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2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.


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Posted
2 minutes ago, linux said:

Common sense is the death of reason, its like superstition dressed up in nerd glasses.

Gimme data, or give me history not your common sense, the common sense that Donald Trump should have never gotten to this point is why the system was shit and designed to fail.

WTF are you talking about dude.  What data or history exists regarding an 80+ year old borderline senile politician running for President?  The data doesn't exist because nobody has been dumb enough to try it until now.

Posted
1 minute ago, Red Five said:


If you can’t see the obvious difference, I don’t know what to tell you.

There isn't an obvious difference he is not doing that terror face every day, just for 5 minutes in a fucking debate people that has passed and people are not punishing him for.

If Biden were doing the terror face daily you guys might have a point but all of you are acting like tapper running that tape again and again and again and again, because you rather be right than win.

Posted

I wasn't kidding earlier about a Biden still being the primary candidate, but with a clear and communicated plan to step down mid term so it's an election for the current administration and cabinet with a transition plan to take effect over the 2025-2026 timeframe. This is the graceful way out, the question then becomes is Kamala the right person to pass the torch to or is it someone else? 

None of these other candidates y'all are throwing out there make any fucking sense as president so stop kidding yourselves it needs to be someone that's currently part of the admin and know how to run things the same way as joe with little lost in the transition. 

Posted
WTF are you talking about dude.  What data or history exists regarding an 80+ year old borderline senile politician running for President?  The data doesn't exist because nobody has been dumb enough to try it until now.

I voted for Biden in 2020, he was the symbol of democracy, very inspiring in many ways, this isn’t the same guy, the decline has been sharp and rapid.
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Posted
1 minute ago, linux said:

No shit I would vote for Romney if he was in Biden's place, but Biden got to where he is at by winning elections, the same thing we are panicked on him losing. I was pissed when he crushed South Carolina, the stutterer just wins elections and we want to throw it all away because we are being neurotic and overthinking things.

Acknowledging that really old people tend to get older isn't "being neurotic and overthinking things."

As has been said 1000 times, everyone here except Rex is still voting for him. Shit, we may even be able to convince BrickTop. We don't fucking matter. We're asking Joe Public in Arizona--who probably isn't as keyed in to the importance of his vote to preserving our democracy--to vote for someone in severe decline who they're going to hide whenever possible that almost certainly won't be President by the end of their term. That's a big ask.

We'd all LOVE to be proven wrong--that the debate was just a fluke--and he's still relatively sharp for his age.

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Posted
There isn't an obvious difference he is not doing that terror face every day, just for 5 minutes in a fucking debate people that has passed and people are not punishing him for.
If Biden were doing the terror face daily you guys might have a point but all of you are acting like tapper running that tape again and again and again and again, because you rather be right than win.

What in the holy fuck are you talking about?
Posted

https://politicalwire.com/2024/07/02/most-think-democrats-have-better-chance-without-biden/
 

Most Think Democrats Have Better Chance Without Biden

July 2, 2024 at 12:36 pm EDT By Taegan Goddard 485 Comments

A new CNN poll finds three-quarters of voters say Democrats would have a better shot at holding the presidency in 2024 with someone other than Joe Biden at the top of the ticket.

Spoiler

Biden’s approval rating also has hit a new low of 36% following a shaky performance in the first debate.

In a general election matchup, voters nationwide favor Donald Trump over Biden by 6 points, 49% to 43%, identical to the results of CNN’s national poll on the presidential race in April.

The poll also finds Vice President Kamala Harris within striking distance of Trump in a hypothetical matchup: 47% support Trump, 45% Harris, a result within the margin of error that suggests there is no clear leader under such a scenario.

But let’s wait until after the Election to consider what voters think.  There will be ample time for it in the gulag.

 

artworks-SvzDuFfyt3AJ9fO1-iQrV9Q-t500x50

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Posted
1 minute ago, Skipper said:

WTF are you talking about dude.  What data or history exists regarding an 80+ year old borderline senile politician running for President?  The data doesn't exist because nobody has been dumb enough to try it until now.

I mean the other idiot is borderline 80 as well? your common sense is completely useless because according to you neither Trump nor Biden should be electable but here we are.

