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Posted
20 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Otherwise, the question is HOW are you going to appeal to the working class. 

Blame billionaires, including the Guardians Of Pedophiles leadership who are getting richer while we all suffer (and using that money to sexually enslave children), and promise them free pie-in-the-sky shit.

There.  Done.  We win the presidential race popular vote by 3-5% with that plan.

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Posted
55 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

A huge issue facing the Democratic party is that, like yourself with Palestine, many of their voters care deeply and passionately about a singular issue, to the point that it is their North Star politically.  On a human level, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this, to be clear, and in theory political parties should be an amalgamation of "north stars" broadly united towards a common goal.

Where we run into problems is that in the current state of America, the North Star political issue to 95% of Republicans is "own the libs."  That's it.  When winning is the ultimate shared goal, it makes it much easier for folks from different walks of life to come together and get behind ideas that might not fully align with their core belief system.

If they want to stop the onslaught of the country by the current party in power, Democrats will either 1) need to focus on aligning the entire coalition behind "winning" as the primary goal or 2) somehow break the "own the libs" trance that Fox News has on Republican voters.

I know which one I think is easier to achieve.

Busy but I appreciate your perspective.

Posted
51 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I think the issue is that, as @Hank Kingsley has pointed out, this isn’t a strategy. In the first instance, there aren’t enough poor and blue collar Americans to win national elections. 

I'll stop now since you seem to be communicating with multiple people and I seem to be expected to go beyond the four corners of your posts.  I don't think there are enough trans people to win a national election either. I think any political party should stand for the rights of the poor, and blue collar, and the oppressed including trans people.  

I think that very much is a strategy.   Much less a requirement of the Constitution. 

Posted
1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Blame billionaires, including the Guardians Of Pedophiles leadership who are getting richer while we all suffer (and using that money to sexually enslave children), and promise them free pie-in-the-sky shit.

There.  Done.  We win the presidential race popular vote by 3-5% with that plan.

And you stay in power, and shed the reputation of being do-nothing jagoffs, by actually delivering on that stuff. Rain hell on anyone who stands in your way. Don't just tweet mean things at them.

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Posted
5 hours ago, chainsaw said:

Sizzle is funny tweets, press conferences, and long-ass filibusters.

Steak is results. Confirming corrupt judges, carrying out mass deportations, destroying the environment.

Right now, only one party is getting results for its base, and it sure as fuck isn't the Dems. And it hasn't been for a long time.

Even when they had all 3 branches they never rammed anything down the throats of republicans. 

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Posted
5 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Because he is in NYC.

I agree that they share anger and the struggle, but I disagree that the working class share common experiences and values. This country is way too big, with completely different lifestyles and surroundings. 

 

Maybe working class isn’t the right word I should use but I think the more appropriate word is the average person. 

Posted
4 hours ago, LCHorn said:

I don't find him particularly charismatic so I think Colorado governor is his ceiling, but I've listened to Jared Polis talk about this and he advocates steering everything back to household economics. 

They ask you about bathrooms and trans rights, you respond about filling potholes and making sure people can work all day and have enough money to pay their rent and be able to relax when the work day is over.  That's not throwing the trans community under the bus, it's refocusing attention away from the vulnerable and to the area that survey respondents say is the most neglected.  

This is me, not Polis, but I'd say "Gaza is a long way from here, it's a terrible situation and I can't fix it.  What I can do is work towards making sure you have enough money in your paycheck to take care of your family, protect access to the medical care you need and make sure we're keeping your family safe."  

This this this. And more of this. You don’t have to abandon the hem and no one has said to. But you do need to counter their attack or misdirect. 

Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, safe sex said:

Sure, but that's not what everyone else does. They just flat out agree with the right's stance on trans kids and act like it's common sense.

Then they’re wrong, especially on campaign trails. It is common sense you shouldn’t be giving kids who aren’t old enough to consent hormone blockers and shit like that. Or that biological males shouldn’t be competing with women in sports, it’s just a scientific fact that it’s unfair. 

Edited by BurntOrange&White
Posted
3 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

One thing the Democrats need to do across the board is implement some message discipline and demand that their talking heads eliminate criticism of “America” or “the country” or different systems and instead make every critique as personal and targeted as they can. This is something the GOP does very effectively.

The GOP never talks about the need for “America” to reckon with its failings. They say awful things about America, but blame the lib cucks.  Dems can do this too.

Instead of “America must atone for its sins of racism and discrimination” try “Neanderthal assholes are ruining our beautiful country with their racism.”  The first bit leads you into a fruitless debate about whether America is really a racist country and will alienate people who might otherwise vote for you.  The second only alienates self-identified Neanderthal racists and that small group isn’t voting for you anyway.

Instead of a critique of “capitalism,” try attacking “greedy billionaires who are ruining markets.” 

