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The US and Korea


RomaVicta

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10 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

The trolls are literally running out of material. The arguments they make are now so absurd its not worth responding to unless to point out that once again, they’re trolling.

He’s not lying! He’s joking! That’s his great mercurial PR skills! LOL!!!! Smiley emoji!?!!!

Sad!

Trump was joking about coming up with an excuse if he turned out to be wrong.  You say he was lying?  Others say he was totally sincere.  I think he was making a not very good joke about himself, and for a second, thought he might get a laugh..

Edited by Caracara
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7 minutes ago, Caracara said:

Trump was joking about coming up with an excuse if he turned out to be wrong.  You say he was lying?  Others say he was totally sincere.  I think he was making a not very good joke about himself, and for a second, thought he might get a laugh..

 

Well “others say” he was admitting that if he turned out wrong he would lie about it. Which of course he will. The president should be held to a higher standard, i.e. the “truth” and not “joke” about whether he thinks someone has a nuclear bomb capable of blowing away a large part of the US. 

Seriously fuck off with this bullshit. Your trolling is not gonna work here pardner. 

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1 hour ago, Dolemite said:

I agree. He saw the life his grandfather and father led. A life where they were constantly on guard for potential threats on their life. Living in isolation, having to suck up to the Chinese etc.

Little Kim seems like the type who sees the benefit of joining the world community. Cutting ties with Iran etc, and I think that is where he wants to go for the future. 

 

You may sincerely believe this, but I have no clue what your evidence might be.

"He seems like the type..." How could you possibly get that impression from a couple of meetings he had with Moon and Trump unless you've been swayed by talking heads who have a) never met him, b) made claims based on watching a tape, and c) a narrative they're parroting.

Recall Brisket's post quoting a family member who has actually met the guy. He/she was under no such illusion that KJU was prepared to fulfill any of his promises.

Look, none of us on this board are mindreaders and none of us really know first-hand what's up. To go out on a limb and speculate that KJU might want to open his country up seems like fantasy based on what we actually know his past actions have been. He has a pattern of behavior that doesn't seem terribly removed from his predecessors.

Sure, we can hope. I hope too for peace, but I'm not going to hold my breath and make claims that are based on speculation.   

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1 hour ago, Caracara said:

Did you see the part of the trailer that emphasized, now or never? one final chance. Watch it again

Remember when Trump repeatedly threatened Rocketman not to continue with missle testing, and NK promptly continued their missile testing? I'm sure they cower in fear whenever the orange windbag takes a Twitter crap. 

Kim Jong Un knows exactly what the entire planet knows. Trump is a buffoon. He called Trumps bluff and several months later Trump is sucking him off on the global stage. 

Edited by Blotto
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Kim doesn't have much choice. HIs country is in ruins and his chief benefactor, China, has told him its time to change. Why did they tell him that? Because Trump is leaning on them with tariffs.

Even if he had a choice it's not logical to keep going down the same old path that his father and grandfather went down. It didn't get them anywhere. Why would he think it would be different for him?

My experience has been that people generally do what is in their perceived best interest. Surely Kim would rather be the top guy in a prosperous country than in the hell hole he currently operates in.

We will see, but I know one thing. Fucking Trump will get his way, one way or the other because he always has. Its how he operates. Unrelenting, and insufferable. 

 

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2 hours ago, Caracara said:

Yeah he was born into it, but he might be up for something different.  

 

1 hour ago, Dolemite said:

Little Kim seems like the type who sees the benefit of joining the world community. Cutting ties with Iran etc, and I think that is where he wants to go for the future. 

Yep...seems like a regular ol' Long Duk Dong.

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6 minutes ago, Dolemite said:

Kim doesn't have much choice. HIs country is in ruins and his chief benefactor, China, has told him its time to change. Why did they tell him that? Because Trump is leaning on them with tariffs.

Even if he had a choice it's not logical to keep going down the same old path that his father and grandfather went down. It didn't get them anywhere. Why would he think it would be different for him?

My experience has been that people generally do what is in their perceived best interest. Surely Kim would rather be the top guy in a prosperous country than in the hell hole he currently operates in.

