Critical Race Theory policy in hiring at UT

[Dahobbs 17407]

21 minutes ago, Macklemore said:

You know that the exact same can be said about you and where you get your shit except sub in left-wing think tanks, publications and commentators. The line between opinion and news has become blurred to all of our detriment. Do you somehow only digest unbiased, unvarnished truth without spin? If so, where might I find it.

For starters, don't get all your news from the "opinion" and "editorial" sections of news sites.  Reuters and AP are pretty good sources for just fact reporting. However, there is a subset of this board that feels even reporting on topic, even if everything is factual, is also a form of spin. That sort of "spin" may be unavoidable to a large degree. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

3 hours ago, Poe It Up said:

Considering race relations are getting worse by the day, I wonder if the folks pushing stuff like CRT ever think they might need a change in approach. It doesn’t appear to be working. 

75 million people voted for a dude whose entire platform was “brown people are rapists.”

But yeah, tell us about your concerns with the current state of affairs for race relations and by all means point fingers at the culprits.

[Horn of Gabriel 1584]

20 minutes ago, TheFlyingBoat said:

Reuters is pretty solid given they're just a wire service. Brookings is good for middle of the road think thank pieces. If you want decent news commentary on TV, I suggest going Jake Tapper, Fareed Zakaria, and Chris Wallace. Each of them has their own biases but at least they're intelligent and you know what their biases are and will generally learn something listening to them (but by and large cable TV should be avoided). 

Just a friendly reminder that however biased or not Fareed Zakaria is, he is still a plagiarist.

[Dahobbs 17407]

46 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

well duh...Numbers are RACIST!

Saying that racism exists in mathematics instruction doesn't imply that mathematics itself contains racism. As an example, for a very long time women were thought incapable of intellectually of learning higher mathematics. They were precluded and discouraged from even attempting to do so. That is an example of sexism that existed in mathematics instruction. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Dahobbs

[Horn of Gabriel 1584]

13 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Anti-racism refers to action against racism. It is true that Kendi has adapted the term for a more specific set of ideas. Discrimination just means to treat groups differently, and I don't have any conceptual issue with policies that try to counteract hundreds of years of racist policies by affirmatively lifting up the victims of those policies. Things like financial aid or other benefits specifically for minorities are types of policies I'm generally in favor of and could be categorized as antiracist discrimination. However, the devil is the details and I may agree with some such policies and not others. I don't have a clear understanding of what Kendi's proposed Constitutional Amendment would do, so I don't really have an opinion on it. 

Now we are getting somewhere!  Kendi hasn't to my knowledge expanded more on this amendment, but it sounds pretty horrific to me, an unelected department with veto power over laws at every level and the ability to somehow punish those who talk wrongly.  Yikes.

You want to affirmatively lift up those who have been pushed down by policy; a laudable goal.   How far back do you want to go?  Are we lifting those up pushed down by policy today (I'd argue for fixing the bad policy itself first if it hasn't been addressed) or are we redressing old policies?  If old, does the person pushed down still need to be alive and suffering or do we extend that grace to their children?  Their children's children's children?  Is the goal to create equality of opportunity or equity of result?  If equity, do you, like Kendi, put 100% of the differences in outcomes between races on racist policies?  If so, how do we account for certain subgroups of BIPOC achieving at much higher rates than the mean of the group, such as the Nigerian-Americans and Cuban-Americans cited upthread?

[Celery Man 20832]

I had some first semester freshman interest group philosophy class where I needed to interview someone about how certain philosophical concepts or considerations came up in their work. I interviewed my uncle, who has been teaching mathematics at Texas for probably 35-40 years. I mostly did that because he was someone with a job and a convenient office, but I was fairly amazed with how much he had to say about inclusivity and morality as it relates to teaching math.

[Neonmoon 38127]

There’s no way I’m going to let my kid be taught about slavery and Jim Crow. Things in the past don’t affect the present. I live in the upper right  quadrant of Dan Crenshaw’s district and we believe in everyone being treated equally. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3438]

7 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

I have already admitted there is a harmful legacy of slavery and Jim Crow.  I am ready to pay reparations to remedy the legacy effects of those harmful Democratic policies.  Are you?  I support reparations.  Then let's all move the fuck on with no more bitching.

