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Tell Me About Arkansas


Vic Mackey

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My first real recollection of them was when they were already in the SEC. The UT/Arkansas rivalry was way before my time. My grandpa has stories of when Texas played them. They would bring that hog up to Arlington around J Gilligans and run it through the carwash. The home and home we had with them in 2003/04 were pretty fun. Especially the 2004 game.

1. Was Texas/Arkansas as big of a rivalry as Texas/OU back in the day?

2. Is Fayatteville really a big shithole?

3. Why did they leave the SWC before it disbanded?

 

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I would say it was a bigger rivalry than aggy.  It was always the after Texas-OU and they had decent teams.  Yet Royal always seemed to have the Horns properly prepared, as in there was no hangover over OU.  Aggy, on the other hand, not so much.  Aggy was struggling to have winning seasons, so it was for pride.  It's just not acceptable to lose to those fuckers.

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I have to admit, Fayetteville is a really cool town.  It actually has some of the laid-back bohemian feel of Austin, or at least the Austin of years back.  And, if you are into outdoor activities (camping, hiking, fishing, etc.), the surrounding areas are great and very scenic.  Got nothing bad to say about the town itself and actually like it quite a bit.

That said, f Arkansas football (and basketball - despised seeing their drooling hordes at SWC tourney at Reunion aka Barnhill South).  When I was a kid, we hated those bastards almost as much as OU.

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43 minutes ago, kopp0e said:

I know the high school kids in the state of Oklahoma (maybe just the Tulsa area), are allowed the in-state rates in Arkansas as freshman...

Yup. Funny thing when I visited Tulsa a couple summers ago is the discovery of more Arkansas fans and grads than OU fans. Tulsa is mainly made up of OKie Lite and Arky grads and fans.

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41 minutes ago, kopp0e said:

I know the high school kids in the state of Oklahoma (maybe just the Tulsa area), are allowed the in-state rates in Arkansas as freshman...

That's the deal for everyone out-of-state.  Depending upon your grades, you get anywhere from 70% - 100% off out-of-state tuition.  As a result of the good tuition deal and how hard it is to get in UT nowadays, there are tons of good Texas kids at Arkansas (other SEC schools and OU as well, sadly).  Thought I heard Arkansas might soon do away with the non-resident tuition award, because they've had so much growth and it was such a sweetheart deal, economically.

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2 hours ago, hobbs said:

That's the deal for everyone out-of-state.  Depending upon your grades, you get anywhere from 70% - 100% off out-of-state tuition.  As a result of the good tuition deal and how hard it is to get in UT nowadays, there are tons of good Texas kids at Arkansas (other SEC schools and OU as well, sadly).  Thought I heard Arkansas might soon do away with the non-resident tuition award, because they've had so much growth and it was such a sweetheart deal, economically.

Yep; lots of Plano kids from the last five years go to Arky now and are making it cool and fratty like how UT was when I went and it wasn’t a bunch of model minorities.

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1 hour ago, Butch Had Not said:

The hate for those fuckers should be 10x what it currently is. It's like majority of the current fan base never knew we were in the same conference and it was a pretty heated rivalry. Now its fat fuck Belima jokes. 

That's what happens when television market models are used to add states or regions to a conference footprint... 

Arky won't leave the SEC due to revenues, but it would fit far better in XII (historically & athletically), both Texas & Arkansas could jump start the Thanksgiving Day Rivalry again...

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Nothing was more hard fought in the 60's in the SWC than the game with Woo Pig Sooey.  Texas would have likely won a second title in a row after beating Navy and Roger Staubach, but the try for two failed and Arky prevailed 14-13 in Austin.  DKR and Frank Broyles were golfing buddies in the offseason but enemies the week after the OU game every year.  I miss the rivalry that existed between the Horns and Hogs when in the same conference. 

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22 minutes ago, kopp0e said:

That's what happens when television market models are used to add states or regions to a conference footprint... 

Arky won't leave the SEC due to revenues, but it would fit far better in XII (historically & athletically), both Texas & Arkansas could jump start the Thanksgiving Day Rivalry again...

There were a fair number of posters on the old site who had no desire to play Arkansas again, for many of the reasons that we don't want to play A&M again. I'm not sure if I share that fervor. I wouldn't mind the occasional home-and-home.

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On 6/6/2018 at 7:51 PM, Vic Mackey said:

 1. Was Texas/Arkansas as big of a rivalry as Texas/OU back in the day?

I’m told by people who were young in that age that it was damned close, certainly closer than aggy could ever be in its wettest fucking dreams. 