We will see, but I know one thing. Fucking Trump will get his way, one way or the other because he always has. Its how he operates. Unrelenting, and insufferable. 

 

China just won Singapore. They got everything they wanted. They played our president like a fiddle using Kim as a proxy.

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24 minutes ago, Dolemite said:

Kim doesn't have much choice. HIs country is in ruins and his chief benefactor, China, has told him its time to change. Why did they tell him that? Because Trump is leaning on them with tariffs.

Even if he had a choice it's not logical to keep going down the same old path that his father and grandfather went down. It didn't get them anywhere. Why would he think it would be different for him?

My experience has been that people generally do what is in their perceived best interest. Surely Kim would rather be the top guy in a prosperous country than in the hell hole he currently operates in.

We will see, but I know one thing. Fucking Trump will get his way, one way or the other because he always has. Its how he operates. Unrelenting, and insufferable. 

 

You’re right. When the salty sailor wants to grab some pussy he just does it because he always has. It’s how he operates.  Unrelenting, and insufferable. And scumbags like yourself will continue to cheer him on, even as our shitheel president as the representative leader of our apparently becoming a shitheel country. 

As Robert De NIro might say, and as hopefully the rest of the country will say soon in November:

 FUCK YOU. 

Nazi. 

Edited by JimmyJames
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Kim doesn't have much choice. HIs country is in ruins and his chief benefactor, China, has told him its time to change. Why did they tell him that? Because Trump is leaning on them with tariffs. Even if he had a choice it's not logical to keep going down the same old path that his father and grandfather went down. It didn't get them anywhere. Why would he think it would be different for him?

My experience has been that people generally do what is in their perceived best interest. Surely Kim would rather be the top guy in a prosperous country than in the hell hole he currently operates in.

 

 

 

Here’s the thing: You are ignoring the fact that opening up economic opportunities and globalizing to a degree, to Kim, poses a giant risk of being removed from power. So the “top guy in a prosperous country” may not be accurate or seen that way by Kim.

 

ETA: What is Kim’s current lifestyle? I mean, he doesn’t SEEM broke at all to me. I keep reading about his relative “squalor” as a motivator, but doesn’t he have about anything he wants at any time?

 

ETAA: His net worth is estimated at $7-10 BILLION. I don’t see the same motivation in him as others, I guess.

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1 hour ago, bolverk said:

"He seems like the type..." How could you possibly get that impression from a couple of meetings he had with Moon and Trump unless you've been swayed by talking heads who have a) never met him, b) made claims based on watching a tape, and c) a narrative they're parroting.

 

Dolomite is dumb as a post.    Moose out front...

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2 minutes ago, scottsins said:

 


Here’s the thing: You are ignoring the fact that opening up economic opportunities and globalizing to a degree, to Kim, poses a giant risk of being removed from power. So the “top guy in a prosperous country” may not be accurate or seen that way by Kim.

 

There are no really good parallels that I can think of (KJU = dear leader/god), but opening the society and economy of a repressive nation didn't seem to go very well with Gorbachev. Of course, the USSR was never nearly so repressive after Stalin nor China after Mao as North Korea. Both of those countries had a defined apparatus to choose their next leaders. North Korea has nothing of the sort. It's basically a dynastic, almost feudal, regime with no counterbalancing bureaucracy to ensure stability.

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5 minutes ago, scottsins said:

 

Here’s the thing: You are ignoring the fact that opening up economic opportunities and globalizing to a degree, to Kim, poses a giant risk of being removed from power. So the “top guy in a prosperous country” may not be accurate or seen that way by Kim.

 

ETA: What is Kim’s current lifestyle? I mean, he doesn’t SEEM broke at all to me. I keep reading about his relative “squalor” as a motivator, but doesn’t he have about anything he wants at any time?

We know the ability to have anything you want brought to you, isn't the end-all.  He can't go to a NBA game, or anywhere much. Normal conversion is probably hard to come by.