 

 

[workswithseed 2028]

43 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

There’s no way I’m going to let my kid be taught about slavery and Jim Crow. Things in the past don’t affect the present. I live in the upper right  quadrant of Dan Crenshaw’s district and we believe in everyone being treated equally. 

See, I'm going to do the opposite. Mine are going to watch me flog myself for what my ancestors did. If they don't do the same, I'll call them racists till they do they right thing. I live in Multnomah County and we believe we're better than all races and we must flog ourselves for being so.

[Dahobbs 17407]

1 hour ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

Now we are getting somewhere!  Kendi hasn't to my knowledge expanded more on this amendment, but it sounds pretty horrific to me, an unelected department with veto power over laws at every level and the ability to somehow punish those who talk wrongly.  Yikes.

You want to affirmatively lift up those who have been pushed down by policy; a laudable goal.   How far back do you want to go?  Are we lifting those up pushed down by policy today (I'd argue for fixing the bad policy itself first if it hasn't been addressed) or are we redressing old policies?  If old, does the person pushed down still need to be alive and suffering or do we extend that grace to their children?  Their children's children's children?  Is the goal to create equality of opportunity or equity of result?  If equity, do you, like Kendi, put 100% of the differences in outcomes between races on racist policies?  If so, how do we account for certain subgroups of BIPOC achieving at much higher rates than the mean of the group, such as the Nigerian-Americans and Cuban-Americans cited upthread?

How far back do you want to go? - As far as is necessary

Are we lifting those up pushed down by policy today (I'd argue for fixing the bad policy itself first if it hasn't been addressed) or are we redressing old policies? - Both.

If old, does the person pushed down still need to be alive and suffering? - No. 

do we extend that grace to their children?  Their children's children's children? - As far as is necessary.

Is the goal to create equality of opportunity or equity of result? - when talking about statistics of large populations as opposed to individuals, I'm not sure there is a difference.  

If equity, do you, like Kendi, put 100% of the differences in outcomes between races on racist policies? - Outcomes of individuals, certainly not. For statistically significant differences among broad groups, I'm more inclined to think that the vast majority of differences stem either from racist policies past or present.    

If so, how do we account for certain subgroups of BIPOC achieving at much higher rates than the mean of the group, such as the Nigerian-Americans and Cuban-Americans cited upthread? - The more you slice and dice a group, the more differences become amplified and result in deviations. Also:

 

[jimmyjazz 45428]

3 hours ago, Macklemore said:

You remind me of hpslugga getting lost in the weeds when it comes to the evolution of the spread offense when it comes to CRT.

What is your former shaggy/surly username, just so we have a frame of reference?

[Royalfan5 2344]

2 hours ago, TheFlyingBoat said:

Reuters is pretty solid given they're just a wire service. Brookings is good for middle of the road think thank pieces. If you want decent news commentary on TV, I suggest going Jake Tapper, Fareed Zakaria, and Chris Wallace. Each of them has their own biases but at least they're intelligent and you know what their biases are and will generally learn something listening to them (but by and large cable TV should be avoided). 

Reuters often uses me as source so they’ve got to be good right?

[Horn of Gabriel 1584]

 

Quote

 

Is the goal to create equality of opportunity or equity of result? - when talking about statistics of large populations as opposed to individuals, I'm not sure there is a difference.  

 

I'd characterize it as are we looking forward or backward.

 

Quote

If equity, do you, like Kendi, put 100% of the differences in outcomes between races on racist policies? - Outcomes of individuals, certainly not. For statistically significant differences among broad groups, I'm more inclined to think that the vast majority of differences stem either from racist policies past or present.    

At the risk of cloaking this further, if you have nail everything looks like a hammer.  Let's say that this...lacks imagination and there may be lots of reasons beyond government policies to account for differences between groups.

10 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

If so, how do we account for certain subgroups of BIPOC achieving at much higher rates than the mean of the group, such as the Nigerian-Americans and Cuban-Americans cited upthread? - The more you slice and dice a group, the more differences become amplified and result in deviations. Also:

 

LOL are you suggesting that, assuming an achievement gap exists for Nigerian-Americans vs. AA as a whole, that Nigerian-Americans is too fine-grained a slice to statistically represent?  That's...interesting.