On 6/6/2018 at 7:51 PM, Vic Mackey said:

2. Is Fayatteville really a big shithole?

No idea. My dad says it was, but that was almost 49 years ago.

On 6/6/2018 at 7:51 PM, Vic Mackey said:

3. Why did they leave the SWC before it disbanded?

Perceived closer cultural identity with the SEC and the fact that they saw the writing on the wall that the SWC was going to die after SMU got the death penalty. They left after the 1991 season but they’d been contemplating that decision since the morning of 02/25/1987.

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4 minutes ago, Machinator said:

There were a fair number of posters on the old site who had no desire to play Arkansas again, for many of the reasons that we don't want to play A&M again. I'm not sure if I share that fervor. I wouldn't mind the occasional home-and-home.

The aggy game is understandable, in that Deloss was upfront with his in state counterparts over a shared 3rd tier network, which aggy refused; only to use the network offer that was awarded by ESPN as a crux of moving to the SEC... When in all likelyness, if the SEC has checked back with A&M after Florida State was ACC bound, the school might have tried to weasel out of the proposed SWC & Big8 merger... In other words, aggy will always look to put the best shine on new manure in a jizz jar...

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1 minute ago, hpslugga said:

Perceived closer cultural identity with the SEC and the fact that they saw the writing on the wall that the SWC was going to die after SMU got the death penalty. They left after the 1991 season but they’d been contemplating that decision since the morning of 02/25/1987.

I agree, but think the sales pitch the SEC might have used in that the SEC was to be the 1st with a conference championship game, that arky miscalculated that recruiting would stay the same as in the SWC; if not outright improve...

It's another reason why I don't like the idea of chasing "who might pay the most in media broadcast rights"...

 If your school is stranded as an outpost with no historical rivals, then the monies only comforts the school, but not the fans in being irrelevant...

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That might be but again, they knew the SWC was going to croak and probably perceived no other place to go, so they made the first move instead of waiting to stand around with their little dick in their hand.

Even if they could have foreseen the Big 12, does that really sound like something that appealed to them? Going on road games to fucking Boulder, Ames, Lincoln and Manhattan? It’s not like an All-Texas conference was a possibility because that’s just an SWC reboot. When Plan A fails, you go to Plan B, not Plan A Recycled.

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When I decided take the scholarship that Ole Miss offered me, and not Texas (books) for baseball, my father was distraught. I informed him that with the percentage OM was offering me would cover out of state tuition, books, room and board, and probably save him a substantial amount of money annually. He still couldn‚Äôt wrap his head around it. Finally, as a last ditch effort, I said, ‚ÄúDad, we play the pigs every year, in conference‚ÄĚ.

He thought about that for a bit, and said, ‚ÄúOkay homesick. Just make sure you fucking beat them when you play them.‚ÄĚ

That’s what Arkansas is to my family.


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Fayetteville and the campus are pretty amazing.  But you go through some pretty horrendous looking rural poverty to get there.  Think Winters Bone, but worse.  It's wooded, hilly, and they have actual seasons there.

 

It's not a great school academically, but I bet it's a hell of a lot of fun.  Like Oklahoma, it's the only game in state, sportswise, so they attract a lot of hillbilly tshirt fans, which accounts for a lot of the acrimony.

 

I suppose the move to the SEC has meant more money, but they were a lot more nationally prominent in the SWC days.  In those days, they were an upper-second or lower-top tier program in football and most other sports, notably basketball, where they were quite formidable under Nolan Richardson (three final fours and an NC in 94).

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13 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

 My Dad's uncle told stories about not being able to buy gas or even a cup of coffee in Arkansas if you had Texas plates. 

Meh.  I think that's a pile of horseshit.  My whole family is from Arkansas.  Everyone on my Mom's side is a UA graduate.  A bunch of the descendants live in Texas and we have spent dozens of thanksgiving an other fall weekends in Arkansas, with Texas plates, without issue.  Maybe, possibly in Fayetteville, or some of the smaller towns up that way on an actual gameday, but I tend to doubt it.

 

While the fans may get torqued up in preparation for a game, you encounter much more generalized hostility in Oklahoma and College Station than Arkansas, generally, in my experience.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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4 hours ago, Butch Had Not said:

The hate for those fuckers should be 10x what it currently is. It's like majority of the current fan base never knew we were in the same conference and it was a pretty heated rivalry. Now its fat fuck Belima jokes. 

