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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Dude - the league financials over the past 20 years or whatever don't matter. Like they literally don't fucking matter at all. 

Do you understand how CBAs work?

CBA doesn't change the starting place of league revenues/ profits.  The money has to exist first.

 

Or maybe the shirts are some weird support of paying back the NBA?

Edited by Iceman
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Posted
4 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Then pay them what they are owed after the owners are made whole for keeping the league running at a loss forever. 
 

Did they add WNBA to the NBA2k games as an excuse to divert some of the profits to women? I can’t imagine more than 5 people bought those games to play WNBA mode. 

If you can customize the players’ ratings I guarantee you kids are playing as them. If you’ve got sons watch them play fortnight online with their friends. Half the time are playing as female skins or even animal female skins. 

Posted

Ultimately it doesn’t matter to us and it shouldn’t. Whether napheesa collier gets the money or the owner of the Dream doesn’t impact my day.  But the players argument is very entitled and tone deaf.   You’re the product that has been losing money eh for 25 years but you think you’ve been getting the short end this whole time?  Add in the fee a ct that some of the players and fans loathe the reason why they’re even in this situation makes it pretty easy to root against them 

Posted
58 minutes ago, Iceman said:

The money has to exist first.

The money does exist. They aren't negotiating based on what the W pulled in revenue-wise in 2009. 

I don't know what the numbers are or are going to be but they are exponentially increasing and the players deserve to negotiate a good deal for themselves. 

The whole "the league loses money" thing is fucking retarded, anyway. Businesses lose money and gain revenue and valuation all the time. They wouldn't be selling expansion franchise for 9 figures if it was a shitty business to get into. 

The fact that there are pages upon pages of WNBA discussion here when a few years ago it was maybe a handful of posts every once in awhile should signal to everyone that it is a business quickly growing in the right direction. 

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Posted
2 hours ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

That's an incredibly shitty, and not true, analogy.

A more accurate analogy would be a C-list actor on a low budget TV show asking for a raise after the show he's on gets syndicated and the revenues go up 400% overnight.

WNBA players get anywhere between 9% and 20% of league revenue (depending on source).  NBA players get 50% (as do MLB, NFL players get 48%).  It is my understanding that WNBA players are asking for the similar % of revenue as these other leagues.  Obviously their salaries will be much lower - but they wound be earning the same % as their NBA counterparts.

 

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I think the difference in total revenue, and more accurately the revenue/expense ratio, is what drives the lower comp%.  One would think that expenses will be more static so as revenue increases, a larger share should be available for salary. 
 

unless things like travel and arena rental are somehow subsidized or offered at a discounted rate, which will go away as revenue can cover it. 

 

1 hour ago, boilerhorn said:

The NFL has existed for over 100 years.  The NBA has been around for 75 years.    As recently as the early-to-mid 1980s, some NFL players had offseason jobs to supplement their pay.  Today, the average NFL player makes $3.2mm.  In 1985 it was $160k.  Players claimed it was 28% of revenue; owners claimed it was 44%.  Regardless, they NFL was making a profit.

Right now, the WNBA is 27 years old and (allegedly) loses $40mm on $200mm in revenue (2023).  Revenue is clearly rising, as it was $102mm in 2019.  In 2019, they were paid around 17% of league revenue and now around 10%.  When costs are 120% of revenue, it is difficult to justify giving everyone a raise, but (as already noted before) we really do not know how the WNBA manages its P&L.

NBA's CBA has players at 49%-51% of BRI (Basketball Related Income).  WNBA should strive for that.  The real problem is how is "income" calculated?  Is it gross?  Is it net?  If net, they get nothing.  The WNBAPA will need a really capable negotiator and financier on their side for the next few rounds of CBA negotiations.  And clarity in how they report and manage P&L.

 

Pato’s response in the middle quote was the answer. Businesses have to recover overhead and operating expenses. The more profitable a league is, the higher the % will go to the players. WNBA has been losing money at their current salary range and they want more???

Posted
1 hour ago, Iceman said:

CBA doesn't change the starting place of league revenues/ profits.  The money has to exist first.

 

Or maybe the shirts are some weird support of paying back the NBA?

I want these women to get paid. The league is on the precipice of being financially solvent for the first time in its three decade history. The players need to remember that in order to get substantially more money in their contracts they have to e to generate more revenue. The old heads on their way out of the league will grumble that they never got what they deserved, but honestly I do not care. This league is so close to better paydays, but they still have to see an uptick in revenue far past the break even point before they get paid.

  • Like 1
Posted
30 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

The old heads on their way out of the league will grumble that they never got what they deserved, but honestly I do not care

All the men’s sports leagues went through these same growing pains. 

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Posted
Just now, Pato del Muerto said:

All the men’s sports leagues went through these same growing pains. 

Well for sure they did. Elgin Baylor spent weekends serving his country while playing. Guys made very little and worked in the off-season in regular jobs in football and basketball especially.
 

Something that I live by in life is that I hope I do something to make the lives of people and generations I will not be alive to see, better. Some of these players need to adjust their thinking to something similar. They may not reap a financial windfall, but they are laying the groundwork for future generations of players and perhaps revenue growth will help them in their later years with a better pension and healthcare. The instant gratification mindset never leads to long-term stability.

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Posted
1 hour ago, ztejas said:

The money does exist. They aren't negotiating based on what the W pulled in revenue-wise in 2009. 