Again your common sense is useless, it is not matching up with reality, it is like arguing that quantum mechanics have no common sense hence it is fake, it is loser talk.

Posted
7 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Booker would appease black voters who might be upset about dumping Harris so there's that.  Also younger and telegenic.

I think Whitmer is actually younger, but I take your point.

Posted
Just now, BrickTop said:


I voted for Biden in 2020, he was the symbol of democracy, very inspiring in many ways, this isn’t the same guy, the decline has been sharp and rapid.

just like trump.  it's not like he's running against a 55 year old.  trump has declined as well and is still the POS he's always been.

Posted
Acknowledging that really old people tend to get older isn't "being neurotic and overthinking things."
As has been said 1000 times, everyone here except Rex is still voting for him. Shit, we may even be able to convince BrickTop. We don't fucking matter. We're asking Joe Public in Arizona--who probably isn't as keyed in to the importance of his vote to preserving our democracy--to vote for someone in severe decline who they're going to hide whenever possible that almost certainly won't be President by the end of their term. That's a big ask.
We'd all LOVE to be proven wrong--that the debate was just a fluke--and he's still relatively sharp for his age.

I’m now Joe Public in Colorado, does my vote count?
Posted
1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

Acknowledging that really old people tend to get older isn't "being neurotic and overthinking things."

As has been said 1000 times, everyone here except Rex is still voting for him. Shit, we may even be able to convince BrickTop. We don't fucking matter. We're asking Joe Public in Arizona--who probably isn't as keyed in to the importance of his vote to preserving our democracy--to vote for someone in severe decline who they're going to hide whenever possible that almost certainly won't be President by the end of their term. That's a big ask.

We'd all LOVE to be proven wrong--that the debate was just a fluke--and he's still relatively sharp for his age.

All the polling data says you are wrong and you still want to be proven right, color me unimpressed.

Posted
just like trump.  it's not like he's running against a 55 year old.  trump has declined as well and is still the POS he's always been.

Agreed, that’s why I said neither.
Posted
Just now, linux said:

All the polling data says you are wrong and you still want to be proven right, color me unimpressed.

Polls haven't been right about jack shit since like 2010

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Posted
11 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Neither do those who have been ignoring the warnings for the past 8 years by nominating Clinton and Biden, when the electorate was sending crystal clear signals that they wanted a change.

You don't understand what being an independent means, do you?  We have political ideologies that span both parties.  We tend to vote for candidates, not parties.

The Dems can bitch about it, and lose, or take our opinions into consideration by putting forth an inspiring candidate and win.  Your choice.

 

5 minutes ago, BrickTop said:


Perfectly stated, it’s not the party it’s the candidate.

It's also the entire administration they bring with them, comprising the leadership of the entire Executive Branch and the direction they steer the entire bureaucratic apparatus. Right now, I believe that's 6,000 or so political appointees who generally believe in good governance. Together, they have a pretty strong track record of competency and running things with a steady hand.

Under Trump, Project 2025 calls for firing and replacing 60,000 nonpolitical professionals with political hacks that must undergo an ideological vetting process to ensure their personal loyalties to a thoroughly corrupt and volatile old man also showing signs of dementia, Donald J. Trump, and they have a pretty clear agenda to tear it all down. They've plainly stated that's their goal; believe them.

*****

This is the first time I've weighed in since the debate, which I studiously avoided because debates have completely devolved into dog-and-pony shows where nothing of substance is discussed anymore. There are also the issues with Biden, who's never been a strong communicator, and with Trump, who is an infuriating, lying blowhard.

Consider the following as y'all contemplate how you're going to go through your decision matrix on voting.

A modern president's job entails:

  1. Choosing a team,
  2. Making decisions with that team, and
  3. Communicating those decisions to the American people

Between the two main candidates, whom do you trust most under the current circumstances, given the 4 years we experienced under the Trump Administration or the 3 1/2 years we experienced under the Biden Administration?

Also, keep in mind that they're both old men, and either of them could croak within the next four years. Which "team" would you trust most to handle a smooth transition to whoever would be elevated from the Vice Presidency?

These are obviously not ideal circumstances, and I certainly wish it were different, but this is where we're at.

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Posted
All the polling data says you are wrong and you still want to be proven right, color me unimpressed.

