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All Things Brisket


kevwun

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I think that may be the step they seem to miss on brisket here, the resting part. Most of it is lacking in flavor and too tough. Also, the vinegar, do you use white vinegar or apple cider vinegar. Do you just baste with it or marinate it before putting the salt and pepper rub on it?


That and the whole cooking with (mostly) gas part.
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2 hours ago, AustinMT said:

Mustard, apple cider and Worchestershire on BRISKET?????

I am plus or minus on the mustard. Don’t really think it’s necessary. I always use a spritz though. I don’t see any problem with vinegar and worsty for that use. 

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1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

I am plus or minus on the mustard. Don’t really think it’s necessary. I always use a spritz though. I don’t see any problem with vinegar and worsty for that use. 

Are you from Texas?

honestly, there should never be vinegar or Worcestershire on a brisket.  Ever.

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Don’t agree with that statement at all. Using a spray bottle with 1:1 water:acv/woosty as a binder or to make your rub lay down is absolutely acceptable. And you’d probably be surprised by the number of highly regarded bbq guys in Texas who use this technique.

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12 minutes ago, AustinMT said:

Are you from Texas?

honestly, there should never be vinegar or Worcestershire on a brisket.  Ever.

I think you are a bit over your skis on this one. I am not really dogmatic about it one way or the other, but vinegar based mop sauces were always used at family BBQ in south central texas when I was growing up.  Of course they didn't used pipe offsets to BBQ, just big cinder block pits and fire management. I am not opposed to anybody who doesn't think it adds anything and doesn't want to use a spritz.  Truth is that I don't think that it adds much in way of flavor and is not totally necessary, just adding some moisture to things. But vinegar and/or worchestershire in the spritz bottle is pretty common and well within the norms of Central Texas brisket orthodoxy. 

Worsty:

http://ediblehouston.ediblecommunities.com/recipes/right-que-brisket-lone-star-state

Vinegar:


 

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2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I think you are a bit over your skis on this one. I am not really dogmatic about it one way or the other, but vinegar based mop sauces were always used at family BBQ in south central texas when I was growing up.  Of course they didn't used pipe offsets to BBQ, just big cinder block pits and fire management. I am not opposed to anybody who doesn't think it adds anything and doesn't want to use a spritz.  Truth is that I don't think that it adds much in way of flavor and is not totally necessary, just adding some moisture to things. But vinegar and/or worchestershire in the spritz bottle is pretty common and well within the norms of Central Texas brisket orthodoxy. 

Worsty:

http://ediblehouston.ediblecommunities.com/recipes/right-que-brisket-lone-star-state

Vinegar:


 

Whatever suits your palate

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Hickory/pecan is fine.  It's milder than oak which is why I use it on fowl and stick to oak on beef, but if there's a serious problem with their cooking, using hickory ain't it.

As was indicated earlier, if it's tough, it's probably undercooked.  Seems counter-intuitive to many people.

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48 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Hickory/pecan is fine.  It's milder than oak which is why I use it on fowl and stick to oak on beef, but if there's a serious problem with their cooking, using hickory ain't it.

As was indicated earlier, if it's tough, it's probably undercooked.  Seems counter-intuitive to many people.

I use a blend of hickory and pecan on brisket and have been very happy with the results. 

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33 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Vinegar goes great on bbq either as a spray or mop.  That's an old time Texas thing as has been mentioned.

I get the mop thing.  I just don’t like it on beef.  Just like sugar doesn’t go on brisket either.  If you like it that way, I understand.  

 

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10 hours ago, utee94 said:

I don't have a problem with someone using a spritz.  I do think it odd to say that vinegar is "required" for it to be considered BBQ.

I can assure you, it is not.

Pitmaster John fullilove from amity’s and Chef ara from Harlem road bbq both told me that for something to officially be considered bbq that vinegar has to touch the meat. I don’t know if they’re right or wrong on that, but they know way more than me. 

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9 hours ago, kevwun said:

Vinegar goes great on bbq either as a spray or mop.  That's an old time Texas thing as has been mentioned.