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1 minute ago, bolverk said:

There are no really good parallels that I can think of (KJU = dear leader/god), but opening the society and economy of a repressive nation didn't seem to go very well with Gorbachev. Of course, the USSR was never nearly so repressive after Stalin nor China after Mao as North Korea. Both of those countries had a defined apparatus to choose their next leaders. North Korea has nothing of the sort. It's basically a dynastic, almost feudal, regime with no counterbalancing bureaucracy to ensure stability.

Years ago I use to get my hair cut by a Korean lady. As a child, she escaped from North Korea along with a dozen or so others. They had to travel up a stream in the dead of night, in freezing weather and pass underneath a bridge, where NK guards were posted. One of the women in the group had an infant. The mother knew and understood that if her infant made any noise what so ever that it was to be immediately pushed under the water and drowned. 

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4 minutes ago, scottsins said:

 


Here’s the thing: You are ignoring the fact that opening up economic opportunities and globalizing to a degree, to Kim, poses a giant risk of being removed from power. So the “top guy in a prosperous country” may not be accurate or seen that way by Kim.

 

You are right. Kim is not going to just throw everything open and embrace the global economy.  South Korea already has factories in NK near the DMZ. Whenever SK and NK get into a "serious" spat they are closed down for a bit by NK until things settle down.  Probably be a similar story for any company who opens a factory there. NK will allow a few foreign managers there to oversee things, but NK will basically control the factory and everything that happens there.  The NK workers will continue to get paid peanuts while Kim and his regime pocket the profits.  NK will shut down all operations anytime they feel slighted by the companies country of origin.  Any businesses allowed in will be tightly controlled. A regime that still puts people in prison camps for things their grandparents did decades ago is not suddenly going to embrace the modern world.

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3 minutes ago, Pods said:

Feeding people to dogs and blowing them up with anti-aircraft guns does have the side effect of making you slightly unapproachable. 

If you're the first one to stop clapping, you're toast.

But to that world he was born.  Now he's partied with the worm, and he'd probably like to hit some clubs with him to. 

So I listened to the art of the deal audio book, read by a guy with a trumpy voice.  the donald figures out what you want, and shows you how he can help you have it.

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7 minutes ago, Dolemite said:

Years ago I use to get my hair cut by a Korean lady. As a child, she escaped from North Korea along with a dozen or so others. They had to travel up a stream in the dead of night, in freezing weather and pass underneath a bridge, where NK guards were posted. One of the women in the group had an infant. The mother knew and understood that if her infant made any noise what so ever that it was to be immediately pushed under the water and drowned. 

This tragic anecdote is a perfect example of why many of us question Lil' Kim's ability to open up his country. Once you've gone far enough down that path, small and gradual openings don't work. Instead, North Korean society would be like a dam bursting, scouring and scrubbing all remnants of the former regime from the face of the earth. I think he knows that and will do everything he can to stay in power. He might choose a path that slowly opens the economy for better trade and wages, but he'll never give away his ultimate power over people's lives.

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3 minutes ago, Pods said:

The Donald figures out what the Donald wants and then flatters you to get it. If that doesn't work, he bullies you to get it. If that doesn't work, his brilliant strategy breaks down. 

Many people who know him would tell you otherwise.  He has some good qualities.

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The vast majority of people that have met Donald Trump have said he is exactly the same asshole that he appears to be on TV and in print. 

"Trump is less a person than a collection of terrible traits." Gary Cohn. 

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15 minutes ago, bolverk said:

This tragic anecdote is a perfect example of why many of us question Lil' Kim's ability to open up his country. Once you've gone far enough down that path, small and gradual openings don't work. Instead, North Korean society would be like a dam bursting, scouring and scrubbing all remnants of the former regime from the face of the earth. I think he knows that and will do everything he can to stay in power. He might choose a path that slowly opens the economy for better trade and wages, but he'll never give away his ultimate power over people's lives.

We've been told his people think he's a God

 

7 minutes ago, Pods said:

The vast majority of people that have met Donald Trump have said he is exactly the same asshole that he appears to be on TV and in print. 

"Trump is less a person than a collection of terrible traits." Gary Cohn. 

