Jump to content
GabrielsHorn

FBI vs. NCAA Coaches

Recommended Posts

Who is bitching about the rules? It’s obvious that some here just want KU fans to be butthurt. You should head to the Ku message boards if you want to see that. It’s pretty obvious to me that the ones here see what is going on and are just presenting prospective defenses to the NOA. No one is saying “ but but but but...”.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (WDRB) -- A settlement agreement has been reached in the lawsuit filed against the NCAA by Luke Hancock and four players from the 2013 University of Louisville basketball team, but it will not result in the restoration of the school's vacated national championship, sources said Monday.

The title and banner were stripped from U of L as part of penalties from the NCAA over stripper parties, escorts and sex acts for players and recruits that occurred from 2010 to 2014. The lawsuit demanded the NCAA restore that title, and issue a declaration that the players, "did not engage in striptease dances, prostitution and tipping of strippers as implied."

The settlement restores Hancock's status as the Most Outstanding Player from that Final Four in Atlanta. Hancock scored 42 points in two games as the Cardinals defeated Wichita State and Michigan.

 

Besides Hancock, the other players involved in the lawsuit were Gorgui Dieng, Stephan Van Treese, Tim Henderson and Michael Marra. All of their playing records and statistics have also been reinstated.

The players said they filed the suit in an attempt to "clear names" and restore the team's national title, which was removed from program by the NCAA Committee on Infractions in July 2017. Louisville became the first Division I team in modern history to vacate a national title. The Cardinals were placed on four years of NCAA probation.

The Cardinals also vacated 123 victories, the result from one of several scandals that later led to the removal of U of L coach Rick Pitino and athletic director Tom Jurich.

Morgan & Morgan filed the lawsuit in Jefferson Circuit Court on behalf of the players in July 2018. The suit sought a specific declaration from the NCAA saying the players "did not engage in striptease dances, prostitution and tipping of strippers as implied."

Additionally, Hancock requested that an asterisk next to his name as "Most Outstanding Player" be removed. He made eight of 10 three-point shots against Wichita State and Michigan, leading the Cardinals in scoring in the 82-76 victory over the Wolverines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That shit doesn't matter.  They know they won, and they know they cheated to do it.

 

Sanctions and penalties need to be fucking real.  Shut down coaches and shut down programs.

Clean it up, or keep fucking around...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think its pretty clear that the NCAA is going to keep fucking around.  Did you see the ESPN article on the CA legislation?  The guy from the NCAA said "we just wish the regulators would give us time to review and adapt our policies."  Bitch.. you just had a commission headed by Condi that literally put out a statement saying "everyone else is the problem, we're staying the same".  The NCAA has been actively fighting this problem for over 20 years and has NEVER acted to clean it up.  Now that there is regulatory pressure you wish people would give you time?  The NCAA is a dying entity and 2023 can't come soon enough.  If Florida and North Carolina come out and make changes, which apparently they are working on legislation, then the NCAA will be dead with those deals.  Can't wait.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dawkins gets 1 year in prison. So if you’re counting, coaches and players get their entire careers ruined. The longest sentence for the people at the heart of the actual criminal activity get a year or less in prison. Jarret jack gets 3 years for $300. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/26/2019 at 10:20 AM, El Diablo said:

The history of the NCAA and the crafting of the amateur/student-athlete legal position is an interesting one. The NCAA IS the member institutions after all. It's a tangled mess.

I was trying to think of a way to continue with your traffic analogy but couldn't. It's kind of like that but not really because who are the cops in that scenario and we all know that the cars that are speeding the most over the speed limit are the ones making the most profit as a result. Big mess.

The analogy isn't perfect, clearly.  On the morality front, I personally think the most immoral thing we do is force elite high school players to go to college by having rules against them turning pro in exactly two sports...coincidentally the two sports that make ass-piles of cash for the NCAA and ADs nationwide.  If you're a stud in hockey or baseball or downhill skiing, you can get paid right away.  And not only do we artificially limit their ability to make money, we systemically funnel them to a college campus for 7 months so Duke fans can buy #1 jerseys while #1 is "paid" (over the table) the exact same amount as a women's rower.

