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Hugo Stiglitz

The Robert Mueller Investigation

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1 minute ago, Poolflood said:

Fixed

True.  But not surprised.  She is in on the grift. 

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Lulz. 
I guess [mention=203]jimmyjazz[/mention] lost interest in the exchange. 
 
Oh, and LOL at Natasha Bertrand in general.  

LOL

She’s almost as funny as electing a conman grifter who enjoys peeing on young prostitutes to the most powerful position in the world.

LOL

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1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Lulz. 

I guess @jimmyjazz lost interest in the exchange. 

 

Oh, and LOL at Natasha Bertrand in general.  

Sorry, just got distracted by other things.  I'll re-read your last post and get back to you.

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5 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I'm shocked this thread hasn't grown by 20 pages already.  Ana must be out to lunch.

busy cashing checks from record profits in the health insurance industry probably

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5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Here is the actual filing.  Anything in there you find interesting? 

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/17445533/1/united-states-v-clinesmith/

 

 

Forgive me for not being a legal scholar, but I did read it twice, and it appears on the fourth FISA application (out of 4) that the FBI agent changed some language to keep the FISA warrant going.  Is that right?

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6 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Forgive me for not being a legal scholar, but I did read it twice, and it appears on the fourth FISA application (out of 4) that the FBI agent changed some language to keep the FISA warrant going.  Is that right?

The part that jumped out at me was the part where the CIA told members of the CH hurricane team in August 2016, prior to any of the applications, that CP was an operational contact for the CIA as far back as 2003.  We already knew the timing and extent of the material falsification by Clinesmith. 

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This was alway what I suspected. Mueller was trying to link Manafort and Kilimnick to the Kremlin’s offensive operation on the election but couldn’t quite get there with the evidence. 

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3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This was alway what I suspected. Mueller was trying to link Manafort and Kilimnick to the Kremlin’s offensive operation on the election but couldn’t quite get there with the evidence. 

Yep.

But Carter Page and FISA warrants...

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On 8/14/2020 at 1:02 PM, Anastasis said:

The part that jumped out at me was the part where the CIA told members of the CH hurricane team in August 2016, prior to any of the applications, that CP was an operational contact for the CIA as far back as 2003.  We already knew the timing and extent of the material falsification by Clinesmith. 

Yeah this in the grand scheme of things seems important. I guess. 

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Can someone please explain the difference between Manafort and a full blown spy? Like, what more could he possibly do to prove it? 

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16 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Can someone please explain the difference between Manafort and a full blown spy? Like, what more could he possibly do to prove it? 

Well for one thing. He could have lived in an age when the Republican Party hadn’t turned full traitor and we were living in normal times where he would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law with the full support of the American people.

The Republican Party over the last 60 years has made sure that reality no longer exists. 

The chickens have come home to roost. 

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Can someone please explain the difference between Manafort and a full blown spy? Like, what more could he possibly do to prove it? 

My thought today was what is it going to take to meet the criteria of collusion.

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1 hour ago, Woland said:


My thought today was what is it going to take to meet the criteria of collusion.

Well, FISA court abuses, so what were you asking?

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It is interesting that all of the story lines here seem to converge through Oleg Deripaska. 

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2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

It is interesting that all of the story lines here seem to converge through Oleg Deripaska. 

He’s one of the only vectors (we know of) where some of the money was followed. 

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48 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Obstructing justice works.

Mueller was afraid of his own shadow. Turns out he was the wrong person to put in charge. 

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44 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Mueller was afraid of his own shadow. Turns out he was the wrong person to put in charge. 

Rod Rosenstein chose him for a reason.

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Yeah, if Woodward's angle is correct, that's disappointing.  It speaks to the concern that a company man might have been too buttoned up to draw needed conclusions.

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17 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Weissman is the one promoting his book right now, right?

Correct. From the interview I read yesterday, dude basically painted himself as a true hero who was righteous but held back. 

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Yeah he certainly comes across as self-serving, but I don't doubt that the investigation was too chickenshit to do its job.