“[Trump] is a man who fears no one and nothing,” continued Priebus, “and there is absolutely nothing he’s intimidated by. . . . And that’s very rare in politics. Most people in politics are people who have sort of an approval addiction. Now, granted, President Trump does too, but he’s willing to weather one storm after the next to get to an end result that most people are not willing to weather. . . . He doesn’t mind the craziness, the drama, or the difficulty, as long as an end goal is in sight. He will endure it.”    

- Reince Priebus, months after Trump fired him, to Vanity Fair.

I just think our president is not as bad, or stupid, or as much of a pussy, as you believe him to be.  And there are plenty of people who have worked with him or know him pretty well, who really like and respect him. That goldman sachs banker you quoted; he doesn't resonate w me.

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2 minutes ago, Caracara said:

We've been told his people think he's a God

 

Which is precisely my point. If the man behind the kimono fears being exposed for what he actually is, he's not going to open it up to reveal his tiny prick for people to point and laugh at.

You seem to be under the illusion he's proud of what he's got. But, keep in mind, he was "educated in the West", so I'm pretty sure he knows he's not exactly packing the heat his people think he is. 

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2 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Which is precisely my point. If the man behind the kimono fears being exposed for what he actually is, he's not going to open it up to reveal his tiny prick for people to point and laugh at.

You seem to be under the illusion he's proud of what he's got. But, keep in mind, he was "educated in the West", so I'm pretty sure he knows he's not exactly packing the heat his people think he is. 

At the far reaches of my ideal, we could help provide him some security as he transitioned from actual ruler to something closer to a Ali Khamenei, then finally to the european style royal making PSAs and boosting morale.

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5 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

When you respond to a troll, the trolling is working. By definition. 

I'm not trolling man. It's just that Trump has got me thinking bigly.  Big ideas. Hotels with great views. luxury golf champagne wishes and caviar dreams

Edited by Caracara
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8 minutes ago, Caracara said:

I'm not trolling man. It's just that Trump has got me thinking bigly.  Big ideas. Hotels with great views. luxury golf champagne wishes and caviar dreams

Hell, if that's wrong I don't wanna be right. It's like the 80's all over again....

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1 hour ago, Caracara said:

At the far reaches of my ideal, we could help provide him some security as he transitioned from actual ruler to something closer to a Ali Khamenei, then finally to the european style royal making PSAs and boosting morale.

Fucking lulz.  This bullshit again.  Sure, people that were put into generational death camps by this guy are gonna listen to his fat ass talk about school lunches and internet bullying.

You are watching too many royal weddings.  You need to learn history.  Let's look at England in the 1600s.  In 1649, Charles 1 was executed and the monarchy was entirely done for a bit while Cromwell ruled a Star Wars type fascist republic.  When Cromwell died, Parliament brought Charles 2 out of mothballs, and he was alright for a while until he died.  His brother, James, sucked though, so Parliament removed him, stripped most of the King's remaining power and put his daughter Mary and her husband Bill on the throne.  After them,  you had Anne and George.  Parliament said enough, we can't be ruled by a fucking Danish guy, and had him sign away all power to what would become the Prime Minister.  That was in 1721.

And 300 years later, you're fawning over a royal wedding between a bunch of useless, but entertaining people whose family tree is a straight line.  The thing is that KJU isn't modern day Harry, or Prince Charles, or Elizabeth.  At best, he's Charles 1 who had his head handed to him, literally.

NK also isn't comparable to the Japanese Emperor.  While the Japanese Emperor treated Koreans and Chinese and everyone else in Asia like shit, they treated the Japanese people pretty well.  So when we beat their ass, while we were emptying their death camps of non-Japanese people, most of the conquered Japanese people thought they were the shit and everyone else sucked, so we needed the emperor to keep them under control.

KJU's best deal would be exile in China, but he wouldn't last long even there if his regime falls.

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The idea that you can swing open the gates of NK to the world and gracefully transition Kim from ruthless dictator to man-about-town is appallingly ignorant. 

If the people of NK had any taste of freedom, and if they gained enough strength and momentum to overcome any ingrained fear of reprisal, Kim would meet a fate like Ceausescu. 

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1 hour ago, woohorn said:

Kinda serious q- does the world still let these guys step down and live in "exile"?

Who was the last leader "exiled"?

