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If you think we have problems...


sushihorn

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...just look at Germany.  The two parties that have dominated the country since WW2 got hammered in a regional election this weekend.

https://global.handelsblatt.com/politics/merkel-cdu-losses-hesse-election-germany-976187

Merkel's CDU is still the largest party in Hesse at 27.4% but they lost almost 11 points of support.  That largely went to AfD and the Free Democrat (free market) party.  The Social Democrats also lost 11 points and are now under 20%, tied with the Greens who gained most of those votes. AfD is going to have 15% of the seats in the equivalent of the state legislature.

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5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I still think Germany is in better shape right now than the U.S. as far as political leadership goes.

We have nothing like AfD in the US.  Much less such a party that can gain double digit support and rising.

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3 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

We have nothing like AfD in the US.  Much less such a party that can gain double digit support and rising.

Donald Trump is the President and his party controls everything. 

AfD could be literal Nazis with 15% and I’d still say Germany is in better shape politically. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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8 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

We have nothing like AfD in the US.  Much less such a party that can gain double digit support and rising.

I just looked at the wicki for Alternative for Germany (Deutschland), so I know just the bare minimum. What makes you so sure there is nothing like them in the US? Honest question.

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5 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I just looked at the wicki for Alternative for Germany (Deutschland), so I know just the bare minimum. What makes you so sure there is nothing like them in the US? Honest question.

The US has taken in nearly a million legal immigrants a year.  It's been doing so for decades with little controversy.  The fight in this country is over illegal immigration.  AfD opposes ALL immigration.  Germany is the financial hub of the EU.  Without German subsidies the Eurozone would have failed by 2012 and the EU would have collapsed in a way to make Brexit look like a pillow fight.  AfD opposes any repeat of supporting other EU members.

AfD nearly crossed the 5% threshold for Bundestag representation in the year they were formed.  They became a major force when Merkel let in large numbers of Arab refugees. They are now a huge force in the East and have double digit support in the West.  In fact they are a threat to take control in half the states in the East, where they have 20%+ support.  The closest analogy I can find in recent US politics would be the Dixiecrats but with much more serious implications because of the economic and monetary ties of the EU and Eurozone.

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11 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The Republican Party of Donald Trump is the party of white grievance, know-nothingism, and political violence.

That sounds a lot like an American version of the AfD. 

Yeah, but how does the AfD feel about Russia? 

 

17 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Thanks for responding, Sushi. It does look to me that a person could see similarities between AfD and the Trumpist Party.

It’s kinda like the Tea Party/Alt-Right of Germany.  

The party of “NO”

They dont have a Trump yet to lead it tho.

 

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1 hour ago, Fozzz said:

Brazil elected a fascist today. One supported by the WSJ editorial board. 

Yeah, Brazil may legit get a lot more violent as hell in the next few years if Bolsonaro is serious about relaxing gun laws. At least we now have the left equivalent argument of "But look at Venezuela REEE!"

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43 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

The US has taken in nearly a million legal immigrants a year.  It's been doing so for decades with little controversy.  The fight in this country is over illegal immigration.  AfD opposes ALL immigration.  Germany is the financial hub of the EU.  Without German subsidies the Eurozone would have failed by 2012 and the EU would have collapsed in a way to make Brexit look like a pillow fight.  AfD opposes any repeat of supporting other EU members.

AfD nearly crossed the 5% threshold for Bundestag representation in the year they were formed.  They became a major force when Merkel let in large numbers of Arab refugees. They are now a huge force in the East and have double digit support in the West.  In fact they are a threat to take control in half the states in the East, where they have 20%+ support.  The closest analogy I can find in recent US politics would be the Dixiecrats but with much more serious implications because of the economic and monetary ties of the EU and Eurozone.

Trump and co proposed a reduction in legal immigration as well. The illegal immigration issue is just a first step towards stopping all immigration.