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I mean the Trump people were vocally afraid of Weissman.  Not sure if it was warranted but they didn’t want him near the investigation. 

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13 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Yeah he certainly comes across as self-serving, but I don't doubt that the investigation was too chickenshit to do its job.

I'm pretty sure he and Mueller are fairly polar opposites.  He's a rabid dog and Mueller is a gentleman.

Rather than being fundamentally "afraid," I think Mueller was three things a) acutely conscious of the overreach of the Starr investigation (with Rosenstein chirping in his ear to boot);  b) wary of provoking a constitutional crisis (either via subpoena or another "midnight massacre," and again Rosenstein chirping in his ear); and c) naive about Trumpco's willingness to break norms.

The net result is the investigation was too timid.  The ideal probably would have been somewhere between the two.  Weissman would have probably provoked two constitutional crises by subpoena'ing and getting himself fired.  God knows where that would have ended up.  Well, in actuality, given subsequent events, the subpoena probably would have been sustained, and the firing a ground for impeachment but otherwise legally not actionable.  Even so, we'd be in "God knows" territory because the investigation probably wouldn't have concluded as a result of the firing, thus no report, and the subpoena, although sustained, would never have been fulfilled.

Edited by TwiceHorn

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4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm pretty sure he and Mueller are fairly polar opposites.  He's a rabid dog and Mueller is a gentleman.

Rather than being fundamentally "afraid," I think Mueller was three things a) acutely conscious of the overreach of the Starr investigation (with Rosenstein chirping in his ear to boot);  b) wary of provoking a constitutional crisis (either via subpoena or another "midnight massacre," and again Rosenstein chirping in his ear); and c) naive about Trumpco's willingness to break norms.

The net result is the investigation was too timid.  The ideal probably would have been somewhere between the two.  Weissman would have probably provoked two constitutional crises by subpoena'ing and getting himself fired.  God knows where that would have ended up.  Well, in actuality, given subsequent events, the subpoena probably would have been sustained, and the firing a ground for impeachment but otherwise legally not actionable.

I think that would’ve been a preferable scenario. It wouldn’t have given Barr the opportunity to write his bullshit letter and convince half the country that Trump had actually been exonerated.

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1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

I think that would’ve been a preferable scenario. It wouldn’t have given Barr the opportunity to write his bullshit letter and convince half the country that Trump had actually been exonerated.

See my edits.  I think where it would have ended up with a Weissman is no concluded investigation and no report because of the firing.

But also a pretty fucking solid ground of impeachment.

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1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

See my edits.  I think where it would have ended up with a Weissman is no concluded investigation and no report because of the firing.

But also a pretty fucking solid ground of impeachment.

Yeah. I assume that would be the scenario. While I don't think the report has no value, I don't think it has that much so I think that scenario would've been better. The only people who actually read the report were those of us who actually cared and we already knew a lot of the details and already opposed the administration. Many of the details had been reported already and the value of the report was in combining them into a coherent story, but the vast majority of Americans didn't read it.  Barr was able to lie to a majority of the American people, a bunch of dumb reporters repeated and magnified his lie because they didn't know better, and the Democrats were too inept and scared to push back on the lies once the report came out.

If Trump had fired the special prosecutor and shut down the office it would've looked a lot worse to those moderates/centrists who thought the investigation was warranted but weren't sure whether there was anything there. Those people now believe there wasn't anything there, even though we've got a subsequent Senate report (from Republicans!) clearly stating that the Trump campaign was giving internal polling data to a Russian intelligence agent. Barr did his job well. Enraging Trump and forcing his hand would've prevented that.

Edited by wildcat09

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4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Yeah. I assume that would be the scenario. While I don't think the report has no value, I don't think it has that much so I think that scenario would've been better. The only people who actually read the report were those of us who actually cared and we already knew a lot of the details and already opposed the administration. Many of the details had been reported already and the value of the report was in combining them into a coherent story, but the vast majority of Americans didn't read it.  Barr was able to lie to a majority of the American people, a bunch of dumb reports repeated and magnified his lie because they didn't know better, and the Democrats were too inept and scared to push back on the lies once the report came out.

