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Posted
She's only gonna name dead people

she’s going to name Clinton n the Dems, get a pardon and flee to Israel and be canonized as the Jewish and/or Hindu god of child sex trafficking and genocide giving her a 24/7 Mossad security detail and ironically a private island where she can spend the rest of her life managing her child sex trafficking empire and laughing at us goys.
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Posted

It just seems a little odd that facing the prospect of dying in prison after her arrest, Maxwell never said “I can give you former President Trump banging underage girls.”
 

And if she did offer that up trying to strike a deal, the prosecutors said “wait, the guy who tried to overthrow the government and remain in power and is still claiming he won the election in courts all over the country and pisses all over American democracy? We’ll pass. You’re more important to us Maxwell.”

If your response is “they couldn’t make that deal with her because Trump would then squeal on Clinton and all the rich and powerful Democrats involved in the pedophilia ring and Maxwell knew that too”, then you might need to scoot your chair on over to the QAnon side of the room. 

 

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Posted

Or, hear me out, a desperate child trafficker who has already proven to be an unreliable narrator might not be the best source to underpin what would be the biggest political scandal in our nation’s history.

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Posted
It just seems a little odd that facing the prospect of dying in prison after her arrest, Maxwell never said “I can give you former President Trump banging underage girls.”


Maybe she was concerned that saying anything at all would result in her suicide.
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Posted
1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

This is a fake. 

 

One of the more dangerous aspects of AI that I hadn't anticipated. It further erodes trust in common reality. Not crazy about the AI. At all.

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Posted
58 minutes ago, gernblansten said:

It just seems a little odd that facing the prospect of dying in prison after her arrest, Maxwell never said “I can give you former President Trump banging underage girls.”
 

And if she did offer that up trying to strike a deal, the prosecutors said “wait, the guy who tried to overthrow the government and remain in power and is still claiming he won the election in courts all over the country and pisses all over American democracy? We’ll pass. You’re more important to us Maxwell.”

If your response is “they couldn’t make that deal with her because Trump would then squeal on Clinton and all the rich and powerful Democrats involved in the pedophilia ring and Maxwell knew that too”, then you might need to scoot your chair on over to the QAnon side of the room. 

 

Certainly not unreasonable in a world where most of the players are earnest and there is no party devoted to changing the republic to authoritarianism.

She doesn't know who she's talking to or what their interests are. It would not surprise me if the Trumpists in law enforcement or prosecution or the penal system dropped some pretty dire hints. Maybe the only carrot to hang from the big stick is "be patient. Maybe something good will happen. And be quiet."

And here we are.

Or, more succinctly:

14 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

 


Maybe she was concerned that saying anything at all would result in her suicide.

 

 

Posted
37 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Or, hear me out, a desperate child trafficker who has already proven to be an unreliable narrator might not be the best source to underpin what would be the biggest political scandal in our nation’s history.

If this is in response to my post, I agree completely and never indicated otherwise. 
 

One can believe she has truthful knowledge of Trump/Clinton banging kids, but it was never pursued because she’s untrustworthy. 
 

One can believe she has no such knowledge, but would be willing to say it to save herself. 
 

I don’t know why now anyone cares what she would say about “naming names” now. A lot of opining Trump will pardon her in exchange for her not giving evidence against him. Or, giving evidence against Democrats. If she had credible evidence against such people it would’ve been used long ago. 

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Posted
30 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

 


Maybe she was concerned that saying anything at all would result in her suicide.

 

Oh, so it’s true. High ranking democrats are satanist pedophiles who suitcases Epstein and since Trump is back in charge Maxwell is now safe from being suicided and can speak out.  

Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, UncleSonny said:

I don’t think this is the bombshell (that’s surely coming). This limited immunity reads like pretty normal procedure in situations like this, but I could be wrong. 

Edit to say, I guess if you are looking for fuckery here, does this immunity protect her to straight up lie and follow whatever script they gave her?