It's gawd-dammed unAmerican.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, VolenteHawk said:

The analogy isn't perfect, clearly.  On the morality front, I personally think the most immoral thing we do is force elite high school players to go to college by having rules against them turning pro in exactly two sports...coincidentally the two sports that make ass-piles of cash for the NCAA and ADs nationwide.  If you're a stud in hockey or baseball or downhill skiing, you can get paid right away.  And not only do we artificially limit their ability to make money, we systemically funnel them to a college campus for 7 months so Duke fans can buy #1 jerseys while #1 is "paid" (over the table) the exact same amount as a women's rower.

It's gawd-dammed unAmerican.

 

Yep. And it all goes back to what I said about the crafting of the term "student athlete". A whole lot of money and legal expertise was spent on that by the NCAA and by extension on behalf of the member institutions.

I like the IDEA of amateur sports, I just don't know if it's a viable concept that is based on reality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amateur sports are very viable for amateurs with little to no aspiration to be professionals. The feeder process is the problem. Let everyone declare for the draft. Who cares. If you accept a scholarship then it should have some sort of time commitment longer than a year. The people who want to see top talent can watch the nba. People who want to cheer on their school can watch college ball. 

Letting athletes find their monetary value will allow the market to get to equilibrium very quickly. A blue blood basketball school isn’t going to pay a kid more than what the nba will. If they do then maybe the ncaa will steal talent from the nba making it an actual competitor of the league. If that were to happen then the tv dollars would follow and no one would be complaining. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Jhawk said:

Amateur sports are very viable for amateurs with little to no aspiration to be professionals. The feeder process is the problem. Let everyone declare for the draft. Who cares. If you accept a scholarship then it should have some sort of time commitment longer than a year. The people who want to see top talent can watch the nba. People who want to cheer on their school can watch college ball. 

Letting athletes find their monetary value will allow the market to get to equilibrium very quickly. A blue blood basketball school isn’t going to pay a kid more than what the nba will. If they do then maybe the ncaa will steal talent from the nba making it an actual competitor of the league. If that were to happen then the tv dollars would follow and no one would be complaining. 

That concept doesn't work in all sports. Basketball players are physically mature enough to go to the NBA out of high school. Let them get treated like commodities in the NBA. Some will become millionaires and some will be without education and without pro sports. But in football, kids aren't ready for the NFL. There needs to be a minor league system that will cost the NFL money.

In the end, I think the only viable system is a minor league route and a college route. The best athletes who don't care about college need to be in the minors and the other athletes who do care about college need to go the college route. It will kill college athletics as it will become more like intramural than what we see today. And I'll be sad because I love college sports and pay little attention to the pros. But, I guess I'll get over it and find new hobbies. And kids in general will stop playing school and do what they really want.

But stop blaming the system. Kansas and Alabama and UNLV and LSU and Kentucky have made major contributions towards the fall of the system. They could have kept recruiting clean and instead chose to hand out lots of money. You need to blame those schools that have blurred the lines of the student athlete rather than blaming it all on NCAA greed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Bevo said:

There needs to be a minor league system that will cost the NFL money.

That shoots your entire argument down. NFL is NEVER going to pay for something they get free. Damn they won’t even hire full time refs for their multi-billion $ enterprise. 

If college football dies tomorrow then you have a 10% chance of this working. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Shaddie said:

That shoots your entire argument down. NFL is NEVER going to pay for something they get free. Damn they won’t even hire full time refs for their multi-billion $ enterprise. 

If college football dies tomorrow then you have a 10% chance of this working. 

No doubt, that is an impediment. But at some point, the NFL isn't going to have a choice. And if I can learn how to surf, maybe I won't care.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Jhawk said:

Letting athletes find their monetary value will allow the market to get to equilibrium very quickly. A blue blood basketball school isn’t going to pay a kid more than what the nba will.

Why not?  They pay their coaches more than many NBA teams do.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Bevo said:

There needs to be a minor league system that will cost the NFL money.

Kate Beckinsale also needs to come over and give me a blow job.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

huh. who coulda possibly have predicted this when they were writing up the contract for the mothafuckin' D O double G

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/24/2019 at 4:40 PM, Jhawk said:

KU is just a school that got popped for the same Snoop Dog concert that all the major schools have hosted. The shitty thing for the ncaa is very little of Snoop Dog's money gun "shot" any of the Board of Directors and directly implicated KU. It’s a courageous position to celebrate sluts and pole dancing, which is why the NCAA doesn’t get to be represented in an appeal scenario. That’s why KU is going to get a lot out of hiring Snoop Dog to associate us with payola, Adidas gangster bagmen and strippers. I fully expect another Crips tribute concert at every home game. It’ll be the appeal that having Bill Self wearing money symbols and Adidas logos that proves that we are culturally aware.

