Jump to content

Teacher goes Rocko


Gil Bang

Recommended Posts

6 minutes ago, riloh05 said:

the coach is in sales. if his product is shit = no revenue, short job life. if his product is good = revenue. this is only for football. if a science teacher is shit they could remain employed by the district for years. if a science teacher is great no one is buying a ticket or concessions, the band and drill team arent marching around with their parents in the stands to watch the science teacher excel. not my economics. 

A: it's absolutely your economics. It's a school. i.e. a learning institution. Football is not a requirement for higher education. Science skills are.

 

Listen, I know you really want to defend your dad, but it doesn't mean football coaches deserve more pay for teaching a game to kids versus an actual teacher that teaches science to kids.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lulz at the idiocy of believing a public school district employee's compensation should in any way be based on revenue generation.

Well, to be more accurate the complete ignorance of the fact that education is the basis of nearly ALL revenue generation in modern society is what should be laughed at

  • Like 1
  • Fuck You 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, riloh05 said:

i glanced over it, probably the same way you glanced over the stipend portion. again taking LT, Katy, Allen, et al does not tell the story for the State of Texas...those are high profile programs with more incoming revenue than some district's tax deliverables.

See: Stephenville- Briles

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, honolulu horn said:

I'm sorry but I'm going to go back to this. Why would you expect to make the same as your friends who are working 50 weeks a year? I get that you said it in the context of retention -- the reality of making a low annual salary is irrefutably shitty -- but it's this sort of comparison argument that starts to lose the room.

Who said I expected to make the same as them? All I said was that I could not afford to do the same things as my friends without a second job. A simple, factual statement. The only reason I brought it up was because I was not retained as a teacher mostly due to pay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RPM said:

Listen, I know you really want to defend your dad, but it doesn't mean football coaches deserve more pay for teaching a game to kids versus an actual teacher that teaches science to kids.

my father was a very successful basketball coach (now retired). He has his masters which in Texas gets you a $1k/year raise as $500/year for no masters. The most he made is low/mid 70's in his last 4 years...That matters to TRS. The most money he made in his life is the year after he retired. There is no defense of my dad, but more of you have zero idea of what the dynamics are behind a coaches compensation. I am also of not paying teachers more (including if my dad was still teaching). I just havent seen the data to support more money. Lastly, in any decent negotiation real numbers are used, not more or less. All I see is more.

Edited by riloh05
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RPM said:

A: it's absolutely your economics. It's a school. i.e. a learning institution. Football is not a requirement for higher education. Science skills are.

there are a lot of life lessons taught in competitive sports at the hs level, not just football. i would believe to the avg student who didnt go into a scientific field, but played sports uses more of what they learned in athletics then what they learned in a hs science classroom- no facts, just my guess.

lots of things to learn in athletics...i.e. a learning institution. You must hate Longhorn Football based on your response to hs football coaches.

Edited by riloh05
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No kids here but pay plenty in school taxes. I see more than a few HISD schools being remodeled left and right if not outright being rebuilt next door to the old school.  I assume the teachers must be doin fine if they can choose to spend my Tax dollars on fancy schools.  If the teachers want a raise, that should have been addressed before the school spending spree started. 

  • Fuck You 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

No kids here but pay plenty in school taxes. I see more than a few HISD schools being remodeled left and right if not outright being rebuilt next door to the old school.  I assume the teachers must be doin fine if they can choose to spend my Tax dollars on fancy schools.  If the teachers want a raise, that should have been addressed before the school spending spree started. 

Do you even two buckets finance bro?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So let's say the state of Texas rolls out a standard pay for teachers similar to the federal GS system. Who will pay for the across the board pay increases? I am asking because it sounds like some are calling for a revamping of the entire public school structure.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Yeah, that's not how school finances work.

I could care less how school finance works but if the school board and superintendent decide to build more smaller high schools in HISD over salaries, they’re telling me that salaries are just fine.   I would rather they would have put the money in the teachers pockets but they decided not to.    And don’t bother telling me that the buildings were paid for via bonds, because tax dollars will ultimately pay for the whole thing.  Instead of higher salaries now, we are probably paying off new buildings from the 90s and 00s.    The new buildings today are the teachers raises in 2025.   

 

  • Fuck You 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, F250 said:

So let's say the state of Texas rolls out a standard pay for teachers similar to the federal GS system. Who will pay for the across the board pay increases? I am asking because it sounds like some are calling for a revamping of the entire public school structure.

 

 

How about we use the method many schools are adopting for arts programs. You want to take the class, you pay for the class. Of course that wouldn't fly at all for competitive athletics students/parents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, riloh05 said:

there are a lot of life lessons taught in competitive sports at the hs level, not just football. i would believe to the avg student who didnt go into a scientific field, but played sports uses more of what they learned in athletics then what they learned in a hs science classroom- no facts, just my guess.

lots of things to learn in athletics...i.e. a learning institution. You must hate Longhorn Football based on your response to hs football coaches.

