It’s coaching vs we need new players thread

[Brothahorn 10079]

Easiest thing to do is simply ask yourself who on our team would start at UGA,BAMA, or Ohio State? Pretty simple

Then you have to assume they would get better coaching at those schools. So there may be some starters.

[Landomatic 3813]

Cross posting as fits better for this thread…

I think some of y’all are missing the point on this whole talent thing. We should have better talent than the last 3 teams we played and lost to. Key word…should. We have better recruiting classes aka incoming talent. Don’t want to use recruiting rankings? Fine, what other metric should we use that fairly evaluates incoming talent across all teams? If we’re getting beat player to player, aka it looks like we don’t have the better talent (also known as just getting beat), then what’s the reason? Development? Conditioning? Scheme? Culture? Teaching? Mentality? Oh right…that’s ALL fucking coaching. We seem to have better talent at enough positions to beat those teams for a half a game. Or does Texas just get unlucky with our recruits being horribly overrated and the Baylors and ISUs get unbelievably lucky and land a ton of recruits who are all a bunch of underrated sleepers. Or…or…or…by process of elimination, if we should have the talent, could it just be that they’re better coached?

[bullet 1596]

4 minutes ago, Bigbend1812 said:

What does that have to do with beating OU, Okie St., Baylor, Iowa St. and Arkansas?

There aren't even many Ohio St. players who would start at Alabama and Georgia.

[Fuck Tim Beck 3778]

1 hour ago, Hook1997 said:

Just look at the oline and receivers, need players bad!   The ghost of Tom Lombardi couldn’t coach these players to a ten win season this year.  

All I know is Vince Landry ain't walking through the door. 

[hookem48 4603]

55 minutes ago, ApocalypseTexas said:

The players play uninspired and appear lazy and entitled.  It does not appear that the coaches hold the players responsible for their play and therefor they contribute and encourage the level uninspired and lazy play that we continue to see.  
 

This will continue until the right coaches make the hard decision to hold the players accountable and start cutting players that do not meet the standard.

 

I would hope it would be this staff but I doubt it happens.  The staff is just as comfortable and lazy as the players.

 

hold the players responsible how? The coaches have tried damn near every fucking player on the team and it's all suck.

[SarkAfterDark 1683]

Recruit rankings don't mean shit, they mean even less when the staff(previous) don't bother developing them. We have two good players. One would be good anywhere, the other was brought in by the new coach. 

[Landomatic 3813]

1 minute ago, hookem48 said:

hold the players responsible how?

With better coaching. Duh.

[hookem48 4603]

6 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

1 hour ago, RaysBoomBoomRoom said:

Easiest thing to do is simply ask yourself who on our team would start at UGA,BAMA, or Ohio State? Pretty simple

Then you have to assume they would get better coaching at those schools. So there may be some starters.

didn't about 4 of our coaches come from Bama?

[Codaxx 5405]

34 minutes ago, Publiushorn said:

A better question might be "how many of our players would start for Baylor?"

 

I'm sure they would take a few of our players (more than UGA or Ohio State), but it wouldn't be the amount that the recruiting rankings would indicate. I always remember watching LSU under Les Miles and it seemed like their talent won a lot of games in spite of their coaching. You can't say that about Texas much over the last 10 years. [Edit: that's not to say coaching hasn't been a major problem either]

 

With all that being said, I think a lot of the talent that we've acquired doesn't always fit what our coaches are trying to do schematically. That's also a coaching problem--you can't force a square peg in a round hole. Strong, Herman, and Sark have been guilty of that. On top of that, we don't develop talent once it gets on campus.

 

Sometimes I think we should commit to the College Football equivalent of a rebuild the Astros did under Luhnow. 

I think this is simplistic view. This is always a balancing act for a 1st year staff. Do you maximize the future, which would be sticking to practicing your systems, or do you maximize the present, abandoning your system and fitting it to the players. I think most coaches maximize the future, unless there is championships in sight and I don’t think this staff had visions of grandeur 

[Codaxx 5405]

2 minutes ago, hookem48 said:

hold the players responsible how? The coaches have tried damn near every fucking player on the team and it's all suck.

This.. how do you threaten players, when they know there isn’t anyone ready behind them 

[hookem48 4603]

Just now, Landomatic said:

With better coaching. Duh.

what the fuck does that mean? hold the players  responsible with better coaching?

[Brothahorn 10079]

didn't about 4 of our coaches come from Bama?

Not the right ones, apparently.

But point taken.