Which is basically what one of my earlier posts was about. The implications of some of the pole dancing ho's  is degrading to women made by the NCAA are far beyond what the ncaa is willing to defend long term. Couple that with KU staunchly defending Snoop Dog aiming a money gun at privileged white children to show how racially sorry we are and the lack of pole dancer's full frontal nudity is tough to defend. Especially if KU goes ahead with plans to turn every game into a South Central tribute concert featuring acrobatic dancers will save us from the ncaa the prosecutor, judge, jury, and executioner. 

Man, @Jhawk's posts defending Kansas are getting stranger and stranger. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 2/14/2019 at 11:44 AM, Beau Vine said:

Been wondering about this... If a fan of Kansas basketball gives a player money and gets busted, KU gets penalized and that booster gets disassociated.  Yet if Adidas is paying KU players, is the NCAA going to force KU to disassociate with Adidas?  Because how is that any different?

 

Bump.

Quote

The University of Kansas is disputing all allegations of wrongdoing by its men's basketball program that have been levied by the NCAA, the school said in its reply to the NCAA on Thursday.

The NCAA served Kansas with a notice of allegations in September stemming from the college basketball bribery scandal that led to the criminal prosecution of several former Adidas employees and consultants. The notice included five Level I violations, the most serious under NCAA rules.

Among the most serious charges were lack of institutional control by the school and head coach responsibility violations by Jayhawks coach Bill Self. The football program was cited for Level II violations.

In its response issued Thursday, Kansas stated: "In this case, stemming from federal criminal trials in 2018, there are several facts that are in dispute; there are assumptions made; and, perhaps most importantly, there are unprecedented and novel theories put forward that, if found to have merit by the Panel, would dramatically alter the collegiate sports landscape in ways not contemplated by the Membership.

The Jayhawks' statement goes on to say, "The University formally challenges each of the men's basketball related allegations in the Amended Notice of Allegations ("ANOA") as neither NCAA legislation nor the facts support the enforcement staff's allegations."

Specifically, the university and Self dispute that Adidas or its employees were acting as boosters for the program.

Adidas and its employees were at the center of a federal investigation into bribes and other corruption in college basketball over the past two years. The Jayhawks are the company's flagship program and signed a 14-year, $196 million apparel and sponsorship extension in April.

"Of particular concern to the institution, is the NCAA's assertion that Adidas, and Adidas employees and associates, were representatives of the University's athletics interests (as defined by NCAA legislation) during the period of the alleged violations and therefore acting on the University's behalf when they engaged in alleged violations of NCAA bylaws," the university statement said. "The evidence however, based mainly on trial testimony, fails utterly to support a conclusion that Adidas or any Adidas employees acted as representatives of the University during the period in question. Individuals formally associated with Adidas acted in their own interests when they gave money to the family and guardians of student-athletes.

"In fact, sworn testimony makes clear that these former Adidas associates went to great lengths to conceal their activities from Kansas and its basketball staff. The University did not know and, as the evidence reveals, could not have reasonably known, about the conduct of these persons formerly affiliated with Adidas."

The NCAA enforcement staff has 60 days to reply to Kansas' response, and then a hearing before the NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions would potentially be scheduled as early as six to eight weeks later.

There's also a possibility the case will be resolved through NCAA's independent accountability resolution process, which the governing body created last year to handle high-profile cases involving potentially serious infractions. Independent investigators, advocates and decision-makers with no direct ties to NCAA member schools further investigate the case, if necessary, and then adjudicate a ruling. Under those procedures, there is no appeal to the independent resolution panel's ruling.

Memphis was informed Wednesday that it would be the first school to go through the independent accountability resolution process. The case is related to the Tigers' recruitment of former basketball star James Wiseman.

In its statement Thursday, Kansas called the NCAA enforcement staff's position "a never before alleged theory."

"Stated otherwise, according to the enforcement staff, every corporate sponsor and most, if not all, individuals associated with the sponsor are boosters of every institution with which the sponsor does business," the statement said. "This theory, if adopted by the Panel, would have far reaching ramifications throughout the Membership given the universal use of corporate sponsorships throughout Division I athletics. Moreover, as is explained in the Response, under the terms of NCAA legislation, innumerable current and former student-athletes would be ineligible due to their pre-enrollment participation in non-scholastic events and on non-scholastic teams that were provided financial support by Nike, Under Armour, Adidas, and others."

