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First migrant facility for children opens under Biden


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1 hour ago, Bullneck said:

If you're concerned about the budget why not raise taxes on rich people and corporations?

 

Have I said anything about who should shoulder the burden of the costs ? Let's jump to conclusions whenever possible. How about we reign in some of the money we send over seas ? 

And why is it always hey let's just raise taxes ?  How about we handle our shit here at home with our own actual citizens before adding to the over burdened, bloated system now.

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4 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

This has always been the biggest question for me.  I spent a few hours one day researching on the web.  I tried to find reliable sources and those with juxtaposed policy positions.  What I discovered is that undocumented immigration either has a small benefit, net zero or small cost.  It's not huge one way or the other.

I haven't read anything about it, but I do worry about what the long-term effects would be of flooding the country with new poor people via some new guest worker or open borders policy. I'm reliably left of center on social issues, but I also would like to preserve our high standard of living. I would think at some point immigration would reach critical mass and would start overtaxing social services, schools, hospitals, etc. I would also think it would greatly increase the supply of cheap labor, which would lower wages among the poorest people and drive them further into poverty. I worry now about public schools.  I have seen in my own neighborhood public school that more than 50% of the kids are Hispanic (and I live in a white-ass neighborhood). I don't know for sure, but I think it's the presence of multifamily housing.  I see that doing nothing but increasing here. I'm guessing, but wouldn't a higher ratio of multifamily to single family tend to decrease the property tax base and the source of school funding? 

American immigration has always primarily been the unwashed masses. 90 percent of us white people came from poor people too. My ancestors left squalor in England. 

But that being said, immigration seems unbalanced toward the unskilled side because we restrict the hell out of educated immigrants.  This open door policy would also kill the H1B program. And unlike the unskilled labor immigrants, educated immigrants arent coming illegally if they are denied visas since they have some options in their home countries.  It has also prevented people on student visas from staying and working after graduating because work visas can be hard to come by. This may more than offset an increase in unskilled immigrants, who quite frankly, have largely been coming anyway if they want to come. 

We should already let in any doctor or engineer that wants to come. But we don't even come close to doing that.   But we do already let in pretty much anyone who wants to be a dishwasher. 

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I just don’t think it’s fair we have a wall of security, fingerprinting, searching, questioning at the airport for non-border countries and not one for border countries. Seems hypocritical. Logically it doesn’t make sense to my brain. If we can do the airport thing, why can’t we do the border thing? 

I guess it comes down to cost. I can understand that. 
 

I completely agree than any company that hires illegals needs to be harshly penalized to stop it. (But that will never happen because the US loves slave labor - especially big Ag companies like Del Monte) 

So accept and releasing with anklets too harsh for illegals?

 

 

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14 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

American immigration has always primarily been the unwashed masses. 90 percent of us white people came from poor people too. My ancestors left squalor in England. 

But that being said, immigration seems unbalanced toward the unskilled side because we restrict the hell out of educated immigrants.  This open door policy would also kill the H1B program. And unlike the unskilled labor immigrants, educated immigrants arent coming illegally if they are denied visas since they have some options in their home countries.  It has also prevented people on student visas from staying and working after graduating because work visas can be hard to come by. This may more than offset an increase in unskilled immigrants, who quite frankly, have largely been coming anyway if they want to come. 

We should already let in any doctor or engineer that wants to come. But we don't even come close to doing that.   But we do already let in pretty much anyone who wants to be a dishwasher. 

Yep, because Americans are fine with treating other people like shit and getting cheap ass labor as long as it’s not the whites. 

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2 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I just don’t think it’s fair we have a wall of security, fingerprinting, searching, questioning at the airport for non-border countries and not one for border countries. Seems hypocritical. Logically it doesn’t make sense to my brain. If we can do the airport thing, why can’t we do the border thing? 

I guess it comes down to cost. I can understand that. 
 

I completely agree than any company that hires illegals needs to be harshly penalized to stop it. (But that will never happen because the US loves slave labor - especially big Ag companies like Del Monte) 

So accept and releasing with anklets too harsh for illegals?

 

 

Customs is processing, not a wall. The airport "wall" is about flight security and not immigration. We should also process anyone who wants to cross through a land border. If you let everyone cross, you don't need a wall. Most everyone will go through customs.  Plus, let's not pretend like desperate immigrants from Asia don't climb that alleged virtual "wall" too. Human trafficking is still a widespread occurrence, and open entry would put a stop to that just like it would desert border crossings. And since these massive trafficking and coyote operations won't exist, it will also be more difficult for criminals to enter who we actually want to exclude. There will be nobody for them to blend in with. 

