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Posted
15 minutes ago, immamac said:

Queer hasn't always meant gay it's always meant queer it's an actual word with a definition. 

Just because it was coopted by a group to self describe doesn't mean it's a slur in every context. 

 

I’m not sure if you think that I said something different.

Posted
28 minutes ago, Cruz in Aledo said:

Bijan is rolling his eyes and just wants unwanted attention to go away. The reaction to his comment was much more harmful than naming the game itself. 

This and Justin Herbert’s hot mic attempted rebuffing of hot Laura Rutledge are the two biggest non-stories that we as a society trump up to be big things. They aren’t. A lot of self-important people in media, and that definitely includes social media. 

Holy shit, the amount of projection on in this post is off the charts. How do you know if Bijan is rolling his eyes or actually feels bad about it? I certainly don't know the guy, but I have no reason to believe the apology was anything other than genuine. 

You are right that it's a non-story...because that seems to be how people are treating it. Did Bijan get suspended? Did he lose any of his many sponsorship deals? Did GLAAD publicly call for his execution and I missed it? 

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Posted
16 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

When do you think the game was invented? Queer was a pejorative for gay folks long before it was recaptured to self-identify. The use of the term in the game was 100% homophobic. 

Your reaction to a simple apology is far more damaging. This is an innocuous event. People treating the apology as bad are the ones blowing it out of proportion. 

Yes, it was. Queer was a pejorative for gay folks 100 years before the game existed. Its use in the game was absolutely homophobic and a reference to the pejorative term. It was simply part of the culture of our society when that name was used. 

Bijan didn't mean any harm when he said it. It was a slip of the tongue referencing a childhood game that had a legacy of homophobia. He apologized, in much the same was you'd apologize if you accidentally bumped into someone. It wasn't intentional. It wasn't mean. But it did deserve an apology. Bijan is grown man unlike the reactionary children on this thread. It isn't a big deal, and y'all are the absolute worst for trying to make an apology a problem. 

 

I take issue with the word homophobic. It is a really bad descriptor all the time, and definitely in this sense where kids want to physically truck the ball carrier. Kids playing the game weren’t thinking about gays or even that the ball carrier was different. It was a game. If anyone told my son calling it was homophobic, I’d say that person is wrong.  But you can’t call it that, and here’s why.

He apologized and it’s over.  I am not disappointed in him. Good for him. Just saying why I would not have. 

Posted
6 minutes ago, UncleSonny said:

Holy shit, the amount of projection on in this post is off the charts. How do you know if Bijan is rolling his eyes or actually feels bad about it? I certainly don't know the guy, but I have no reason to believe the apology was anything other than genuine. 

You are right that it's a non-story...because that seems to be how people are treating it. Did Bijan get suspended? Did he lose any of his many sponsorship deals? Did GLAAD publicly call for his execution and I missed it? 

Well, it’s still early, so you can give it a little time. 

Not until reading this thread and this story did it even occur to me that “smear the queer” involved a slur. We certainly didn’t think of the guy with the ball as a gay dude when we played it. 

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Posted
6 minutes ago, UncleSonny said:

Holy shit, the amount of projection on in this post is off the charts. How do you know if Bijan is rolling his eyes or actually feels bad about it? I certainly don't know the guy, but I have no reason to believe the apology was anything other than genuine. 

You are right that it's a non-story...because that seems to be how people are treating it. Did Bijan get suspended? Did he lose any of his many sponsorship deals? Did GLAAD publicly call for his execution and I missed it? 

Ha, I was responding to a post with projection. The guy said Bijan felt badly. I suspect he did not, and was rolling his eyes. I don’t know, and the other guy doesn’t. 

It was a non-story until idiots on Twitter and media made it a story replete with an apology. I do see more people being critical of his decision to apologize, in a nice way. 

Posted

I think a useful distinction we should make especially with young men is the difference between using homophobic language (or sexist or racist or whatever) and being homophobic. Using language in a way that can hurt people doesn’t make you a piece of shit necessarily, and apologizing for that use doesn’t mean that you are admitting to being whatever bad thing it is that you are afraid to admit to being.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I think a useful distinction we should make especially with young men is the difference between using homophobic language (or sexist or racist or whatever) and being homophobic. Using language in a way that can hurt people doesn’t make you a piece of shit necessarily, and apologizing for that use doesn’t mean that you are admitting to being whatever bad thing it is that you are afraid to admit to being.

The words homophobia and homophobic should be slingshot from our vocabulary to the moon. 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Cruz in Aledo said:

I take issue with the word homophobic. It is a really bad descriptor all the time, and definitely in this sense where kids want to physically truck the ball carrier. Kids playing the game weren’t thinking about gays or even that the ball carrier was different. It was a game. If anyone told my son calling it was homophobic, I’d say that person is wrong.  But you can’t call it that, and here’s why.