There's absolutely nothing normal about the interview and immunity she was granted. 

-she's a convicted sex trafficker and she's already been sentenced

-acceptance of proffers and grants of limited immunity are tools for law enforcement to make cooperators in a criminal case, typically so they can work their way up the food chain of criminality

-the Asst Attorney General who interviewed her was (maybe still is) Trump's attorney, so deeply conflicted

-just taking the interview - let alone granting her limited immunity (hugely damaging the possibility of additional prosecution for the crimes to which she admitted in the interview) - is highly unusual and extremely corrupt. They didn't even discuss it first with the women who were victimized by Maxwell.

 

Edited by Chopper
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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Chopper said:

There's absolutely nothing normal about the interview and immunity she was granted. 

-she's a convicted sex trafficker and she's already been sentenced

-acceptance of proffers and grants of limited immunity are tools for law enforcement to make cooperators in a criminal case, typically so they can work their way up the food chain of criminality

-the Asst Attorney General who interviewed her was (maybe still is) Trump's attorney, so deeply conflicted

-just taking the interview - let alone granting her limited immunity (hugely damaging the possibility of additional prosecution for the crimes to which she admitted in the interview) - is highly unusual and extremely corrupt. They didn't even discuss it first with the women who were victimized by Maxwell.

 

Well, broadly speaking, even convicted and incarcerated people are offered immunity from prosecution for other crimes, as well as other incentives, to provide evidence against others.  

But, as has been pointed out, she had the opportunity to give evidence a long time ago and presumably whatever kept her from doing so applies today as well.

But yeah, this ain't normal in any way, shape or form.

Edited by TwiceHorn
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, broadly speaking, even convicted and incarcerated people are offered immunity from prosecution for other crimes, as well as other incentives, to provide evidence against others.  

I guess your intent is to speak very broadly but I'm confused why you felt compelled. She was interviewed in order to assess her ability and willingness to eventually provide an alibi for Trump. End of.  (And yes I realize there's jailhouse snitches or circumstances where they want to bust someone higher up the food chain due to new evidence they've obtained but neither is at play here.)

Edited by Chopper
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Posted
Oh, so it’s true. High ranking democrats are satanist pedophiles who suitcases Epstein and since Trump is back in charge Maxwell is now safe from being suicided and can speak out.  

Well it seems pretty obvious that Maxwell is not in charge of her own situation at this point. It’s not like she has been peacefully locked away and then gradually became remorseful and decided on her own accord to open up to Oprah or 60 Minutes to clear her conscience.

Pretty sure this past week, she was told in no uncertain terms “start talking.” What she actually said, or the extent to which she was forced or not forced to say certain things, we will likely never know.

If she said anything incriminating against Trump, it’s almost a certainty we will not get the unadulterated version of that. You would have to be an idiot to think otherwise.

If she gave a testimony that absolves Trump, most reasonable people outside of the MAGA cult would always wonder the extent to which she was forced to do so.

Under normal circumstances, her testimony is not trustworthy. She was already charged with perjury twice. Under the current circumstances, anything she says is about as valid as anything Trump says, which is to say, likely a lie.
Posted
45 minutes ago, Chopper said:

I guess your intent is to speak very broadly but I'm confused why you felt compelled. She was interviewed in order to assess her ability and willingness to eventually provide an alibi for Trump. End of.  (And yes I realize there's jailhouse snitches or circumstances where they want to bust someone higher up the food chain due to new evidence they've obtained but neither is at play here.)

Just elaborating.  I think you're pretty much spot on.

It's pretty confusing what they think they're doing.  Whatever evidence she has should have already been part of the "Epstein Files," or, if it wasn't then ipso facto it isn't part of the Epstein files and isn't particularly credible anyway given her history and motivations.

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Posted

MAGA Won't Let Trump Off The Hook For The Epstein Files — And Psychologists Know Why

Spoiler

President Donald Trump ― a figure so immune to controversy, he’s earned the nickname “Teflon Don” ― may have finally met the one news story he can’t bluster his way out of. 

