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Posted
5 hours ago, Park Gothic said:

I've gone back and watched the game twice now, because I hate myself. I am in complete agreement with you. Sark started off with a somewhat vanilla game plan, although not nearly as vanilla as people have been saying. The more I watch, the more I see open pass catchers that Arch didn't even try to hit. And that's on top of the times he made the right reads but fucked up the throw. 

Sark didn't kill it with this game but there was a lot of meat that Arch left on the bone. This is especially true in the red zone. Sark actually called several TD plays while we were in the redzone. And this is something that I was initially furious about and am having to retract my statements about Sark's playcalling. You know that frustratingly stupid "up the gut on 4th and short" call where there was no way we were going to get it? Sark schemed up two TD passes and a TD run in the series of plays before it. The guys just didn't execute. At that point I become more sympathetic to him just calling a simple play where he hopes we get lucky. Because what the fuck else can he do? Sark's RZ playcalling was much better than I remembered and it is baffling to see how poorly Arch executed it. 

I can't assume we win even if Arch makes all the right calls and throws because OSU would have changed it strategy as well. But man, we would have had a much better chance. 

Dark was saving a lot of his offense for San Jose State. No reason to top his hand in the first game. 

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Posted
8 hours ago, Levi said:

Sark said post game the first read was to Wingo. 

I am sure it was but he had a better opportunity. The problem here is you guys are judging in hindsight. The secondary can see where Arch is looking and therefore reacted to the outside throw the way they did. Now let him have turned his eyes toward Wingo and watch how fast that safety closes down on that throw. 

Posted
23 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I am sure it was but he had a better opportunity. The problem here is you guys are judging in hindsight. The secondary can see where Arch is looking and therefore reacted to the outside throw the way they did. Now let him have turned his eyes toward Wingo and watch how fast that safety closes down on that throw. 

I’m not judging in hindsight. I specifically said the picture going around would have gotten Wingo hurt if Arch decides to throw it then. He should have thrown the ball earlier when the rub/pick was set. The corner was trailing Wingo by his third step. Wingo had less reaction time with the safety screaming down on him on the seam route earlier in the game. We can agree to disagree on this one. 

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Posted
2 hours ago, Levi said:

In order for Texas to be successful they had to be lighter in the box to help contain one of if not the best WR groups in college. And yet, the Ohio st Oline was barely able to get a consistent push against our front, only rushing for 77 yards at 2.3YPC. Ohio st has a pretty good Dline even if it’s not as deep as Texas. Their edges and LB core also played good and had some unknowns that are now on peoples radar. And we all know how good Downs is in the box and sniffing out runs. So I just have a hard time believing our Oline played bad while getting 4.5YPC with 3 to 4 new starters and blocking for a running back coming off a knee implosion. Paul seems to always be hypercritical of the lines, whether it’s not being tough enough or going on one of his S&C tirades that he loves to do. The Oline could have been better in certain situations but there was stuff outside of their control that had a bigger impact on the game. 

This is the thing I think is missed. The oline didn't dominate a light a box. True. But it held up a hell of damn bit better than OSU's "best of all time" oline versus our defense. I think, adjusting for the level of competition, our young oline performed pretty well. Not perfect, but good enough. They'll be better against lesser defenses.   

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Posted

ThatGuy is wrong, the throw should have been to Wingo here for a 1st down on 4th and 3 He is wide open and the ball is still at the chest of arch coming off the pick

This is the safety just before Wingo comes open and you see his feet are parallel to the end zone so he's not actively heading toward wingo yet

image.thumb.png.fe928fadc70165c939b62b4a11d15398.png

This is the moment wingo is officially open(well actually open slightly before this.

image.thumb.png.d78e26187f73de05f388a2d1e1d356df.png

This is the moment he starts to cock is arm for throw:

image.thumb.png.72982f4245af93de5c0be0aae760fb6b.png

 

At minimum this is a 1st down(if arch makes the throw and potentially Wingo scores if he's able to break a tackle or make safety miss.

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Posted
46 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

ThatGuy is wrong, the throw should have been to Wingo here for a 1st down on 4th and 3 He is wide open and the ball is still at the chest of arch coming off the pick

This is the safety just before Wingo comes open and you see his feet are parallel to the end zone so he's not actively heading toward wingo yet

image.thumb.png.fe928fadc70165c939b62b4a11d15398.png

This is the moment wingo is officially open(well actually open slightly before this.

image.thumb.png.d78e26187f73de05f388a2d1e1d356df.png

This is the moment he starts to cock is arm for throw:

image.thumb.png.72982f4245af93de5c0be0aae760fb6b.png

 

At minimum this is a 1st down(if arch makes the throw and potentially Wingo scores if he's able to break a tackle or make safety miss.