And for people who are anti-immigrant based on racism, European immigration would increase substantially. The desperate already come. The non-desperate don't. Plus, Melania shouldn't have had to marry Donald in order to stick around. And she shouldn't have had to be a "model" either. 

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American immigration has always primarily been the unwashed masses. 90 percent of us white people came from poor people too. My ancestors left squalor in England. 
But that being said, immigration seems unbalanced toward the unskilled side because we restrict the hell out of educated immigrants.  This open door policy would also kill the H1B program. And unlike the unskilled labor immigrants, educated immigrants arent coming illegally if they are denied visas since they have some options in their home countries.  It has also prevented people on student visas from staying and working after graduating because work visas can be hard to come by. This may more than offset an increase in unskilled immigrants, who quite frankly, have largely been coming anyway if they want to come. 
We should already let in any doctor or engineer that wants to come. But we don't even come close to doing that.   But we do already let in pretty much anyone who wants to be a dishwasher. 

The J1 program for non-citizen physicians is a complete hotass bureaucratic mess.

Like, running a ‚ÄúHelp Wanted‚ÄĚ ad for a physician? In 3 actual newspapers??? For 21 days????

Such bullshittery.
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1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Have I said anything about who should shoulder the burden of the costs ? Let's jump to conclusions whenever possible. How about we reign in some of the money we send over seas ? 

And why is it always hey's just raise taxes ?  How about we handle our shit here at home with our own actual citizens before adding to the over burdened, bloated system now.

More money come in, the more I make. Look at all this money I got to use to spend! Oh no! I need to make more money since I spent it all!

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12 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

It’s not a little difference at all, especially for stuff that’s super important.

A line forms at Aaron Franklin’s and people at the back wait a lot longer for their brisket. How long is dependent on how early you get there and how many other people get there. 
 

A wait time is ‚Äúthe this¬†track¬†is closed to joggers before 7 AM.‚Ä̬†¬†Access is predictable¬†and based on a rule, not on what other people do or some sort of scarcity in what you want.¬†
 

People who are waiting ‚Äúin line‚ÄĚ for citizenship are for the most part waiting a statutory 5 years, 3 years depending on their residency¬†etc and once that passes you submit paperwork and will be approved no matter how many other people are also doing that. Of course bureaucratic backlogs build up to process that paperwork¬†but that‚Äôs not the primary reason people are waiting and it‚Äôs far less impactful that the statutory waiting time. Which is why ‚Äúif you came illegally you go to the back of the line‚ÄĚ is mostly meaningless.‚ÄĚ

Eh I don‚Äôt buy it. But fine call it a ‚Äúwait time‚ÄĚ.¬†your wait time for path to citizenship¬†if you came here illegally starts when you submit your paperwork correctly and it is accepted rather than getting amnesty and skipping the ‚Äúwait time‚ÄĚ

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47 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Eh I don‚Äôt buy it. But fine call it a ‚Äúwait time‚ÄĚ.¬†your wait time for path to citizenship¬†if you came here illegally starts when you submit your paperwork correctly and it is accepted rather than getting amnesty and skipping the ‚Äúwait time‚ÄĚ

Let me bring it down further:

Line: A kindergarten class is arranged in alphabetical order and waits to be served at the lunch room. Maybe the green jello is gone by the time Villarreal gets to the front.

Wait Time:  Your kindergartner gets his ice cream after dinner and a bath, not when he gets in the door. But the ice cream is coming and he is getting it that evening regardless of other siblings, friends, etc. 
 

There’s a difference between the two, and that has big implications for being eligible for an applying for citizenship or LPR status. Someone applying for LPR based on having a brother in the US really does wait in line for an immigrant visa number to be available to him. That time fluctuates based on where he’s from, how many people are in front, etc. 

 

People waiting to file their citizenship application are just watching the clock, for residency requirements to be fulfilled.

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The issue of illegal immigration is red meat for the masses.  The solution is to simply fine the companies that ADVERTISE and/or EMPLOY them jobs here in America.  

Republicans love illegal immigrants, cheap labor that cannot vote.  The poors don't like them because they drive the price for labor down.   More expensive labor will not necessarily drive prices up, but it could mean executives have fewer golden toilets if a competitor can offer the same widgets and suffer only a silver toilet in which to defecate.  

