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Ghost of LL

Time to Peace Out (Relocate Overseas)?

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14 minutes ago, Doug E. Fresh said:

I'm moving to London in mid-September.  House in Houston closes late August, movers pack up a few days later, then driving to Terlingua for one final hurrah before flying out.  The move isn't Covid related as it's been in the plans with me and the wife for around 5 years. We have passports from our previous 6 years over there so getting in is easy. It's just taken that long with career, money, etc. to get it done.  Wish I wasn't moving in the middle of a global pandemic but it's now or never for my work opportunities in London and E. Europe. And if it doesn't work out or we find it's not what we want (or remember), there is always a path back. 

Can I come?

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9 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

So as we are about to enter our fourth month of lockdown with no end in sight, and as we look around at the rest of the world that has the virus more or less under control, I'm thinking of biting the bullet, doing the 14-day quarantine, and relocating elsewhere.

A few considerations on this:

1) I can really do my job from anywhere in the world at this point.  All court hearings are remote.  All client meetings are remote.  I can ship my workstation anywhere and get my shit done, whether I'm in Austin or Australia (though the hours in Australia might be a challenge).

2) If the TEA says that all kids need to go back to school in person--fuck that noise.  At the same time they're saying that, the state doesn't provide any funding for a safe return to in-class school.  We'll do remote private school before we do that.  And that's going to cost a metric fuckton.

So at this point, isn't it a viable alternative to relocate to Canada or Europe, get a residency visa for a year, enroll the kids in school (either public school or the American school wherever we are), and work from Toronto/Paris/Berlin?

What's the downside of this plan?

Private school will cost, cost of living will cost, but if you think the children are safer, go for it, you may consider north or south not east or west so as to not timezone. Would think private insurance may cost as well. Might want to invest in air ambulance insurance in case they treat you like the dirty foreigners you all are. I always thought Buenos Aires was a great place. Though may lead to divorce between the wine and the copious amount of restaurant  quality ass.

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If I didn’t get my teaching job 12 years ago fresh off divorce I was moving to Buenos Aires. Be a bum and teach English. I had 60k in my pocket and no commitments and figured that could last me a long ass time as a single dude down there. 

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20 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

If I didn’t get my teaching job 12 years ago fresh off divorce I was moving to Buenos Aires. Be a bum and teach English. I had 60k in my pocket and no commitments and figured that could last me a long ass time as a single dude down there. 

Very few men can make this statement.

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9 hours ago, Lobo said:

You have a better memory than I do, I think on one Navy thread, I mentioned his service.  Glad you remember random shit, you'd make a great second wife for me ;) 

Yeah, I've written on the death of the physical bank branch on some threads on real estate and business where it's very pertinent.  I wonder if you remember this much detail for people you actually like?  ;) 

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to look busy so i get that promotion.  

A fair number of us here were once members of Uncle Sam's canoe club so I guess that's why I remember that tidbit. 

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10 minutes ago, Casual Encounter said:

Very few men can make this statement.

And I let her keep an extra $30k, even though she had no right to it and she’d made me sign a prenup. Why?  Because it was worth it. 

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1 hour ago, Alien Octopus said:

Private school will cost, cost of living will cost, but if you think the children are safer, go for it, you may consider north or south not east or west so as to not timezone. Would think private insurance may cost as well. Might want to invest in air ambulance insurance in case they treat you like the dirty foreigners you all are. I always thought Buenos Aires was a great place. Though may lead to divorce between the wine and the copious amount of restaurant  quality ass.

Yeah--I think that's a fair suggestion.

I'm also thinking about the New York option, as they seem to have the thing much better in hand.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

A fair number of us here were once members of Uncle Sam's canoe club so I guess that's why I remember that tidbit. 

Well bullshit aside, thank you for your service.  As my father reminded me periodically, from my great-grandfather and his brothers on down to his son and his son and my uncles and cousins, 7 served proudly in the Navy during the 20th Century (but 2 in the Kriegsmarine, but hey---why can't we all be brothers?).  Another dozen or so in the Marine Corps and Army (even one in the Air Force).  But out of all 'em...only one went dove down.  Grand Uncle Steve, still the head of the Florida Submariners Alumni group well into his 90's.  Came to visit last year for our daughter's birthday while he was in Texas for yet another alumni banquet.  We live a few hundred feet from Mopac and although he could find the Grand Banks with no issue, he needed my help to get back to the access road. 