There’s a discussion to be had about how useful polling data is, but the data is not making the argument that you think it is.

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Posted
Just now, immamac said:

Polls haven't been right about jack shit since like 2010

They have, 538 correctly picked every single senate seat in 2020, including the second round needed in Georgia, they have been terrible in the past, but according to people here Biden should have cratered like he is now polling at 20% or something when he has actually gained a margin of error. That is nowhere near reality.

Posted
12 minutes ago, linux said:

The last sentence is pure wishcasting without any semblance of reality or historical record, one could argue that female presidential candidates have 0% chance based on history. and like a 1% chance based on primary data.

Perhaps, but also perhaps you haven't been listening to the independents on this board clamoring for change.  You don't think people waxing poetic about Romney would vote for Whitmer?

Like it or not, we independents are the ones who will determine the outcome of this election.  

Hate on us, make fun of us, call us stupid, whatever, but the fact remains.

Posted
Just now, DixonHur said:

Perhaps, but also perhaps you haven't been listening to the independents on this board clamoring for change.  You don't think people waxing poetic about Romney would vote for Whitmer?

Like it or not, we independents are the ones who will determine the outcome of this election.  

Hate on us, make fun of us, call us stupid, whatever, but the fact remains.

Ironically I am less worried about independents than I am about democrats just crying themselves to sleep and not going to the polls.

Posted
3 minutes ago, linux said:

All the polling data says you are wrong and you still want to be proven right, color me unimpressed.

What data do you have at this point? A couple national polls? Who gives a fuck about those. Biden is underwater in every swing state right now. You want all this fucking data. There is none! We are in uncharted waters. You truly, deep down in your gut, believe Biden is the best chance at beating trump? 

Posted
9 minutes ago, BrickTop said:


Wasn’t the stutter for me at all, it was the mumbling the facial expressions the loss of train of thought on multiple occasions, the mouth agape, the general projection of feebility.

I disagree with your characterization, but even if you are 100% correct, do you really see that as worse than the alternative? Sometimes, this year in particular, it's just as important to vote against someone that it is for someone else. Worst case scenario his very competent cabinet and/or VP do the work for the next 4 years. That should be good enough considering what is happening in this country.

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Posted
Just now, SubliminalHorn said:

What data do you have at this point? A couple national polls? Who gives a fuck about those. Biden is underwater in every swing state right now. You want all this fucking data. There is none! We are in uncharted waters. You truly, deep down in your gut, believe Biden is the best chance at beating trump? 

Donald Trump has worse polling than when he did in 2020 (I am talking about his points not the delta), meaning that this entire election is close because people are panicking and wishcasting their own perfect candidate that A) does not exist B) will NOT have consensus even if he or she did C) Would be torn back down to earth in no time.

Posted
1 minute ago, 'stache said:

I disagree with your characterization, but even if you are 100% correct, do you really see that as worse than the alternative? Sometimes, this year in particular, it's just as important to vote against someone that it is for someone else. Worst case scenario his very competent cabinet and/or VP do the work for the next 4 years. That should be good enough considering what is happening in this country.

Is it really hard to fathom that someone doesn't want a brain mush candidate as much as they don't want the orange Cheetoh? 

A lot of people haven't made the connection that this is fascism vs democracy on the ballot because they aren't tuned in. 

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Posted
16 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

female so might drive opposition turnout

I doubt it... pretty sure all the incels and misogynists are already voting Trump.

16 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

blacks may not turn out for her

Her state is like 17% African American and they turn out for her.  If you're black and voting for a white corpse, I think a 52-year-old white woman would be a suitable alternative.

Let's not forget that Kamala has a lower approval rating among black voters than Biden, so I don't think many would be turned off by her being passed over.

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Posted
I disagree with your characterization, but even if you are 100% correct, do you really see that as worse than the alternative? Sometimes, this year in particular, it's just as important to vote against someone that it is for someone else. Worst case scenario his very competent cabinet and/or VP do the work for the next 4 years. That should be good enough considering what is happening in this country.

As I said, it’s about the candidate not the party,the lack of transparency or acknowledgement of the potential underlying condition concerns me enough, I know you’ll say voting for neither is like voting for Trump but as you stated, I disagree with that characterization.
Posted
Just now, immamac said:

Is it really hard to fathom that someone doesn't want a brain mush candidate as much as they don't want the orange Cheetoh? 

