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Incredulity
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1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

I’m referencing the realm of sanity 

yeah, so i'm just looking for an example. let's see an example of what you consider a realm of sanity for online political discourse. come on, shouldn't be that hard.

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He's not a right wing extremist, if you define "right wing extremist" to mean "holds views that are considered extreme among the right." His right-wing views are perfectly in line with the vast majority of conservatives in America today. Of course, if you're saying "right wing extremist" to mean someone who holds views that are considered extreme among the broad spectrum of American society, and that his particularly extremity leans right rather than left, sure.  

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1 minute ago, hayden_horn said:

yeah, so i'm just looking for an example. let's see an example of what you consider a realm of sanity for online political discourse. come on, shouldn't be that hard.

I consider here(cloak room) sane, but pretty darn left leaning

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7 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

I consider here(cloak room) sane, but pretty darn left leaning

Yeah, if "left-leaning" means feeling every individual has the right to living the life they choose without being discriminated against on the basis of their gender, race, sexuality, income, etc.

You know, those founding principles all patriots espouse.

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26 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

 

it's only missing "ilk" for the right wing trifecta.

there's something behind the disingenuous language that extremist right wing posters use, and i mean the exact words. i'm not sure what that something is, but it's there. it's like there's a primer out there. or maybe it's fox news sourced language? you never hear clap-trap, screed, or ilk unless some extremist is going off about something.

I'd REALLY be interested in getting access to the SurlyElasticIndex as a data source for some linguistic analysis and advanced stats, because I'd be very interested to test that theory. Hell even the kibana dashboard would have some insights

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14 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

He's not a right wing extremist, if you define "right wing extremist" to mean "holds views that are considered extreme among the right." His right-wing views are perfectly in line with the vast majority of conservatives in America today. Of course, if you're saying "right wing extremist" to mean someone who holds views that are considered extreme among the broad spectrum of American society, and that his particularly extremity leans right rather than left, sure.  

Yeah. He's not a right wing extremist, he's just a dummy. The kind of dummy that cries about a burnt police car or w/e the fuck and thinks the Capital riot was all in good fun.

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26 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

well, first we would have to agree on what right wing extremist means. i think it means you, because you post some crazy ass right wing extremist shit here. 

for instance, say, this fucking thread. you probably do not want people combing through your posts for examples of right wing extremist views. that might not end like you think it would.

but, in case you missed it and of course you did, i was talking specifically about coded language that right wing extremists (like yourself, i want to be clear here, i absolutely think you are a right wing extremist) use in online forums as strange self-identifiers. i'm sure left wing extemists do the same thing, but i don't see it as clearly.

but then, i'm compelled to ask you a question: do you consider yourself extremely right wing?

Incredulity is not a right wing extremist. Get a grip.

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35 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

God lord.  Only here could my posts be labeled, “right wing extremist”.  Unreal.

 

34 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

only here?

as compared to where, exactly?

a-ha. i understand the distinction. thanks.

Well, if your point of reference is the 2023 American "right wing" you're probably correct.  When the mainstream figures of the "right" are Elise Stefanik, Gym Jordan, MTG, Dotard, and Tucker, then everything to the left of that is a "left wing circle jerk."

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15 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Yeah, if "left-leaning" means feeling every individual has the right to living the life they choose without being discriminated against on the basis of their gender, race, sexuality, income, etc.

You know, those founding principles all patriots espouse.

Ok, see ya over at the “Bill Maher is a right winger” thread.  Smdh.

 

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44 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

God lord.  Only here could my posts be labeled, “right wing extremist”.  Unreal.