My dad encouraged me to go the JAG Corps route when I went off to law school after UT.  He wanted somebody in our family to go into the Navy as an officer after so many enlisted men.  We were all comfortable in the open water from a young age, or as comfortable as you can be.  Everybody in the family had an opinion on it one way or the other, except Great Uncle Steve.  He was silent.  Didn't appreciate that for decades afterwards.  Nobody even told me he was a Submariner until I was in my late 20's.  He was just cut from a different cloth. 

Years later, he was serving as the Director of Public Affairs at the Department of Agriculture under Pres. Ford (he had served also under Nixon).  He was stabbed in the eye near the Washington Monument by a demented protestor.   He has lived nearly the last half century with one eye with the simple ideology that he lived much of his life under water with two eyes; up here with one eye isn't that much different.  

Run Silent, Run Deep.  He is altogether a different breed.  And as fate would have it, despite that some shit in his service years and the violence visited upon him afterwards, he is by far the most benevolent member of our family.  To this day, many of us continue his benchmark of 30 hours a month of philanthropy and 30% of our income to charity.  Year in and year out.  I don't know what happened to him on that sub or what that stabber took from his skull with that knife.  But I am by far better off from having known him.  Thanks to all Submariners.  Sorry for thread tangent.  

Edited by Lobo

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58 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Yeah--I think that's a fair suggestion.

I'm also thinking about the New York option, as they seem to have the thing much better in hand.

Or, they’ve already had it run through their population 

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10 hours ago, Lobo said:

The door to Canada?   
 

you’re the one who shit the thread and claimed that people who may wish to spend a few months visiting another nation for the betterment of their children were abandoning their country?   
 

my uncle was a submariner during WWII and spends a couple months a year abroad.  Does that means he’s abandoned his nation?   You’re the one with the logic skills of a Dalmatian.  

Your submariner uncle must be pretty spry for being at least 93 or so. How old are you if you don't mind my asking?

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How is it in Mexico? San Miguel de Allende has a lot of gringos. You’d probably feel safe there. Great weather. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Deej said:

Unbelievably big trout.

Good luck getting to live there. Had a friend marry a Kiwi last year and they denied him citizenship, because he's retired and there was concern he would end up going on the government dole. Said he wouldn't have married her if he'd known that. Lulz. 

IIRC from a few years ago, to retire to NZ required not just a minimum income stream, assets, and private insurance, but also a minimum investment in a state fund of almost $900,000.  Australia was similar, though the investment requirement was cut in half if you were willing to live in low-growth areas, so no Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Gold Coast, or Perth.  But there are some far suburbs about 20-40 miles out that were in the low-growth exception, as is all of Adelaide (1.4 million metro, about the size of OKC, but without the barefoot Sooner trash.)   I think they may have altered the retirement visa requirements recently.

Supposedly Canada is pretty tough to get citizenship without having a Canadian relative.  Same for Uruguay, and many of the Scandinavian countries.  In contrast Spain and Portugal are almost as easy to qualify for as Central and South American countries, but have a much lower crime risk.  Their murder rate is about 1/7th of the United States, and other than Madrid, Barcelona, and central Lisbon, have a much lower cost of living.  Still have requirements for assets and  a retirement income stream, but low compared to most European countries.  Private health insurance is probably 1/3rd or less of the cost of here in the US and a 2-br high rise within a few blocks of the beach and with an ocean view can be had along much of the Costa Blanca (Alicante to Denia) for around $120-170k.  A little more in Malaga, the same on Portugal's Algarve coast.  Weather similar to San Diego.  And so many Brits have moved to the Alicante, Malaga/Marbella, Algarve, and Lisbon areas that there are several English speaking doctors offices and various other services.  IIRC, 100k permanent Brits, Irish, and Americans in Alicante province and 60k in Malaga.  So all things considered, probably as easy a transition as moving to Panama, but without the tropical disease risk.