This is too CR already and everyone's entrenched into familiar positions.  I'll close my participation by stating my opinion, which is that closing the wealth gap programmatically is not feasible, and will not have enough political support in my lifetime to perform once we move from generalities that everyone gets behind ("let's raise up AA to redress past wrongs!") to specifics ("The gov't is going to spend $12 trillion to cut direct payment cheques to AA and those who identify as AA [for at least 12 years], raising taxes significantly for you and your kids to pay off").  

To tie this back to the OP, I and apparently others believe that CRT and it's execution vehicle DEI are a stalking horse for reparations - if you convince the world that if you're white, you're racist, then you must "feel bad," "check your privilege," and assign any difference between groups as a result of your (in)action and lack of antiracism, so reparations are the logical end step to the journey.  Except I'm not convinced if we cut $12 trillion in direct payments as Sandy Darity suggests in the video above that it would be the end of anything.  It would be the beginning.

I'll hang up and await being called racist...

[Serak The Preparer 3421]

12 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

What is your former shaggy/surly username, just so we have a frame of reference?

Think tailored jerseys, crystal meth, shooting people with rubber bullets for fun, and an extreme fetish for Tucker.

[jimmyjazz 45428]

Just now, Serak The Preparer said:

Think tailored jerseys, crystal meth, shooting people with rubber bullets for fun, and an extreme fetish for Tucker.

Oh damn.  Guess I should have spotted that one.

[Beau Vine 53846]

On 5/19/2021 at 4:37 PM, PHLaggie said:

CRT is an evolution of postmodernism and of cultural Marxism-- the modifier "cultural" to Marxism being needed since Marxism deals primarily with issues of money (haves vs have nots) whereas CRT (and certain thinkers in postmodernism) puts the Marxist trope onto race. 

There is adequately detailed information available on CRT by cogent thinkers online; it's not hard to understand that it is at its core a divisive ideology.

Quote

At the chilling climax of William S. Lind’s 2014 novel “Victoria,” knights wearing crusader’s crosses and singing Christian hymns brutally slay the politically correct faculty at Dartmouth College, the main character’s (and Mr. Lind’s) alma mater. “The work of slaughter went quickly,” the narrator says. “In less than five minutes of screams, shrieks and howls, it was all over. The floor ran deep with the bowels of cultural Marxism.”

What is “cultural Marxism”? And why does Mr. Lind fantasize about its slaughter?

Nothing of the kind actually exists. But it is increasingly popular to indict cultural Marxism’s baleful effects on society — and to dream of its violent extermination. With a spate of recent violence in the United States and elsewhere, calling out the runaway alt-right imagination is more urgent than ever.

Originally an American contribution to the phantasmagoria of the alt-right, the fear of “cultural Marxism” has been percolating for years through global sewers of hatred. Increasingly, it has burst into the mainstream. Before President Trump’s aide Rich Higgins was fired last year, he invoked the threat of “cultural Marxism” in proposing a new national security strategy. In June, Ron Paul tweeted out a racist meme that employed the phrase. On Twitter, the son of Jair Bolsonaro, Brazil’s newly elected strongman, boasted of meeting Steve Bannon and joining forces to defeat “cultural Marxism.” Jordan Peterson, the self-help guru and best-selling author, has railed against it too in his YouTube ruminations.

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“Cultural Marxism” is also a favorite topic on Gab, the social media network where Robert Bowers, the man accused of shooting 11 people at a synagogue in Pittsburgh last month, spent time. Mr. Lind may have only fantasized about mass death as a comeuppance for cultural Marxists, but others have acted on it: In his 1,500-page manifesto, the Norwegian far-rightist Anders Breivik, who killed 77 people in 2011, invoked “cultural Marxism” repeatedly. “It wants to change behavior, thought, even the words we use,” he wrote. “To a significant extent, it already has.”