[texasstrong12 4668]

9 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

Cross posting as fits better for this thread…

I think some of y’all are missing the point on this whole talent thing. We should have better talent than the last 3 teams we played and lost to. Key word…should. We have better recruiting classes aka incoming talent. Don’t want to use recruiting rankings? Fine, what other metric should we use that fairly evaluates incoming talent across all teams? If we’re getting beat player to player, aka it looks like we don’t have the better talent (also known as just getting beat), then what’s the reason? Development? Conditioning? Scheme? Culture? Teaching? Mentality? Oh right…that’s ALL fucking coaching. We seem to have better talent at enough positions to beat those teams for a half a game. Or does Texas just get unlucky with our recruits being horribly overrated and the Baylors and ISUs get unbelievably lucky and land a ton of recruits who are all a bunch of underrated sleepers. Or…or…or…by process of elimination, if we should have the talent, could it just be that they’re better coached?

Texas won't have nearly as many NFL draft picks as Iowa State this year. 

Breece Hall, Charlie Kolar, Mike Rose, Will McDonald, and Greg Eisworth could potentially go in the first 5 rounds. Will we even have a pick in the first 5 rounds? Maybe Overshown. 

Then guys like Hutchinson and Purdy could very well be late round picks. 

Right now I see 1 potential draft pick for Texas this year. I dunno maybe Cook works into the late rounds. This could very well be 5 to 7 draft picks for Iowa State vs 1 for Texas. You are drastically overvaluing the talent on this roster compared to these teams. 

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by texasstrong12

[ATLLonghorn 821]

If you want to be literal, Texas is extremely deficient at some position groups like OL, LB and to compete at a high level QB and areas where we have talent we've been extremely disappointing (WR, DL) so it's a bit of both. The roster sucks, but man you don't get outscored 103-27 in the second halves of four straight games without everyone having a hand in that shit.

[Rockethorn1978 6059]

5 minutes ago, SarkAfterDark said:

Recruit rankings don't mean shit, they mean even less when the staff(previous) don't bother developing them. We have two good players. One would be good anywhere, the other was brought in by the new coach. 

And a good staff also would make said bad horrible players get better week to week and not look worse week to week. 
 

It’s amazing how some of y’all think we have 1 star tapps football players on campus. 

[Rockethorn1978 6059]

So when we are up 28-7 on ou we did it with great coaching and shitty players but when they blow a huge lead it’s shitty players not executing the offensive genius that is sark? Do some of y’all know football? Do you watch our zero adjustments and rolling out with the same shit knowing the other coach is about to change things up? Sark is fucking brutal at making halftime adjustments to the tune of 1 yard in the 4th to 0 points in the second half against alabam, I mean Iowa st.

[ISU Fan 2]

My observations are you have poor coaching and too many soft players. 

[texasstrong12 4668]

1 minute ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

So when we are up 28-7 on ou we did it with great coaching and shitty players but when they blow a huge lead it’s shitty players not executing the offensive genius that is sark? Do some of y’all know football? Do you watch our zero adjustments and rolling out with the same shit knowing the other coach is about to change things up? Sark is fucking brutal at making halftime adjustments to the tune of 1 yard in the 4th to 0 points in the second half against alabam, I mean Iowa st.

Why can't both be true?

Sark needs to be better at adjusting and the roster sucks. Iowa State is about to have 5 to 7 times as many NFL draft picks than us and people think we are more talented. Hell, we probably won't have as many draft picks in the next 3 years as Iowa State has this year. 

If there's this huge talent point me to the NFL players. 

[bschoolprof 6219]

Here are our top 5 returning players from defense last year in TFL per game, with their 2020 numbers (TFL per game):

Overshown - .80

Coburn - .45

Sweat - .40

Thompson - .30

Ojomo - .25

 

Here's the same group, same stats in 2021:

Overshown - .56, a 30% drop off

Coburn - .11, a 76% drop off

Sweat - .06, an 85% drop off

Thompson - .13, a 56% drop off

Ojomo - .22, a 12% drop off

 

Man these guys got a lot less talented this year.  We just need to recruit better.  

[Funk Doctor Spock 11608]

5 minutes ago, ISU Fan said:

My observations are you have poor coaching and too many soft players. 

We absolutely have too many fucking soft ass players. We had one dude (Roschon Johnson) ready to throw down last night. One. Every other dude is a gaping pussy. And yeah, we definitely have shitty coaches. You don't get worse each week with even an ok coach. Our coaches are fucking lepers

[SarkAfterDark 1683]

4 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

And a good staff also would make said bad horrible players get better week to week and not look worse week to week. 
 

It’s amazing how some of y’all think we have 1 star tapps football players on campus. 