You can then make the same proposals for solutions, it’s all just targeted at groups that most voters don’t like or identify with. 
 

I think some Dems are getting better about this but still fall short because it’s intellectually dishonest (a bit) and confrontational.  But whatever, we are trying to win. It’s very crafty because it basically allows most people to tell themselves they aren’t part of the problem set you’re talking about.  No one wants to feel called out by an elected leader. 

 

Make Stephen miller their Nancy Pelosi. Put his nazi ass on blast. Make everyone associated with him a nazi. Make Trump a Nazi. 

Posted
37 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Then they’re wrong, especially on campaign trails. It is common sense you shouldn’t be giving kids who aren’t old enough to consent hormone blockers and shit like that. Or that biological males shouldn’t be competing with women in sports, it’s just a scientific fact that it’s unfair. 

Yes and children shouldn't have litterboxes in classrooms, of course! Any other fringe or non issues that have been fabricated by the right? 

We gotta do something about those chemtrails making everyone gay too!!!

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Yes and children shouldn't have litterboxes in classrooms, of course! Any other fringe or non issues that have been fabricated by the right? 

We gotta do something about those chemtrails making everyone gay too!!!

Sure, just keep giving more ammunition. Men in women’s sports and hormone blockers in children aren’t made up shit. Are they super wide spread, no. But there are cases of it and it’s an easy attack because the average person disagrees with both. 

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Posted
9 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Sure, just keep giving more ammunition. Men in women’s sports and hormone blockers in children aren’t made up shit. Are they super wide spread, no. But there are cases of it and it’s an easy attack because the average person disagrees with both. 

It's fucking wild that a handful of singleton cases is enough to convince you that you should treat millions of Americans like subhumans. By your logic, we should have never had a civil rights movement either. The average person disagreed with abolition, or something too amirite?

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Posted
1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Even when they had all 3 branches they never rammed anything down the throats of republicans. 

They didn't have the votes.

Thank you, West Virginia and Arizona.

Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Captainant said:

It's fucking wild that a handful of singleton cases is enough to convince you that you should treat millions of Americans like subhumans. By your logic, we should have never had a civil rights movement either. The average person disagreed with abolition, or something too amirite?

It’s amazing that you say I’m saying to treat them like subhumans, I’m not. I’m suggesting taking away ammo from the  other side. And yes I along with most of the average people believe that biological males shouldn’t be competing in sports vs women. It’s basic a physiological anatomy that’s it’s unfair. Is what it is but that doesn’t mean they’re being treated like subhumans. Just compete vs your biological gender.
 

Your type of response is exactly why the Democratic Party is where it’s currently at. 

Edited by BurntOrange&White
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Posted
10 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

They didn't have the votes.

Brandon was too weak to go scorched earth on those motherfuckers. A strong president would've made their lives a living hell until the bill passed.

Posted
4 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

It’s amazing that you say I’m saying to treat them like subhumans, I’m not. I’m suggesting taking away ammo from the  other side. And yes I along with most of the average people believe that biological males shouldn’t be competing in sports vs women. It’s basic a physiological anatomy that’s it’s unfair. Is what it is but that doesn’t mean they’re being treated like subhumans. Just compete vs your biological gender. 

Nobody but the republicans are making this an issue. Where it does happen it's a singleton case that is an exception. Making a rule to chase edge cases is dog shit systems management. 

Like, can you name an instance of it happening in your school district? Or in any way that has actually directly impinged upon your life in a non-rhetorical way?

What I'm saying is you're buying into and propagating feels>realz and doing the fascists work for them by complying in advance.

Posted
Just now, Captainant said:

Like, what the fuck do you think will happen after they finish off trans folks? Call it a day?

 

Historically speaking, they fuckin don't.

What do you think will happen if democrats continue to lose branches of government? They’re gone anyway. Have to win to protect, dumbass. 

Posted
3 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

What do you think will happen if democrats continue to lose branches of government? They’re gone anyway. Have to win to protect, dumbass. 

You're right, appeasing the fascists will surely work

Posted
9 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Who said appease to them? @LCHorn literally laid out the perfect strategy. 

Well you're using their bad faith arguments, so it wasn't clear you meant what LChorn had posted. I was getting more of a "let's just give him Poland and they'll be happy" vibe

Posted
2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Well you're using their bad faith arguments, so it wasn't clear you meant what LChorn had posted. I was getting more of a "let's just give him Poland and they'll be happy" vibe

I used those as examples of shit that democrats need to combat. 

Posted
15 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I used those as examples of shit that democrats need to combat. 

You don't "combat" it by retreating the position and rhetorically saying "yeah you're right". 

I don't disagree that you should redirect to real issues though. But that doesn't mean you #bothsides and say their fake issue is real just to get them on your side. That's still pushing the Overton window farther right.