Lol. You call everyone to the left of hitler a leftist so fuck you if you don’t like being labeled. Fuck off to Texans. This board is almost all former republicans or self described conservatives. Then trump came around and dumbshits like you bought in 100% and pushed the rest of us toward the middle/left. Any sane person would see that, yet here we are

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45 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

 

it's only missing "ilk" for the right wing trifecta.

there's something behind the disingenuous language that extremist right wing posters use, and i mean the exact words. i'm not sure what that something is, but it's there. it's like there's a primer out there. or maybe it's fox news sourced language? you never hear clap-trap, screed, or ilk unless some extremist is going off about something.

an actual study would be interesting from someone who is smart at that kind of thing, but it's connected to the bucket of lies that are used to turn fairly normal if dull folks into people who integrate just the absolute worst things into their core identity.  "Your problems are because of other kinds of people, understanding this means that you are good and shouldn't change", "Things that are evil are actually good, but you need to be a tough, smart, grown up to understand this." "Things that are complicated aren't true because things are actually simple - understanding this means you are smart". Don't listen to those people with their unhinged emotional screeds and clap-trap theories - you are a tough responsible grown up who is smart and doesn't need to change, not like them.

Hearing the condescending language used to hammer those lies in repeated back not from a head on Fox News is interesting - it's like when a toddler repeats whatever his mom told him about being a big boy to some other misbehaving child.

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34 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Hadn't seen this, but apparently they released a picture of the gun the dude they killed supposedly had:

 

I'm sure one of the officers on scene has coincidentally reported his backup firearm as having been stolen the night before.

There is so much weirdness in that description. 

"In [his] possession"... "A handgun and shell casings were located at the scene."  That is not terribly specific.  Was it in his hand? Was it in his tent?  Was it within five feet of where he was shot? I see a picture of a dirty handgun laying on the ground with a few cigarettes and ashes.  Obviously it's not in a tent. Did the cops move it to take a picture?  Casings would imply multiple shots from this gun.  How many shots are they claiming Teran fired? 

And the chain of events is pretty murky.  Cop calls out to Teran who was in his tent. Teran doesn't comply and then shoots the cop.  The would imply the cop was in the tent, or at least at the entrance.  Then several more cops shoot Teran.  Were they just shooting blindly into a tent? Are they saying Teran came out blasting, making some bizarre you'll-never-take-me-alive coppers moment?  

"Additionally, mortar style fireworks, multiple edged weapons, pellet rifles, gas masks, and a blow torch were recovered."  So this was the only firearm that was found? Teran, who had been quoted days earlier about avoiding violence, was actually an outlier for being armed? Everyone else avoided having a firearm.  

"Other preliminary information released in this case is consistent with the investigation so far." What about the unreleased information?  

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

You call everyone to the left of hitler a leftist so fuck you if you don’t like being labeled

This is fair

 

2 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Then trump came around and dumbshits like you bought in 100%

Dead wrong 

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1 hour ago, hayden_horn said:

 

it's only missing "ilk" for the right wing trifecta.

there's something behind the disingenuous language that extremist right wing posters use, and i mean the exact words. i'm not sure what that something is, but it's there. it's like there's a primer out there. or maybe it's fox news sourced language? you never hear clap-trap, screed, or ilk unless some extremist is going off about something.

Good day, sir. I said GOOD DAY!

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1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

"Multiple edged weapons" = dude was camping out in a tent in the woods. 

I liked the gas mask mention.  OMG, protesters were actually taking measures to avoid being hurt when the cops use tear gas and fire pepper balls.  That's terrorism. 

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44 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

I consider here(cloak room) sane, but pretty darn left leaning

you said it was a leftist circle jerk.

unjokingly and seriously.

unless you weren't serious with that? i can quote you if you like.

 

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1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

God lord.  Only here could my posts be labeled, “right wing extremist”.  Unreal.

 

57 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Anywhere that isn’t a leftist circle jerk 

 

55 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

this place is not a leftist circle jerk.

might be you could, i dunno, benefit from some introspection and ask yourself why you think this place is a leftist circle jerk.

and again, as compared to what?

you want a leftist circle jerk, i can direct you towards:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/

as compared to that place, surly is texags.

 

51 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

I’m referencing the realm of sanity 

so...i dunno. 

which is it?

you never really gave us a baseline for sanity. you also never answered whether you consider yourself extremely right wing?