Ah, the old I disagree with your public school spending assumption so I must hate the Horns. Couple of minor things, I love the Longhorns and I don't think HS coaches should make more than any other teacher.

 

Sports is sports. Education is what keeps us free. i.e. There's a short in the nav system of an F-22 and you have to calculate remaining fuel and distance to the target. Do you pass or run up the middle?

 

Trick question, you run the option.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, RPM said:

Ah, the old I disagree with your public school spending assumption so I must hate the Horns. Couple of minor things, I love the Longhorns and I don't think HS coaches should make more than any other teacher.

 

Sports is sports. Education is what keeps us free. i.e. There's a short in the nav system of an F-22 and you have to calculate remaining fuel and distance to the target. Do you pass or run up the middle?

 

Trick question, you run the option.

the usaf calls random hs grads on their cell to ask them the question or are their qualified folks who have earned the right to answer that question? seems like there are so many f-22 fuel calculating jobs open these days.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, riloh05 said:

the usaf calls random hs grads on their cell to ask them the question or are their qualified folks who have earned the right to answer that question? seems like there are so many f-22 fuel calculating jobs open these days.

How do you think those people became qualified?

Hint: It wasn't from going 9 - 1 and making the playoffs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, RPM said:

How do you think those people became qualified?

Hint: It wasn't from going 9 - 1 and making the playoffs.

and it wasnt from finishing high school science. the QB of the 9-1 team is probably the pilot of the f22.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RPM said:

How about we use the method many schools are adopting for arts programs. You want to take the class, you pay for the class. Of course that wouldn't fly at all for competitive athletics students/parents.

Well that doesn't sound sustainable. Do you have a realistic idea in mind?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Larry T. Spider said:

Man, there are some really uninformed opinions on this thread. 

No kidding.

I'll bet the majority who hold those opinions wouldn't make it very long in the classroom.

Poor parenting, idiotic politicians, lawyers, numbnut administrators, and clueless voters have all combined to shit on the classroom teacher for decades. I never complained about the pay, but the aforementioned have been the bane of teachers for at least a half century and apparently have worsened in recent years.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Eastwood said:
12 hours ago, riloh05 said:
and it wasnt from finishing high school science. the QB of the 9-1 team is probably the pilot of the f22.

Your results may vary.

 

giphy.gif

Now that I think of it, my buddy was the starting QB in H.S. and ended up piloting the A-10 in the Air Force. Although I don't think football had anything to do with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, F250 said:

 

giphy.gif

Now that I think of it, my buddy was the starting QB in H.S. and ended up piloting the A-10 in the Air Force. Although I don't think football had anything to do with it.

probably had as much to do with it as hs science lol...

Edited by riloh05
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

1 hour ago, Eastwood said:
12 hours ago, riloh05 said:
and it wasnt from finishing high school science. the QB of the 9-1 team is probably the pilot of the f22.

Your results may vary.

 

QB Sophomore year-  Elementary Principal (played in college)

QB Junior year- claims adjuster at Progressive (played in college)

QB Senor year-  Doctor 

 

So yes, results may vary................

Edited by JimmyHoffa
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 pages later... no data to support a wage increase. we do have a poster who thinks that some one who does more, manages more kids, takes on more responsibility should have the same pay as someone who doesnt take on those additional responsibilities. makes sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those of you that are actually interested in retaining quality teachers, work environment is the biggest key. You don't have to read all 24 pages to get the idea of why teachers quit. 

https://www.austinisd.org/sites/default/files/dre-reports/DRE_14.119_Sustaining_a_System_for_HighQuality_Teachers_Report_1.pdf

Edited to add that this is largely true in Texas. In states with lower pay (Oklahoma) that are physically close to areas with relatively good pay (Dallas), pay becomes much more of a factor. There is also research that indicates that lower pay is a large factor in not being able to recruit men to the profession. 

Edited by Larry T. Spider
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I could care less how school finance works but if the school board and superintendent decide to build more smaller high schools in HISD over salaries, they’re telling me that salaries are just fine.   I would rather they would have put the money in the teachers pockets but they decided not to.    And don’t bother telling me that the buildings were paid for via bonds, because tax dollars will ultimately pay for the whole thing.  Instead of higher salaries now, we are probably paying off new buildings from the 90s and 00s.    The new buildings today are the teachers raises in 2025.   

 

 

So everyone here is telling you that's not how teacher pay and teaching salary increases work, yet you refuse to believe it? 

Building new schools/buildings doesn't absolutely mean they don't care about teacher pay.  Moreover, [see below]

giphy.gif

 

Edited by Pancho Negro
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

Forget coaches, the freaking BAND director at my high school out earned most of the teachers. They were a really good band, but still.