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3 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Have I said anything about who should shoulder the burden of the costs ? Let's jump to conclusions whenever possible. How about we reign in some of the money we send over seas ? 

And why is it always hey let's just raise taxes ?  How about we handle our shit here at home with our own actual citizens before adding to the over burdened, bloated system now.

A nonsense answer full of half-baked thoughts and wishes.  Very on brand for you.  

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3 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

A nonsense answer full of half-baked thoughts and wishes.  Very on brand for you.  

A worthy response to your BS question, kick the can down the road solution...  see how it's done ?  Love your solution, heeeeey let's just take more money from people.

 Yes yes a very strong, and thoughtful concept.

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3 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

Customs is processing, not a wall. The airport "wall" is about flight security and not immigration. We should also process anyone who wants to cross through a land border. If you let everyone cross, you don't need a wall. Most everyone will go through customs.  Plus, let's not pretend like desperate immigrants from Asia don't climb that alleged virtual "wall" too. Human trafficking is still a widespread occurrence, and open entry would put a stop to that just like it would desert border crossings. And since these massive trafficking and coyote operations won't exist, it will also be more difficult for criminals to enter who we actually want to exclude. There will be nobody for them to blend in with. 

And for people who are anti-immigrant based on racism, European immigration would increase substantially. The desperate already come. The non-desperate don't. Plus, Melania shouldn't have had to marry Donald in order to stick around. And she shouldn't have had to be a "model" either. 

Okay, so why don’t we big a big fucking customs center for processing people. Can we not do that? 

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4 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Okay, so why don’t we big a big fucking customs center for processing people. Can we not do that? 

We already have that. The issue is that desperate people who know they won't be allowed entry aren't gonna go to a port of entry. They are going to enter illegally, wall or no wall. If you want them to go through customs and be registered, you need to make legal entry possible. Hell, you could even charge them 3 or 4 grand to enter if you wanted to. That's about what they pay coyotes now.  

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57 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

A worthy response to your BS question, kick the can down the road solution...  see how it's done ?  Love your solution, heeeeey let's just take more money from people.

 Yes yes a very strong, and thoughtful concept.

Where is your evidence that your parade of horribles has happened or will happen? See my previous post to you in this thread. 

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2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Let me bring it down further:

Line: A kindergarten class is arranged in alphabetical order and waits to be served at the lunch room. Maybe the green jello is gone by the time Villarreal gets to the front.

Wait Time:  Your kindergartner gets his ice cream after dinner and a bath, not when he gets in the door. But the ice cream is coming and he is getting it that evening regardless of other siblings, friends, etc. 
 

There’s a difference between the two, and that has big implications for being eligible for an applying for citizenship or LPR status. Someone applying for LPR based on having a brother in the US really does wait in line for an immigrant visa number to be available to him. That time fluctuates based on where he’s from, how many people are in front, etc. 

 

People waiting to file their citizenship application are just watching the clock, for residency requirements to be fulfilled.

For your analogy to work the undocumenteds would have to be members of the kindergarten class. They are not. The kindergarten class would be people who followed the rules to get here

 

the line or wait list or whatever you want to call it is to get accepted into the kindergarten 

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2 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

For your analogy to work the undocumenteds would have to be members of the kindergarten class. They are not. The kindergarten class would be people who followed the rules to get here

 

the line or wait list or whatever you want to call it is to get accepted into the kindergarten 

I go back to this: why do we have a line at all? What purpose does it serve? The fact is that the country is not a kindergarten class. It isn't full or in any danger of being full. In fact, people are coming here already and working despite having no citizenship or other legal right to be here. We have a demand for labor, they have a supply. Why exactly are we artificially constricting that market? 

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18 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

We already have that. The issue is that desperate people who know they won't be allowed entry aren't gonna go to a port of entry. They are going to enter illegally, wall or no wall. If you want them to go through customs and be registered, you need to make legal entry possible. Hell, you could even charge them 3 or 4 grand to enter if you wanted to. That's about what they pay coyotes now.  

This.  We're dealing with human beings, doing what human beings do.  Let's put it in comparative terms.

War on drugs -- FAILED.  Why?  People wanna get high.  Deeply and desperately.  So, they will always find a way.  Simply drawing a line in the sand and enacting strict prohibition was doomed to fail.

Prohibition of alcohol -- FAILED.  All the same reasons as the WOD failed.

