracted the four idiots he did single out.) while he was ranting?  Maybe because it's not the color of their skin that has made him form his opinion of them but instead the shit they spew out of their mouths?  Also your last sentence makes you much more of a bigot than a Trump supporter is.

Why

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45 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

Omar writes letters begging for leniency for people convicted of joining ISIS and you think Trump doesn't love this country?

I won't defend Omar on that one, but do you understand that it's possible for more than one person to not love this country at the same time?

You Republicans with your oh-yeah-well-what-about-x talking points sound like a really shitty defense attorney: "Your Honor, my client couldn't possibly have committed this murder because Charles Manson."

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40 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

If Trump was such a racist then why did he not include Elijah Cummings, Sheila Jackson Lee, Maxine Waters, Al Greene, Hank Johnson, Frederica Wilson, or any of the other remaining 112 minority members of the House

Because he's a coward and he thought he'd have an easier fight with the rookie women of color.

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Because he's a coward and he thought he'd have an easier fight with the rookie women of color.

This. He’s the lowest level of racist: the gutless pussy racist.

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