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The US and Korea


RomaVicta

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Just now, Mojo Hand said:

So the deal is us canceling our military exercises with SK in exchange for NK restating the same vague promises they've made for 25 years?  Is this a joke? 

From what I just read we’re cancelling our regularly scheduled exercises that happen every spring. They’re due to happen next March.  I’m sure if things are progressing properly we’ll be doing whatever we want. 

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2 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

From what I just read we’re cancelling our regularly scheduled exercises that happen every spring. They’re due to happen next March.  I’m sure if things are progressing properly we’ll be doing whatever we want. 

Why are you sure of that?

1 minute ago, Dbeasy said:

I hate Trump’s guts. But objectively you have to acknowledge that for such an incredibly difficult problem and situation, the agreement with NK is a positive first step. It may all fall apart later, but you have to start somewhere, and commitment to de-nuclearization is the right first step.

That's not a first step. NK pledging to maybe think seriously about de-nuclearization is a "first step" that has been repeated over 3 decades. Lucy is putting the football on the ground again and you're acting like Charlie Brown is brave and noble for coming in to take another shot.

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The only thing we have given up is joint military exercises, which are just a money drain anyway.

They're actually an extremely important sign of solidarity with an important economic and democratic ally. But at least we got the same empty, specifics-free promise we always get. And a photo-op.

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Suck it up and acknowledge that he’s done something that has some value because he has. Otherwise you look just like the science-denying lugheads on the right.

There is literally nothing at all of value that occurred. Nothing. It was completely meaningless.

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4 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Reading the butthurt in here reminds me yet again that 95% of our population, including the posters on here, are simply incapable of perceiving anything political in any way other than reinforcing their existing beliefs. If you hate the left, everything that happens will be perceived thru that lens.

I hate Trump’s guts. But objectively you have to acknowledge that for such an incredibly difficult problem and situation, the agreement with NK is a positive first step. It may all fall apart later, but you have to start somewhere, and commitment to de-nuclearization is the right first step. The only thing we have given up is joint military exercises, which are just a money drain anyway. If things go sideways, we just start exercises again. Sanctions are still in place. Fears over legitimizing Un are way over-blown. The whole world knows he’s a clown. Complaints about no human rights changes are premature. We work with China and they have a plethora of human rights violations. There are a dozen other countries we deal with that also are brutal dictatorships, like Saudi Arabia. The main goal is denuclearization, not solving all their human rights violations. In fact, you can’t easily do that until you’ve solved the nuclear problem first.

You guys are smart. Suck it up and acknowledge that he’s done something that has some value because he has. Otherwise you look just like the science-denying lugheads on the right.

At best it is something of potential value.   If diplomacy were how we interact with just one country it is a more positive thing.  Pissing off the rest of the world in order to get Trump personal poll points might have some downside with our allies.  Suck it up and acknowledge that he’s done something that has still questionable value, because he has.

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5 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Reading the butthurt in here reminds me yet again that 95% of our population, including the posters on here, are simply incapable of perceiving anything political in any way other than reinforcing their existing beliefs. If you hate the left, everything that happens will be perceived thru that lens.

I hate Trump’s guts. But objectively you have to acknowledge that for such an incredibly difficult problem and situation, the agreement with NK is a positive first step. It may all fall apart later, but you have to start somewhere, and commitment to de-nuclearization is the right first step. The only thing we have given up is joint military exercises, which are just a money drain anyway. If things go sideways, we just start exercises again. Sanctions are still in place. Fears over legitimizing Un are way over-blown. The whole world knows he’s a clown. Complaints about no human rights changes are premature. We work with China and they have a plethora of human rights violations. There are a dozen other countries we deal with that also are brutal dictatorships, like Saudi Arabia. The main goal is denuclearization, not solving all their human rights violations. In fact, you can’t easily do that until you’ve solved the nuclear problem first.

You guys are smart. Suck it up and acknowledge that he’s done something that has some value because he has. Otherwise you look just like the science-denying lugheads on the right.