According to their delirious foes, “cultural Marxists” are an unholy alliance of abortionists, feminists, globalists, homosexuals, intellectuals and socialists who have translated the far left’s old campaign to take away people’s privileges from “class struggle” into “identity politics” and multiculturalism. Before he executes the professors, the protagonist of Mr. Lind’s novel expounds on his theory to their faces: “Classical Marxists, where they obtained power, expropriated the bourgeoisie and gave their property to the state,” he says. “Where you obtained power, you expropriated the rights of white men and gave special privileges to feminists, blacks, gays, and the like.” It is on the basis of this parallel that the novel justifies carnage against the “enemies of Christendom” as an act showing that “Western culture” is “recovering its will.”

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Some Marxists, like the Italian philosopher Antonio Gramsci and his intellectual heirs, tried to understand how the class rule they criticized worked through cultural domination. And today, it’s true that on campus and off, many people are directing their ire at the advantages that white males have historically enjoyed. But neither the defense of the workers nor of other disempowered groups was a conspiracy on its own, and never was there a malignant plot to convert the first into the second — which is what “cultural Marxism” implies. Deployed to avoid claims of injustice, the charge functions to whip up agitated frenzy or inspire visions of revenge.

And while increasingly popular worries about cosmopolitan elites and economic globalization can sometimes transcend the most noxious anti-Semitism, talk of cultural Marxism is inseparable from it. The legend of cultural Marxism recycles old anti-Semitic tropes to give those who feel threatened a scapegoat.

A number of the conspiracy theorists tracing the origins of “cultural Marxism” assign outsize significance to the Frankfurt School, an interwar German — and mostly Jewish — intellectual collective of left-wing social theorists and philosophers. Many members of the Frankfurt School fled Nazism and came to the United States, which is where they supposedly uploaded the virus of cultural Marxism to America. These zany stories of the Frankfurt School’s role in fomenting political correctness would be entertaining, except that they echo the baseless allegations of tiny cabals ruling the world that fed the right’s paranoid imagination in prior eras.

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The wider discourse around cultural Marxism today resembles nothing so much as a version of the Judeobolshevik myth updated for a new age. In the years after the Russian Revolution, fantasists took advantage of the fact that many of its instigators were Jewish to suggest that people could save time by equating Judaism and communism — and kill off both with one blow. As the historian Paul Hanebrink recounts in an unnerving new study, according to the Judeobolshevik myth, the instigators of communism were the Jews as a whole, not some tiny band of thinkers, conniving as a people to bring communist irreligion and revolution worldwide.

The results of such beliefs weren’t pretty. According to Professor Hanebrink, many aspects of the Judeobolshevik fantasy survived the Holocaust it helped bring about, just with the role of the Jews implied more euphemistically or replaced by new adversaries. As in Judeobolshevism, cultural Marxism homogenizes vast groups of shadowy enemies and assigns them a secret design to upend society. As in Judeobolshevism, those supposedly under threat are invited to identify themselves with “the Christian West” and surge in self-defense before it is too late.

The defense of the West in the name of “order” and against “chaos,” which really seems to mean unjustifiable privilege against new claimants, is an old affair posing as new insight. It led to grievous harm in the last century. And though today’s critics of “cultural Marxism” purport to be very learned, they proceed seemingly unaware of the heavy baggage involved in alleging that conspiracies have ruined the land.

That “cultural Marxism” is a crude slander, referring to something that does not exist, unfortunately does not mean actual people are not being set up to pay the price, as scapegoats to appease a rising sense of anger and anxiety. And for that reason, “cultural Marxism” is not only a sad diversion from framing legitimate grievances but also a dangerous lure in an increasingly unhinged moment.

Opinion | The Alt-Right’s Favorite Meme Is 100 Years Old - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

[Dahobbs 17407]

8 minutes ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

 

I'd characterize it as are we looking forward or backward.

 

At the risk of cloaking this further, if you have nail everything looks like a hammer.  Let's say that this...lacks imagination and there may be lots of reasons beyond government policies to account for differences between groups.

LOL are you suggesting that, assuming an achievement gap exists for Nigerian-Americans vs. AA as a whole, that Nigerian-Americans is too fine-grained a slice to statistically represent?  That's...interesting.

