Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted
1 minute ago, 956 Worldwide said:

“I got drunk on shore leave in Croatia” is a plausible explanation for an accidental SS Totenakmpf SS tattoo. Not having covered it up before a senate run many years later is incredibly dumbshit behavior if that’s what you’re rolling with. One must be simply be prepared that political enemies might use a massive SS tattoo against you. 

Or simply getting it removed. 

My best friend IRL is a jarhead and he had a fucking Celtic cross on his back that he got in Japan when he was active duty because he thought it looked cool and he damn near made it to 40 before he knew that it had been co-opted by white supremacist/Neo-Nazi groups. The dude was so rarely shirtless that I didn't notice for years until we were out on the lake one day like 8 years ago.

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 1
Posted
3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, mostly this.  And y'all know my pretty unambiguous stance on Nazis (I think they are bad....which is apparently a controversial and un-American take these days, to hear the admin tell it).

I actually was having a conversation over the weekend with a professor that teaches at UH Manoa from Germany. She got her PhD in Electrical Engineering in Finland and I told her what I'm doing for a masters. We talked about the nazis and her grandfather was a party member if I remember right. She finds America to be a pretty odd place overall right now.

Posted
59 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

That seems a little on the nose and it's 3rd hand info but ick if true

Yeah it feels slimy. If someone was going to say this anonymously, at least choose a more reputable publication to do it.

Posted
Yeah, if he'd had it removed it would've been incredibly easy to come up with an explanation that would've been acceptable to most liberals. It could've been anything from "I was young and stupid and didn't know what it was but got it removed once I learned what it was" to "I was an outright nazi but reformed and let me tell you why..." 
"I got it because I was drunk and stupid and I knew what it was and have known for the last ~20 years and I've still got it and won't get it removed because it doesn't mean anything" ain't it. 

Certainly someone sat him down and said, “If you’re going to run, we need to know the skeletons. Affairs. Debts. Giant Nazi tattoos. The whole bit.” That was the point at which you go get it removed no matter how plausible your “I was an idiot teen jarhead on leave” story is.
  • Haha 1
Posted
3 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:


Certainly someone sat him down and said, “If you’re going to run, we need to know the skeletons. Affairs. Debts. Giant Nazi tattoos. The whole bit.” That was the point at which you go get it removed no matter how plausible your “I was an idiot teen jarhead on leave” story is.

Things are pretty gotdam grim when we can’t easily cast aside the bonehead with an accidental SS tattoo because otherwise who will appeal to the Rogan chucklefucks.

Whatever the failings of establishment gatekeeping, it seems its absence is significantly worse. Maine elections should be “Country Club Republican with a sailboat” versus “Not a hippie anymore Democrat (also has a sailboat).”

  • Haha 1
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

The Pod Save interview was clearly an attempt to try to get out in front of the Jewish Insider story, which was most likely a Republican hatchet job, not a Democratic hatchet job. That's not the type of place they'd leak this to. 

The likeliest explanation is that he's a fucking idiot and he's always been a fucking idiot. That's why he was a jarhead in the first place, that's why he and his boys got nazi tattoos they probably thought looked cool as shit, and that's why he's posted a mixture of completely fine and reasonable and very stupid shit all over Reddit (and probably elsewhere online) for the past decade. His politics have probably evolved somewhat but are likely still largely incoherent because he's an idiot, but he figured out how to speak in a register that appeals to liberals and leftists who are looking for someone who seems like they'll actually fight Republicans. I get the appeal and why people are trying to defend him, but this guy ain't it.   

Contested primaries are good. If he can’t beat MeeMaw he doesn’t deserve the nomination, but going out on apology tour is what sunk Beto against Cruz.
Platner should lean INTO his meathead past and shouldn’t apologize for jack shit. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Fuck Around and Find Out 1
Posted
15 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Things are pretty gotdam grim when we can’t easily cast aside the bonehead with an accidental SS tattoo because otherwise who will appeal to the Rogan chucklefucks.