I don't know what the numbers are or are going to be but they are exponentially increasing and the players deserve to negotiate a good deal for themselves. 

The whole "the league loses money" thing is fucking retarded, anyway. Businesses lose money and gain revenue and valuation all the time. They wouldn't be selling expansion franchise for 9 figures if it was a shitty business to get into. 

The fact that there are pages upon pages of WNBA discussion here when a few years ago it was maybe a handful of posts every once in awhile should signal to everyone that it is a business quickly growing in the right direction. 

Those investments are little to no risk when the NBA will back the W and their losses no matter what. 
 

Don’t think anyone would complain about the WNBA eating what it kills and if they can finish the season in the black for the first time in their history the players deserve to share in that to some degree. 
 

They would have far leas backlash if they focused on what they have earned and grown the last five years instead of the line that they are “owed” anything. It’s simply tone deaf. They make more than the median US salary for about 4 months of work. Those with endorsements make far more. 
 

Their entire PR apparatus needs to be fired and restarted from scratch. 

Posted
1 minute ago, ChickenSandwich said:

They would have far leas backlash if they focused on what they have earned and grown the last five years instead of the line that they are “owed” anything. It’s simply tone deaf. They make more than the median US salary for about 4 months of work. Those with endorsements make far more. 
 

Their entire PR apparatus needs to be fired and restarted from scratch. 

I mean yeah dude you're preaching to the choir. 

Posted
2 hours ago, Underdog said:

I may be in the minority here but I don’t want to see women dunking on the regular. 

The lack of the dunk or the presence thereof is not a factor for me.

 

Posted
1 hour ago, Iceman said:

The lack of the dunk or the presence thereof is not a factor for me.

 

It would be nice to see from time to time I suppose.  I neither expect nor want them to be as athletic as men generally

Posted
4 hours ago, Iceman said:

The lack of the dunk or the presence thereof is not a factor for me.

 

Its the lack of athleticism that is so jarring to me. When you are used to seeing NBA caliber athletes racing up and down the court with 3X the ball handling capabilities (for the most part) and the game played above the rim, its impossible for me to pay attention to the slow plodding drafthorses in the WNBA.  I turned on the all star game for about 5 minutes in the 3rd qtr last night and the only shots that were made were layups (and they missed a few of those). Every mid-range and three was bricked. Granted its an allstar game, and even the mens version sucks due to effort, but the WNBA is basically still a layup drill. I don't know if its still the case, but a few weeks ago I checked stats and like 15 of the top 50 scorers in the WNBA had a FG% under 40%. In the NBA last regular season, there were zero players in the top 50 shooting under 40%. The problem is far too many of them play a version of basketball that is unappealing.  

  • Like 2
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, d2o said:

 

 

 

I am so glad she chimed in with that. Perhaps off the top the NBA can recoup some of their investment. Let’s give them back 60 million which is five years worth of financial support. Now split the money from there. 
 

The NBA wouldn’t do that because it’s a pittance compared to what they haul in, but thinking all of a sudden these players will just get to take in 200 million when only one player is getting them attention right now is silly. Bueckers will be her own cash cow for the league soon enough, but not yet. The team owners can basically let them hold out and strike if they want. They are not in any kind of position to be making demands yet. Not that these women understand they need to have long-term thinking. I expect them to make ridiculous demands, go on strike and then come back to an owner-friendly deal due to their lack of planning this stuff out for the long-haul.

Edited by UpperWestside
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, d2o said:

 

 

 

Is she going to pretend that WNBA salaries haven't increased since 1997? A quick google search shows that the average salary has increased from $28K in the first year to $125K in 2025, so I'm not sure what her point is with that comment. Another interesting data point is that google tells me the NBA first turned a profit in 1971. In 1970 the average NBA salary (35K) was 4X the average salary for the US worker. In 2025 the average WNBA salary is $125K which is about 2X the average US salary. BUT the men were playing 82 games a season and the women are only playing half of that. those extra 40+ games translates into more revenue. Its likely they are gonna have to up the workload. I don't know if that is a sticking point for them or not. Do the networks want 2X the inventory? 

Everyone knows the women are going to get a raise with the next CBA agreement, the only question is how much. The shirts are simply a ploy to get attention and try and win the public favor on their side. Because we all know a raise is coming, and nobody has any clue about the league financials( how much is lost, if any, AND who is actually losing the money) its near impossible to know if the players are too far out over their skis in negotiations. As far as I can tell neither side has leaked specific data points, only that they aren't close. I'm in it for the trainwreck at this point, so I can only hope they choose to strike, just for the lulz. But eventually all the leverage is with the owners(it always is), so a deal will get done before the players starve to death. 

Edited by Blotto
Posted
1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

That’s the big thing- how does work stoppage hurt the owners?

meanwhile, how many of these women will be hurting financially pretty quickly if they aren’t getting paid by their team?

These women all have overseas options. Many of those teams pay better than the WNBA and include benefits such as housing and travel allowances.  
 

Always cracks me up when fans side with the billionaire owners over those ‘selfish’ players. 

Posted
11 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

These women all have overseas options. Many of those teams pay better than the WNBA and include benefits such as housing and travel allowances.  
 

Always cracks me up when fans side with the billionaire owners over those ‘selfish’ players. 

They should take them if they’re getting hosed over here.  

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