Dak and Cedee just completed a mirror of this. Nobody lost their heads. 

Posted (edited)
On 9/1/2025 at 4:42 PM, The Dog said:

image.thumb.png.b1517c17a5e50d15ae709bbbeacc4891.png

If somebody can get Arch to draw this giant dog/Triceratops with head knives and a rock helmet, I'll write a paper describing it as a new species in the Annals of Improbable Research, and submit it for consideration for the Ig Noble Prize. 

Lots of papers have been written describing different species of Triceratops based only on differences in their horn shape and neck frills. I'd have to check Arch's drawing against the published literature, but I'm fairly certain head knives and a rock helmet are unique morphological characteristics, never before described in ceratopsian dinosaurs. Or dogs. 

Arch is welcome to be co-author if he wants, but either way, I'd credit him as both the paleo artist and discoverer of the new species.  

Unless Arch has a strong preference for the species name, I'd start a poll and let surlyhorns posters name it. 

 

 

Edited by Pods
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Posted
54 minutes ago, Derka said:

i still can’t reconcile these two throws being from the same game:

 

 

I just don't want to see another stupid side arm the rest of the season... just throw with proper mechanics please

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Posted

his footwork ok that play gross as well, but that wasn’t just your run of the mill sidearm sling that’s been accepted practice since mahomes joined the nfl, that was deadass some uncle rico, noodle arm, i-don’t-know-how-to-throw-a-football garbage. total basura. comically bad, and totally puzzling. that throw alone has me sort of holding my breath, hoping to see the arch we saw in the 4q for the full four quarters on saturday.

Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Derka said:

his footwork ok that play gross as well, but that wasn’t just your run of the mill sidearm sling that’s been accepted practice since mahomes joined the nfl, that was deadass some uncle rico, noodle arm, i-don’t-know-how-to-throw-a-football garbage. total basura. comically bad, and totally puzzling. that throw alone has me sort of holding my breath, hoping to see the arch we saw in the 4q for the full four quarters on saturday.

Truly hope it was the yips because there's no way to hide that shit in the past 2 years.  If he was that bad, it would have been obvious during practices

Edited by westexhorn
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Posted
12 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Riiiigggghhhhhtttt......A clean throw to the outside vs a throw over the middle in traffic? This isn't fucking UTEP. That's Ohio State. Test that if you want to. Good chance Wingo comes away unconscious.

You’re an idiot

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Derka said:

i still can’t reconcile these two throws being from the same game:

 

 

His PFF breakdown gave him 87.3 passer rating in clean pocket. Gave him a 35.3 grade under pressure. He was sped up and anytime there was a hint of pressure the mechanics completely broke down (not always great with a clean pocket either, but not as bad). The first pass of the game we saw what the mechanics looked like with pressure. Oddly seemed more sped up in the short game. If you are taking positive from Arch's game, it is he is an elite deep ball passer. Even in a disaster like the OSU game, he was still very good on deep balls. Hard to explain but his comfort zone is throwing it deep.

 

Edited by Codaxx
Posted
24 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

So what happens if Arch doesn’t completely turn it around tomorrow?

We win 41-7 instead of 56-7?

If you are insinuating he would get pullled or something, lol.

Posted
1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

But what if we only win 35-3?

Depends on how it looks.

Not all 35-3 wins look the same. The Rice game a few years back was 37-3 after 3 quarters, and we had like 400 yards of offense, but then Rice had a 10-minute drive in the 4th quarter, scored a garbage TD, and we only won 37-10. Then the freakout commenced for 6 days til we beat Bama. 

Posted
29 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

We win 41-7 instead of 56-7?

If you are insinuating he would get pullled or something, lol.

Playing well tomorrow won't tell us a whole lot about Arch, but playing bad will.

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Posted
9 hours ago, Derka said:

his footwork ok that play gross as well, but that wasn’t just your run of the mill sidearm sling that’s been accepted practice since mahomes joined the nfl, that was deadass some uncle rico, noodle arm, i-don’t-know-how-to-throw-a-football garbage. total basura. comically bad, and totally puzzling. that throw alone has me sort of holding my breath, hoping to see the arch we saw in the 4q for the full four quarters on saturday.

If you aren’t Mahomes, you shouldn’t be permitted to change your arm angles. 

Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

ThatGuy is wrong, the throw should have been to Wingo here for a 1st down on 4th and 3 He is wide open and the ball is still at the chest of arch coming off the pick

This is the safety just before Wingo comes open and you see his feet are parallel to the end zone so he's not actively heading toward wingo yet

image.thumb.png.fe928fadc70165c939b62b4a11d15398.png

This is the moment wingo is officially open(well actually open slightly before this.

image.thumb.png.d78e26187f73de05f388a2d1e1d356df.png

This is the moment he starts to cock is arm for throw:

image.thumb.png.72982f4245af93de5c0be0aae760fb6b.png

 

At minimum this is a 1st down(if arch makes the throw and potentially Wingo scores if he's able to break a tackle or make safety miss.

Look at the bottom picture. Both guys have a step on their defender. This is not a bad read. Off the top of my head the check down, when the over was coming open and the deep ball to Wingo when Arch misread the CB bailing were bad reads. You can have a preferred option here, but you are not saying this is terrible decision. There is difference between a BAD read and a QB taking what he is comfortable with. Texas generally avoided the middle of field all game, I am sure that had a lot do with the scouting report on OSU safeties. 

Edited by Codaxx
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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

Look at the bottom picture. Both guys have a step on their defender. This is not a bad read. Off the top of my head the check down, when the over was coming open and the deep ball to Wingo when Arch misread the CB bailing were bad reads. You can have a preferred option here, but you are not saying this is terrible decision. There is difference between a BAD read and a QB taking what he is comfortable with. Texas generally avoided the middle of field all game, I am sure that had a lot do with the scouting report on OSU safeties. 

On 4th and 3 it's 100% the bad read when the 1st read will net a 1st down. It's a low percentage throw to Livingstone. Once Wingo came open there was only 1 player within 10-15 yards of him that could have made a play and it was the safety in the middle of the field and that play would stop a touchdown, not a 1st down and give us more downs in the red zone.

Edited by BurntOrange&White
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

On 4th and 3 it's 100% the bad read when the 1st read will net a 1st down. It's a low percentage throw to Livingstone.

You did not comment on the fact that Livingstone had a step and was 1 on 1 and appeared to be running to open grass. If that was a TD, you would not have said a word. That is the main component of this. The examples I mentioned. 1 was a caught, but the process was terrible. The other was an incompletion and the process was terrible. Those were WTF moments, this not in the same ballpark as those

Edited by Codaxx
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

Your did not comment on the fact that Livingstone had a step and was 1 on 1 and appeared to be running to open grass. If that was a TD, you would not have said a word. That is the main component of this. The examples I mentioned. 1 was a caught, but the process was terrible. The other was an incompletion and the process was terrible. Those were WTF moments, this not in the same ballpark as those

BECAUSE IT'S IRREVERENT! 4th and 3 the fucking goal is to move the chains and get a 1st down. Instead Arch didn't look at Wingo coming open because he focused on Livingstone for a TD. I guaran-fucking-tee you that Sark told Arch he should have went to Wingo here in film review for easy first down at minimum and potential touchdown if Wingo breaks a tackle or carries defender into endzone after catch.

The only way your thought process makes sense is if this was 2nd or 3rd and 3 in that situation.

 

Regardless Arch threw to the wrong fucking read and caused a turnover on downs

Edited by BurntOrange&White
Posted
7 hours ago, elguapo said:

You’re an idiot

No, you sir, are the idiot. Go watch the play in motion again. The safety starts out moving towards Wingo but when he realizes Manning isn't looking there he stops. I am not sure if you are athletic at all or played ball with any high level athletes, but they cover ground really fast. That safety probably runs a 4.4 40. There are 6-7 yards between him and Wingo. That ball needs to travel 15 yards at that angle. He will get there when Wingo catches that ball. 

You see the reason why Ohio State was number one in the country defensively last year isn't because they called magic plays on defense, it's because they had bigger, faster players. They were the stingiest team in the country in the red zone for a reason. Because they can close on plays like these and dislodge the football. Later we are going to run this same play vs MSU or UTEP and Parker Livingstone is going to be open by a mile on the break, and Wingo will walk into the EZ on that rub. But on this day Livingstone was getting his pockets checked the whole way through his route and Wingo would've gotten hit as soon as he caught the football. The only way that doesn't happen is if Manning throws it as soon as the rub happens, but he smartly waits to see if it's man or zone since Ohio State fooled him earlier in the game. 

 

Posted
4 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

BECAUSE IT'S IRREVERENT! 4th and 3 the fucking goal is to move the chains and get a 1st down. Instead Arch didn't look at Wingo coming open because he focused on Livingstone for a TD. I guaran-fucking-tee you that Sark told Arch he should have went to Wingo here in film review for easy first down at minimum and potential touchdown if Wingo breaks a tackle or carries defender into endzone after catch.