We're seriously thinking of eventually retiring to coastal Spain or Portugal.  Every time I run the numbers it comes up saving $5k+ a year over anything comparable in a safe, non-podunk area in the most of the US.  With better weather and less crime. 

Edited by clapclapclap
I should clarify, having a Canucklehead relative probably doesn't help with getting citizenship in Uruguay or Scandinavian countries.

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private insurance


What’s interesting is that health insurance from a US company is about 10-15% the cost of the same policy here. The expat policies don’t provide coverage in the US so the insurer can provide at a much lower rate since healthcare is much cheaper everywhere else.

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56 minutes ago, Capt. Squints said:

Your submariner uncle must be pretty spry for being at least 93 or so. How old are you if you don't mind my asking?

He's technically my grand-uncle, we just call him Uncle Steve.  Not sure why people call the siblings of their grandparents, their great-uncles/great-aunts.  He's my paternal grandmother's brother, so grand-uncle.  If I called him my great uncle, as most would do, wouldn't that make him the brother of a great-grandparent?  Never understood that.  

Anyway, he's early-to-mid 90's.  Not exactly sure of age.  He's on the younger side of that whole "generation" of the family from the wars (II & Korea), all of them are gone now except for him (they'd all be over 100 by now).  I'm 44.  He is damn spry.  His wife passed away (RIP, Aunt Iris) a few years ago and he's shacking up with Denise (who is barely 70, way to go Steve!).  He still heads up the Boca Raton (insert Seinfeld jokes here) Rotary Club and a huge swarth of the 1940's/1950's Submariner alumni groups in Florida.  Literally last year, they fly into San Antonio for the national convention, they drive to College Station for some twice-removed nephew of hers' graduation from A&M, then over here to visit us for a day, then drive out the Hill Country to see his step-son, and then back to S.A. to fly home to Florida.  Guy drove more miles in one long weekend than I drive in a month.  I think he was just a bit shy of 1000 days submerged over his career.   I need to get more of service details.  I'll PM you his full name and the link to his alumni newsletter, don't know if you'll get the kick out of it that I do.  Anyway thanks for listening, always like talking about him.  Another classic case of a relative and veteran who I only got to appreciate later in life, but so damn grateful that I did.  

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3 hours ago, slorch said:

Intercontinental flight from Terlingua?

Yeah, they have a great direct flight out of there.  The runway is a bit short for a big plane, but it's doable.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Doug E. Fresh said:

Yeah, they have a great direct flight out of there.  The runway is a bit short for a big plane, but it's doable.

And fast boarding.  In 6 minutes Doug E. Fresh you're on.

Edited by clapclapclap
uh uh on, uh uh on. uh, uhuh uhuh, uh uh on

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Posted (edited)

I’ve circled the globe a few times. There are definitely places I’d rather live than America in the short term. But, in the long term, no. The patriotic bullshit is all some people have to hold on to. Despite common beliefs, most of the world is just as free and has the same rights we do. There are some other pitfalls of being an ex-pat, mainly taxes. Unlike the rest of the world, America still wants a slice of its apple pie unless you renounce your citizenship, which leads to a host of other issues if you want to visit. 

Moving due to COVID though? Sounds retarded. That should be saved for November once the election results are in. 

Edited by Spankytoes

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Lobo said:

He's technically my grand-uncle, we just call him Uncle Steve.  Not sure why people call the siblings of their grandparents, their great-uncles/great-aunts.  He's my paternal grandmother's brother, so grand-uncle.  If I called him my great uncle, as most would do, wouldn't that make him the brother of a great-grandparent?  Never understood that.  