My dear old dad (born and raised in Texas) smoked a mean brisket in his day and he always used vinegar in his mop sauce.  But as he taught me to cook, he always said to not over do it.  He would never baste the meat until the third hour or so of cooking so the rub (he used a little paprika and garlic powder in addition to salt and pepper) would stay on.  And he only basted two or three times and never in the final hour.  His mop sauce was margarine, vinegar, onions, a little Worcestershire, lemon and salt.  

The last 15 years or so  I haven't used a mop sauce and I've only used salt and pepper.  In his honor my next one will be cooked with a mop sauce.

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I think that may be the step they seem to miss on brisket here, the resting part. Most of it is lacking in flavor and too tough. Also, the vinegar, do you use white vinegar or apple cider vinegar. Do you just baste with it or marinate it before putting the salt and pepper rub on it?


Living in Georgia, which is mostly brisket wasteland (with a couple of notable exceptions), without question the mistake I encounter the most is not cooking it long enough. I was at a poker tournament recently where a local “chef” prepared brisket for about 40 people. It was tough as shoe leather but the locals raved about it and the chef just beamed. I thought it was inedible.

Growing up I thought bbq = pig and brisket just sucked. But about ten years ago I did five years working for a big computer company in Round Rock so I experienced the Lockhart Trifecta, Franklin, and Mueller and saw the light. I’m no guru but when I cook a brisket now for people (after having experienced and learnt from Texans) they are completely blown away.

The second most common error is that it’s just old and dry, and often chopped to the point of just being crumbles. It’s sad.

That said, we do have a couple of transplants in the ATL area now who know what they are doing around beef. Fox Bros, Loyal Q, and to a certain extent Grand Champion are pretty legit. But Texas is still king.
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Mustard, apple cider and Worchestershire on BRISKET?????

Are you from Texas?
honestly, there should never be vinegar or Worcestershire on a brisket.  Ever.

Whatever suits your palate




'Christ almighty it's like I'm sitting here smoking brisket with my brother's kids or something, nerve racking sons of bitches!'
~surly


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4 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

 




The second most common error is that it’s just old and dry, and often chopped to the point of just being crumbles. It’s sad.

That said, we do have a couple of transplants in the ATL area now who know what they are doing around beef. Fox Bros, Loyal Q, and to a certain extent Grand Champion are pretty legit. But Texas is still king.

 

Yeah, that "brisket" I had yesterday, it was juicy enough but was chopped into tiny pieces, was chewy and zero flavor. The pork ribs were dry and you had to gnaw them off the bone.

 

Had Fox Bros brisket and it is really good, miles better than anything I have found anywhere in AL but still a notch below what I found in TX at even semi chain places like Hard Eight. I know they are from TX originally but maybe it is just a question of the source for their meat, not being as fresh or local stock not being of the same quality.

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20 hours ago, ChampKind said:

Don’t agree with that statement at all. Using a spray bottle with 1:1 water:acv/woosty as a binder or to make your rub lay down is absolutely acceptable. And you’d probably be surprised by the number of highly regarded bbq guys in Texas who use this technique.

So are you using it?

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A few spritzes of ACV/Water mixture early on helps the bark to set up a bit better.  Plain water probably would work as well.    If you wrap, a few more sprays doesn't hurt. 

None of it comes through in the final product any more than a mustard/pickle juice binder does.  Same thing goes with complicated rubs.  I've whittled it down to salt/pepper plus a little cayenne for a touch of heat.  Binder, be it olive oil, mustard, acv, woosty, whatever doesn't matter much.  Just get it to stick.  Spray to set it up and keep it moist.  In the end, you get way more from the salt/pepper/wood than anything.

Edited by dcbc
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16 hours ago, ChampKind said:

Hi. My name is brown sugar. I’m an integral part of rubs for smoked pork and poultry.

Brown sugar, how come you taste so good

Brown sugar just like a young girl should.

 

Oh Champ you sexy b**** LOL

Edited by SHOOTER12
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1 hour ago, ChampKind said:

 


Yes. After I trim I spray em down with 1:1 water:acv to help the salt and pepper adhere to the surface. Then I hit them again to make the pepper lay down. Don’t know that it has any affect on taste, but its my process. And it works.

 

I’ve never had an issue with the salt and pepper adhering to a brisket.  That said, I’m not doing volume like you, so I understand how that could help when you are handling that many.