First step?  Read the joint statements from the early 1990s before you comment on this subject any further. 

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3 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

At best it is something of potential value.   If diplomacy were how we interact with just one country it is a more positive thing.  Pissing off the rest of the world in order to get Trump personal poll points might have some downside with our allies.  Suck it up and acknowledge that he’s done something that has still questionable value, because he has.

The thing is that he could have had the NK summit AND not been a dick to our allies. He could have had his cake and eaten it too. We dont have to break ties with the West and join the axis of evil in order to get KJU to the table. He needs to change, not us.  Instead, we are giving up military exercises with SK for nothing and have put the removal of our forces on the table.

Edited by FondrenRoad
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18 hours ago, Caracara said:

I do believe I've said I think we're demanding and will get, verifiable, irreversible denuclearization.  If we don't, I'll be here eating crow.

Today is Tuesday - it's the day we eat the birds.

Here, have some hot snow to go with your crow.

hotwater-25-1480071984.jpg

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HH: Are you upset by the President’s statement about military exercises, even though they’re not scheduled to occur until March or April of ’19?

TC: Well, Hugh, that’s and important point that you make. The main military exercise about which the Kim regime has complained for years is something called Foal Eagle, which usually happens in the spring, which means it won’t happen again until next spring. And I suspect by that point, we’ll have, well before that point, actually, we’ll know whether Kim Jong Un is serious about these commitments.

From Tom Cotton.  About as hawkish a person as you can find. 

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8 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

We are really going after the wrong thing. We should let him keep the nukes for MAD and press him to demilitarize the border and stand down his forward troops that are entrenched above Seoul. That's how you end the war. 

Nukes and missile technology have to go because of the Iranian connection. NK has to be settled before Iran can be dealt with. 

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Just now, Dolemite said:

Nukes and missile technology have to go because of the Iranian connection. NK has to be settled before Iran can be dealt with. 

Lulz. We've dishonored two nuke deals already. Nukes aren't going anywhere, but the conventional DMZ could go away. 

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30 seconds to validate my 95% comment. Not one of you can sit back and reflect for 10 minutes. Nope. You just immediately spit out your standard lines you’ve been given by your Dear Leaders. Congratulations conservatives and liberals. You will forever be known as the reason why the greatest country to ever grace this planet was destroyed from within.

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3 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

HH: Are you upset by the President’s statement about military exercises, even though they’re not scheduled to occur until March or April of ’19?

TC: Well, Hugh, that’s and important point that you make. The main military exercise about which the Kim regime has complained for years is something called Foal Eagle, which usually happens in the spring, which means it won’t happen again until next spring. And I suspect by that point, we’ll have, well before that point, actually, we’ll know whether Kim Jong Un is serious about these commitments.

From Tom Cotton.  About as hawkish a person as you can find. 

Yes, the best defense for the deal is that there is no actual deal and the only concrete promise wasn't in writing. 

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3 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

HH: Are you upset by the President’s statement about military exercises, even though they’re not scheduled to occur until March or April of ’19?

TC: Well, Hugh, that’s and important point that you make. The main military exercise about which the Kim regime has complained for years is something called Foal Eagle, which usually happens in the spring, which means it won’t happen again until next spring. And I suspect by that point, we’ll have, well before that point, actually, we’ll know whether Kim Jong Un is serious about these commitments.

From Tom Cotton.  About as hawkish a person as you can find. 

Ah, so we are openly not serious about our commitments, but expect him to be serious about his. 

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Just now, Dbeasy said:

30 seconds to validate my 95% comment. Not one of you can sit back and reflect for 10 minutes. Nope. You just immediately spit out your standard lines you’ve been given by your Dear Leaders. Congratulations conservatives and liberals. You will forever be known as the reason why the greatest country to ever grace this planet was destroyed from within.

Dude, you're fucking nuts. 

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Just now, Dolemite said:

You don't understand the connection between Iran and NK.

We made a deal and broke it with Iran.