Coaches ans band directors earn it though.  Coaches work pretty much every friday and saturday evening coaching or scouting.  They stay late several hours for practice, picking up and dropping off busses, run camps in the summer.  Pre season practice before school even starts.  Same with band.  Only the head fball coach is really getting rich and we all know the job security of coaches.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It’s pointless to argue with somebody that doesn’t have any understanding of the two buckets financing system in Texas. If a district spent building money on teachers people would  be fired or go to jail or both. It’s stupid but 30 seconds of reading will help people understand why districts are making the choices they are. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Teachers pay is like a lot of other topics it isn't as easy as "they are underpaid" or "they have summers off and don't need more money"

In some states teachers are absolutely getting bent over and should be paid more to attract and keep quality teachers, other states you have a 2nd grade PE teacher getting paid over $100K to show kids how to play kickball.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, RPM said:

A: it's absolutely your economics. It's a school. i.e. a learning institution. Football is not a requirement for higher education. Science skills are.

 

Listen, I know you really want to defend your dad, but it doesn't mean football coaches deserve more pay for teaching a game to kids versus an actual teacher that teaches science to kids.

giphy-facebook_s.jpg

Edited by GringoSalado
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

No kids here but pay plenty in school taxes. I see more than a few HISD schools being remodeled left and right if not outright being rebuilt next door to the old school.  I assume the teachers must be doin fine if they can choose to spend my Tax dollars on fancy schools.  If the teachers want a raise, that should have been addressed before the school spending spree started. 

The "school spending spree". Fucking LOL.

"Look at those fucking schools. Spending my goddamn tax dollars on building like chimps in a beatoff contest. They should be book-learnin' those fucking ingrate kids storage containers!"

Dumbass

Edited by irishtexan
  • Like 1
  • Fuck You 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Grandpa Simpson is right on the money.

 

Anyway, higher pay would attract a larger talent pool to hire teachers from. This is basic economics.

Better work environment, including better, more modern facilities, equipment, supplies, support, etc, as well as less being shat upon would improve retention.

Both are laudable goals, both goals would improve the quality of education. Both have easy solutions, but would cost money. Consider what is currently happening in Oklahoma, among other places, if you don't feel the expense is worth it.

One obvious way to pay for those costs is to get rid of organized sports. If a teenager wants to play a sport, he or she joins a league.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Larry T. Spider said:

Lol. Please Research how Texas school finance works. You are woefully uninformed.

You will read how it works and then understand why things are the way they are.

We have entered cloak room territory where I am being negged for suggesting people do their research on why schools often have pretty buildings but poor teacher pay. Its much easier to blame schools and neg away than doing the most absolute most basic research on the topic. I will offer this and then bow out of the conversation. 

Schools get money in two buckets. One is for people and the other is for buildings, technology, football stadiums, etc. You CANNOT spend building money on people or people money on buildings. The two buckets must stay separate. Districts can raise their own money through bonds for the building bucket but not the people bucket. Sounds stupid doesn't it? Well, thats because it is. From page one of this thread and every other on the topic, I tell people that if you don't understand the constraints on districts, they will always appear to be irrational actors and the conversation will turn into a pissing contest about nothing. Well, here we are

What I wrote on page 1:

I don't offer a lot of solutions, but I do think the school finance system should be priority one. It creates a lot of problems that trickle down to things like teacher pay. Also, the two buckets financing system means that (for the most part) districts can't raise their own money to pay teachers but they can to pay for a football stadium. 

.

 

If you would like more information about school finance and why things are the way they are, start here on page 7.

https://tea.texas.gov/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=2147511834

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

It’s pointless to argue with somebody that doesn’t have any understanding of the two buckets financing system in Texas. If a district spent building money on teachers people would  be fired or go to jail or both. It’s stupid but 30 seconds of reading will help people understand why districts are making the choices they are. 

Tell me about districts being mandated to spend money on curriculum adoption, billions worth, every few years, for every subject. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, High Plains Drifter said:

Grandpa Simpson is right on the money.

 

Anyway, higher pay would attract a larger talent pool to hire teachers from. This is basic economics.

 

 

 

 

What number? I asked Larry what number would have retained his services- no answer. The problem is that a talented teacher being talented in the private sector simply will create a ceiling for themselves by staying in education. So what is the number for higher pay if $50k is the average?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm convinced some of you arguing against higher teacher pay have the poors and fear their salaries may outpace yours someday.

By any standard they're underpaid for a college educated employee with 15+ years of longevity. Like that piece of shit Frank Lorenzo said, "A flight attendant should never make enough money to buy a home". Same applies to teachers I guess.

Wages have stagnated so long in this country you don't even know what your supposed to be paid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, riloh05 said:

What number? I asked Larry what number would have retained his services- no answer. The problem is that a talented teacher being talented in the private sector simply will create a ceiling for themselves by staying in education. So what is the number for higher pay if $50k is the average?

I don't know. I'm not a labor, education, economics person. But the sums I see posted on here and other places is horrifyingly low.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...