No matter how hard he tries to either ignore it or change the subject, the president’s links to convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein won’t stop following him — and even part of his conservative base is having trouble grappling with it.

According to a Fox News survey released Wednesday, only 13% of people polled think the government has been open and transparent about the Epstein case, while more than five times as many (67%) disagree, including 60% of Republicans and 56% of MAGA supporters. One voter in five says they haven’t been following the case.

Why can’t the president’s most ardent supporters let go of the Epstein files? Why is this breaking through when there have been countless controversies before, including dozens of women accusing Trump of sexual misconduct and his being found liable in court for sexual abuse in 2023?

Below, we ask psychologists and therapists what’s going through the minds of Trump’s MAGA followers.

 

A Little Background On The Epstein Files

 

A GOP insider told Politico Playbook this week that the president seems legitimately concerned about how he’ll be impacted by the controversy around his administration’s handling of the Epstein files.

According to the source, the president recently complained that he would be accused “of some funny business” in connection with the disgraced financier, who died in federal prison in 2019, a month after he was arrested on charges of sex trafficking minors. 

“They’re going to fuck me anyways,” Trump reportedly said, according to Playbook. 

“When we look at the MAGA hardcore, we typically see the pathological ‘othering’ of two specific classes of people: immigrants and ‘sex perverts.’”

- Steve K. D. Eichel, psychologist

The renewed interest in Epstein was promptedby a memo put out by Trump’s Justice Department and the FBI earlier this month stating that there was no evidence to suggest he was killed or that he held a client list to blackmail people.

Trump had previously promised to release files on Epstein as recently as last year. QAnonconspiracy theorists in his base wonder why his administration is now treating the Epstein files like a nonissue. (Followers of QAnon consider Epstein a key figure in a satanic cabal of pedophiles that includes the world’s most powerful people. Though Trump was friends with Epstein for years, he’s long been seen as the white-knight figure destined to defeat that cabal.)

As more details emerge about Trump’s friendship with Epstein ― last week, The Wall Street Journal released a report detailing an innuendo-laced birthday letter Trump gave to Epstein, and this week, it was reported that Attorney General Pam Bondi informed Trump in the spring that his name appeared in the Epstein files ― the president has implored his supporters and the press to just move on. 

 

Future President Donald Trump and his then-girlfriend (and future wife) Melania Knauss pose with financier (and future convicted sex offender) Jeffrey Epstein and British socialite Ghislaine Maxwell at Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate in February 2000.

Davidoff Studios Photography via Getty Images

Future President Donald Trump and his then-girlfriend (and future wife) Melania Knauss pose with financier (and future convicted sex offender) Jeffrey Epstein and British socialite Ghislaine Maxwell at Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate in February 2000.

“Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy’s been talked about for years,” Trump shot back at a reporter questioning the administration’s handling of the issue earlier this month. “Are people still talking about this guy? This creep? That is unbelievable.”

On Truth Social, the president called his base “stupid” and “foolish” for inquiring about Epstein’s sex trafficking investigation.

Team Trump and the president himself have tried to “flood the zone” on social media. But any story or Truth Social post they’ve thrown out to distract Americans from this latest controversy ― releasing thousands of files about civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr.’s assassination and a bizarre AI-generated videoof President Barack Obama being arrested and thrown in jail ― has failed to make a mark. 

Republicans, it seems, are struggling to get out from this news cycle because, for once, it’s their MAGA base that is leading the charge against Trump. (When you’ve lost the support of “QAnon shaman” Jake Chansley, you know you’ve got problems.)

 

A billboard in Times Square calls for the release of the Epstein files.

Adam Gray via Getty Images

A billboard in Times Square calls for the release of the Epstein files.

 

Trump is disappointing some who saw him as a crusader against sexual deviancy.