We made a deal and broke it with Libya.

We are trying to make a deal with NK, but our word on these deals is pretty worthless.

Iran knows how to make nukes already.They made a deal to stop.  We broke it.  Nukes are closing in on a century. They aren't some secret. 

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5 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

30 seconds to validate my 95% comment. Not one of you can sit back and reflect for 10 minutes. Nope. You just immediately spit out your standard lines you’ve been given by your Dear Leaders. Congratulations conservatives and liberals. You will forever be known as the reason why the greatest country to ever grace this planet was destroyed from within.

People weren't thinking about this until you posted, because you're the center of all things.

Great victories:
nrKit57.png

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4 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

30 seconds to validate my 95% comment. Not one of you can sit back and reflect for 10 minutes. Nope. You just immediately spit out your standard lines you’ve been given by your Dear Leaders. Congratulations conservatives and liberals. You will forever be known as the reason why the greatest country to ever grace this planet was destroyed from within.

No, there's this actual thing called reality, and it's different than the reality show this president is putting on.  You know, the guy who pulled out of the Iran deal despite significant layers of verification, but is now taking KJU at his word when he makes weaker and vauger promises than NK made in 1993.

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Dude, you're fucking nuts. 

Interesting comment given you and the others are the ones looking like two year olds holding your breath and sticking fingers in your ears.

The missile tests have stopped. They blew up a missile construction site. They are scheduled to announce additional actions. If nothing happens, then we just put the joint exercises back on the schedule.

The objective response to yesterday’s news at worst should have been “hmm, let’s see what happens over the next few months.” But nope. Your blind hatred for an individual and an opposing political party has turned you into parrots for the thoughts of whoever you’ve listened to on your side.
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The past doesn't exist? The present doesn't exist, either? lol ok bud

The stopping of missile tests and blowing up of a missile construction site. Now who is ignoring the past? Who is ignoring the most recent past?
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16 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:


Interesting comment given you and the others are the ones looking like two year olds holding your breath and sticking fingers in your ears.

The missile tests have stopped. They blew up a missile construction site. They are scheduled to announce additional actions. If nothing happens, then we just put the joint exercises back on the schedule.

The objective response to yesterday’s news at worst should have been “hmm, let’s see what happens over the next few months.” But nope. Your blind hatred for an individual and an opposing political party has turned you into parrots for the thoughts of whoever you’ve listened to on your side.

They blew up a site that was not functional anyways. This was, again, just a show. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/26/north-korea-nuclear-test-site-collapse-may-be-out-of-action-china

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North Korea’s main nuclear test site has partially collapsed under the stress of multiple explosions, possibly rendering it unsafe for further testing and leaving it vulnerable to radiation leaks, a study by Chinese geologists has shown.

The findings could cast doubt on North Korea’s sincerity in announcing last weekend that it would stop testing nuclear weapons at the site ahead of Friday’s summit between the country’s leader, Kim Jong-un, and the South Korean president, Moon Jae-in.

The test site at Punggye-ri, in a mountainous area in North Korea’s north-east, has been the location for all six of the regime’s nuclear tests since 2006.

The findings, by scientists at the University of Science and Technology of China, suggest the partial collapse of the mountain that contains the testing tunnels, as well as the risk of radiation leaks, have potentially rendered the site unusable.

If anything, this just bought NK more time to build a new nuke test site. 

Edited by SmokeyTheBear
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1 minute ago, Dbeasy said:

The stopping of missile tests and blowing up of a missile construction site. Now who is ignoring the past? Who is ignoring the most recent past?

Their nuclear testing fell apart on accident, they used that as an opportunity to say they did it on purpose, and you are so fucking stupid you gobble up NK propaganda like it's truth. Holy shit.

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12 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

We made a deal and broke it with Iran.

We made a deal and broke it with Libya.

We are trying to make a deal with NK, but our word on these deals is pretty worthless.

Iran knows how to make nukes already.They made a deal to stop.  We broke it.  Nukes are closing in on a century. They aren't some secret. 