How do you know the players are capable of getting better? I think the staff did what they could on offense after the Arky game. Once tape got out on how to shut that down what are we left with? Our OL can literally only block OZ and stretch plays. We have tried to run other plays to no avail, the OL can't execute it. They can barely get their hands on the defenders half the time. You don't think the WR's practice catching the ball? QBs staying in the pocket and going through reads. If these players are supposed to be as good as their recruit rankings they should be able to at least do the basic things that their position requires and they are barely capable of doing that. 

[hookem48 4603]

4 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

So when we are up 28-7 on ou we did it with great coaching and shitty players but when they blow a huge lead it’s shitty players not executing the offensive genius that is sark? Do some of y’all know football? Do you watch our zero adjustments and rolling out with the same shit knowing the other coach is about to change things up? Sark is fucking brutal at making halftime adjustments to the tune of 1 yard in the 4th to 0 points in the second half against alabam, I mean Iowa st.

what did Iowa State change in the second half?

[Landomatic 3813]

6 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Texas won't have nearly as many NFL draft picks as Iowa State this year. 

Breece Hall, Charlie Kolar, Mike Rose, Will McDonald, and Greg Eisworth could potentially go in the first 5 rounds. Will we even have a pick in the first 5 rounds? Maybe Overshown. 

Then guys like Hutchinson and Purdy could very well be late round picks. 

Right now I see 1 potential draft pick for Texas this year. I dunno maybe Cook works into the late rounds. This could very well be 5 to 7 draft picks for Iowa State vs 1 for Texas. You are drastically overvaluing the talent on this roster compared to these teams. 

Yeah and again, I think you’re missing the point. Are their players better? Sure hence why they beat us. But why?

Option 1) Baylor, OSU, Arkansas and Iowa St all just got incredibly lucky and hit on their 2-3 star guys and we’ve just been horribly unlucky missing with our 4-5 stars?

Option 2) Their coaches have been able to do more with their players than our coaches have, not to mention scheme, manage games, adjust better than our coaches?

Which is the more likely scenario? Here’s a hint, it ain’t option A

[hookem48 4603]

6 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

Here are our top 5 returning players from defense last year in TFL per game, with their 2020 numbers (TFL per game):

Overshown - .80

Coburn - .45

Sweat - .40

Thompson - .30

Ojomo - .25

 

Here's the same group, same stats in 2021:

Overshown - .56, a 30% drop off

Coburn - .11, a 76% drop off

Sweat - .06, an 85% drop off

Thompson - .13, a 56% drop off

Ojomo - .22, a 12% drop off

 

Man these guys got a lot less talented this year.  We just need to recruit better.  

amazing what happens when the other team doesn't have to worry about anyone.

[texasstrong12 4668]

Just now, Landomatic said:

Yeah and again, I think you’re missing the point. Are their players better? Sure hence why they beat us. But why?

Option 1) Baylor, OSU, Arkansas and Iowa St all just got incredibly lucky and hit on their 2-3 star guys and we’ve just been horribly unlucky missing with our 4-5 stars?

Option 2) Their coaches have been able to do more with their players than our coaches have, not to mention scheme, manage games, adjust better than our coaches?

Which is the more likely scenario? Here’s a hint, it ain’t option A

I don't know how you can argue Texas is more talented than a team that is about to have 5 to 7 times as many draft picks as us. 

The NFL drafts on raw talent. They don't give a shit if you play for a terrible team.

See our basketball team with all the first round picks and constant underachievement. Shaka was underachieving with "talent" because he actually had pro talent. The only justification people have for our talent is "recruiting rankings" but nobody in the NFL thinks we have raw talent. I dunno it's probably because we don't have raw talent. 

 

[Codaxx 5405]

4 minutes ago, hookem48 said:

what did Iowa State change in the second half?

You assume they changed things. It’s your opinion that they made major changes. Why don’t you tell us?

[Revolution512 1461]

30 minutes ago, hookem48 said:

hold the players responsible how? The coaches have tried damn near every fucking player on the team and it's all suck.

Exactly, we already play 3 walk-on players on defense 

[hookem48 4603]

Just now, Codaxx said:

You assume they changed things. It’s your opinion that they made major changes. Why don’t you tell us?

they didn't change jack shit, I'm not one of the guys coming up with all these make believe changes teams are making. Did you respond to the wrong person?

[Codaxx 5405]

Just now, hookem48 said:

they didn't change jack shit, I'm not one of the guys coming up with all these make believe changes teams are making. Did you respond to the wrong person?