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1 hour ago, Incredulity said:

God lord.  Only here could my posts be labeled, “right wing extremist”.  Unreal.

Think about that. On a thread shared by democratic voters and many former republicans, almost a definition of traditionally centrist, you make occasional forays to show up the stupid leftists you believe in.

59 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

only here?

as compared to where, exactly?

 

56 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Anywhere that isn’t a leftist circle jerk 

55 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Kindly quote any post I have made that promotes, “right wing extremist” views.

Perhaps your insistence that this is a leftist circle jerk qualifies?

23 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

Incredulity is not a right wing extremist. Get a grip.

Only because the term right wing extremist has become redundant. The right wing is the extreme.

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4 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Boy, what could go wrong with a statistical/computer/AI study looking for words and phrases that have been assigned association with undesirables?

Do you all even listen to yourselves? Christ.

... It's not? It'd be applying clustering techniques to identify the posts and users that are highly similar, and then looking at the features/language that had the highest importance and prevalence. 

Your presumption of there being some known outcome or deterministic end state says quite a lot about your own intellectual biases. I was pretty clear in my post of saying that it was a theory and a mechanism to empirically test against the raw data of the public posts on this very board. 

Not about assigning right and wrong, but rather mapping the nodes that are more highly connected in the conversation, and the words most strongly connecting them together. The model just is a tool for quantitative analysis, deciding if it's good or bad is up to the person reading the results. 

Stop carrying such a victim mindset. It sets you up to be a perpetually small person. 

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3 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Only because the term right wing extremist has become redundant. The right wing is the extreme

 

23 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

If the center looks right, or left, wing from where you’re standing, you aren’t that close to the center. 

 

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Just now, Captainant said:

Not about assigning right and wrong, but rather mapping the nodes that are more highly connected in the conversation, and the words most strongly connecting them together. The model just is a tool for quantitative analysis, deciding if it's good or bad is up to the person reading the results

So a kind of, “if you’ve done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about” situation.

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2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Hell, John Mellencamp noticed it 40 years ago:

There's a black man with a black cat
Livin' in a black neighborhood
He's got an interstate runnin' through his front yard
You know he thinks he's got it so good

Hell, the Environmental Equity Work Group of the EPA was established by that noted libtard George HW Bush in 1990.  And then established the Office of Environmental Justice in 1992.  Obviously this is all a far left fabrication from 30 years into the future.

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Just now, Incredulity said:

So a kind of, “if you’ve done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about” situation.

...no? What are you talking about? Did math beat you up and steal your lunch money or something? Are you under the impression that your language and activity would associate you with known LGBT hate peddlers, russian disinformation posters, antivaxxers, and fascists?

Because I don't need a statistical model to tell me that lol. 

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2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

...no? What are you talking about? Did math beat you up and steal your lunch money or something? Are you under the impression that your language and activity would associate you with known LGBT hate peddlers, russian disinformation posters, antivaxxers, and fascists?

Because I don't need a statistical model to tell me that lol. 

sure, sure.  But you know that wasn’t what was being proposed.

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11 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

sure, sure.  But you know that wasn’t what was being proposed.

clear me up here because you seems to be talking about something I haven't read in this thread: what was being proposed? Please back your answer up with a specific example(s)

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i used the word study, and it could be that which has triggered incredullity into believing that some kind of minority report type situation was being proposed. But I really just meant, it would be interesting to read what someone who studies language and its use would have to say about the journey of words like claptrap, screed, unhinged, etc. I'm sure someone has already written an interesting thing about the journey of "woke".

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5 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

i used the word study, and it could be that which has triggered incredullity into believing that some kind of minority report type situation was being proposed. But I really just meant, it would be interesting to read what someone who studies language and its use would have to say about the journey of words like claptrap, screed, unhinged, etc. I'm sure someone has already written an interesting thing about the journey of "woke".

You libtards and your thirst for knowledge, eesh.