 

As many have noted ― Trump included, a number of times ― no rules apply to him in Trump world. Though he’s bragged about being able to “grab [women] by the pussy” and been accused of sexual misconduct numerous times, for many in the MAGA movement, Trump is still seen as the avenger of what they deem sex deviancy: gay people, trans people, celebrities and elites they claim are involved in pedophilia rings. 

“When we look at the MAGA hardcore, we typically see the pathological ‘othering’ of two specific classes of people: immigrants and ‘sex perverts,’” said Steve K. D. Eichel, a psychologist who studies cults and other cultic relationships.

Eichel believes the latter category is mostly the result of a moral panic that is also a projection of significant psychosexual confusion and repression on the part of hyper-religious MAGAs.

“Research has shown that homophobes tend to see far more gay people than is statistically valid, just as antisemites see far more Jews than actually exist,” he said.

Similarly, Eichel said, sex-obsessed MAGAs see far more sexual and gender “perverts” and “perversions” than actually exist and believe Trump is a warrior against this tide. For them, hostile masculinity and sexual violence don’t count as sexual perversion.

“Drag shows are repulsive but ‘grabbing them by the pussy’ is OK and in the MAGA manosphere, actually welcomed by women,” Eichel said.

Trump’s hesitation to release the Epstein files could be a breaking point for some, but other MAGA faithful have let it slide. 

“It’s far too dissonant for some in MAGA to reconcile, so they’ll deny reality ― Trump will continue to be seen as an innocent victim of liberal, Democratic misinformation ― while others will feel directly and personally betrayed and, for now, become enraged,” he said.

 

MAGA's inability to let the Epstein files go is "sunk cost fallacy meets betrayal," said Natalie Feinblatt, a psychologist who specializes in cult recovery.

ANDREW CABALLERO-REYNOLDS via Getty Images

MAGA's inability to let the Epstein files go is "sunk cost fallacy meets betrayal," said Natalie Feinblatt, a psychologist who specializes in cult recovery.

 

People really want to punish the elites. 

 

As Josh Marshall noted this week in a Talking Points Memo piece, one of the most revealing aspects of MAGA’s obsession with the Epstein files is the focus on the punishment of the “elites” who are supposedly implicated in them. Marshall argued that for Trump supporters, Pizzagate, QAnon and the Epstein case are less about tracking down pedophiles and more about punishing liberal elites.

Widening the scope, though, there’s been a steady drumbeat against the billionaire class since COVID, when differences in experiences based on social class and income were never more obvious, said Manahil Riaz, a therapist in Houston. (Think of “eat the rich” and the general scorn directed at the hyper-wealthy.) 

“Since the pandemic, people have started to question class privilege and are less inclined to idealize billionaires, CEOs or political elites,” Riaz told HuffPost.

“There’s a growing awareness that power doesn’t equal virtue, and that often, those in power use it to harm rather than help,” she added. “The Epstein case symbolizes that betrayal, and for many, it’s a line that can’t be morally overlooked — regardless of political affiliation.”

 

A protester holds a photo of convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump in Los Angeles.

The Washington Post via Getty Images

A protester holds a photo of convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump in Los Angeles.

 

They’ve invested too much in Epstein-related conspiracy theories to let this one go.

 

There’s some sunk cost fallacy going on here, too: QAnon believers have invested so much time and energy into the Epstein files, they’re not going to let go now.

“It’s sunk cost fallacy meets betrayal,” said Natalie Feinblatt, a psychologist who specializes in cult recovery. 

“People who’ve poured years of belief, energy and identity into the MAGA and Q world are facing a painful internal contradiction: ‘I’ve given everything to this cause ... how could it betray me?’” she said. “These feelings are especially potent when the betrayal comes from someone you viewed as a savior.”

 

"People who’ve poured years of belief, energy, and identity into the MAGA and Q world are facing a painful internal contradiction," said Natalie Feinblatt, a psychologist who specializes in cult recovery.

