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Posted

Daughter just bought a five year old house that had inspections from the seller and the mortgage companies and is dealing with all kinds of water issues.

Flooded kitchen which ruined the flooring and possibly the cabinets and now the guy checking for leaks says there are at least two in places.

WTF ?

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Posted (edited)

I'm confused.  Did she get her own inspections?  If not, why not?  How long have the leaks been happening?  The inspections explicitly state that there are no guarantees past the inspection.  

Incredulity is a faster typer

Edited by Catpfish
Posted

Also confused on what a mortgage inspection is.  I have never heard of a mortgage company doing an inspection unless you count an appraiser looking at a roof

Posted

No there was a seller inspection and a buyer’s inspection.

Once she installed and ran her new washer the kitchen flooded.

Plumbers came and snaked everything and said it was a clog but now the company the insurance company hired is checking for leaks and thinks there are a couple in the 3” drain line.

Who is responsible for that kind of thing?
She should not be but if she has to pay the deductible it could be thousands of dollars.

Posted
7 minutes ago, Catpfish said:

Also confused on what a mortgage inspection is.  I have never heard of a mortgage company doing an inspection unless you count an appraiser looking at a roof

I meant buyer’s inspection but I am pretty sure the mortgage company facilitated that but not positive.

There was a buyer’s inspection for sure.

Posted (edited)

She’s out of luck. 
 

get the 2 agents involved , maybe they can get the seller to  share in the repairs. 

Edited by jdhorn92
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Posted
10 minutes ago, Steamboat1874 said:

No there was a seller inspection and a buyer’s inspection.

Once she installed and ran her new washer the kitchen flooded.

Plumbers came and snaked everything and said it was a clog but now the company the insurance company hired is checking for leaks and thinks there are a couple in the 3” drain line.

Who is responsible for that kind of thing?
She should not be but if she has to pay the deductible it could be thousands of dollars.

I'm not sure how an inspector would find a leak in the drain line (assuming it's below slab level).  They could detect a leak in a supply line by seeing water flow when all faucets are turned off.  You also have the problem of the new washer being installed after any inspections. I imagine you would have a hard time proving that the installation didn't play a factor in the leak suddenly becoming an issue.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Catpfish said:

I'm not sure how an inspector would find a leak in the drain line (assuming it's below slab level).  They could detect a leak in a supply line by seeing water flow when all faucets are turned off.  You also have the problem of the new washer being installed after any inspections. I imagine you would have a hard time proving that the installation didn't play a factor in the leak suddenly becoming an issue.

The washer was checked after the flood and was confirmed to not be the problem.

Taking showers created the same issue.

 

Posted

If you can prove the seller knew about it and failed to disclose, you might have some recourse. Maybe also reach back out to your inspector and kick him in the nuts after you ask him of course what his thoughts are.
Otherwise, I think you’re SOL. Most home warranties have some kind of water leak coverage that might save her some money.

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Posted

The problem is that the leaks weren't found in the inspections.  If they are leaking as much water as it sounds like, there should have been evidence.  It sounds like something happened after the inspections.  If she can find some type of evidence that shows the seller hid the problem and didn't disclose it, it might be a different story.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Catpfish said:

The problem is that the leaks weren't found in the inspections.  If they are leaking as much water as it sounds like, there should have been evidence.  It sounds like something happened after the inspections.  If she can find some type of evidence that shows the seller hid the problem and didn't disclose it, it might be a different story.

Yeah, generally speaking, a buyer's inspection breaks the chain of causation for liability for latent defects UNLESS the seller had knowledge of the condition.  Then the seller has committed fraud if they didn't say something on the seller's disclosure.

So, she's stuck with a negligent inspection theory, if the inspection was actually negligent.  And likely only her inspector, not the mortgage company's or anyone else's.

The usual upshot of something like this is to demand compensation, based on the real cost of fixing the issues, from everyone in sight, sellers, realtors, inspectors, etc. And then when the one or two year statute of limitations (used to be two, but don't rely on me). approaches, sue everyone in sight, even though she probably can't recover from all of them.  During discovery there may be some finger-pointing that's helpful.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Posted

Assuming this is in Texas?

Real issues are laid out by others - have to prove knowledge (hard to do) and establish fraud in order to tag seller.  Unless you find a plumber in town who previously made a service call and didn't repair it because "they were gonna sell the home to an unsuspecting buyer" even the most obvious signs of problems don't necessarily prove knowledge.  I see this A LOT in foundation cases.  

- bigger issue there, at least in my experience, are they judgment proof?  Likely, yes.

Inspector - has its own issues.  Limitation of liability provision in the services agreement (usually capped at cost of report).  Likely can't assert DTPA claims given it was his "professional opinion" relied upon by the buyer.  

I would be very concerned about a foundation issue.  If there were no drain issues for years and now the new owner has issues, it could be that the foundation moved and fractured the line.  There is also an issue with tree roots clogging drain lines. Hard to sue the tree manufacturer.  

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Posted
30 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, generally speaking, a buyer's inspection breaks the chain of causation for liability for latent defects UNLESS the seller had knowledge of the condition.  Then the seller has committed fraud if they didn't say something on the seller's disclosure.

So, she's stuck with a negligent inspection theory, if the inspection was actually negligent.  And likely only her inspector, not the mortgage company's or anyone else's.

The usual upshot of something like this is to demand compensation, based on the real cost of fixing the issues, from everyone in sight, sellers, realtors, inspectors, etc. And then when the one or two year statute of limitations (used to be two, but don't rely on me). approaches, sue everyone in sight, even though she probably can't recover from all of them.  During discovery there may be some finger-pointing that's helpful.

Man I appreciate the information.

 

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Posted

You guys are the best.

Not sure what to do yet but I sure appreciate the Surly help and suggestions.