If Trump had fired the special prosecutor and shut down the office it would've looked a lot worse to those moderates/centrists who thought the investigation was warranted but weren't sure whether there was anything there. Those people now believe there wasn't anything there, even though we've got a subsequent Senate report (from Republicans!) clearly stating that the Trump campaign was giving internal polling data to a Russian intelligence agent. Barr did his job well. Enraging Trump and forcing his hand would've prevented that.

Can't disagree with that.

The fascinating question would have been, could Trump's handlers have cajoled him into not firing the special prosecutor had he been subpoena'ed?

It took about a year to get the Vance subpoena issue mostly sorted out, which probably would have put the report out about now?

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Anything new this week guys on the Mueller investigation and the Steele dossier?  Anything perhaps on the Russian disinformation angle front? Nothing?

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On 9/22/2020 at 9:36 AM, TwiceHorn said:

I'm pretty sure he and Mueller are fairly polar opposites.  He's a rabid dog and Mueller is a gentleman.

Rather than being fundamentally "afraid," I think Mueller was three things a) acutely conscious of the overreach of the Starr investigation (with Rosenstein chirping in his ear to boot);  b) wary of provoking a constitutional crisis (either via subpoena or another "midnight massacre," and again Rosenstein chirping in his ear); and c) naive about Trumpco's willingness to break norms.

The net result is the investigation was too timid.  The ideal probably would have been somewhere between the two.  Weissman would have probably provoked two constitutional crises by subpoena'ing and getting himself fired.  God knows where that would have ended up.  Well, in actuality, given subsequent events, the subpoena probably would have been sustained, and the firing a ground for impeachment but otherwise legally not actionable.  Even so, we'd be in "God knows" territory because the investigation probably wouldn't have concluded as a result of the firing, thus no report, and the subpoena, although sustained, would never have been fulfilled.

Shit like this is why the House controls the money. I wish they had been brave enough to shut everything down until they got the accomplices in front of them under oath

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35 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Anything new this week guys on the Mueller investigation and the Steele dossier?  Anything perhaps on the Russian disinformation angle front? Nothing?

Baturina, hunter, 3.5mm?  Nah.  Not worth it. 

That was almost reported.  

Danchenko?

 

 

Edited by Poolflood
Holding my breath and, well drunk.

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1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Anything new this week guys on the Mueller investigation and the Steele dossier?  Anything perhaps on the Russian disinformation angle front? Nothing?

I anticipate further crickets. 
 

The level of investigative/prosecutorial malfeasance vs what was actually uncovered seems slanted pretty hard against the entire investigation.  I’m sure all the classical liberals and true conservatives that I’m told post here will be ok with it though.

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2 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

I anticipate further crickets. 
 

The level of investigative/prosecutorial malfeasance vs what was actually uncovered seems slanted pretty hard against the entire investigation.  I’m sure all the classical liberals and true conservatives that I’m told post here will be ok with it though.

No, the malfeasance doesn't extend into the Mueller investigation.

It taints the hell out of the Carter Page surveillance.  But neither the Page surveillance nor the Dossier were the sole sources of information indicating a need for an investigation of Russian interference.

But the Mueller investigation, even with its milquetoast conclusions, uncovered actual election-related psy ops conducted by actual Russians with more than a degree of consent and collaboration from Trump familiars.  

It also exposed, if nothing else, a complete and unprecedented lack of cooperation with the investigation by the Trump administration, even if that lack of cooperation falls short of obstruction of justice. 

Putting the bullshit witch hunt rhetoric aside, what did the Trump administration have to hide?  Donald J. Trump is insufficiently principled to rely on "the principle of the thing."

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25 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

No, the malfeasance doesn't extend into the Mueller investigation.

Twice, have you really tracked some of the shit released this week? It doesn't have anything to do with the surveillance.

Edited by Anastasis

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mpu


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