A lot of people haven't made the connection that this is fascism vs democracy on the ballot because they aren't tuned in. 

his position is 100% understandable. I share it. But I will vote for a corpse because of fascism.

Posted
26 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

see? this is why it's hard to take you seriously. checkered past? the dude is a twice impeached (should have been twice convicted) rapist felon former president with 50+ more felony indictments to wade through. the other guy is old. same same, again

See? This is why it’s hard to take you seriously. Old? Potentially serious mental decline is not “old”. 

Posted
Her state is like 17% African American and they turn out for her.  If you're black and voting for a white corpse, I think a 52-year-old white woman would be a suitable alternative.
Let's not forget that Kamala has a lower approval rating among black voters than Biden, so I don't think many would be turned off by her being passed over.

I’d vote for Whitmer in a heartbeat.

I’d vote for Whitmer in a heartbeat.

Oops wrong candidate.
Posted
Just now, immamac said:

Is it really hard to fathom that someone doesn't want a brain mush candidate as much as they don't want the orange Cheetoh? 

A lot of people haven't made the connection that this is fascism vs democracy on the ballot because they aren't tuned in. 

I would still like to see his poll numbers crumble or collapse after the debate to make that decision, with data, we are not seeing that.

What I am seeing is people thinking they can get their candidate in. That is what is killing making him lose projections (I am voting for Bernie of staying home!), ironically his polling numbers should be a disaster with how many people think they are right.

Posted
1 minute ago, linux said:

Donald Trump has worse polling than when he did in 2020 (I am talking about his points not the delta), meaning that this entire election is close because people are panicking and wishcasting their own perfect candidate that A) does not exist B) will NOT have consensus even if he or she did C) Would be torn back down to earth in no time.

Enthusiasm is down across the board. There have been numerous calls for different candidates, even on the GQP side for a while. Nobody wants these two. Biden had a close win with a voting participation rate that was the highest in recent memory. That isn’t going to happen this time. That portends disaster for him and us

Posted
24 minutes ago, Longhorn94 said:

the economy is great. people are better off than they were under Trump. the only problems we have with the economy are BECAUSE of Trump's policies and presidency. This election will be about a good economy, lowest unemployment in 50 years, WOMEN's RIGHTS, the fucking supreme court, and oh yeah DEMOCRACY. If those issues don't get the same 2020 voters plus a shitload of people who previously supported Trump to switch sides then we deserve the dystopian future that would be in store for us all with another Trump presidency. 

this is a stupid fucking argument at this point. Biden has had what many consider to be the most legislatively successful 3.5 years of any president in the last 50 years. He has a booming economy at his back and bright future ahead. 

You do realize that the only reason we are having this conversation is that the bolded portion?  That the bolded portion does appear to be ready to completely trump the unbolded portion?

The argument is that a new candidate will be able to jettison the age issue while carrying virtually all the positive baggage from Biden's Presidency.

 

Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, immamac said:

Is it really hard to fathom that someone doesn't want a brain mush candidate as much as they don't want the orange Cheetoh? 

A lot of people haven't made the connection that this is fascism vs democracy on the ballot because they aren't tuned in. 

It's not hard to fathom because we're a country full of disinterested voters, but I think it's absolute lunacy to think the worst case scenario under Biden is the same or worse than the best case scenario under trump. 

Edited by 'stache
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Posted
11 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Since you are here, I would just implore you, if these are the two choices in November, to vote for the people that they've chosen to surround themselves with. The Biden White House is supremely competent and can easily withstand an "in name only" President. 

Trump's White House was full of literal criminals, the slimiest people on Earth, and constant turnover. His answer to that is going to be surround himself with even more loyal leaches. They're not even hiding it, hence Project 2025. He is the swamp. Birth control and gay marriage bans ARE coming, among many other horrible things, whether they directly effect you or not.

It's a shitty choice...but it's still a remarkably easy choice.