This is too CR already and everyone's entrenched into familiar positions.  I'll close my participation by stating my opinion, which is that closing the wealth gap programmatically is not feasible, and will not have enough political support in my lifetime to perform once we move from generalities that everyone gets behind ("let's raise up AA to redress past wrongs!") to specifics ("The gov't is going to spend $12 trillion to cut direct payment cheques to AA and those who identify as AA [for at least 12 years], raising taxes significantly for you and your kids to pay off").  

To tie this back to the OP, I and apparently others believe that CRT and it's execution vehicle DEI are a stalking horse for reparations - if you convince the world that if you're white, you're racist, then you must "feel bad," "check your privilege," and assign any difference between groups as a result of your (in)action and lack of antiracism, so reparations are the logical end step to the journey.  Except I'm not convinced if we cut $12 trillion in direct payments as Sandy Darity suggests in the video above that it would be the end of anything.  It would be the beginning.

I'll hang up and await being called racist...

You asked questions. I answered them. Go ahead and throw your pity party, take your ball and go home. I don't care. You aren't that interesting. 

[Beau Vine 53846]

On 5/19/2021 at 5:28 PM, We’reTexas said:

Cash bail

jesus is DT Texags now?

Where you been?

[dcar00 14002]

59 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

How far back do you want to go? - As far as is necessary

Are we lifting those up pushed down by policy today (I'd argue for fixing the bad policy itself first if it hasn't been addressed) or are we redressing old policies? - Both.

If old, does the person pushed down still need to be alive and suffering? - No. 

do we extend that grace to their children?  Their children's children's children? - As far as is necessary.

Is the goal to create equality of opportunity or equity of result? - when talking about statistics of large populations as opposed to individuals, I'm not sure there is a difference.  

If equity, do you, like Kendi, put 100% of the differences in outcomes between races on racist policies? - Outcomes of individuals, certainly not. For statistically significant differences among broad groups, I'm more inclined to think that the vast majority of differences stem either from racist policies past or present.    

If so, how do we account for certain subgroups of BIPOC achieving at much higher rates than the mean of the group, such as the Nigerian-Americans and Cuban-Americans cited upthread? - The more you slice and dice a group, the more differences become amplified and result in deviations. Also:

 

So who gets to determine what is as far as is necessary.

[Dahobbs 17407]

2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

So who gets to determine what is as far as is necessary.

It is a general philosophical statement. I wasn't trying to write a comprehensive policy on implementing the end of systemic racism. Ideally an actual policy would incorporate objective criteria to determine when the policy had fulfilled it's objective. 

[Horn of Gabriel 1584]

You asked questions. I answered them. Go ahead and throw your pity party, take your ball and go home. I don't care. You aren't that interesting. 

LOL right back atcha. I told you like I see it also. And because this is an online political thread: get fucked you Nazi cuck bitch

[Hunt Stevenson 41]

4 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

School administration policies don't get created or implemented by professional conferences. If there is a specific official school policy that mandates teaching CRT to students, by all means point that out. You're also conflating anti-racism as a general idea (why would you even be against that?) with CRT.

Why would you be against anti-fascism?  I mean we all dislike fascists.  So antifa has to be great   

 

[Dahobbs 17407]

1 minute ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

LOL right back atcha. I told you like I see it also. And because this is an online political thread: get fucked you Nazi cuck bitch

Yes, clearly you were interested in sincere discussion. I actually tried to engage you honestly and your immediate response was to announce you wouldn't be participating anymore and then hurl insults. 

[Dahobbs 17407]

Just now, Hunt Stevenson said:

Why would you be against anti-fascism?  I mean we all dislike fascists.  So antifa has to be great   

 

Yes, anti fascism as a concept is good.  Antifa as a movement has good qualities and bad qualities. Some organizations that identify themselves as antifa are good. Some are not. 

[Hunt Stevenson 41]

3 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

75 million people voted for a dude whose entire platform was “brown people are rapists.”

But yeah, tell us about your concerns with the current state of affairs for race relations and by all means point fingers at the culprits.

This is a really stupid post.  