Anyway, he's early-to-mid 90's.  Not exactly sure of age.  He's on the younger side of that whole "generation" of the family from the wars (II & Korea), all of them are gone now except for him (they'd all be over 100 by now).  I'm 44.  He is damn spry.  His wife passed away (RIP, Aunt Iris) a few years ago and he's shacking up with Denise (who is barely 70, way to go Steve!).  He still heads up the Boca Raton (insert Seinfeld jokes here) Rotary Club and a huge swarth of the 1940's/1950's Submariner alumni groups in Florida.  Literally last year, they fly into San Antonio for the national convention, they drive to College Station for some twice-removed nephew of hers' graduation from A&M, then over here to visit us for a day, then drive out the Hill Country to see his step-son, and then back to S.A. to fly home to Florida.  Guy drove more miles in one long weekend than I drive in a month.  I think he was just a bit shy of 1000 days submerged over his career.   I need to get more of service details.  I'll PM you his full name and the link to his alumni newsletter, don't know if you'll get the kick out of it that I do.  Anyway thanks for listening, always like talking about him.  Another classic case of a relative and veteran who I only got to appreciate later in life, but so damn grateful that I did.  

you post like how my grandma would write a post

Edited by Bash Riprock

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2 hours ago, GRHorn said:

Or, they’ve already had it run through their population 

Or they accelerated the cull by mandating nursing homes convalesce covid patients.

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Posted (edited)

If you are a white man, I would take a hard look at Warsaw or Krakow, Poland. There is a reason that all the consulting firms, the Big 4, and big Tech (Google, facebook, etc.) are all offshoring there. It's decently educated and it's far enough eastern europe that it's super cheap, but still gets you G7/EU protections and normalcy (Western culture, laws, etc.). I've been over there half of the year for the last 2 years and still conduct business on EST. It's not very diverse (Trump and Trumpers would love it here), but it's safe and white and cheap (and the fastest growing BPO geo along with....Lithuania???).

Otherwise, I know a guy who spends half his time in Curacao which is a Netherlands territory and he has a house on a resort property there that he loves. I'd look into that, apparently pretty easy. Also Netherlands has some oil rigs and concerns out there in the caribbean off of Curacao and considers it strategic so you get the weight/support of the Netherlands military there so it's pretty safe.

Edited by Rougarou

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The Netherlands Military? buncha duders wearing orange utility worker jackets smoking dope and drinking genever. 

shit sign me

i have already left but if I had to again I would do Uruguay. places already said here but to add more:

- Uruguay - Almost went there a decade ago in 2010 when I first thought of leaving the US. Top notch place, beautiful country, not many people, etc. Limited economic opps though. Only progressive country in SA I believe. Legal pot, no state religion

- Eastern Euro - Poland, CR, Hungary, etc. Prob stop short of the baltics or Ukraines cuz Russia. Cold AF though

- Australia - great place. Kind of a mini America from the 1990s. better concept of public good. lots of economic opps but again depends on your gig. will hopefully not follow the path that America is on. 

- British Columbia - great culture. cold but whatever. 

- Montreal - same, but really fucking cold

 

 

 

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Living abroad for an extended period of time is an experience that everyone should get if they can. Your children would be, especially lucky, to experience it while young. It will give you a different perspective on the USA and what is great about it and not so great about it. I am just not sure how good your experience will be during the pandemic, since anywhere in the world could have a COVID flare up or second outbreak, if more or less contained, at anytime. Sure, most likely any developed country is going to handle it better than the USA has so far, but that is an extremely low bar to get over. Also even in countries with it relatively under control some things just won't be back to normal for awhile and a lot of things that you could usually experience to get a better feel for the country and culture won't be available due to the virus risks. Schools will be among the first things closed, in most countries who already contained the first COVID wave, if there is a second wave in the fall/winter.

If I was going to get away from home during this pandemic I'd most likely hit somewhere with things you can do without people around, like the mountains or sea. If I was in the USA right now, working from home, I'd be doing like a few people already posted.  I'd be in Colorado at the family cabin in the Rockies where I could do some outdoors stuff away from people. If I had to leave South Korea at this time, I'd head to the Philippines, to join my wife and newly adopted 2 month old baby daughter (whom I have not been able to see yet due to quarantines coming and going), at my place there by the sea and enjoy fishing, swimming, and drinking some cheap booze at sunset. 

Whatever you decide I hope it works out for you and your family. Hopefully you an find somewhere your family will enjoy and avoid infection.

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47 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

spain or portugal is the move here, and you get EU access 

Son has been in Spain since October.  Wife and I have a running bet that his ass ends up there after he gets out of the military.

We were going to have Christmas there as a family this year.    Fuck you Covid...