This is something that never gets discussed at this point because of all the other fuckery going on, but Trump was a terrible leader with historically high turnover in his administration. Pretty much anyone who was competent or decent was either forced out or quit when they saw how dysfunctional it was with their own eyes. John Kelly, Rex Tillerson, Jeff Sessions, Jim Mattis, John Bolton, etc. The cabinet for a 2nd Trump term won't be chosen based on competency, it will be loyalty to Trump above all else.

I hear a lot of people talk about how they can't vote for Biden because he's too old, but the job is waaaaaay too big for one person. Leadership and selecting good people to be around you is just as big or maybe even a bigger predictor of success and competency imo.

image.thumb.png.a8ef57d49854b1f8077245984edfe12e.png

 

 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Perhaps, but also perhaps you haven't been listening to the independents on this board clamoring for change.  You don't think people waxing poetic about Romney would vote for Whitmer?

Like it or not, we independents are the ones who will determine the outcome of this election.  

Hate on us, make fun of us, call us stupid, whatever, but the fact remains.

Independents who even loosely follow politics and always vote aren't really my concern. I trust them to be able to do the Biden's Cabinet and agenda >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump's Cabinet and agenda math.

It's the people who don't always vote, that don't fully realize the importance of this election that will stay home or show just how "independent" and fed up with bad choices they are by voting for [checks notes] RFKjr.

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Posted
1 minute ago, BrickTop said:

I think most are scared about switching candidates this close to the election, I think most would be surprised of the outcome.

I think you and many fail to realize what "switching" means from an operational standpoint. It's not a light switch. There are machines built by campaigns over years in some cases. It would not be an easy thing to do to switch, it might even be next to impossible with enough time to guarantee a better outcome. no time to iterate on messaging, no time to build up a staff, you hope the biden campaign team just moves over in support. in theory that makes sense, but it's not going to be clean, quick or easy. and we have only 120 days.

Posted
This is something that never gets discussed at this point because of all the other fuckery going on, but Trump was a terrible leader with historically high turnover in his administration. Pretty much anyone who was competent or decent was either forced out or quit when they saw how dysfunctional it was with their own eyes. John Kelly, Rex Tillerson, Jeff Sessions, Jim Mattis, John Bolton, etc. The cabinet for a 2nd Trump term won't be chosen based on competency, it will be loyalty to Trump above all else.
I hear a lot of people talk about how they can't vote for Biden because he's too old, but the job is waaaaaay too big for one person. Leadership and selecting good people to be around you is just as big or maybe even a bigger predictor of success and competency imo.
image.thumb.png.a8ef57d49854b1f8077245984edfe12e.png
 
 

That’s because he was never a leader, he managed to amass wealth in business then dodge consequence by filing bankruptcy. More of a slick huckster.
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Posted

Donald Trump has 40-42% in polls, that is way way way lower than 2020 even his ceiling of 45% is 100% guarantee of failure.

He can only win if the 53% anti trump coalition does not vote. That is it that is his only path to victory, not if Biden dies tomorrow, not if he falls asleep every single day, (the latter based on polling) it is the 53% not showing up for the polls and the only scenario I see this happening is in a democrat civil war.

 

Posted
I think you and many fail to realize what "switching" means from an operational standpoint. It's not a light switch. There are machines built by campaigns over years in some cases. It would not be an easy thing to do to switch, it might even be next to impossible with enough time to guarantee a better outcome. no time to iterate on messaging, no time to build up a staff, you hope the biden campaign team just moves over in support. in theory that makes sense, but it's not going to be clean, quick or easy. and we have only 120 days.

I totally agree it would be a monumental task, I also think if they don’t he loses.
Posted
2 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

See? This is why it’s hard to take you seriously. Old? Potentially serious mental decline is not “old”. 

you're not dealing in facts. one is a perception. one is fact. both guys are for sure old. one guy is for sure a felon and rapist. one guy stutters, pauses before he responds so he doesn't stutter. one guy lies incessantly. one guy tells us the truth even if we don't like it. one guy tried to overthrow democracy. one guy is trying to save it. unless and until Biden's doctor comes out and says he is unfit for duty, he is factually the better candidate of the two. I refuse to deal in what-ifs and likely scenarios. that's been the republican way of ruling forever - make us fear what "might" happen instead of addressing the reality in front of us. If biden is the nominee he gets my vote. if it's someone else, they will in turn. no way in shit I'm voting R ever again.