[dcar00 14002]

8 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

It is a general philosophical statement. I wasn't trying to write a comprehensive policy on implementing the end of systemic racism. Ideally an actual policy would incorporate objective criteria to determine when the policy had fulfilled it's objective. 

sure, like the people who want to write an ideal policy about systemic racism would actually define an objective end to it.  I'm sure you understand the goal of idiots and racists such as Kendi are to never have an objective end.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

Just now, dcar00 said:

sure, like the people who want to write an ideal policy about systemic racism would actually define an objective end to it.  I'm sure you understand the goal of idiots and racists such as Kendi are to never have an objective end.

No money in that.  Or the billions spent yearly in academia on make work jobs for _____ Studies degrees that require zero academic rigor.  

[Dahobbs 17407]

6 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

sure, like the people who want to write an ideal policy about systemic racism would actually define an objective end to it.  I'm sure you understand the goal of idiots and racists such as Kendi are to never have an objective end.

Ok.

[Catdaddyhorn 3438]

1 hour ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

 

I'd characterize it as are we looking forward or backward.

 

At the risk of cloaking this further, if you have nail everything looks like a hammer.  Let's say that this...lacks imagination and there may be lots of reasons beyond government policies to account for differences between groups.

LOL are you suggesting that, assuming an achievement gap exists for Nigerian-Americans vs. AA as a whole, that Nigerian-Americans is too fine-grained a slice to statistically represent?  That's...interesting.

This is too CR already and everyone's entrenched into familiar positions.  I'll close my participation by stating my opinion, which is that closing the wealth gap programmatically is not feasible, and will not have enough political support in my lifetime to perform once we move from generalities that everyone gets behind ("let's raise up AA to redress past wrongs!") to specifics ("The gov't is going to spend $12 trillion to cut direct payment cheques to AA and those who identify as AA [for at least 12 years], raising taxes significantly for you and your kids to pay off").  

To tie this back to the OP, I and apparently others believe that CRT and it's execution vehicle DEI are a stalking horse for reparations - if you convince the world that if you're white, you're racist, then you must "feel bad," "check your privilege," and assign any difference between groups as a result of your (in)action and lack of antiracism, so reparations are the logical end step to the journey.  Except I'm not convinced if we cut $12 trillion in direct payments as Sandy Darity suggests in the video above that it would be the end of anything.  It would be the beginning.

I'll hang up and await being called racist...

I'm struggling to understand why it is odd to you that Nigerians don't suffer from systemic racial policies that took place before they were ever allowed to enter the country. And why does the existence of Nigerian success befuddled you as to how those racist policies affect American descendents of slavery, Jim crow, and the myriad of racist policies throughout American history?  Are you under some weird belief that there were 0 consequences from generations ofbracist policies? You can literally take redlining maps from the 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s and trace them perfectly along impoverished and high crime areas today and have perfect alignment. Why would Nigerians immigrants (or any black immigrants) be affected by that sort of trauma? You should no more expect Nigerian immigrants to be affected by that specific set of racial trauma than one would expect Slavic immigrants to be affected by it. You have a poor understanding of the black American experience and have a woeful lack of understanding (or curiosity for that matter) of how that experience might still affect folks today. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Catdaddyhorn

[Pancho 44183]

4 hours ago, dcar00 said:

appropriate discipline meaning elementary education degrees.

You're pretty simple if you believe this is only being used as a framework in elementary education degrees.  Is there evidence this theory is overly popular with those dissertation and thesis topics?

[dcar00 14002]

2 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

There’s no way I’m going to let my kid be taught about slavery and Jim Crow. Things in the past don’t affect the present. I live in the upper right  quadrant of Dan Crenshaw’s district and we believe in everyone being treated equally. 

who is saying not to teach about slavery and Jim Crow? it was taught when I when I was in high school.  Columbus, Jamestown, massacre of Indians, revolution, slave trade/routes, slavery, southern plantations, underground railroad, civil war, 3/5ths compromise, Jim Crow, civil rights movement, etc.  the whole good and bad.  not one person who comes out of that teaching understands how black people were treated for 200+ years.

[Pancho 44183]

3 hours ago, Apep said:

There are different CRT frameworks. PSU Education Professor Uju Anya posted one on Twitter recently.

 

 

Yes.  You're making my point, though.