But I will go back to my original point (and the originals post) — layering mustard and then using Worcestershire and acv, which the original post suggested, or a mop,  goes far beyond what you are doing, and is a hard pass for me.

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1 hour ago, ChampKind said:

Yes. After I trim I spray em down with 1:1 water:acv to help the salt and pepper adhere to the surface. Then I hit them again to make the pepper lay down. Don’t know that it has any affect on taste, but its my process. And it works.

 

Yeah, but you don’t shit about Texas BBQ. 

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From the Franklin BBQ videos I remember, Aaron uses the ACV spray to help determine the true color of the bark, making sure it's a nice mahogany before he's ready to wrap.  That's what I use when I smoke brisket or any other meat for that matter.  If it's good enough for Franklin, who am I to question the practice?

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I’ve never had an issue with the salt and pepper adhering to a brisket.  That said, I’m not doing volume like you, so I understand how that could help when you are handling that many.
But I will go back to my original point (and the originals post) — layering mustard and then using Worcestershire and acv, which the original post suggested, or a mop,  goes far beyond what you are doing, and is a hard pass for me.
That just dumb, if it taste good eat it
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10 minutes ago, Smax said:
14 hours ago, AustinMT said:
I’ve never had an issue with the salt and pepper adhering to a brisket.  That said, I’m not doing volume like you, so I understand how that could help when you are handling that many.
But I will go back to my original point (and the originals post) — layering mustard and then using Worcestershire and acv, which the original post suggested, or a mop,  goes far beyond what you are doing, and is a hard pass for me.

That just dumb, if it taste good eat it

Please tell me how a combination of mustard, worcestershire and vinegar would improve a brisket taste.

Nice grammar, by the way

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15 hours ago, AustinMT said:

I’ve never had an issue with the salt and pepper adhering to a brisket.  That said, I’m not doing volume like you, so I understand how that could help when you are handling that many.

But I will go back to my original point (and the originals post) — layering mustard and then using Worcestershire and acv, which the original post suggested, or a mop,  goes far beyond what you are doing, and is a hard pass for me.

I think you're making way too much of this.  You do not layer anything.  more an extremely small amount just to get the salt and pepper to adhere.  It is not a coating or anything of the sort.  I would guess a 1/2 teaspoon would be more than enough for a brisket.  The light spray is probably less than that.  

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I’ve never had an issue with the salt and pepper adhering to a brisket.  That said, I’m not doing volume like you, so I understand how that could help when you are handling that many.
But I will go back to my original point (and the originals post) — layering mustard and then using Worcestershire and acv, which the original post suggested, or a mop,  goes far beyond what you are doing, and is a hard pass for me.


I trim very aggressively, so a great deal of that surface moisture gets trimmed off. And what little remains gets absorbed by the kosher when I lay that down. So there is very little moisture left for the pepper to adhere to and it requires a “spritz” (fucking hate that word). And I use a lot of pepper. If I didn’t hit it with moisture again, it would fall off.

But yeah, the mustard/then spritz shit is retarded
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 Note to self: if you mention a slather step as an option for a beginner in the brisket making process to help with their rub adherence it’s going to take at least three pages to talk somebody who thinks they know more than they actually do about the dogmas of central Texas bbq off the ledge. 

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9 minutes ago, RMac5 said:

Was it John Lewis who introduced the pickle juice or did he pick that up from one of his employers?

There's some rumor out there that he brought that technique with him from Franklin, but who knows.  I tried the mustard cut with pickle juice and believe that it doesn't add anything tastewise compared to ACV, Worcestershire sauce, or olive oil.  My supposition is that there are a lot of pickle buckets full of juice available to BBQ restaurants, and they make a convenient thing to dip a packer brisket into before applying rub. 

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8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

 Note to self: if you mention a slather step as an option for a beginner in the brisket making process to help with their rub adherence it’s going to take at least three pages to talk somebody who thinks they know more than they actually do about the dogmas of central Texas bbq off the ledge. 

It’s OK to mention.  Honestly. I’ve never had an issue getting the salt and pepper to stick. See, e.g., the pictures I posted above from my brisket weekend before last.

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