It's hard for me to really hate a team that I have seen Texas play just a handful of times since I became conscience of sports. I remember 2003, 2004 and then the 2014 bowl game. I don't really have any contact with them. I do root for them every time they play Aggy, though. Even though they always choke it away.

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3 hours ago, kopp0e said:

That's what happens when television market models are used to add states or regions to a conference footprint... 

Arky won't leave the SEC due to revenues, but it would fit far better in XII (historically & athletically), both Texas & Arkansas could jump start the Thanksgiving Day Rivalry again...

This would be pretty cool. These games against TCU or Tech does nothing at all. That weekend should be about the rivalries. I didn't grow up with the Arkansas rivalry so it would be cool to see it revived and see the discussion on here about them leading up to the game. Would bring back all those old memories people have about them.

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9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Meh.  I think that's a pile of horseshit.  My whole family is from Arkansas.  Everyone on my Mom's side is a UA graduate.  A bunch of the descendants live in Texas and we have spent dozens of thanksgiving an other fall weekends in Arkansas, with Texas plates, without issue.  Maybe, possibly in Fayetteville, or some of the smaller towns up that way on an actual gameday, but I tend to doubt it.

 

While the fans may get torqued up in preparation for a game, you encounter much more generalized hostility in Oklahoma and College Station than Arkansas, generally, in my experience.

He was referring to gamedays, and he went to UT in the 40's, when he returned from the war FWIW. 

Maybe it's "legend" but he was a pretty credible guy

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***Cool story alert***

The wife (no pics) did her undergrad at Arky but her grad work at UT.  Her dad is an old school Arky fan from the SWC.  Loves everything Arky and (like all Arky fans) hates Texas with a white hot passion of a thousand suns but really can't tell you why.

Anyway, there they were at the wife's graduation.  There was a wall of burnt orange in the stands only to have one red dot in the middle.  Yes, he wore Arky colors to the UT graduation.  As the crowd sang the Eyes of Texas, she looked up there to see what he was doing.  There he was, standing with his arms crossed with a red assed look on his face.  

***Cool story over***

That being said, the Northwest corner of that state doesn't suck.  It makes literally every Best Places to Live list that comes out.  The rest of the state is what you think it is.  I laughed at the "Winters Bone" reference.  That's pretty accurate, unless you get into the rest of the state and it's the "Deep South" and all that entails.

It's also correct that there's a bunch of Texas kids there at this point.  Something like 20% of the student body.  It's an OK school but its main selling point is the business school is basically a feeder for WMT and the WMT supplier community.  You can easily slide into a good gig after college there.

As for the fan base, they have a large collection of deranged T-shirt fans that have no affiliation to the school.  (Think West Virginia.)  They're from some butt fuck town in rural Arky and they like the team even though they've never been to the town, let alone went to school there.  A lot of them think they're a legitimate big time program, too, despite never having won anything of substance in my life time.

 

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Arkansas, as a state, is basically just east Texas, with all that entails, positive and negative.  It is  prettier in the north/northwest, which I think is the only region in the state without a declining population.  It was an agricultural economy that got a bump from oil in the southern parts, but nothing much has come along to replace it.  A lot of the upwardly mobile types moved to Texas and other neighboring states after the War to seek opportunity.

 

One thing that's interesting about Arkansas, that I think distinguishes it from Texas and accounts for the more traditionally "southern" flavor it has, is that it was largely settled in the late 18th and early 19th centuries to a much larger degree than Texas.  In other words, it has a much more antebellum existence than did Texas.  The early settlers took the Arkansas and Ouachita rivers west from the Mississippi and established their farms.  However the geography didn't lend itself to the establishment of plantations, so it was mostly just small farms, but a lot of cotton.  In the country cemetery where my grandparents are buried, there are tombstones dating back to the early 1800s, with birthdates in the 1700s in Scotland and France.  And this isn't some fancy, historical cemetery.

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I have zero experience or thoughts on Arky, but I'd like to see them in the Big 12.  It's a good fit geographically for sure, and I'm in favor of reviving any old hatred they have with the SWC schools.

I do think they fit the SEC culturally.  Arkansas seems like more of a traditionally Southern state than Texas, and especially more so than Oklahoma.  

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¬†I dated a girl who lived in Arkansas back when I was 18. She was the first one and her family to go to college although she went somewhere like Arkansas State,¬†Southern Arkansas doesn‚Äôt really matter. ¬†All of her family wore Arkansas colors¬†and always had a Razorback shirt on. She told me, ‚ÄúArky is the only BCS school in the state, so everybody‚Äôs a hog fan.‚ÄĚ

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It's basically half MIssissippi and half West Virginia. Hot Springs is a cool town. Haven't been to the rich part in the NW, and have little experience of Little Rock. 