Prohibition of prostitution -- been trying this for centuries, FAILED.  Because undefeated, etc.

Prohibition on desperate people looking for a better life across a river -- FAILED.  Because people, and desperate, and basic human motivations and needs.

If you want to have better CONTROL over those things, you enact mechanisms by which they are allowed, but regulated.  You can even enact measures that defray any financial impacts of same (e.g., charging a fee to guest workers, make full time work and no government assistance a condition of a work permit, make the permit only for the worker, not bringing his whole family, etc.)

Prohibition, and "WALL!" are not only stupid, they are COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE to the goals we SAY we want to achieve.

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4 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

I just don’t think it’s fair we have a wall of security, fingerprinting, searching, questioning at the airport for non-border countries and not one for border countries. Seems hypocritical. Logically it doesn’t make sense to my brain. If we can do the airport thing, why can’t we do the border thing? 

I guess it comes down to cost. I can understand that. 
 

I completely agree than any company that hires illegals needs to be harshly penalized to stop it. (But that will never happen because the US loves slave labor - especially big Ag companies like Del Monte) 

So accept and releasing with anklets too harsh for illegals?

 

 

$15 minimum wage is a strong incentive to hire illegal labor. 

Edited by ChickenSandwich
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1 minute ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Or make every Democrat sponsor a family and provide for their welfare. 

light as a feather; stiff as a board

the craft gifs Page 11 | WiffleGif

Just now, ChickenSandwich said:

$15 minimum wage is a strong incentive to hire illegal labor. 

We have plenty of prison space for those who choose the unwise practice of labor arbitrage within the United States.

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2 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Or make every Democrat sponsor a family and provide for their welfare. 

We already sponsor pretty much every red state including yours. What's a few more people?

And my old church does exactly that. And I continue to donate to it in spite of the fact that I'm an atheist now.  Its sad that mainline churches are dying off in favor of selfish bullshit churches.

It is also nice that Republicans like yourself have dropped the compassionate charade. Doesn't it feel good that you don't even have to pretend to care about other people anymore?  

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10 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

light as a feather; stiff as a board

the craft gifs Page 11 | WiffleGif

We have plenty of prison space for those who choose the unwise practice of labor arbitrage within the United States.

Conservatives love that welfare though. They gladly pay 31k per inmate per year on average to provide food, shelter, and clothing.

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1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

I go back to this: why do we have a line at all? What purpose does it serve? The fact is that the country is not a kindergarten class. It isn't full or in any danger of being full. In fact, people are coming here already and working despite having no citizenship or other legal right to be here. We have a demand for labor, they have a supply. Why exactly are we artificially constricting that market? 

I’m with you 

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5 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

How about we handle our shit here at home with our own actual citizens

Man that would be great. When are the republicans going to roll out a plan to do that?

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1 hour ago, FondrenRoad said:

We already sponsor pretty much every red state including yours. What's a few more people?

And my old church does exactly that. And I continue to donate to it in spite of the fact that I'm an atheist now.  Its sad that mainline churches are dying off in favor of selfish bullshit churches.

It is also nice that Republicans like yourself have dropped the compassionate charade. Doesn't it feel good that you don't even have to pretend to care about other people anymore?  

Apparently you have dropped the charade of any compassion for our working class and lower socioeconomic groups. Unlimited completion for resources and tax dollars really serves them well. 
 

And you never will admit that there is a point of saturation that results in negative consequences for Americans. It‚Äôs always ‚Äúeveryone‚ÄĚ which is completely unsustainable.¬†
 

Danish Prime Minister (Social Democrat) today announced goal of zero asylum seekers. "We must make sure that not too many people come to our country, otherwise our cohesive force cannot exist. It is already challenged." https://nyheder.tv2.dk/politik/2021-01-22-mette-frederiksen-malet-er-nul-asylansogere-til-danmark…

https://nyheder.tv2.dk/politik/2021-01-22-mette-frederiksen-malet-er-nul-asylansogere-til-danmark

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1 hour ago, FondrenRoad said:

We already sponsor pretty much every red state including yours. What's a few more people?

Great point. We should redistribute corporations that do not rely on natural geographic location or natural resources to other states to distribute the those tax dollars equitably. Same for millionaires and billionaires that just want to live in the Bu. Equity. 
 

 

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17 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Apparently you have dropped the charade of any compassion for our working class and lower socioeconomic groups. Unlimited completion for resources and tax dollars really serves them well. 
 