My bad. Mixing people up

[Blotto 23226]

24 minutes ago, Ignatius said:

Maybe we’re overrating talent based on where they play in HS. I’m too lazy to look it up, but how many O lineman drafted in the 1st round in the last 15 years played high school in Texas?

2021 draft Texas had 33 players (2nd most to Florida) - 6 were OL https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/229-High-Schools-Have-Players-Selected-in-2021-NFL-Draft.aspx

2020 draft Texas had 34 players (first) - https://247sports.com/Article/NFL-Draft-2020-Jeff-Okudah-CeeDee-Lamb-Texas-high-school-football-146518252/

Most years is either TX or FL leading the way. There's plenty of talent in Texas, but plenty of schools coming here to recruit that talent as well. Per capita I presume we dont do as well. 

[hookem48 4603]

Just now, Codaxx said:

My bad. Mixing people up

easy to do

[TXpride 532]

7 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

Here are our top 5 returning players from defense last year in TFL per game, with their 2020 numbers (TFL per game):

Overshown - .80

Coburn - .45

Sweat - .40

Thompson - .30

Ojomo - .25

 

Here's the same group, same stats in 2021:

Overshown - .56, a 30% drop off

Coburn - .11, a 76% drop off

Sweat - .06, an 85% drop off

Thompson - .13, a 56% drop off

Ojomo - .22, a 12% drop off

 

Man these guys got a lot less talented this year.  We just need to recruit better.  

We have more than enough talent on the D-line. It was arguably the biggest strength of the team last season, and now they suck. Coordinators suck. Position coaches suck. S&C sucks. Scheme doesn't fit the personnel. Coaching staff doesn't fit with each other. It's almost like the whole thing is being run by a drunk.

[texasstrong12 4668]

3 minutes ago, TXpride said:

We have more than enough talent on the D-line. It was arguably the biggest strength of the team last season, and now they suck. Coordinators suck. Position coaches suck. S&C sucks. Scheme doesn't fit the personnel. Coaching staff doesn't fit with each other. It's almost like the whole thing is being run by a drunk.

Was the DL good last year or was Ossai a monster? 

There’s a lot of shifting opinions on this. Last year everyone was saying that Sweat and Coburn had regressed big time because they got too fat. 
 

Now they’re good? Sweat and Coburn are jags. All our edge players are jags. 

collins is talented but he’s not an edge player IMO. Ojomo has been the only consistent player. 
 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by texasstrong12

[hookem48 4603]

1 minute ago, TXpride said:

We have more than enough talent on the D-line. It was arguably the biggest strength of the team last season, and now they suck. Coordinators suck. Position coaches suck. S&C sucks. Scheme doesn't fit the personnel. Coaching staff doesn't fit with each other. It's almost like the whole thing is being run by a drunk.

we lost the guy that teams had to scheme against last year, coaches knew we had no one to replace him, we brought in some guys that haven't produced. it is what it is

[Rockethorn1978 6059]

23 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Why can't both be true?

Sark needs to be better at adjusting and the roster sucks. Iowa State is about to have 5 to 7 times as many NFL draft picks than us and people think we are more talented. Hell, we probably won't have as many draft picks in the next 3 years as Iowa State has this year. 

If there's this huge talent point me to the NFL players. 

No one said more talented I’ve said we have 4 and 5 star guys that aren’t coached before sark and obviously he isn’t helping them reach their peak. Coaches develop players. They don’t show up 5 star and leave nfl ready just because.

[texasstrong12 4668]

7 minutes ago, hookem48 said:

we lost the guy that teams had to scheme against last year, coaches knew we had no one to replace him, we brought in some guys that haven't produced. it is what it is

We bought into the off-season hype because we didn’t realize our OL was complete shit. 

But this DL is not good and the coaching staff knew it from the start which is why they’ve been loading up on DL. 

Bo Davis one of the best DL coaches in CFB now sucks. Funny how we keep turning great assistants into shitty coaches. 

Edited November 7, 2021 by texasstrong12

[hookem48 4603]

2 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

We bought into the off-season hype because we didn’t realize our OL was complete shit. 

But this DL is not good and the coaching staff knew it from the start which is why they’ve been loading up on DL. 

Bo Davis one of the best DL coaches in CFB now sucks. Funny how we keep turning great assistants into shitty coaches. 

I didn't buy into it, I knew we were going to be shitty

[General Specific 3148]

Lack of heart, fire, passion, drive, pride, will, whatever you want to call it, comes from a player themselves, not the coaches. Outside of three, possibly 5 players, who has displayed that when the chips are down on this team?