He apologized and it’s over.  I am not disappointed in him. Good for him. Just saying why I would not have. 

The word was used as a homophobic slur. Its use in the name of the game was homophobic. Whether the individual children who played at various times were aware of that or themselves homophobic is a completely different issue. As a kid in the 80s and 90s, I certainly understood that queer referenced someone's sexuality and was used as an insult. I had a vague sense that the name was mean, but homophobia was so common that I didn't really appreciate its true cruelty or that others could be hurt by its use. I do now. Not apologizing would be a dick move. But I get it, y'all are assholes that can only think about yourselves and not about how your words and actions affect others (even if unintentionally).  

3 minutes ago, Cruz in Aledo said:

The words homophobia and homophobic should be slingshot from our vocabulary to the moon. 

That is idiotic. 

Edited by Dahobbs
Posted

Well, I think BR should man up and demand to be traded to San Francisco to prove he meant no offense.  It's the sensible thing to do.  I am not suggesting this because I am 49ers fan.  I am being sincere... no, really.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

But I get it, y'all are assholes that can only think about yourselves and not about how your words and actions affect others (even if unintentional).  

That is idiotic. 

image.gif.282f25654cc1ba0c76cef2ce712c72f7.gif

And if you want to use the worst descriptor of all time, go for it. 

Edited by Cruz in Aledo
Posted
14 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Well, it’s still early, so you can give it a little time. 

If those things happen I’ll rush to this thread with an apology but nothing will come of this except for a bunch of guys telling on themselves on message boards and twitter. 

Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Cruz in Aledo said:

image.gif.282f25654cc1ba0c76cef2ce712c72f7.gif

And if you want to use the worst descriptor of all time, go for it. 

Asshole is a very appropriate descriptor.  But it sounds like you're struggling with some of the nuance of the English language. Homophobic is an adjective. It could apply to a word, an object, or a person. But just because it applies to a particular word doesn't mean it applies to the person who uses it. You can change the descriptor if you'd like, but the grammar issue remains the same. 

Edited by Dahobbs
Posted
47 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

If the game was being played in 1600s, you'd have a point. The pejorative use was well established by the 1800s and certainly understood in the mid-twentieth century when the game started.  

You are just wrong on this.  It occassionally was used to describe homosexuals before WWII, sometimes pergerotively, but it is still in the context of the original meaning - being odd or different.  If they wanted to specifically target homosexuals, they would have named it Bury the Fairy.

It wasn't common usage in gay communities until the 60s and didn't really go mainstream popularized until really the 80s.  And like "gay" it didn't necessarily have a negative connotation until the association became widespread.  You are far more likely to find a old news article celebrating the opening of a queer bar as something new and exciting than something for homosexuals. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, JBJ said:

You are just wrong on this.  It occassionally was used to describe homosexuals before WWII, sometimes pergerotively, but it is still in the context of the original meaning - being odd or different.  If they wanted to specifically target homosexuals, they would have named it Bury the Fairy.

It wasn't common usage in gay communities until the 60s and didn't really go mainstream popularized until really the 80s.  And like "gay" it didn't necessarily have a negative connotation until the association became widespread.  You are far more likely to find a old news article celebrating the opening of a queer bar as something new and exciting than something for homosexuals. 

I bet that is the end of the argument. 

[Dahobbs: hold my beer]

Posted
20 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

The word was used as a homophobic slur. Its use in the name of the game was homophobic. Whether the individual children who played at various times were aware of that or themselves homophobic is a completely different issue. As a kid in the 80s and 90s, I certainly understood that queer referenced someone's sexuality and was used as an insult. I had a vague sense that the name was mean, but homophobia was so common that I didn't really appreciate its true cruelty or that others could be hurt by its use. I do now. Not apologizing would be a dick move. But I get it, y'all are assholes that can only think about yourselves and not about how your words and actions affect others (even if unintentionally).  

That is idiotic. 

Apesar de hétero, gosto de traços delicados.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, JBJ said:

 

It wasn't common usage in gay communities until the 60s and didn't really go mainstream popularized until really the 80s.  And like "gay" it didn't necessarily have a negative connotation until the association became widespread.  

Right, but when was Bijan a kid? That’s the point I was trying to make - whatever the etymology and without any hate in my heart as a kid in the 90s I thought that the queer was the queer in the same way that my homework was gay. If I used those words in those ways now, I’d say oops and apologize and move on. It’s not a big deal.