Posted
9 minutes ago, Captainant said:

You don't "combat" it by retreating the position and rhetorically saying "yeah you're right". 

I don't disagree that you should redirect to real issues though. But that doesn't mean you #bothsides and say their fake issue is real just to get them on your side. That's still pushing the Overton window farther right.

You’re not both siding anything

Posted
50 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Like, can you name an instance of it happening in your school district? Or in any way that has actually directly impinged upon your life in a non-rhetorical way?

 

Now hold school shootings to the same standard.  My ISD hasn’t had one yet, but they are still a big fucking issue to me.

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Posted

Democrats and democracy are fucked anyway, so might as well not come down on the side of evil and agree with GOP hysterics meant to further marginalize minority groups. Just going to have to do right by our neighbors until the bloody end, if need be.

The only way out of this is a near total collapse of the established order. The electorate is hopelessly addicted to an integrated social and legacy media monster fully weaponized by our tech oligarchs to ensure a government friendly to their every whim, and willing to shovel tax dollars into their pockets. And there's no allied western liberal army crossing an ocean to save us from ourselves.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Now hold school shootings to the same standard.  My ISD hasn’t had one yet, but they are still a big fucking issue to me.

My HS had a couple of gun scares and full campus lockdowns from shootings or home invasions near the HS. And, a gunshot wound is a rather more serious proposition than possibly losing in an athletic event in the one in ten thousand chance a trans person is competing at all.

But if to you school shootings and trans people competing in sports are equally dangerous to students... I simply cannot agree that both sides are the same

Edited by Captainant
Posted
Just now, VABuckeye said:

all I see is a giant pissing contest. 

Motto worthy.

1 minute ago, VABuckeye said:

Damn. I came into this thread to find peoples thoughts on the 2028 nominee and all I see is a giant pissing contest. 

It's Newsome way ahead of the pack at this point.

Posted
7 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

These people hear the world "socialist" and lose their fucking minds. 

This word needs to be reclaimed as being good. The association with Nazi Germany needs to end. You cannot keep allowing these clowns in the Pedo Party to dictate things. Shying away from the use of the word is not a good thing. 

Posted
Just now, UpperWestside said:

This word needs to be reclaimed as being good. The association with Nazi Germany needs to end. You cannot keep allowing these clowns in the Pedo Party to dictate things. Shying away from the use of the word is not a good thing. 

Its association with the Soviet Union is what really made the word toxic. That and the indestructible American idea that it's the socialists (among others) that are keeping you from a life of fame and luxury, not their own stupidity and laziness.

I'm gonna just keep harping on it. Billionaires own the thing that binds our culture together. Until they totally fuck everything all the way up (and historically that always happens at some point), nothing changes.

Posted
6 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

This word needs to be reclaimed as being good. The association with Nazi Germany needs to end. You cannot keep allowing these clowns in the Pedo Party to dictate things. Shying away from the use of the word is not a good thing. 

Hitler named the nazis "national socialist workers party" as a troll against the communists - there's been a ton of academia on it. Even Encyclopedia Britannica has an article on it. 

Quote

To say that Hitler understood the value of language would be an enormous understatement. Propaganda played a significant role in his rise to power. To that end, he paid lip service to the tenets suggested by a name like National Socialist German Workers’ Party, but his primary—indeed, sole—focus was on achieving power whatever the cost and advancing his racist, anti-Semitic agenda. After the failure of the Beer Hall Putsch, in November 1923, Hitler became convinced that he needed to utilize the teetering democratic structures of the Weimar government to attain his goals.

Over the following years the brothers Otto and Gregor Strasser did much to grow the party by tying Hitler’s racist nationalism to socialist rhetoric that appealed to the suffering lower middle classes. In doing so, the Strassers also succeeded in expanding the Nazi reach beyond its traditional Bavarian base. By the late 1920s, however, with the German economy in free fall, Hitler had enlisted support from wealthy industrialists who sought to pursue avowedly anti-socialist policies. Otto Strasser soon recognized that the Nazis were neither a party of socialists nor a party of workers, and in 1930 he broke away to form the anti-capitalist Schwarze Front (Black Front). Gregor remained the head of the left wing of the Nazi Party, but the lot for the ideological soul of the party had been cast.

Hitler allied himself with leaders of German conservative and nationalist movements, and in January 1933 German President Paul von Hindenburg appointed him chancellor. Hitler’s Third Reich had been born, and it was entirely fascist in character. Within two months Hitler achieved full dictatorial power through the Enabling Act. In April 1933 communists, socialists, democrats, and Jews were purged from the German civil service, and trade unions were outlawed the following month. That July Hitler banned all political parties other than his own, and prominent members of the German Communist Party and the Social Democratic Party were arrested and imprisoned in concentration camps. Lest there be any remaining questions about the political character of the Nazi revolution, Hitler ordered the murder of Gregor Strasser, an act that was carried out on June 30, 1934, during the Night of the Long Knives. Any remaining traces of socialist thought in the Nazi Party had been extinguished.