Anna Moneymaker via Getty Images

"People who’ve poured years of belief, energy, and identity into the MAGA and Q world are facing a painful internal contradiction," said Natalie Feinblatt, a psychologist who specializes in cult recovery.

 

Child abuse is an ethical issue that goes beyond Democrats versus Republicans. 

 

Given the gravity of Epstein’s alleged crimes ― child trafficking, paying girls as young as 14 for sex — there truly is a moral dimension to some people’s need for answers on the case.

“What makes this issue resonate so strongly, even across political lines, is that it’s nearly impossible to ignore,” Riaz said. “There’s overwhelming evidence that powerful individuals were involved and that a system allowed this exploitation to go unchecked for years.”

“Most people care deeply about children. We were all children once, and we instinctively protect those who are innocent and defenseless,” Riaz added. “That shared humanity makes this issue hit close to home for just about everyone.”

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For many people ― even ardent Trump supporters ― this has forced a reckoning. That’s especially true for those who’ve experienced sexual abuse themselves, said Bandy X. Lee, a forensic psychiatrist and editor of “The Much More Dangerous Case of Donald Trump: 50 Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts Warn Anew.”

They believed Trump when he promised to expose elite networks of exploitation of power, Lee said. “Trump’s rise to power, exploiting this hidden epidemic, has the potential to be his undoing.” 

“His failure to release the files shatters the trust and pierces through the dynamic of ‘identification with the aggressor,’” she explained. “Like the awakening of a cult or a gang member, this may serve as a crack in the authoritarian bond.”

 

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Posted

Don’t let up, Dems:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-democrats-seek-access-to-jeffrey-epstein-birthday-book-trump/

House Democrats are seeking a copy of Jeffrey Epstein's alleged 2003 "birthday book" that is said to include a "bawdy" letter signed by President Trump to the convicted sex offender.

In a letter to the representatives of Epstein's estate on Friday, Rep. Ro Khanna and House Oversight Ranking Democrat Rep. Robert Garcia, both of California, said the request comes amid Mr. Trump's "desperate attempts to quell public interest in the release of files" related to the disgraced financier.

"Recent public reporting indicates that the Estate of Jeffrey Epstein is in possession of a document commonly referred to as 'the birthday book,' compiled by Ghislaine Maxwell in 2003 in celebration of Mr. Epstein's 50th birthday, which has clear relevance to this case," they wrote in a letter.

Posted

I'm not sure what the point is. Do they think there is another part of that book where Trump and Epstein laugh about raping underage girls together? 

Posted
Just now, Red Five said:

I'm not sure what the point is. Do they think there is another part of that book where Trump and Epstein laugh about raping underage girls together? 

fingerprint or dna test it? his base can deny it all they want, but a court won't (one fucking hopes)

Posted
6 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

fingerprint or dna test it? his base can deny it all they want, but a court won't (one fucking hopes)

If it's for "See! They were friends. Look how creepy this looks" purposes I'm going to lose my mind.

Posted
23 minutes ago, Red Five said:

If it's for "See! They were friends. Look how creepy this looks" purposes I'm going to lose my mind.

I think it goes beyond showing they were friends, but friends that would never spill their "secret".  There's lots of things Trump disputes in the media, but this is the one Epstein related claim he's suing over. 

Posted
2 hours ago, The Dog said:

MAGA Won't Let Trump Off The Hook For The Epstein Files — And Psychologists Know Why

  Reveal hidden contents

 

President Donald Trump ― a figure so immune to controversy, he’s earned the nickname “Teflon Don” ― may have finally met the one news story he can’t bluster his way out of. 

No matter how hard he tries to either ignore it or change the subject, the president’s links to convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein won’t stop following him — and even part of his conservative base is having trouble grappling with it.

According to a Fox News survey released Wednesday, only 13% of people polled think the government has been open and transparent about the Epstein case, while more than five times as many (67%) disagree, including 60% of Republicans and 56% of MAGA supporters. One voter in five says they haven’t been following the case.