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Posted
58 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

It’s interesting that people think that’s a flex. It’s not. It’s just what people do because their country’s antiquated political system dictated two woefully substandard candidates to them. 

i am just going to hope that the folks that fell in this camp in 2016 - 'they are both terrible, boo, im just not voting!' - will remember what it felt like on 11/9/2016. there were a lot of people in my social/work circles that expressed similar sentiments... and the next day they were walking around in shock 😐 shaking their heads in disbelief. one even articulated 'i mean, i didn't think he would WIN!' 🤬

same as Brexit. idiots.

 

Posted
you're not dealing in facts. one is a perception. one is fact. both guys are for sure old. one guy is for sure a felon and rapist. one guy stutters, pauses before he responds so he doesn't stutter. one guy lies incessantly. one guy tells us the truth even if we don't like it. one guy tried to overthrow democracy. one guy is trying to save it. unless and until Biden's doctor comes out and says he is unfit for duty, he is factually the better candidate of the two. I refuse to deal in what-ifs and likely scenarios. that's been the republican way of ruling forever - make us fear what "might" happen instead of addressing the reality in front of us. If biden is the nominee he gets my vote. if it's someone else, they will in turn. no way in shit I'm voting R ever again.

How many Americans you think rely upon perception instead of fact?
Posted
10 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

 

Let's not forget that Kamala has a lower approval rating among black voters than Biden, so I don't think many would be turned off by her being passed over.

Link?

 

 

IMG_0156.jpeg

Posted
11 minutes ago, bolverk said:

 

It's also the entire administration they bring with them, comprising the leadership of the entire Executive Branch and the direction they steer the entire bureaucratic apparatus. Right now, I believe that's 6,000 or so political appointees who generally believe in good governance. Together, they have a pretty strong track record of competency and running things with a steady hand.

Under Trump, Project 2025 calls for firing and replacing 60,000 nonpolitical professionals with political hacks that must undergo an ideological vetting process to ensure their personal loyalties to a thoroughly corrupt and volatile old man also showing signs of dementia, Donald J. Trump, and they have a pretty clear agenda to tear it all down. They've plainly stated that's their goal; believe them.

*****

This is the first time I've weighed in since the debate, which I studiously avoided because debates have completely devolved into dog-and-pony shows where nothing of substance is discussed anymore. There are also the issues with Biden, who's never been a strong communicator, and with Trump, who is an infuriating, lying blowhard.

Consider the following as y'all contemplate how you're going to go through your decision matrix on voting.

A modern president's job entails:

  1. Choosing a team,
  2. Making decisions with that team, and
  3. Communicating those decisions to the American people

Between the two main candidates, whom do you trust most under the current circumstances, given the 4 years we experienced under the Trump Administration or the 3 1/2 years we experienced under the Biden Administration?

Also, keep in mind that they're both old men, and either of them could croak within the next four years. Which "team" would you trust most to handle a smooth transition to whoever would be elevated from the Vice Presidency?

These are obviously not ideal circumstances, and I certainly wish it were different, but this is where we're at.

This is a great overview of how people "should" make their decisions, but I fear you are miscalculating/overestimating the electorate.  

I have more than a few friends who have openly stated they won't vote for either Biden or Trump.  But they've also said they would vote if the Dems nominated someone else... not named Newsome (comes off slimy) or Harris.

That's all folks like @BrickTop are saying.

Again, it might not make sense in your brain, but 40% of American thinking Trump is amazing probably doesn't either, so take our warnings with a grain of salt if you like.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, BrickTop said:

I think most are scared about switching candidates this close to the election, I think most would be surprised of the outcome.

It is not scared, it is about the data, people really like to vote for Biden, primaries and elections post Trump prove it, we are looking to cast all of that aside for neoriticsm and unprovable theories.

Biden is too old to be president could literally end up being as relevant as Biden is too short to be president, or Biden is too ugly to be president, there is no result out there that has ever proven this, hell voters prefer older candidates more and more and more.

What if Democrats had said in 2020 only 60 year on younger can ride this ride? the electorate could have stayed home have any of you considered that a good chunk of it are old people? Biden wins elections, all we have are theories that he will not.

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