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46 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

The US has taken in nearly a million legal immigrants a year.  It's been doing so for decades with little controversy.  The fight in this country is over illegal immigration.  AfD opposes ALL immigration.  Germany is the financial hub of the EU.  Without German subsidies the Eurozone would have failed by 2012 and the EU would have collapsed in a way to make Brexit look like a pillow fight.  AfD opposes any repeat of supporting other EU members.

AfD nearly crossed the 5% threshold for Bundestag representation in the year they were formed.  They became a major force when Merkel let in large numbers of Arab refugees. They are now a huge force in the East and have double digit support in the West.  In fact they are a threat to take control in half the states in the East, where they have 20%+ support.  The closest analogy I can find in recent US politics would be the Dixiecrats but with much more serious implications because of the economic and monetary ties of the EU and Eurozone.

...the GOP is trying to cut the number of legal immigrants we take each year in half. And if they succeed, they’re gonna keep trying to cut that number until it’s zero. Hell, the fucking caravan is about people trying to get here legally and it’s led to mass hysteria on the right.  The idea that the immigration debate is only about illegal immigration is 100% bullshit and anyone who continues to spout that shit is an idiot or a liar.

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A little hyperbole is fine.  But how do you expect to win if you refuse to actually analyze the opponent and substitute a caricature instead?  That kind of talks turns out the base but the contempt drives White and male voters away.  Men are half the electorate and whites are over 70%.  Did anyone notice that 1 in 8 Black men voted for Trump in 2016?  Has anyone considered the possibility that Kanye might be part of something larger?

Sun Tzu said "Know your enemy and yourself and in a hundred battles you need not fear the outcome."  Neither party seems to be doing a good job of analyzing the other or itself right now.

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The only thing Kanye is representative of is bipolar billionaires currently off their meds.

The ramblings of an admitted manic depressive one perecenter who lives a reality TV life have precisely zero relevance to real people and zero predictive power.

Find a better Toby for your “Maybe Black People Secretly Love Trump” hypothesis.

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1 hour ago, sushihorn said:

The US has taken in nearly a million legal immigrants a year.  It's been doing so for decades with little controversy.  The fight in this country is over illegal immigration.  AfD opposes ALL immigration.  Germany is the financial hub of the EU.  Without German subsidies the Eurozone would have failed by 2012 and the EU would have collapsed in a way to make Brexit look like a pillow fight.  AfD opposes any repeat of supporting other EU members.

AfD nearly crossed the 5% threshold for Bundestag representation in the year they were formed.  They became a major force when Merkel let in large numbers of Arab refugees. They are now a huge force in the East and have double digit support in the West.  In fact they are a threat to take control in half the states in the East, where they have 20%+ support.  The closest analogy I can find in recent US politics would be the Dixiecrats but with much more serious implications because of the economic and monetary ties of the EU and Eurozone.

Can you name one particular way in which immigration has negatively impacted your life?

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11 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

Is Merkel going to have to form a coalition with AfD? That's what it feels like.

She'll do whatever she has to in order to hold on to power.  She already has her Grand Coalition with the Social Democrats and it's killing both parties.  In the unlikely even that AfD can top 20% nationally I wouldn't bet against Merkel working with them.  Politicans' promises are worth their weight in gold.

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28 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

A little hyperbole is fine.  But how do you expect to win if you refuse to actually analyze the opponent and substitute a caricature instead?  That kind of talks turns out the base but the contempt drives White and male voters away.  Men are half the electorate and whites are over 70%.  Did anyone notice that 1 in 8 Black men voted for Trump in 2016?  Has anyone considered the possibility that Kanye might be part of something larger?

Sun Tzu said "Know your enemy and yourself and in a hundred battles you need not fear the outcome."  Neither party seems to be doing a good job of analyzing the other or itself right now.

Way to bring the new to the unwashed, sushihorn. Yeesh.

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3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Exactly. People who continue to make excuses for the Republican Party aren't paying attention.