Edited by Celery Man
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Posted
1 minute ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Yall are dumb as fuck. We all know he didnt mean what he said in the way he said it, but he said something that might be considered derogatory these days. He apologized

 

who fucking cares. Stfu and move on, you old fucks

image.gif.b420c41622a99fe241d0508b1807f4cf.gif

Posted
26 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

But it sounds like you're struggling with some of the nuance of the English language. Homophobic is an adjective. It could apply to a word, an object, or a person. But just because it applies to a particular word doesn't mean it applies to the person who uses it. You can change the descriptor if you'd like, but the grammar issue remains the same. 

I just saw your edit. I’m not struggling with grammar. I struggle with words that poorly describe actions and feelings. Anti-gay behavior isn’t borne out of fear. Words ending in phobia usually work. This one does not at all, hardly ever. Particularly when boys playing a game clothesline a ball carrier temporarily being labeled as gay, according to you. Whatever descriptor you are looking for is not fear. It’s hate. And even then it is still not an accurate depiction of a game kids play. 

Posted
52 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I think a useful distinction we should make especially with young men is the difference between using homophobic language (or sexist or racist or whatever) and being homophobic. Using language in a way that can hurt people doesn’t make you a piece of shit necessarily, 

I've been making this point in CR for the last week, but I will safely tell you that they don't agree and that DaHobbs will neg like a bitch.

HOMOPHOBIC MAGAT FROM GAY BLACK MECCA USES ANTI-GAY SLUR ON HOT MIC is too long of a thread title though

Posted
1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

Not until reading this thread and this story did it even occur to me that “smear the queer” involved a slur. We certainly didn’t think of the guy with the ball as a gay dude when we played it. 

I think I was about 7 years old when that was one of the big games on the playground.  I'm pretty sure I didn't really know what "queer" meant.  It seemed like a generic pejorative term to me.

Good for Bijan for owning it.  Time to move on.

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Posted
57 minutes ago, JBJ said:

You are just wrong on this.  It occassionally was used to describe homosexuals before WWII, sometimes pergerotively, but it is still in the context of the original meaning - being odd or different.  If they wanted to specifically target homosexuals, they would have named it Bury the Fairy.

It wasn't common usage in gay communities until the 60s and didn't really go mainstream popularized until really the 80s.  And like "gay" it didn't necessarily have a negative connotation until the association became widespread.  You are far more likely to find a old news article celebrating the opening of a queer bar as something new and exciting than something for homosexuals. 

I'm not wrong. 

Queer - Wikipedia

Quote

 

Early pejorative use

By the late 19th century, queer was beginning to gain a connotation of sexual deviance, used to refer to feminine men or men who were thought to have engaged in same-sex relationships. An early recorded usage of the word in this sense was in an 1894 letter by John Douglas, 9th Marquess of Queensberry, as read aloud at the trial of Oscar Wilde.[28][29]

Queer was used in mainstream society by the early 20th century, along with fairy and faggot, as a pejorative term to refer to men who were perceived as flamboyant. This was, as historian George Chauncey notes, "the predominant image of all queers within the straight mind".[30]

Starting in the underground gay bar scene in the 1950s,[31] then moving more into the open in the 1960s and 1970s, the homophile identity was gradually displaced by a more radicalized gay identity. At that time gay was generally an umbrella term including lesbians, as well as gay-identified bisexuals and transsexuals; gender nonconformity, which had always been an indicator of gayness,[31] also became more open during this time. During the endonymic shifts from invert to homophile to gay, queer was usually pejoratively applied to men who were believed to engage in receptive or passive anal or oral sex with other men[32] as well as those who exhibited non-normative gender expressions.[33]

 

It was slur by the time the game was popularized in the latter half of the 20th century. Y'all sound like old men arguing that the n-word isn't a racial slur or racist. Come the fuck on. 

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Posted (edited)

It's just a silly name of a dumb game that rhymes and is catchy. But if you really think about it, wouldn't willfully participating in the "smearing" of the "queer" also be gay?

Edited by Pam Cummings
Posted
2 hours ago, JBJ said:

Smear the queer was a game long before homosexuals started using the word to self-identify.  So, no, it hasn't "always been homophobic."

Anyone who grew up in the 70s and 80s knows better.

Nice try, though.

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Posted
3 hours ago, Cruz in Aledo said:

Atlanta needs a new coach. I like Penix, I think. Bijan and London are studs. Pitts can be sometimes. 

I like Penis Jr. fine but I'm not sure how many more football games he has in him. I mean you'd have to put the over/under at like 25 at this point. 

Posted

We called it "Smear the Queer" because the kids in the grades above us called it that. Then when we became 5th graders and ran the elementary school, we changed the name to "Kill Ball" because we thought it sounded tougher and cooler. Obviously our new name didn't catch on with others. A shame, really.

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Posted
53 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I'm not wrong. 