We had no deal with Iran. Nothing was signed.

Iran doesn't have the missile technology and has been counting on NK to provide it. 

Trump will put this agreement (if made) into a form that will be ratifiable by the Senate and NK will have a legal document to count on.

 

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Just now, Dbeasy said:


The stopping of missile tests and blowing up of a missile construction site. Now who is ignoring the past? Who is ignoring the most recent past?

Still you.  NK's nuclear program isn't in its infancy.   It doesn't need to develop its first bomb or missile anymore.   It has nukes and ICBMs and is now trying to keep them while having sanctions lifted.   Destroying the cradle is meaningless when the program has grown up. 

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4 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I mean, stay with me, it’s almost as if Trump didn’t prepare for the meeting. 

We are the ones who blew up the Agreed Framework.  Also, Ari Fleischer is a piece of shit.

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We've made this deal with NK several times before.  Except with specific verification language.  Which is usually where things start to fall apart:  When the inspectors show up and can't get out of Pyongyang.

I'll give credit to Trump for making a joint statement.  It's a vaguer version of the same deal all three of the previous President's have made, and he had to give up the face to face photo op to get it, but he got it. 

It's nothing more or less.  If he actually gets something concrete in the future, I'll give him credit for that.

And make no mistake, the North Koreans are confident enough in their warhead and missile technology that they can give away low value things like test sites or assembly plants.  The goal here is to keep a small, but highly functional nuclear force capable of ravaging the West Coast, and hitting the East Coast, and eventually being accepted as a nuclear power and given access to global markets. 

Edited by Bateshorn
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31 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

30 seconds to validate my 95% comment. Not one of you can sit back and reflect for 10 minutes. Nope. You just immediately spit out your standard lines you’ve been given by your Dear Leaders. Congratulations conservatives and liberals. You will forever be known as the reason why the greatest country to ever grace this planet was destroyed from within.

I think what most on the left are reacting to is that when Obama so much as mentioned a willingness to meet with NK he was panned by the right for being naive, and they said it would legitimize NK. But when Trump does it, he's a revolutionary genius who deserves the Nobel Peace Prize. 

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14 minutes ago, Dolemite said:

We had no deal with Iran. Nothing was signed.

Iran doesn't have the missile technology and has been counting on NK to provide it. 

Trump will put this agreement (if made) into a form that will be ratifiable by the Senate and NK will have a legal document to count on.

He won't get two-thirds of the Senate to agree to this. The only good thing that can be said is that it could have been worse. It was a day long photo op for a murderous dictator. Kim got everything he wanted and we made major concessions. Sad!

Also, for anyone who hasn't watched The Dotard's press conference, you really should. Its incoherence is staggering even for Donald Trump.

Edited by David Dennison
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2 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Obama should have cared more about doing the right thing than what the meanies on Fox would say about him.  

He did...it was called the Iran Nuclear Deal and Trump blew it up, because...Obama

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While I was sipping my morning coffee, I decided to flip through the cable news channels for some entertainment. Boy, it did not disappoint. The black suits and stone faces were tinged with the all too familiar post election dismay. Sincere thoughts and prayers for their undoubtedly dark and difficult emotional journey ahead. 

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3 minutes ago, Chrispy said:

While I was sipping my morning coffee, I decided to flip through the cable news channels for some entertainment. Boy, it did not disappoint. The black suits and stone faces were tinged with the all too familiar post election dismay. Sincere thoughts and prayers for their undoubtedly dark and difficult emotional journey ahead. 

Ceding US power and prestige in the Pacific to own the libs

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4 minutes ago, Chrispy said:

While I was sipping my morning coffee, I decided to flip through the cable news channels for some entertainment. Boy, it did not disappoint. The black suits and stone faces were tinged with the all too familiar post election dismay. Sincere thoughts and prayers for their undoubtedly dark and difficult emotional journey ahead. 

Please explain...what should everyone be excited about after the meeting?  Aside from the awesome coins of course.

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