It's wretched hive of scum and villainy.

There are definitely some who deserve to have their arms cut off with a light saber.

Edit: don't ban me bro.  it's just a movie reference.

Edited by Biff Tannen
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3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Exactly. People who continue to make excuses for the Republican Party aren't paying attention.

It's wretched hive of scum and villainy.

It amazes me people think we’re just supposed to pretend Trump is a normal Republican President.

No, he’s fucking not normal and I will never normalize him.  

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Is it hyperbole though? We have bombs being sent to the opposition, political and racial murders, and a president who if not encourages it at the very least dog whistles to it?

At least we aren’t X country doesn’t inspire much sympathy or is a very low threshold from a guy who used to post RT news like it wasn’t anti-western proganda. 

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1 hour ago, gsoda3 said:

Is Merkel going to have to form a coalition with AfD? That's what it feels like.

This was a statewide race, not a nationwide parliamentary election. Within Hesse, the current coalition is CDU-Green, which will remain since the Greens picked up just enough seats to maintain the majority despite CDU losses. Bavaria is also CDU-Green.

The trends country-wide are definitely more troubling. The Greens aren't popular everywhere, so if the SPD were to lose too many seats in the Bundestag, those seats would be replaced by a combination of Green, Left, and AfD, the latter two of which are more popular in the former East German states. It would be the CDU attempting to put something together out of a bunch of scraps. I don't know if the German system allows for a three-party coalition.

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Yeah, I was just coming here to post that news:

Quote

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Monday she is ready to hand over the leadership of her Christian Democratic Union (CDU) later this year, according to multiple media reports, offering the clearest indication to date that her time at the helm of Europe’s largest economy is running out.

Merkel has been CDU chairwoman since 2000 and while her departure from the party post would not automatically result in her stepping down as German chancellor, the move is an acknowledgment of her increasingly vulnerable position. 

Merkel herself has said in the past that the chancellor should also be the leader of the ruling party. But according to German public radio, Merkel wants to stay on even after handing over the party leadership.

The chancellor was expected to confirm her decision publicly on Monday afternoon.

...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/german-chancellor-angela-merkel-ready-to-step-down-from-party-leadership/2018/10/29/4bbf67da-db60-11e8-b3f0-62607289efee_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.9725aacfc405

So, she sees the writing on the wall for her party, but wants to hold on to her office.

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9 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Translation:  I've pissed off a majority of my fellow country men with my misplaced German guilt syndrome.

Really?!? That’s your take?  She was re-elected just last year.  She’ll have been Chancellor of Germany for almost a generation by the time she steps down.  

It’s not as long as Otto von Bismarck, but it’s close. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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12 hours ago, sushihorn said:

A little hyperbole is fine.  But how do you expect to win if you refuse to actually analyze the opponent and substitute a caricature instead?  That kind of talks turns out the base but the contempt drives White and male voters away.  Men are half the electorate and whites are over 70%.  Did anyone notice that 1 in 8 Black men voted for Trump in 2016?  Has anyone considered the possibility that Kanye might be part of something larger?

Sun Tzu said "Know your enemy and yourself and in a hundred battles you need not fear the outcome."  Neither party seems to be doing a good job of analyzing the other or itself right now.

Ah, yes, the truly enlightened look at everything that happened last week and realize that it's those who oppose Trump who are being irrational and unfairly dismissive of their political opponents. Jesus fucking christ. The President of the United States of America is radicalizing white supremacists into shooting up synagogues and grocery stores (after failing to break into a black church) but it's Dems who are the problem. Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.

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Our Germans are better than their Germans.

Speaking of Germans and ersatz Germans, me and the wife went to see  the Vienna Boys Choir last night.  They were fucking awesome.  We all need to go out and make a point of spending some time away from the internets and seeing a few things over the next few months that enlighten us to we can aspire to if we put away the rancor.

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