 

The Winter's Bone comparison is spot on. We went to up near Camp Ozark a month or two ago and Winter's Bone came up for discussion. I've never seen such rural squalor and I've traveled thousands of miles of back roads in every southern state. 

 

I'll put it like this -- we popped back over the border on a back road in rural Bossier Parish and that felt like a return to civilization. 

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3 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I have zero experience or thoughts on Arky, but I'd like to see them in the Big 12.  It's a good fit geographically for sure, and I'm in favor of reviving any old hatred they have with the SWC schools.

I do think they fit the SEC culturally.  Arkansas seems like more of a traditionally Southern state than Texas, and especially more so than Oklahoma.  

The NW part of the state in and around Fayetteville, in my experience, is closer culturally to Oklahoma, Kansas, and Texas.  Tons of people from those states live their or have spent time there for school or work.  The rest of the state is probably more southern culturally.  It's kind of a weird dichotomy since their fanbase is statewide but the university itself is in the unique pocket of NW Arkansas which culturally is different.  That region is closer to Tulsa than it is Little Rock and Tulsa has a lot more going on (concerts, breweries, arts, etc.) than Little Rock, so we get many visitors who say they never really go to Little Rock.  

Either way, I think it is indisputable that Arkansas would have more sporting success in the Big XII than the SEC.  They will never compete with SEC powerhouses for SEC territory recruits, but they could at least be as successful as OSU or TCU if they could recruit Texas and Oklahoma better.  I get the money and "SEC SEC SEC" prestige, but they really should be in the Big XII.  Get Missouri back too and it's a natural fit.   

 

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Back in the mid seventies, I remember driving from Austin to Dallas for the OU game.  Arkansas was playing Baylor that same Saturday, and I-35 had a lot of Piggies headed south.  Southbound side had swarms of highway patrol pulling over Arky fans, didn't see a single one on the northbound side.

Back then teams were limited to 2 TV appearances (maybe a third regional).  I had seats on the second from the top row of the west upper deck (it was the only upper deck at the time).   The Goodyear blimp was there and during the game, it made a low pass right down the field.  I swear the gondola was lower than I was.

I also heard stories from the 60s that during the weekend of the game, that there were gas stations in Arkansas that would sell to Texas cars.

Any way, back then they were a bigger rival than aggy, but not like OU.  I would rather have an annual game with them than aggy.

As to why they left, I think all the cheating and backstabbing in the old SWC during the 80s, along with being the only non-Texas school were part of it.

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Little Rock sucks major ass.  It's basically a small city with big city problems (traffic, crime, poverty, dirty, gangster shit, etc.) with none of the upsides of a big city (culture, restaurants, outdoor activities, etc.)  A lot of cities have are generally nice with pockets of bad.  Little Rock is one giant shit whole with pockets of nice.

One of the worst cities in America.  There's literally no upside.

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On 6/6/2018 at 7:51 PM, Vic Mackey said:

My first real recollection of them was when they were already in the SEC. The UT/Arkansas rivalry was way before my time. My grandpa has stories of when Texas played them. They would bring that hog up to Arlington around J Gilligans and run it through the carwash. The home and home we had with them in 2003/04 were pretty fun. Especially the 2004 game.

1. Was Texas/Arkansas as big of a rivalry as Texas/OU back in the day?

2. Is Fayatteville really a big shithole?

3. Why did they leave the SWC before it disbanded?ÔĽŅÔĽŅ

 

1.  Yes.  Moreso even.  See the late 60's early 70's

2.  No.  It's nice.  And the campus is really nice, as is there stadium.  Lot of Texas kids headed that way when they allowed them to qualify for in-state tuition.

3.  They were really the only out of state member.  As I vaguely remember, they always felt there was a better 'fit' with those schools.  Problem was, when they left, their Texas recruiting suffered.  They the ewe-fukers helped open that gate back wide open.  

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1 hour ago, 'stache said:

The NW part of the state in and around Fayetteville, in my experience, is closer culturally to Oklahoma, Kansas, and Texas.  Tons of people from those states live their or have spent time there for school or work.  The rest of the state is probably more southern culturally.  It's kind of a weird dichotomy since their fanbase is statewide but the university itself is in the unique pocket of NW Arkansas which culturally is different.  That region is closer to Tulsa than it is Little Rock and Tulsa has a lot more going on (concerts, breweries, arts, etc.) than Little Rock, so we get many visitors who say they never really go to Little Rock.  