Queer - Wikipedia

It was slur by the time the game was popularized in the latter half of the 20th century. Y'all sound like old men arguing that the n-word isn't a racial slur or racist. Come the fuck on. 

For every obscure reference you can cite I can find thousands in pipular publications proving itherwise, but I'm not going to argue with someone who wants to be wrong because he's politically influenced.

Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

For any of you that think saying "queer" is no big deal, can y'all please start using that term around your office and then report back on what happens?

Where do you live that it is not politically correct?

Like...I understand why people would find the game name offensive, but it's a pretty PC term overall.

Edited by JBJ
Posted
13 minutes ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

For any of you that think saying "queer" is no big deal, can y'all please start using that term around your office and then report back on what happens?

I was fired.  Expect to get served in the coming days.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, JBJ said:

For every obscure reference you can cite I can find thousands in pipular publications proving itherwise, but I'm not going to argue with someone who wants to be wrong because he's politically influenced.

My guy, it wasn't obscure. I cited fucking wikipedia. I lived during the time. It was most definitely a slur. Kids called each other gay or queer as an insult. What did you think R Lee Ermey mean by steers and queers? The only thing political about this conversation pretending it wasn't a pejorative. 

2 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Where do you live that it is not politically correct?

Like...I understand why people would find the game name offensive, but it's a pretty PC term overall.

It is PC now. The term has been reclaimed. But only when used in a positive context. Smear the queer is not that. You're being ridiculous. 

 

Posted

I'm just surprised anyone growing up in Bijan's generation still called it that. 

Bijan is a great guy, kind, with a big genuine smile, and just terrific around kids (my son did a football camp with him). I tune out when he speaks because the God stuff is so, so extremely over the top and never-ending. So I missed his remark.

And the constant God stuff plays a part in me thinking he's gay. Anyone else get that vibe? Are there ever any women in his life? Never seen one. 

 

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Posted
11 minutes ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

Bijan is a great guy, kind, with a big genuine smile, and just terrific around kids (my son did a football camp with him). I tune out when he speaks because the God stuff is so, so extremely over the top and never-ending.

You're entitled to your religious beliefs but pretty high chance that those things are related. 

12 minutes ago, ChuckNorrisActionJeans said:

And the constant God stuff plays a part in me thinking he's gay. Anyone else get that vibe? Are there ever any women in his life? Never seen one. 

I'm not sure what the God stuff has to do with him maybe being gay. Plenty of gay Christians or gay guys that grew up Christian and didn't have a problem with it. Protestants especially don't really persecute the gays anymore. 

I've thought that he might be gay for awhile now, though. 

Posted
2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

You're entitled to your religious beliefs but pretty high chance that those things are related. 

I'm not sure what the God stuff has to do with him maybe being gay. Plenty of gay Christians or gay guys that grew up Christian and didn't have a problem with it. Protestants especially don't really persecute the gays anymore. 

I've thought that he might be gay for awhile now, though. 

Side Eye Reaction GIF by MOODMAN

Posted

I played STQ a lot in my youth. It was loads of fun. Growing up in the 1970s in rural East Texas, we didn't have gays but we sure called each other gay, fag, queer, homo, and the like.  Of course, we had a few of your more artistic types, but nobody was gay. I mean, come on. That was unimaginable in our school and something that only occurred in far-off cities. In the fog  of my teen years, I didn't think about it too much when a couple of those artistic types just left for California or disappeared from class one day. Finally, sometime during my freshman year in college, I realized what was reality and how I and my friends had inadvertently made life much tougher for them than it should have been. Haven't really forgiven myself, but I hope I raised my kids to be more aware and caring than I was.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Reese Bennett said:

I played STQ a lot in my youth. It was loads of fun. Growing up in the 1970s in rural East Texas, we didn't have gays but we sure called each other gay, fag, queer, homo, and the like.  Of course, we had a few of your more artistic types, but nobody was gay. I mean, come on. That was unimaginable in our school and something that only occurred in far-off cities. In the fog  of my teen years, I didn't think about it too much when a couple of those artistic types just left for California or disappeared from class one day. Finally, sometime during my freshman year in college, I realized what was reality and how I and my friends had inadvertently made life much tougher for them than it should have been. Haven't really forgiven myself, but I hope I raised my kids to be more aware and caring than I was.

Well clearly yall were homophobes. I mean, every red blooded American male that dominated STQ was fearful of gays. Because it was both something we did not understand and deep down, we were gayer than a pink wall. 

Posted
11 minutes ago, Cruz in Aledo said:

Well clearly yall were homophobes. I mean, every red blooded American male that dominated STQ was fearful of gays. Because it was both something we did not understand and deep down, we were gayer than a pink wall. 

Stupidity Are You Stupid GIF

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