Why can’t the president’s most ardent supporters let go of the Epstein files? Why is this breaking through when there have been countless controversies before, including dozens of women accusing Trump of sexual misconduct and his being found liable in court for sexual abuse in 2023?

Below, we ask psychologists and therapists what’s going through the minds of Trump’s MAGA followers.

 

A Little Background On The Epstein Files

 

A GOP insider told Politico Playbook this week that the president seems legitimately concerned about how he’ll be impacted by the controversy around his administration’s handling of the Epstein files.

According to the source, the president recently complained that he would be accused “of some funny business” in connection with the disgraced financier, who died in federal prison in 2019, a month after he was arrested on charges of sex trafficking minors. 

“They’re going to fuck me anyways,” Trump reportedly said, according to Playbook. 

“When we look at the MAGA hardcore, we typically see the pathological ‘othering’ of two specific classes of people: immigrants and ‘sex perverts.’”

- Steve K. D. Eichel, psychologist

The renewed interest in Epstein was promptedby a memo put out by Trump’s Justice Department and the FBI earlier this month stating that there was no evidence to suggest he was killed or that he held a client list to blackmail people.

Trump had previously promised to release files on Epstein as recently as last year. QAnonconspiracy theorists in his base wonder why his administration is now treating the Epstein files like a nonissue. (Followers of QAnon consider Epstein a key figure in a satanic cabal of pedophiles that includes the world’s most powerful people. Though Trump was friends with Epstein for years, he’s long been seen as the white-knight figure destined to defeat that cabal.)

As more details emerge about Trump’s friendship with Epstein ― last week, The Wall Street Journal released a report detailing an innuendo-laced birthday letter Trump gave to Epstein, and this week, it was reported that Attorney General Pam Bondi informed Trump in the spring that his name appeared in the Epstein files ― the president has implored his supporters and the press to just move on. 

 

Future President Donald Trump and his then-girlfriend (and future wife) Melania Knauss pose with financier (and future convicted sex offender) Jeffrey Epstein and British socialite Ghislaine Maxwell at Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate in February 2000.

Davidoff Studios Photography via Getty Images

Future President Donald Trump and his then-girlfriend (and future wife) Melania Knauss pose with financier (and future convicted sex offender) Jeffrey Epstein and British socialite Ghislaine Maxwell at Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate in February 2000.

“Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy’s been talked about for years,” Trump shot back at a reporter questioning the administration’s handling of the issue earlier this month. “Are people still talking about this guy? This creep? That is unbelievable.”

On Truth Social, the president called his base “stupid” and “foolish” for inquiring about Epstein’s sex trafficking investigation.

Team Trump and the president himself have tried to “flood the zone” on social media. But any story or Truth Social post they’ve thrown out to distract Americans from this latest controversy ― releasing thousands of files about civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr.’s assassination and a bizarre AI-generated videoof President Barack Obama being arrested and thrown in jail ― has failed to make a mark. 

Republicans, it seems, are struggling to get out from this news cycle because, for once, it’s their MAGA base that is leading the charge against Trump. (When you’ve lost the support of “QAnon shaman” Jake Chansley, you know you’ve got problems.)

 

A billboard in Times Square calls for the release of the Epstein files.

Adam Gray via Getty Images

A billboard in Times Square calls for the release of the Epstein files.

 

Trump is disappointing some who saw him as a crusader against sexual deviancy.

 

As many have noted ― Trump included, a number of times ― no rules apply to him in Trump world. Though he’s bragged about being able to “grab [women] by the pussy” and been accused of sexual misconduct numerous times, for many in the MAGA movement, Trump is still seen as the avenger of what they deem sex deviancy: gay people, trans people, celebrities and elites they claim are involved in pedophilia rings. 