After the No. 1 Jayhawks' 75-66 victory over TCU on Wednesday night, Self told reporters the NCAA allegations haven't been a distraction.

"To be candid with you, I haven't had much to do with it,'' Self said after Kansas clinched a share of the Big 12 regular-season title with the win. "I haven't let that bog me down as a distraction. It certainly won't moving forward. That was something that had to happen from a mandatory standpoint, but it is no more than what it was three or four months ago. It's the next play.''

In September, former Adidas consultant T.J. Gassnola was sentenced to probation and fined for his role in pay-for-play schemes to steer recruits to Kansas and other Adidas-sponsored programs.

An attorney for former Adidas executive James Gatto told a jury during closing arguments at an October 2018 trial that his client approved a $20,000 payment to current Kansas player Silvio De Sousa's guardian only after Self and Jayhawks assistant Kurtis Townsend requested the payment through Gassnola.

Gatto, former Adidas consultant Merl Code and aspiring business manager Christian Dawkins were found guilty on felony charges of wire fraud and conspiracy to commit wire fraud for their roles in the pay-for-play schemes.

Gatto was accused of working with Gassnola to facilitate $90,000 from Adidas to former Jayhawks recruit Billy Preston's mother and agreeing to pay $20,000 to Fenny Falmagne, De Sousa's guardian, to help him "get out from under" a pay-for-play scheme to attend Maryland, which is sponsored by Under Armour.

The NCAA also included allegations that Gassnola provided $15,000 to an unidentified individual to give to the mother of recruit Deandre Ayton, who signed with Arizona, and that Gassnola "communicated in a text message to Self that he had let Self down" when Ayton signed with the Wildcats.

The NCAA alleges that Gassnola provided an impermissible benefit to another recruit, whose name was redacted in the notice of allegations, "in the form of an indeterminate amount of cash through a wire transfer." Former Adidas consultant Dan Cutler is accused of having impermissible contact with a recruit and promising that he and Adidas would ensure that the recruit's "parents could attend his games by providing financial assistance for their travel expenses."

The university contends that Self wasn't aware of the alleged violations and promoted an atmosphere of compliance and fully monitored his staff.

"As is laid out in great detail in the Response, there is no reasonable conclusion that members of the University, including the men's basketball staff, knew or should have known about any violations of NCAA rules," the statement said. "Head Coach Bill Self had no knowledge of any NCAA rules violations or illicit conduct exhibited by Adidas, its employees or its consultants. In addition, as the University noted in September 2019, voluminous evidence demonstrates uncontestably that Coach Self did, in fact, promote an atmosphere of compliance and fully monitor his staff. The charges leveled against Coach Self are not based on fact."

Quote

On Sept. 19, 2017 — three days before KU Athletics announced a 12-year contract extension with Adidas — Gassnola texted Self to tell him thank you for helping to get that extension done. Self replied via text that he was happy with Adidas and wrote “Just got to get a couple real guys.”

Gassnola responded with a text that said, “In my mind, it’s KU, Bill Self. Everyone else fall into line. Too (expletive) bad. That’s what’s right for Adidas basketball. And I know I’m right. The more you have lottery picks and you happy. That’s how it should work in my mind.” Self replied by text, “That’s how ur (sic) works. At UNC and Duke.” Gassnola answered by saying Kentucky as well. “I promise you I got this. I have never let you down. Except Deandre. Lol. We will get it right.”

In this case, Gassnola could be referring to center Deandre Ayton. Gassnola testified Thursday that he felt he let Self down when Ayton chose Arizona instead of KU.

 

Edited by Beau Vine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my business we bang a lot of broads. BUT! We have a gentlemen's agreement that we won't bang WHORES. Now, unbeknownst to me my business partner hired this whore to come bang me. Chick shows up, I lay the pipe. But you gotta realize I'm thinking she's banging me 'cause I've got this classic red and blue Corvette, right? So now I'm the bad guy for banging a whore! How was I supposed to know??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because pussy just drops outta the sky, right?