[dcar00 14002]

16 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Yes, anti fascism as a concept is good.  Antifa as a movement has good qualities and bad qualities. Some organizations that identify themselves as antifa are good. Some are not. 

this is ridiculous.  there is nothing good about Antifa as an organization.

[washparkhorn 9931]

1 hour ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

It would be the beginning.

Of what? 

[Pancho 44183]

7 hours ago, CDAK said:

Is there a clean distinction that you can provide?

My company's HR/DEI team has brought Dr. Kendi to talk to us twice (virtually). Isn't he a CRT guy? I think my perspective is that DEI initiatives certainly can be based on something other than CRT. But at least some DEI initiatives are based on CRT and are in corporate HR departments.

If I'm writing a research paper and using CRT as a framework, then no, I'm not citing Kendi.  Kendi is more Anti-Racist.  That's not what CRT is analyzing.  With that said, I can see why Kendi was brought in to speak to your company based on his background. 

Which specific DEI initiatives are based on CRT?  

[washparkhorn 9931]

5 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

there is nothing good about Antifa

Get that stick out of your eye.

[Dahobbs 17407]

5 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

this is ridiculous.  there is nothing good about Antifa as an organization.

It isn't one organization. But I don't expect an honest evaluation by you. It is your boogieman, along with CRT apparently. I'm sure you also trade horror stories of liberals and their evil plots to over throw the government and install Marxism. It is all made up nonsense of course. But you're long past capable of accepting that. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3438]

10 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

who is saying not to teach about slavery and Jim Crow? it was taught when I when I was in high school.  Columbus, Jamestown, massacre of Indians, revolution, slave trade/routes, slavery, southern plantations, underground railroad, civil war, 3/5ths compromise, Jim Crow, civil rights movement, etc.  the whole good and bad.  not one person who comes out of that teaching understands how black people were treated for 200+ years.

And as is often demonstrated in these forums most people come out of it without relative context and believe it magically ended in 1954 and was relegated to southern states. Turns out summing up the black experience in America to  slavery, Jim crow, and MLK does a pretty piss poor job of educating people.  

[Michael Knight 12852]

27 minutes ago, Hunt Stevenson said:

This is a really stupid post.  

You're right he also hated black people

[dcar00 14002]

3 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Saying that racism exists in mathematics instruction doesn't imply that mathematics itself contains racism. As an example, for a very long time women were thought incapable of intellectually of learning higher mathematics. They were precluded and discouraged from even attempting to do so. That is an example of sexism that existed in mathematics instruction. 

yes, they pushed smart people not to take more advanced classes because of bigotry.  they didn't dumb down the classes once they did "allow" them to take them.  I'm sure you understand that what is being talked about is dumbing down a math and science curriculum because it has to be racist due to current outcomes.  its pretty strange because in most higher level math classes in middle and high school even the privileged white kids are a minority.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

4 hours ago, Pancho said:

For the 80th time, they are not being taught to elementary or middle school children. It’s just not clear why you keep going back to that. How many times must this be stated for comprehension to set in?
 

Those tenets ARE being taught in colleges and universities where CRT is a framework fit within the appropriate discipline.

For the 81st time, I said, I hope you are right. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I'm also acknowledging you have just said stuff without any proof or citation, as I earlier had asked. I mean, I'd like to know what informs you.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

3 hours ago, Celery Man said:

I had some first semester freshman interest group philosophy class where I needed to interview someone about how certain philosophical concepts or considerations came up in their work. I interviewed my uncle, who has been teaching mathematics at Texas for probably 35-40 years. I mostly did that because he was someone with a job and a convenient office, but I was fairly amazed with how much he had to say about inclusivity and morality as it relates to teaching math.

Now this is a thread you should start and a idea worth sharing #TEDxSurly

[dcar00 14002]

9 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

It isn't one organization. But I don't expect an honest evaluation by you. It is your boogieman, along with CRT apparently. I'm sure you also trade horror stories of liberals and their evil plots to over throw the government and install Marxism. It is all made up nonsense of course. But you're long past capable of accepting that. 

just like I'm sure you trade horror stories of your boogieman racists everywhere, militias ready to overthrow the govt and install a king, evil math courses, russian conspiracies, white privilege, etc.  all utter nonsense but you do you.