Who that has left in the last 4 years, has gone on to do something to show us we made a mistake in letting them go? One? Two? Good for them! Also, on the other side of that, good for us for those that didn’t want to be here. Thank you as well.

Coaches have a problem as well. Sure, they may seem to suck, as we have seen some boneheaded calls, player groupings and game management. What else are they going to call, as this team is severely limited in what it can execute consistently, at all.

Sure simplify it you say! This group has a hard time walking and chewing bubblegum in the first half, let alone, executing “adjustments” in the second half.

It sucks, we hate seeing it. The fact is, we are going to have to play out the string with Sark, just as we did with Charlie and Tom. The difference will be in what players show up, and how they perform. Good player make even a bad coach look good. Bad players will still get Vince Lombardi fired!

[texasstrong12 4668]

1 minute ago, hookem48 said:

I didn't buy into it, I knew we were going to be shitty

Yeah, I should have realized we were going to have major issues with no competent edge players. 

I think you can make a good argument that we lose 2 or 3 more games without Ossai last year. 

[hookem48 4603]

5 minutes ago, texasstrong12 said:

Yeah, I should have realized we were going to have major issues with no competent edge players. 

I think you can make a good argument that we lose 2 or 3 more games without Ossai last year. 

yea, we've lost at least 4 games every year for over a decade (last year less games played), there was no way it wasn't happening again this year.

Edited November 8, 2021 by hookem48

[Surly Bevo 24247]

All I know right now is watching Colt McCoy get the ball out lightning fast and accurately makes me want to cry

[WBT 20131]

11 minutes ago, General Specific said:

Lack of heart, fire, passion, drive, pride, will, whatever you want to call it, comes from a player themselves, not the coaches. Outside of three, possibly 5 players, who has displayed that when the chips are down on this team?

How exactly does lack of fire look different than lack of talent?

[Your Mom 4748]

Too many people putting too much emphasis on us being up 28-7 on OU as if it showed would could impose our will and systematically drive the length of the field.  That first half was a bunch of fluke plays.  1st play from scrimmage goes to the house for 75.  Second drive was a TD was the result of a blocked punt and we get it at the OU 2 yard line.  Third drive we punted.  Fourth drive was a TD, the result of us having a short field after an interception.  So at 21-7 we had only run 9 total plays.  Those plays count but you can't just live on big plays like that.  You have to be able to drive the length of the field and we hadn't proved we could do that in that first half even though the score looked nice.  We punted 3 times in that first half that everyone thought was so great.  If you thought that game was in the bag you weren't paying attention.

[hookem48 4603]

4 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

Too many people putting too much emphasis on us being up 28-7 on OU as if it showed would could impose our will and systematically drive the length of the field.  That first half was a bunch of fluke plays.  1st play from scrimmage goes to the house for 75.  Second drive was a TD was the result of a blocked punt and we get it at the OU 2 yard line.  Third drive we punted.  Fourth drive was a TD, the result of us having a short field after an interception.  So at 21-7 we had only run 9 total plays.  Those plays count but you can't just live on big plays like that.  You have to be able to drive the length of the field and we hadn't proved we could do that in that first half even though the score looked nice.  We punted 3 times in that first half that everyone thought was so great.  If you thought that game was in the bag you weren't paying attention.

was screaming this in the first half game thread, first play receiver screen for a 70 yard td, we hadn't gained 70 yards on receiver screens the last 10 years combined, blocked punt gave us a td and completed a bomb, what a bomb? fools gold

[Grandioso 2592]

I have not read any of this thread but holy shit it is the coaching.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rockethorn1978 6059]

4 minutes ago, Grandioso said:

I have not read any of this thread but holy shit it is the coaching.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No man we have 0 star and possibly mentally impaired players. Lay off sark he’s done a bang up job. He’s handicapped by handicapped players. Don’t you know?

[Bullneck 18617]

3 hours ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Have you seen our recruiting classes the last 5 years? We aren’t ranked 75th. 

That isn't exactly what he said.  He's talking about who we actually have playing on campus, now. 

[Bullneck 18617]

39 minutes ago, hookem48 said:

yea, we've lost at least 4 games every year for over a decade (last year less games played), there was no way it wasn't happening again this year.

Narrator: "He's right.  Because it's already happened."

[MonkeyDoughnut 9944]

Good players don't put a coach on a hot seat or get them fired....

[hookem48 4603]

1 minute ago, Bullneck said:

Narrator: "He's right.  Because it's already happened."

a few of us saw it coming, still amazed at how anyone thought we'd be a 2 loss team, just amazed.