I told my wife and daughter I was looking for information but they have no idea where I was looking.

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Posted

I can provide an example from the seller side. About 15 years ago I sold a home and the buyer did her inspections and the transaction closed without a hitch. Within a month, the buyer found a pretty significant mold problem in the house. I had zero idea that it existed, but given the severity it would have been unlikely that it wasn’t there when she did her buyer’s inspection. Buyer’s agent calls my agent and my agent and asked what I was going to do about it and my agent ever so nicely told them “nothing” since the buyer did her due diligence and I had not been aware of the presence of mold in the home. I have no idea if the buyer ever went after the inspector, but it was clear that the buyer’s agent knew I had no liability because she was never heard from again after that short phone call to my agent. 

Posted
22 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

@TwiceHorn is now your lawyer fyi

Dendox appears to be much more current on this than I.  These cases are fairly common in Texas, and elsewhere, but the TREC contracts has changed some since I last dealt with it, and so have the laws here and there.  But I think the basics remain about the same.

I did represent the Seller in one of these where there was a foundation defect, basically from the build (ultimately we found out the builder used two parallams on the central beam when he should have used three by the foundation plan, sistered on a third, and the foundation started to deflect during construction and fucked up both the first and second floors of what would now be a $5-6M house.  And because the first floor started deflecting before the second floor was added, it wasn't a matter of simply lifting the whole thing.

My Seller probably should have known of the defect, but didn't actually know, and there were multiple inspections (initial general and foundation inspection), neither of which found the specific problem, but both noted some problematic deflections.

My guy got out on summary judgment.  

Posted
1 hour ago, Steamboat1874 said:

You guys are the best.

Not sure what to do yet but I sure appreciate the Surly help and suggestions.

I told my wife and daughter I was looking for information but they have no idea where I was looking.

Uh… there are rules…. for research purposes of course…

Posted (edited)

So you have leaking drain pipes and not leaking water pipes, correct?  I’ve seen many an ABS drain pipe get punctured by homeowners hanging pictures or other things on walls.  The holes don’t leak till the puncturing screw is removed from the ABS.  Which would happen when former owner moved?

If that happened it should be completely obvious to anyone who found the leaks

Edited by Incredulity
Posted
4 hours ago, Catpfish said:

Also confused on what a mortgage inspection is.  I have never heard of a mortgage company doing an inspection unless you count an appraiser looking at a roof

VA and FHA do a hybrid appraisal/inspection.   It's not a substitute for a "real" inspection, but, quite often, the VA or FHA appraiser will call out something and require a repair before close of escrow.  I've had an FHA appraiser call out peeling paint on fascia board, holes in window screens, etc. 

Conventional mortgages are straight appraisal.  The appraisal considers the condition of the property vs. comparables, but they don't call out repairs. 

Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, jdhorn92 said:

She’s out of luck. 
 

get the 2 agents involved , maybe they can get the seller to  share in the repairs. 

 

Edited by Gil Bang
Posted
2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Dendox appears to be much more current on this than I.  These cases are fairly common in Texas, and elsewhere, but the TREC contracts has changed some since I last dealt with it, and so have the laws here and there.  But I think the basics remain about the same.

I did represent the Seller in one of these where there was a foundation defect, basically from the build (ultimately we found out the builder used two parallams on the central beam when he should have used three by the foundation plan, sistered on a third, and the foundation started to deflect during construction and fucked up both the first and second floors of what would now be a $5-6M house.  And because the first floor started deflecting before the second floor was added, it wasn't a matter of simply lifting the whole thing.

My Seller probably should have known of the defect, but didn't actually know, and there were multiple inspections (initial general and foundation inspection), neither of which found the specific problem, but both noted some problematic deflections.

My guy got out on summary judgment.  

fucking Johnny Cochran over here.

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Posted

Hey guys I really appreciate your help.

I knew Surly would be the best place to ask for information.

Just like if something happens in the news this is the first place I am going to look.

i am not kidding.

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Posted
On 5/28/2025 at 2:32 PM, Catpfish said:

I'm not sure how an inspector would find a leak in the drain line (assuming it's below slab level).  They could detect a leak in a supply line by seeing water flow when all faucets are turned off.  You also have the problem of the new washer being installed after any inspections. I imagine you would have a hard time proving that the installation didn't play a factor in the leak suddenly becoming an issue.

Don’t they have a way to plug the end and then test the pressure?

Posted
On 5/28/2025 at 12:10 PM, Lerka Lerka said:

Inspections from the Seller? 
 

Has she already closed or still in option period? 
 

What state? 

Confusion

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Posted
47 minutes ago, Da Fino said:

Don’t they have a way to plug the end and then test the pressure?

Yep.  Hydrostatic water line test.  If the house was a flip they may have never used the lines with much flow.  But with the hydrostatic test you basically plug the drain line, fill to a level and look for any decline in the water line.  Basically a cheap way to try to discover foundational drainage issues.  But this sounds like water not from the drains, but from the supply side?  

Common one is under the dishwasher with a bad unseen connection.  Often on new installs where the washer was never run.

Super sorry that this is happening to your Daughter.  

 

Posted (edited)
On 5/28/2025 at 2:19 PM, Steamboat1874 said:

No there was a seller inspection and a buyer’s inspection.

Once she installed and ran her new washer the kitchen flooded.

Plumbers came and snaked everything and said it was a clog but now the company the insurance company hired is checking for leaks and thinks there are a couple in the 3” drain line.

Who is responsible for that kind of thing?
She should not be but if she has to pay the deductible it could be thousands of dollars.

Was there a working dishwasher in the house when she did inspections? Curious that she would need to buy and install a new one on a 5 year old house. 

 

Edited by Hank Kingsley

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