The only way your thought process makes sense is if this was 2nd or 3rd and 3 in that situation.

 

Regardless Arch threw to the wrong fucking read and caused a turnover on downs

It's always the wrong read in hindsight when it doesn't work out. WR does what HE is supposed to and it's a TD. Ball was thrown well. 

Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

It's always the wrong read in hindsight when it doesn't work out. WR does what HE is supposed to and it's a TD. Ball was thrown well. 

No it’s the wrong read because it’s a Low percentage pass on 4th down, it’s the secondary read in this specific play btw. The read on this concept is always inside out. 

Edited by BurntOrange&White
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Posted
5 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Tomorrow can't get here soon enough. 

 

 

 

 

I don't think anything in the next three games is going to change the perception of Manning unless he continues to be inconsistent over the next three games and looks bad.  

The narrative can only begin to change after the Florida and OU games.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, deech said:

I don't think anything in the next three games is going to change the perception of Manning unless he continues to be inconsistent over the next three games and looks bad.  

The narrative can only begin to change after the Florida and OU games.

I get your point, but we have entered the period where Arch’s shittiness vs. OSU is being overstated. It’s turned to hysterics at this point, people need to get a grip. 

Edited by Hank Kingsley
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Posted
5 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Tomorrow can't get here soon enough. 

 

 

 

 

Oh yeah, it's going to get soooooooooooooooooooooo much better

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Posted
1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I get your point, but we have entered the period where Arch’s shittiness vs. OSU is being overstated. It’s turned to hysterics at this point, people need to get a grip. 

If he goes out and does like 300 ypg 10-11 touchdowns and a couple running the media will be right back on the hype train. Just the nature of media now days. 

Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

If he goes out and does like 300 ypg 10-11 touchdowns and a couple running the media will be right back on the hype train. Just the nature of media now days. 

11 touchdowns in one game would be nice

Edited by Biff Tannen
Posted
52 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

It's always the wrong read in hindsight when it doesn't work out. WR does what HE is supposed to and it's a TD. Ball was thrown well. 

If Livingstone's right arm was not knocked down and then pinned during the attempted catch, I believe he would have reeled it in. I've posted on this a couple of times. It happens so quickly in real time, that I don't really fault the official for not catching it, but on the replay from the endzone view, it's clear as day. 

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Posted
14 minutes ago, sith_horn said:

If Livingstone's right arm was not knocked down and then pinned during the attempted catch, I believe he would have reeled it in. I've posted on this a couple of times. It happens so quickly in real time, that I don't really fault the official for not catching it, but on the replay from the endzone view, it's clear as day. 

Yeah, that technically may have been DPI by rule.

In real time at game speed, very few flank officials will see it or call it when it's bang-bang like that. The BJ had no view of it, so the call would have to come from the sideline officials. DB just made good play on the ball.

Posted
1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

No it’s the wrong read because it’s a Low percentage pass on 4th down, it’s the secondary read in this specific play btw. The read on this concept is always inside out. 

The rub is meant to get Wingo free but it wasn't wrong to throw that out.m He didn't know his wr was going to run a shit route. He saw a receiver that won his release on the snap. Nothing wrong with that decision. I am more concerned with his inaccuracy and inability to layer the football. 

Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Thatguy said:

No, you sir, are the idiot. Go watch the play in motion again. The safety starts out moving towards Wingo but when he realizes Manning isn't looking there he stops. I am not sure if you are athletic at all or played ball with any high level athletes, but they cover ground really fast. That safety probably runs a 4.4 40. There are 6-7 yards between him and Wingo. That ball needs to travel 15 yards at that angle. He will get there when Wingo catches that ball. 

You see the reason why Ohio State was number one in the country defensively last year isn't because they called magic plays on defense, it's because they had bigger, faster players. They were the stingiest team in the country in the red zone for a reason. Because they can close on plays like these and dislodge the football. Later we are going to run this same play vs MSU or UTEP and Parker Livingstone is going to be open by a mile on the break, and Wingo will walk into the EZ on that rub. But on this day Livingstone was getting his pockets checked the whole way through his route and Wingo would've gotten hit as soon as he caught the football. The only way that doesn't happen is if Manning throws it as soon as the rub happens, but he smartly waits to see if it's man or zone since Ohio State fooled him earlier in the game. 

 

It’s like you’ve never watched football before, that quick slant is a throw that gets made at every level all the time. Wingo has at least 10 yards separating himself from the safety and the throw should lead him upfield, he’s basically wide open.

Edited by elguapo
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