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10 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

Yeah--I think that's a fair suggestion.

I'm also thinking about the New York option, as they seem to have the thing much better in hand.

New York in a way is lucky that we had a terrible wave early.  It meant people took it seriously, and so compliance about things lilke masks etc.. has been very good.  We still wanted things to reopen, but cautiously.  So far, so good.  Stage 3 just started here in the city.  The proof will be in the pudding in a few weeks, but elsewhere in the state, we are not seeing the case jump.  Granted, we are still seeing quite a large number of new cases, but we are testing out the wazoo, so the positive rate is still only 1% or so, and the hospitalization rate is very, very low.

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10 hours ago, Lobo said:

He's technically my grand-uncle, we just call him Uncle Steve.  Not sure why people call the siblings of their grandparents, their great-uncles/great-aunts.  He's my paternal grandmother's brother, so grand-uncle.  If I called him my great uncle, as most would do, wouldn't that make him the brother of a great-grandparent?  Never understood that.  

Anyway, he's early-to-mid 90's.  Not exactly sure of age.  He's on the younger side of that whole "generation" of the family from the wars (II & Korea), all of them are gone now except for him (they'd all be over 100 by now).  I'm 44.  He is damn spry.  His wife passed away (RIP, Aunt Iris) a few years ago and he's shacking up with Denise (who is barely 70, way to go Steve!).  He still heads up the Boca Raton (insert Seinfeld jokes here) Rotary Club and a huge swarth of the 1940's/1950's Submariner alumni groups in Florida.  Literally last year, they fly into San Antonio for the national convention, they drive to College Station for some twice-removed nephew of hers' graduation from A&M, then over here to visit us for a day, then drive out the Hill Country to see his step-son, and then back to S.A. to fly home to Florida.  Guy drove more miles in one long weekend than I drive in a month.  I think he was just a bit shy of 1000 days submerged over his career.   I need to get more of service details.  I'll PM you his full name and the link to his alumni newsletter, don't know if you'll get the kick out of it that I do.  Anyway thanks for listening, always like talking about him.  Another classic case of a relative and veteran who I only got to appreciate later in life, but so damn grateful that I did.  

Thanks for your response and your family's service. The math makes more sense now.

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2 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

New York in a way is lucky that we had a terrible wave early.  It meant people took it seriously, and so compliance about things lilke masks etc.. has been very good.  We still wanted things to reopen, but cautiously.  So far, so good.  Stage 3 just started here in the city.  The proof will be in the pudding in a few weeks, but elsewhere in the state, we are not seeing the case jump.  Granted, we are still seeing quite a large number of new cases, but we are testing out the wazoo, so the positive rate is still only 1% or so, and the hospitalization rate is very, very low.

Yeah--the more I think about it, the more I think the City is a real option.  Get an apartment and do the quarantine thing for a couple weeks.  And then hopefully a lot of things are somewhat open.  I saw that MoMA is reopening in August.  It'd be nice if the library and the Museum of Natural History were open.

The problem is that as soon as you reopen, you're going to get flooded with a bunch of tourists who aren't going to quarantine for 2-3 weeks and who are going to run around spewing their tourist germs.

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47 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Yeah--the more I think about it, the more I think the City is a real option.  Get an apartment and do the quarantine thing for a couple weeks.  And then hopefully a lot of things are somewhat open.  I saw that MoMA is reopening in August.  It'd be nice if the library and the Museum of Natural History were open.

The problem is that as soon as you reopen, you're going to get flooded with a bunch of tourists who aren't going to quarantine for 2-3 weeks and who are going to run around spewing their tourist germs.

I’m going to be disappointed if this ends like al the Hollywood assholes who were going to move out of the country whenever something happens they don’t like. Don’t be a tease. Do it and then burn the ships afterwards. It’s the only way to be sure. 

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10 hours ago, Rougarou said:

Krakow, Poland.

Damn. That is one of my favorite cities. If I lived there the Grasovka Bison Grass would kill me though.

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18 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Damn. That is one of my favorite cities. If I lived there the Grasovka Bison Grass would kill me though.