Things ARE pretty fucking grim. These are the punk rock times we were born for. We go where eagles dare.

  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Fuck Around and Find Out 1
Posted
44 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Contested primaries are good. If he can’t beat MeeMaw he doesn’t deserve the nomination, but going out on apology tour is what sunk Beto against Cruz.
Platner should lean INTO his meathead past and shouldn’t apologize for jack shit. 

Assuming he doesn't drop out before the primary.

Posted
57 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Assuming he doesn't drop out before the primary.

That would be chickenshit. It would also be  good for Susan Collins and therefore bad for America.
Contested primaries and flawed candidates get attention and are therefore good. 

  • Like 1
Posted

I agree that the ignorance and stupidity should be disqualifying, but A) as far as I can tell none of us are Mainers so my opinion (and most of our opinions) on it should not factor into his next move, and B) we are way, way past the point of ignorance and stupidity mattering to voters. We need to do whatever it takes, within the bounds of contemporary decency, to flip this seat and hold onto it for at least six years. I don't think Janet Mills has what it takes to defeat Susan Collins, and it's by no means a sure thing that she would even live long enough to finish a six year term.

If it turns out to be the case that he was lying to the American people by trying to convince the Pod Johns he was ignorant of the Nazi symbol, that would be disqualifying.

If it turns out to be the case that he's antisemitic and/or white supremacist, that would be disqualifying.

Posted

My informal poll of how often republicans show up on news stories vs democrats indicates about a 10:1 advantage for republicans. 

Given republicans control the presidency and congress, there certainly should be an advantage. But 10:1? The main constituency that is supposed to keep politicians from creating dictatorial control of the US is almost completely silent. The people at least are doing something, like the No Kings protests. But most Democrat politicians and the party? Worthless. 

This shutdown is the perfect example. Democrats should be hammering this over and over on the news. As a side note, I personally don’t like how the democrats have tackled the aca subsidies issue at all. But that’s a different discussion. 

Posted
12 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Contested primaries are good. If he can’t beat MeeMaw he doesn’t deserve the nomination, but going out on apology tour is what sunk Beto against Cruz.
Platner should lean INTO his meathead past and shouldn’t apologize for jack shit. 

Concur.

 

My wife listened to the whole PSA interview yesterday, she was had a generally positive view of him, mainly because of his earnestness. 

Posted (edited)

I haven't followed this Platner tattoo controversy closely. My initial reaction is that it shouldn't automatically be disqualifying, but sure doesn't help how aggressive he's been with (fairly) criticizing the Democratic establishment. Like, not having a fucking SS tattoo (or at least removing it) sure fucking helps when trying to break through as a modern progressive. Fucking idiot. 

I am all for very progressive candidates. But all these leftists defending him have killed other decent Democratic candidates for way less questionable backgrounds. Flip flopping on the purity tests is bullshit and annoying. 

 

 

Edited by Hank Kingsley
Posted

Betting that “vote for the most bipartisan Senator in Congress over the guy with a Nazi tattoo” won’t work on the normies that don’t follow politics is a hell of a gamble.

Not saying he can’t be the candidate, but you better have irrefutable evidence that he can overcome “do you really want to vote for Hitler??!?” commercials during every college football commercial break next year.

Posted
1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I haven't followed this Platner tattoo controversy closely. My initial reaction is that it shouldn't automatically be disqualifying, but sure doesn't help how aggressive he's been with (fairly) criticizing the Democratic establishment. Like, not having a fucking SS tattoo (or at least removing it) sure fucking helps when trying to break through as a modern progressive. Fucking idiot. 

I am all for very progressive candidates. But all these leftists defending him have killed other decent Democratic candidates for way less questionable backgrounds. Flip flopping on the purity tests is bullshit and annoying. 

 

 

I mean it's almost a certainty this dude has killed people and at some point wasn't just doing it because it was his duty to country. 