 

No.  people know there are strings attached.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well it isn’t what you know it’s what you can prove. Unless it’s the ncaa. I haven’t read our response you but the angle that if a shoe company is a booster and the shoe company supplies shoes to AAU players then the players are taking benefits is actually reasonably logical. Especially because the players at the aau level ARE being recruited by schools that are sponsored by the shoe company. Very logical argument, but to see that and agree with that would take a policy change by the ncaa. I don’t see the ncaa changing policy over this in a way that would save our skin. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Iceman said:

Because pussy just drops outta the sky, right?

 

No.  people know there are strings attached.

I'm not excusing anyone but the pussy analogy stand, imho. Chicks are attracted to prestige and will bone ugly ass dudes because that dude has something they want to be around. The blue bloods of college basketball attract top recruits on reputation alone in many cases. It doesn't have to be about money changing hands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, El Diablo said:

I'm not excusing anyone but the pussy analogy stand, imho. Chicks are attracted to prestige and will bone ugly ass dudes because that dude has something they want to be around. The blue bloods of college basketball attract top recruits on reputation alone in many cases. It doesn't have to be about money changing hands.

awwww.  You love Auburn too, eh?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Iceman said:

awwww.  You love Auburn too, eh?

If Beard has some long term success at TT are we going to then just assume that when he lands top recruits that it was because money changed hands?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, El Diablo said:

If Beard has some long term success at TT are we going to then just assume that when he lands top recruits that it was because money changed hands?

I already assume it.  maybe that makes ME the asshole.  Oh well.

College sports are dirty AF.  If you think "Oh everyone else is ridin dirty,  but my peeps are pristine..."  Yeah, that is just flat out delusion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Iceman said:

I already assume it.  maybe that makes ME the asshole.  Oh well.

College sports are dirty AF.  If you think "Oh everyone else is ridin dirty,  but my peeps are pristine..."  Yeah, that is just flat out delusion.

I think your cynicism does say something. Not sure what though, lol. To drape a blanket over anyone in the sport though is unfair. And you know this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, El Diablo said:

I think your cynicism does say something. Not sure what though, lol. To drape a blanket over anyone in the sport though is unfair. And you know this.

I'm not accusing Beard.  i'm just saying I assume it is going on, given the environment.

That being said, when there's smoke billowing out of a program like Kansas or UNC...  yeah,  I don't lean to the " It's probably just a big misunderstanding" camp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone who is competing in college basketball is doing something dirty.  There is a huge difference in giving a kid $200k in cash and in helping him find favorable off campus housing, however.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, txhorns said:

Everyone who is competing in college basketball is doing something dirty.  There is a huge difference in giving a kid $200k in cash and in helping him find favorable off campus housing, however.

Indeed, so when you add in all the shoe contracts and money in the industry, do you think a 5* or McD's AA player chooses between KU and say, Memphis because the rent's $100/ month cheaper in Lawrence?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Iceman said:

Indeed, so when you add in all the shoe contracts and money in the industry, do you think a 5* or McD's AA player chooses between KU and say, Memphis because the rent's $100/ month cheaper in Lawrence?

For most 5* players I would say no.  Not every kid is dirty.  For instance I could see a kid like Will Baker being clean.  Goes to Texas because he grew up in Austin and was always a fan of the school.  The kids swayed by the cheaper housing and shit like that are not 5* players.  They are the type of guys that Beard and Scott Drew are getting right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Beard's high school kids are elite now.

His grad transfers and how he gets them have piqued my interest.  They have been substantial contributors, to say the least, for the past 2 seasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Shaka was able to pay kids 10k a semester and Coach K wasn’t able to I guarantee Shaka isn’t going to get any more 5* kids than K. The quality of coach and stage matters a ton. 
 

elite prospects get paid because elite schools are competing for them. A kid that gets paid to go to South Carolina isn’t getting his market rate run up by duke or Ku. 
 

the shoe companies have done a number on the sport. The coaches and schools and the ncaa have allowed it to happen. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

i think the moral of the story is that Tech and Kansas should each get the death penalty

We already got one in football, albeit self imposed...

Cut us some slack, brah. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Scheme on HBO is an absolute must watch for any college basketball fan that’s confused by everything that’s happened. It helps address some of the most confusing aspects of the whole scandal. It also is infuriating in ten different ways.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


mpu


Football ... Basketball ... Baseball ... Other Sports ... Recruiting ... Gambling ... Movies & TV ... Music ... Hobbies ... Lulz ... Food & Travel ... Daily Texan ... Help ... For Sale ... Politics ... Board Discussion
×
×
  • Create New...