How about Viktor Yanukovych, the Putin-friendly Ukrainian dictator represented by Manafort who was toppled and now lives in Russia? 

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8 hours ago, woohorn said:

Kinda serious q- does the world still let these guys step down and live in "exile"?

Who was the last leader "exiled"?

There is no one to take KJU's place. All the generals are old and have no birthright. Had their been others available to take over this would be a different situation.

KJU is only 34, and while he has done some things, most of the heavy lifting on the evil end was done by his father and grandfather. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Dolemite said:

There is no one to take KJU's place. All the generals are old and have no birthright. Had their been others available to take over this would be a different situation.

KJU is only 34, and while he has done some things, most of the heavy lifting on the evil end was done by his father and grandfather. 

 

Internally there's Kim's older brother, the Eric Clapton wannabe.   And China has his nephew, Kim Han Solo, squared away if it wants to replace him.  

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7 minutes ago, Dolemite said:

There is no one to take KJU's place. All the generals are old and have no birthright. Had their been others available to take over this would be a different situation.

KJU is only 34, and while he has done some things, most of the heavy lifting on the evil end was done by his father and grandfather. 

 

There is going to be no birthright ruler,  ornamental or otherwise, when this finally ends.  It's not gonna end like England or Japan's monarchy. Its gonna end like Russia or France. Remind me again, who would be Tsar right now?

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1 hour ago, Mojo Hand said:

Internally there's Kim's older brother, the Eric Clapton wannabe.   And China has his nephew, Kim Han Solo, squared away if it wants to replace him.  

That's interesting.  I wasn't aware of Kim Han Solo. Just looked him up

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14 hours ago, bolverk said:

There are no really good parallels that I can think of (KJU = dear leader/god), but opening the society and economy of a repressive nation didn't seem to go very well with Gorbachev. Of course, the USSR was never nearly so repressive after Stalin nor China after Mao as North Korea. Both of those countries had a defined apparatus to choose their next leaders. North Korea has nothing of the sort. It's basically a dynastic, almost feudal, regime with no counterbalancing bureaucracy to ensure stability.

I think they show this footage on the first day of class in Dictatorship 101. Ceaucescu had made a couple of concessions, and then emboldened one person in this crowd to finally scream "Fuck you" and next thing you know, he and the missus are getting shot to pieces. I read that the firing squad opened up before they were given the order to shoot, because they just couldn't wait. 

 

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4 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I think they show this footage on the first day of class in Dictatorship 101. Ceaucescu had made a couple of concessions, and then emboldened one person in this crowd to finally scream "Fuck you" and next thing you know, he and the missus are getting shot to pieces. I read that the firing squad opened up before they were given the order to shoot, because they just couldn't wait. 

 

There is a video of him being shot.  He deserved it.  And so did his wife.

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8 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

Any trumpkins gonna weigh in on the traitor saluting a NK general? I mean, I know that it was a tragedy if the highest order when Obama bowed to a Saudi king and when he had a coffee cup in hand deboarding Air Force one. So this, THIS has got to really piss them off, right?

Well I'm definitely not in favor of it, and wonder why a civilian would salute a military official, but a salute is not really the same as bowing to someone.  

"You salute the rank not the man", I'm sure I've heard that somewhere before.  Seriously though, Presidents/civilians aren't supposed to salute military personnel, 

A bow is typically perceived as an act of subservience.

But don't let me stand in your way at being pissed at Trump.

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Quote

Well I'm definitely not in favor of it, and wonder why a civilian would salute a military official, but a salute is not really the same as bowing to someone.  

I know this is going to be shocking to everyone on this forum, but I think you're missing the main point here.

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5 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Well I'm definitely not in favor of it, and wonder why a civilian would salute a military official, but a salute is not really the same as bowing to someone.  

"You salute the rank not the man", I'm sure I've heard that somewhere before.  Seriously though, Presidents/civilians aren't supposed to salute military personnel, 

A bow is typically perceived as an act of subservience.

But don't let me stand in your way at being pissed at Trump.

Just a reminder that the guy trying to justify Trump saluting a North Korean military official DEFINITELY didn't vote for him, you guys.

Edited by Chuckie Finster
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