 

Posted

The ugly truth is that there, but for the grace of god, go many working class men. They are directionless, insecure, malleable, and want to feel like they're part of something. It's kind of a fluke in Platner's case that he didn't end up in the alt-right echo chamber during the 2010s because it was designed to ensnare people like him. How the hell do you get peer pressured into getting a "scary looking skull and crossbones" when you're 23, re-enlist and redeploy a bunch of times, join fucking Blackwater, and not turn out to be a MAGAt?

On one side, you have the most annoying liberals in the world telling these men how terrible they are for failing to recognize their own misogyny and white privilege. And in a veteran's case you also have the most annoying Leftists in the world telling these men how terrible they are for "killing babies" and "murdering brown people" because they willingly joined the military. You are totally irredeemable, no matter how much you try to take accountability and become a better person and there's no place for you.

On the other side, you have the most deplorable reactionary fascists, telling these men how much society has taken from them, and how they should never apologize for being an "alpha male" who fights for traditional values. It's okay if you have skeletons in your closet or skulls on your chest. "Cancel culture" is bullshit, and you're always welcome on their podcasts.

A sociopolitical movement that fights for the working class must also accept uncomfortable truths about the working class. That does not mean Graham Platner is a qualified candidate or that candidates should be held to a lower standard. It definitely does not mean that adopting a platform for the working class can (or should) exempt a candidate from the consequences of having and failing to remove a Nazi tattoo.

In light of these thoughts and observations, I have two points to make on the subject of electoral calculus.

First, by making redemption impossible, you concede crucial votes to your opposition. A party that claims it wants to win back younger men must reckon with the fact that these voters have said and done terrible things; that they have said and done ignorant things. The party should signal loudly and clearly that it is willing to offer amnesty to all who approach with good intentions. I won't get into the nitty gritty of the terms or conditions of that amnesty, but they should ensure the safety of marginalized communities without asking for excessive or performative self-flagellation. You can't please everyone, so don't try. The goal is to win back younger men without selling anyone else out.

Now, I've seen many BlueSky libs and Leftists hand-wringing about Platner. Leftists who hate him because he joined the military and is a white, cisgender, heterosexual male. Liberals who hate him because he's pro-Palestine and is a white, cisgender, heterosexual male. The most persuasive argument they've made is that it's not too late to replace him with someone better (e.g., a Bernie bro without the baggage). Which brings me to my next point.

Second, Maine is a small state and Platner is the only person who has actually rolled up his sleeves and done the work to organize people around a platform like Mamdani's that prioritizes affordability and the working class. The reason corporate and AIPAC-aligned libs along with corporate and AIPAC-aligned fascists are so motivated to take Platner out early is because they perceive him to be a threat to their interests. Make no mistake: He is the only viable threat to their interests from Maine. There is nobody else waiting in the wings, and even if there were, that person hasn't actually put in the work required to mount a serious challenge to Susan Collins. It pains me to say this, but this is Maine's only shot. I'm encouraged to hear that he's getting the tattoo removed, and because the stakes are so high, I hope he stays in the race.

Posted
16 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

The Pod Save interview was clearly an attempt to try to get out in front of the Jewish Insider story, which was most likely a Republican hatchet job, not a Democratic hatchet job. That's not the type of place they'd leak this to. 

The likeliest explanation is that he's a fucking idiot and he's always been a fucking idiot. That's why he was a jarhead in the first place, that's why he and his boys got nazi tattoos they probably thought looked cool as shit, and that's why he's posted a mixture of completely fine and reasonable and very stupid shit all over Reddit (and probably elsewhere online) for the past decade. His politics have probably evolved somewhat but are likely still largely incoherent because he's an idiot, but he figured out how to speak in a register that appeals to liberals and leftists who are looking for someone who seems like they'll actually fight Republicans. I get the appeal and why people are trying to defend him, but this guy ain't it.   

Nobody gives a fuck about info from Jewish Insider.  The tattoo story got legs right before the podcast interview so the guy had to ask about it.  They might’ve discussed it before the interview but it’s extremely unlikely that the Jewish Insider piece was why he went on the podcast.