[Dahobbs 17407]

12 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

For the 81st time, I said, I hope you are right. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I'm also acknowledging you have just said stuff without any proof or citation, as I earlier had asked. I mean, I'd like to know what informs you.

You demand citations of others, but you're the one asserting that this is an actual problem. The burden is on you. 

[dcar00 14002]

19 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

And as is often demonstrated in these forums most people come out of it without relative context and believe it magically ended in 1954 and was relegated to southern states. Turns out summing up the black experience in America to  slavery, Jim crow, and MLK does a pretty piss poor job of educating people.  

no one my age was taught it ended magically in 1954.  a clue for you.  It is never going to end, magically or otherwise.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

24 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

You're right he also hated black people

His policies didn’t reflect that.  

[CDAK 216]

26 minutes ago, Pancho said:

If I'm writing a research paper and using CRT as a framework, then no, I'm not citing Kendi.  Kendi is more Anti-Racist.  That's not what CRT is analyzing.  With that said, I can see why Kendi was brought in to speak to your company based on his background. 

Which specific DEI initiatives are based on CRT?  

Bringing Kendi to talk to us and tell us about his philosophy and how we should adjust our behavior.

I thought Kendi was a CRT professor. So, a DEI initiative to bring a CRT professor to instruct us on how to behave and his philosophy would be a DEI initiative based on CRT.

If Kendi is not a CRT professor, great. In that case, I obviously don't understand the difference between antiracism, CRT, and how either one is reflected in DEI initiatives. We recently had a mandatory session on intersectionality that was taught by our HR dept. It seemed very familiar to the tenets of CRT that you and Donkey posted. But maybe there's a distinction that I'm missing. If there were clear distinctions someone could provide, that would probably help. 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

DEI, when the E stands for equity, is the Trojan horse for CRT.  Been dealing this with this at my kids’ private Christian school.  Where teachers lined up kids in class based on their skin color on a lesson about privilege.  Or read this poem, excerpted below, in chapel (the writer I believe went to St Agnes, not our school)

Poem excerpts:
“Others are living their privileged lives and couldn’t care less or seem to ignore the truth...
.....
Behind her brown eyes she walked down the halls and saw privilege smeared all over the poisonous walls..
.....
She’d befriended the rich white girls, walked into their mansions and would play pretend for the day, wishing she were them
And she hated herself for it, but at the end of the day would remember exactly who she was...
.....
Where did we go wrong?
...
It wasn’t until the pretty white boy wearing a MAGA hat called her fat
& Her rich white friends told her that her dreams were unattainable that she saw her passion diminish.
.....
But one day she grew up and realized most of the people she had known since she was 3 would never know the meaning of work ethic
Where did we go wrong?...
She was done asking bc that hurt her more
Than any police officer could
Than the hatred people had for her skin
The hatred she had for her own skin
More than the pretty white boys.”

 

[TwiceHorn 31085]

19 minutes ago, CDAK said:

Bringing Kendi to talk to us and tell us about his philosophy and how we should adjust our behavior.

I thought Kendi was a CRT professor. So, a DEI initiative to bring a CRT professor to instruct us on how to behave and his philosophy would be a DEI initiative based on CRT.

If Kendi is not a CRT professor, great. In that case, I obviously don't understand the difference between antiracism, CRT, and how either one is reflected in DEI initiatives. We recently had a mandatory session on intersectionality that was taught by our HR dept. It seemed very familiar to the tenets of CRT that you and Donkey posted. But maybe there's a distinction that I'm missing. If there were clear distinctions someone could provide, that would probably help. 

I mean, you are aware that UT has been bringing speakers on controversial subjects to campus for, I dunno, a hundred years or so?

Just like every other such speaker, people can take what they like and leave the rest.  DEI is not some indoctrination camp.

[CDAK 216]

7 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I mean, you are aware that UT has been bringing speakers on controversial subjects to campus for, I dunno, a hundred years or so?

Just like every other such speaker, people can take what they like and leave the rest.  DEI is not some indoctrination camp.

Yeah, of course. I’m not sure how that’s relevant. I was just trying to answer the question posed to me - what DEI initiative was based on CRT.