And you never will admit that there is a point of saturation that results in negative consequences for Americans. It‚Äôs always ‚Äúeveryone‚ÄĚ which is completely unsustainable.¬†
 

Danish Prime Minister (Social Democrat) today announced goal of zero asylum seekers. "We must make sure that not too many people come to our country, otherwise our cohesive force cannot exist. It is already challenged." https://nyheder.tv2.dk/politik/2021-01-22-mette-frederiksen-malet-er-nul-asylansogere-til-danmark…

https://nyheder.tv2.dk/politik/2021-01-22-mette-frederiksen-malet-er-nul-asylansogere-til-danmark

Lol. I support a higher minimum wage, a robust welfare system, and I donate my time and money to help our lower socioeconomic groups.  I also recognize that these groups aren't competing for jobs with immigrant labor. You would too if you ever spoke to any of them.

And are you really comparing Denmark with the USA?  Our landmass can support more than a billion people without breaking a sweat. 

Of course, Denmark can handle some immigration too, but they're racist. The prime minister doesn't even make a resource competition argument. Instead, the openly racist argument "our cohesive force cannot exist" was made.  

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46 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Great point. We should redistribute corporations that do not rely on natural geographic location or natural resources to other states to distribute the those tax dollars equitably. Same for millionaires and billionaires that just want to live in the Bu. Equity. 
 

 

wtf GIF

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50 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Lol. I support a higher minimum wage, a robust welfare system, and I donate my time and money to help our lower socioeconomic groups.  I also recognize that these groups aren't competing for jobs with immigrant labor. You would too if you ever spoke to any of them.

 

Why? Minimum wages hurt the less unfortunate already, so now they live off the government teet since they are too expensive. That isn't compassion to use force to help people. 

 

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/feb/15/the-15-minimum-wage-would-most-hurt-the-people-its/

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Why? Minimum wages hurt the less unfortunate already, so now they live off the government teet since they are too expensive. That isn't compassion to use force to help people. 
 
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/feb/15/the-15-minimum-wage-would-most-hurt-the-people-its/

Dude....just....dude.

Broaden your sourcing just a TINY bit, and you’ll see that’s utter bullshit.
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17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


Dude....just....dude.

Broaden your sourcing just a TINY bit, and you’ll see that’s utter bullshit.

Dude.... Just come in with the sources. I'm using WaPo (opinion piece) as a publisher. Not known to be far right. 

Or in the wise paraphrased words of @blacklab "why don't you just make the minimum wage a million?!"

Edited by workswithseed
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Dude.... Just come in with the sources. I'm using WaPo (opinion piece) as a publisher. Not known to be far right. 
Or in the wise paraphrased words of [mention=3]blacklab[/mention] "why don't you just make the minimum wage a million?!"

Dude....no. You didn’t cite WAPO. You cited the Washington TIMES. There’s umm....a huge difference.

Check out an Economist analysis. It’ll do you good.
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11 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Dude.... Just come in with the sources. I'm using WaPo (opinion piece) as a publisher. Not known to be far right. 

Or in the wise paraphrased words of @blacklab "why don't you just make the minimum wage a million?!"

Uhhhhhhhhh. You can’t really be this oblivious, can you?

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8 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Paywalled

 

from before paywall

Empirical work assembled over the past three decades has demonstrated that modest increases in the minimum wage typically have, at most, small negative effects on employment.

 

TIL a 100+ % increase in MW is ‚Äúmodest‚ÄĚ

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33 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Uhhhhhhhhh. You can’t really be this oblivious, can you?

I mean you never told me how it was wrong that the government has monopoly on things and it would be bad that they could turn off the spigot.

So why would I understand what you mean by what you're saying here.

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@Incredulity

CBO

From 2021 to 2031, the cumulative pay of affected people would increase, on net, by
$333 billion‚ÄĒan increased labor cost for firms considerably larger than the net effect on the budget deficit during that period.¬†

(Deficit increase projected at 50+B.)

 

That net increase would result from higher pay ($509 billion) for people who were employed at higher hourly wages under the bill, offset by lower pay ($175 billion) because of reduced employment under the bill.

 

Unemployment projected to rise 0.9% But nearly a million citizens would earn enough to rise from poverty.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:


Dude....just....dude.

Broaden your sourcing just a TINY bit, and you’ll see that’s utter bullshit.

You realize this is tahoe jr.  right?

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