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9 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

i used the word study, and it could be that which has triggered incredullity into believing that some kind of minority report type situation was being proposed. But I really just meant, it would be interesting to read what someone who studies language and its use would have to say about the journey of words like claptrap, screed, unhinged, etc. I'm sure someone has already written an interesting thing about the journey of "woke".

You mention it would be interesting to you-- why is that? Do you have a half-baked hypothesis that using the word "screed" or "ilk" is used by Nazi's more than regular folk? Serious question because until today I didn't realize "ilk" was a coded word that bad people used.

I wouldn't be opposed to such a word study I just haven't thought it would be interesting, but open to hear why it would be useful and interesting and/or entertaining to you.

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4 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

You mention it would be interesting to you-- why is that? Do you have a half-baked hypothesis that using the word "screed" or "ilk" is used by Nazi's more than regular folk? Serious question because until today I didn't realize "ilk" was a coded word that bad people used.

I wouldn't be opposed to such a word study I just haven't thought it would be interesting, but open to hear why it would be useful and interesting and/or entertaining to you.

well, since it was me who hypothesized this, i'll deign to answer in @Celery Man's stead.

yeah, i do have a half-baked hypothesis that extremists are more prone to words like "screed" or "ilk," absolutely. it's a hypothesis for which i don't have any hard evidence. then along came a poster saying, "hey, yeah, that would be an interesting hypothesis to test, and here's how it could be done," to which you extremists responded "wait, what are you proposing?!?" 

that it would be interesting to see if extremist posters tend to use certain extremist (my new descriptor) language?

yeah, it would be. it would be interesting to see all sorts of vocabulary and linguistic trends as they are tied to the consumption of news/media/website sources as well as commonalities between posters with common political views.

wouldn't that be interesting?

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3 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

well, since it was me who hypothesized this, i'll deign to answer in @Celery Man's stead.

yeah, i do have a half-baked hypothesis that extremists are more prone to words like "screed" or "ilk," absolutely. it's a hypothesis for which i don't have any hard evidence. then along came a poster saying, "hey, yeah, that would be an interesting hypothesis to test, and here's how it could be done," to which you extremists responded "wait, what are you proposing?!?" 

that it would be interesting to see if extremist posters tend to use certain extremist (my new descriptor) language?

yeah, it would be. it would be interesting to see all sorts of vocabulary and linguistic trends as they are tied to the consumption of news/media/website sources as well as commonalities between posters with common political views.

wouldn't that be interesting?

I'd read it sure. I guess where I was missing the boat was in being aware or picking up on this extremist-coded-shared-words phenomenon, as if using the word ilk or screed or any other word that isn't rooted in racism or ugliness or a meme of daily storm trooper pepe frogs was the linguistic analog of throwing up the ok sign with your fingers. 

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Just now, Sawbonz said:

“Ilk” is definitely a both sides word. And to be avoided if one wants anything that follows to be taken seriously 

for sure. and it's used by extremists. i think i even used to use it when i would reference certain left wing views in the past. but it is used to make an "others" to castigate. it's extremist behavior, but not by itself, i reckon.

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3 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

for sure. and it's used by extremists. i think i even used to use it when i would reference certain left wing views in the past. but it is used to make an "others" to castigate. it's extremist behavior, but not by itself, i reckon.

It definitely does not help to persuade someone on the fence to come around to your point of you, and it is offputting to those who hold the opposite position. Plus, at this point it has become a cliche 

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13 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

for sure. and it's used by extremists. i think i even used to use it when i would reference certain left wing views in the past. but it is used to make an "others" to castigate. it's extremist behavior, but not by itself, i reckon.

FWIW the only person that posts on Surly I would straight up assert is a right wing extremist is Iconoclast, whatever username he's using now, I forget. Maybe Poe as well.

Having right wing brain rot from watching too much Ben Shapiro or whoever the fuck and just nodding along without a single critical thought and/or jacking off to Elon Musk tweets is a different thing. You're never really going to reach either person, but they're not the same animal.

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