If the tattoo really does have nazi affiliation, and the dude was made aware of it anytime before 2 weeks ago, and didn’t get it removed, then he’s an epic dumbass, and that would be what would disqualify him as a candidate.  And it’s damning of the Democratic Party leadership that this wasn’t sniffed out before he even announced his candidacy.  But it’s really not plausible that the guy is some secret nazi or ever actually held nazi beliefs.

Posted
14 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

The ugly truth is that there, but for the grace of god, go many working class men. They are directionless, insecure, malleable, and want to feel like they're part of something. It's kind of a fluke in Platner's case that he didn't end up in the alt-right echo chamber during the 2010s because it was designed to ensnare people like him. How the hell do you get peer pressured into getting a "scary looking skull and crossbones" when you're 23, re-enlist and redeploy a bunch of times, join fucking Blackwater, and not turn out to be a MAGAt?

On one side, you have the most annoying liberals in the world telling these men how terrible they are for failing to recognize their own misogyny and white privilege. And in a veteran's case you also have the most annoying Leftists in the world telling these men how terrible they are for "killing babies" and "murdering brown people" because they willingly joined the military. You are totally irredeemable, no matter how much you try to take accountability and become a better person and there's no place for you.

On the other side, you have the most deplorable reactionary fascists, telling these men how much society has taken from them, and how they should never apologize for being an "alpha male" who fights for traditional values. It's okay if you have skeletons in your closet or skulls on your chest. "Cancel culture" is bullshit, and you're always welcome on their podcasts.

A sociopolitical movement that fights for the working class must also accept uncomfortable truths about the working class. That does not mean Graham Platner is a qualified candidate or that candidates should be held to a lower standard. It definitely does not mean that adopting a platform for the working class can (or should) exempt a candidate from the consequences of having and failing to remove a Nazi tattoo.

In light of these thoughts and observations, I have two points to make on the subject of electoral calculus.

First, by making redemption impossible, you concede crucial votes to your opposition. A party that claims it wants to win back younger men must reckon with the fact that these voters have said and done terrible things; that they have said and done ignorant things. The party should signal loudly and clearly that it is willing to offer amnesty to all who approach with good intentions. I won't get into the nitty gritty of the terms or conditions of that amnesty, but they should ensure the safety of marginalized communities without asking for excessive or performative self-flagellation. You can't please everyone, so don't try. The goal is to win back younger men without selling anyone else out.

Now, I've seen many BlueSky libs and Leftists hand-wringing about Platner. Leftists who hate him because he joined the military and is a white, cisgender, heterosexual male. Liberals who hate him because he's pro-Palestine and is a white, cisgender, heterosexual male. The most persuasive argument they've made is that it's not too late to replace him with someone better (e.g., a Bernie bro without the baggage). Which brings me to my next point.

Second, Maine is a small state and Platner is the only person who has actually rolled up his sleeves and done the work to organize people around a platform like Mamdani's that prioritizes affordability and the working class. The reason corporate and AIPAC-aligned libs along with corporate and AIPAC-aligned fascists are so motivated to take Platner out early is because they perceive him to be a threat to their interests. Make no mistake: He is the only viable threat to their interests from Maine. There is nobody else waiting in the wings, and even if there were, that person hasn't actually put in the work required to mount a serious challenge to Susan Collins. It pains me to say this, but this is Maine's only shot. I'm encouraged to hear that he's getting the tattoo removed, and because the stakes are so high, I hope he stays in the race.

I appreciate and agree with the grace you are showing here. The dude needs to stay in the race and let the chips fall where they may. 

But this also needs to be a lesson for the left. That grace needs to be extended to other Dem candidates that don't fit into their tight window of beliefs. People make mistakes. It is a good think to adapt and change opinions as you get older and wiser. Very few people are on the "right" side of things their entire life. Stop making that a prerequisite. 

 



×
×
  • Create New...