There is a pierogi place in the Jewish district that is the best restaurant on earth I've ever eaten. That alone would make me think hard on a relo.

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2 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

There is a pierogi place in the Jewish district that is the best restaurant on earth I've ever eaten. That alone would make me think hard on a relo.

I could hang out in the Square and watch people all day. If the language wasn't a barrier, that's where I'd head.

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1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I could hang out in the Square and watch people all day. If the language wasn't a barrier, that's where I'd head.

But, again to OP's benefit, it's supposed to be an English-first country (due to EU). My experience is it's 50/50.

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spain or portugal is the move here, and you get EU access 

The only issue with Spain is that your annual income taxes are based on net wealth not income. At least, that’s how I understand it. Then again, if all your money is offshore, they only know what you tell them.

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On 7/8/2020 at 9:21 AM, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Do they have pretzels there?

That's why he is really considering the move....he skeered.

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I would definitely consider it if circumstances allowed.  I would have to be retired, as my work is definitely location based and not mobile.  Some friends of our moved to Panama for a year and loved it.  Put there 9 and 12 year olds in local schools.  But it was always a one year deal.  Permanent relocation would never work for us as I couldn't live in a different country than my kids.  No way.  

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Panama City is way too fucking humid and I say that as a native Houstonian.

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On 7/8/2020 at 10:55 AM, crash_davis said:

Scratch Norway off the list.

them be mosquitoes, 6 days worth of trapping at one dude's house.

yopxleuvok951.jpg

Holy shit, fuck that....

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14 hours ago, GRHorn said:

Or, they’ve already had it run through their population 

The total infection rate among the total NYC population is estimated to be around 20%.  It hasn't run through the population.

Being the initial outbreak site caused real behavior changes. Shelter in place was effective, and social distancing and mask rules are largely followed in the reopening.  Another difference is that NYC Trumpers, who trend old, are also some of the loudest proponents of wearing masks in most NYC neighborhoods, but real interaction with the effects of the virus caused that.  Almost everyone here has been personally affected by the virus and knows someone who has been gravely ill or passed away from it.  Anti-mask Karens, and partying Gen Zers, still exist but they are shamed away pretty quickly usually. 

 

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On 7/8/2020 at 9:55 AM, bolverk said:

According to Worldometers, Vermont only has 159 active cases right now.

Vermont is nice but like New Hampshire more for a living prospect. For visiting though, I'm oddly in love with Rhode Island.

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26 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

Panama City is way too fucking humid and I say that as a native Houstonian.

They lived in an interior city called Boquete that was at 3,200 ft some not nearly as humid.  But like an hour from the coast, so they traveled there frequently.

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On 7/8/2020 at 12:16 PM, Lobo said:

Yeah, if Covid-19, global pandemics, quarantines, horrible racial injustice, police murdering innocent civilians, riots, mayhem, murder hornets, once-in-a-century saharan dust storms, economic calamity, manipulating elections, and a sperm whale calf found in the middle of the fucking Amazon Basin.....if that's "the First Sign of Trouble" to Fred Willard, what in the fuck does the actual trouble look like?  

I mean, it was cool and all in "No Country for Old Men" when TLJ said, "If it ain't, it'll do until the mess gets here."  But holy fuck, what does the actual mess look like to you, man?  I ain't saying it's time for me to expatriate.  But I'm sure as hell gonna look seriously at getting out of the U.S. between November and February.  There's going to be a dramatic spike in the virus and there's going to be serious citizen-on-citizen violence.  And I don't want my children to be here for it.  My record of work to improve my community and nation has warranted me to do this ten-fold.  I'll take the Pepsi Challenge on that anytime.

Oh for gawds sake, toughen up Mr. Sissy Britches, lol😂

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My point was simply that if this is just the first sign of trouble for him, I don’t want to be around when the real shit hits the fan.  
 

the old story about the man In the flood who gets a radio warning, a rescue boat, and a helicopter but thinks that his god will save him.  We are beyond fucked right now but Americans working together is what gets us out of it.  I suspect most political “leaders” and God are all on the sidelines right now.  As usual, we gotta be men of action here in the real world.   I may just opt to help for a few weeks from Canada or Costa Rica.  

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