Their use of red for their flag was also poking the soviets in the eye, not to mention everyone who joined the nazis thinking they were a socialist group were killed during the night of long knives. Classic leopard eating faces moment

Posted
29 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Hitler named the nazis "national socialist workers party" as a troll against the communists - there's been a ton of academia on it. Even Encyclopedia Britannica has an article on it. 

The fact that every American doesn't know this basic fact has always been a stunning indictment on our education system.

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Posted
1 hour ago, softlynow said:

The only way out of this is a near total collapse of the established order. The electorate is hopelessly addicted to an integrated social and legacy media monster fully weaponized by our tech oligarchs to ensure a government friendly to their every whim, and willing to shovel tax dollars into their pockets. And there's no allied western liberal army crossing an ocean to save us from ourselves.

you talk real pretty even though you're telling a horror story. i might borrow your fancy words elsewhere if you don't mind...

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Posted
1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Hitler named the nazis "national socialist workers party" as a troll against the communists - there's been a ton of academia on it. Even Encyclopedia Britannica has an article on it. 

Their use of red for their flag was also poking the soviets in the eye, not to mention everyone who joined the nazis thinking they were a socialist group were killed during the night of long knives. Classic leopard eating faces moment

Now ask the average American to recite this to you. They can’t. Now say the word socialist to maga and you will invariably hear them talk about the nazis. The word socialist needs to be reclaimed as being a good word here. It’ll take a good long while to do that, but you have to. The AOC part of the Democrats gets this. They own the word socialist. Socialism is a good thing for people. The humor of magats railing against socialism while getting a SOCIAL SECURITY check is never not funny.

Posted
1 minute ago, UpperWestside said:

Now ask the average American to recite this to you. They can’t. Now say the word socialist to maga and you will invariably hear them talk about the nazis. The word socialist needs to be reclaimed as being a good word here. It’ll take a good long while to do that, but you have to. The AOC part of the Democrats gets this. They own the word socialist. Socialism is a good thing for people. The humor of magats railing against socialism while getting a SOCIAL SECURITY check is never not funny.

Don't forget Medicare. 

We don't have time to get into the myriad subsidies that helped create and continue to benefit the middle class.

Posted
17 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

Now ask the average American to recite this to you. They can’t. Now say the word socialist to maga and you will invariably hear them talk about the nazis. The word socialist needs to be reclaimed as being a good word here. It’ll take a good long while to do that, but you have to. The AOC part of the Democrats gets this. They own the word socialist. Socialism is a good thing for people. The humor of magats railing against socialism while getting a SOCIAL SECURITY check is never not funny.

It really is something that the current crop of fascists are still benefiting from the intellectual dishonesty of the "ur" crop of fascists. There is no humor in it, they don't give a shit about their words being lies. They know only their enemy believes in words and they are delighted by acting in bad faith. 

When you press them, their arguments amount to "many people are saying", but pressing them only leads to them saying it's not the right time or place to talk about it and delay infinitely.

 

You're talking about reasoning people out of a position they weren't reasoned into, and are proud of their irrational stakeout. The only way is for the leopard to eat all their faces. In 1930s Germany all the small business owners LOVED how the nazis got the economy humming, and then they got consumed by the machine they built in the 40s, by way of private state sanctioned cartels ran by the old money they hated in the first place. They've learned their lesson. 

I can't help but think we're gonna be getting our turn in the barrel the more we FAFO

Posted
10 hours ago, chainsaw said:

The working class isn't a buzzword, though. It's a well defined group of voters. People who need to work for a living.

Are you for real with this?

Posted
10 hours ago, Pancho said:

I love that maga-tards hate this shit

 

image.thumb.png.542311af9861011aea7bd77e31607032.png

If this bullshit works I don’t want to live on this planet anymore. And I already don’t want to. 
 

WHY ARE WE SO GOD DAMN DUMB!!!?!?!??

Posted
7 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Blame billionaires, including the Guardians Of Pedophiles leadership who are getting richer while we all suffer (and using that money to sexually enslave children), and promise them free pie-in-the-sky shit.

There.  Done.  We win the presidential race popular vote by 3-5% with that plan.

Print it. Send it to whoever the Dem candidate is going to be. It’s this simple. Fuck polls. Fuck campaign staff and data analysts. This is all it takes. The ultimate grift is pretending it’s anything more. 
 

image.gif.f8e913579bcd27ca1e28a7fcc85b9f22.gif



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