Either way, I think it is indisputable that Arkansas would have more sporting success in the Big XII than the SEC.  They will never compete with SEC powerhouses for SEC territory recruits, but they could at least be as successful as OSU or TCU if they could recruit Texas and Oklahoma better.  I get the money and "SEC SEC SEC" prestige, but they really should be in the Big XII.  Get Missouri back too and it's a natural fit.   

 

I've been meaning to visit that area (Buffalo River, Boston Mountains, etc).  I've heard it's a lot more the way you describe it than the tar paper shacks you see in the Delta.

I'd enjoy Missouri coming back.  If the Big 12 could lure any schools away from a power conference, I think it would be those two.  The SEC has no Grant of Rights, so they wouldn't really be out financially the way Nebraska or Colorado would be.

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19 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I've been meaning to visit that area (Buffalo River, Boston Mountains, etc).  I've heard it's a lot more the way you describe it than the tar paper shacks you see in the Delta.

I'd enjoy Missouri coming back.  If the Big 12 could lure any schools away from a power conference, I think it would be those two.  The SEC has no Grant of Rights, so they wouldn't really be out financially the way Nebraska or Colorado would be.

I'm holding out hope that the next wave of TV contracts will bring some sanity to the room and stop rewarding "TV markets" and other nonsense and will make "super conferences" less desirable.  That's the only way we can possibly pull anyone of note into the Big XII.  Cultural fit and rivalries should be the determining factor.  I'd like to get Arkansas, and bring back Missouri and Nebraska, neither of which seem to be fitting in well with their new conferences (Mizzou has had some success, but does anybody really notice?).  Drop Baylor, or let WVU find an east coast home so we're at 12 again.  That's my dumb dream. 

Can you imagine the rivalries that would be brought back into the fold?

KU-Mizzou would be reunited.

UT-Arky gets back into the fold

Arky-Mizzou can maybe build a rivalry (hopefully by putting them in the same division)

OSU-Arky would be a natural rivalry, especially in basketball

OU-Nebraska get to play again (even two years on two years off it was still a big time game)

Edited by 'stache
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3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I'm holding out hope that the next wave of TV contracts will bring some sanity to the room and stop rewarding "TV markets" and other nonsense and will make "super conferences" less desirable.¬† That's the only way we can possibly pull anyone of note into the Big XII.¬† Cultural fit and rivalries should be the determining factor.¬† I'd like to get Arkansas, and bring back Missouri and Nebraska, neither of which seem to be fittingÔĽŅ in well with their new conferences (Mizzou has had some success, but does anybody really notice?).¬† Drop Baylor, or let WVU find an east coast home so we're at 12 again.¬† That's my dumb dream.¬†

Can you imagine the rivalries that would be brought back into the fold?

KU-Mizzou would be reunited.

UT-Arky gets back into the fold

Arky-Mizzou can maybe build a rivalry (hopefully by putting them in the same division)

OSU-Arky would be a natural rivalry, especially in basketball

OU-Nebraska get to play again (even two years on two years off it was still a big time game)

Sign me up.  I'd love to watch Matt Campbell mop the turf with Mizzou.  Bring the ugliest trophy in sports back to Ames, baby.

Telephone%20Trophy.jpg

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Northwest Arkansas and Little Rock are both a lot nicer than they were 20 years ago.  The poverty in that state is mostly eastern Arkansas and southern Arkansas (outside the big population zones.)  

Arkansas would be a great fit in the Big 12.  And since we have all of our media rights on the market in a few years, and the SEC only has their Tier 1 rights up, they might actually end up making more money in the Big 12 than in the SEC - if they were here, that is.

My preference would probably be a straight up WVU for Arkansas trade with the SEC.  The SEC gets to plant a flag in Pittsburgh and they get to move Mizzou to the West division.  The Big 12 gets a 10th member that actually makes sense.  

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6 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I have zero experience or thoughts on Arky, but I'd like to see them in the Big 12.  It's a good fit geographically for sure, and I'm in favor of reviving any old hatred they have with the SWC schools.

I do think they fit the SEC culturally.  Arkansas seems like more of a traditionally Southern state than Texas, and especially more so than Oklahoma.  

It gets kind of blurry around the Fort Smith OK-AR area, if your on the highway, one barometer I use to figure where I am, is if there are Hardee's or Carl's Jr nearby...

 

 

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