“When we look at the MAGA hardcore, we typically see the pathological ‘othering’ of two specific classes of people: immigrants and ‘sex perverts,’” said Steve K. D. Eichel, a psychologist who studies cults and other cultic relationships.

Eichel believes the latter category is mostly the result of a moral panic that is also a projection of significant psychosexual confusion and repression on the part of hyper-religious MAGAs.

“Research has shown that homophobes tend to see far more gay people than is statistically valid, just as antisemites see far more Jews than actually exist,” he said.

Similarly, Eichel said, sex-obsessed MAGAs see far more sexual and gender “perverts” and “perversions” than actually exist and believe Trump is a warrior against this tide. For them, hostile masculinity and sexual violence don’t count as sexual perversion.

“Drag shows are repulsive but ‘grabbing them by the pussy’ is OK and in the MAGA manosphere, actually welcomed by women,” Eichel said.

Trump’s hesitation to release the Epstein files could be a breaking point for some, but other MAGA faithful have let it slide. 

“It’s far too dissonant for some in MAGA to reconcile, so they’ll deny reality ― Trump will continue to be seen as an innocent victim of liberal, Democratic misinformation ― while others will feel directly and personally betrayed and, for now, become enraged,” he said.

 

MAGA's inability to let the Epstein files go is "sunk cost fallacy meets betrayal," said Natalie Feinblatt, a psychologist who specializes in cult recovery.

ANDREW CABALLERO-REYNOLDS via Getty Images

MAGA's inability to let the Epstein files go is "sunk cost fallacy meets betrayal," said Natalie Feinblatt, a psychologist who specializes in cult recovery.

 

People really want to punish the elites. 

 

As Josh Marshall noted this week in a Talking Points Memo piece, one of the most revealing aspects of MAGA’s obsession with the Epstein files is the focus on the punishment of the “elites” who are supposedly implicated in them. Marshall argued that for Trump supporters, Pizzagate, QAnon and the Epstein case are less about tracking down pedophiles and more about punishing liberal elites.

Widening the scope, though, there’s been a steady drumbeat against the billionaire class since COVID, when differences in experiences based on social class and income were never more obvious, said Manahil Riaz, a therapist in Houston. (Think of “eat the rich” and the general scorn directed at the hyper-wealthy.) 

“Since the pandemic, people have started to question class privilege and are less inclined to idealize billionaires, CEOs or political elites,” Riaz told HuffPost.

“There’s a growing awareness that power doesn’t equal virtue, and that often, those in power use it to harm rather than help,” she added. “The Epstein case symbolizes that betrayal, and for many, it’s a line that can’t be morally overlooked — regardless of political affiliation.”

 

A protester holds a photo of convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump in Los Angeles.

The Washington Post via Getty Images

A protester holds a photo of convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump in Los Angeles.

 

They’ve invested too much in Epstein-related conspiracy theories to let this one go.

 

There’s some sunk cost fallacy going on here, too: QAnon believers have invested so much time and energy into the Epstein files, they’re not going to let go now.

“It’s sunk cost fallacy meets betrayal,” said Natalie Feinblatt, a psychologist who specializes in cult recovery. 

“People who’ve poured years of belief, energy and identity into the MAGA and Q world are facing a painful internal contradiction: ‘I’ve given everything to this cause ... how could it betray me?’” she said. “These feelings are especially potent when the betrayal comes from someone you viewed as a savior.”

 

"People who’ve poured years of belief, energy, and identity into the MAGA and Q world are facing a painful internal contradiction," said Natalie Feinblatt, a psychologist who specializes in cult recovery.

Anna Moneymaker via Getty Images

"People who’ve poured years of belief, energy, and identity into the MAGA and Q world are facing a painful internal contradiction," said Natalie Feinblatt, a psychologist who specializes in cult recovery.

 

Child abuse is an ethical issue that goes beyond Democrats versus Republicans. 

 

Given the gravity of Epstein’s alleged crimes ― child trafficking, paying girls as young as 14 for sex — there truly is a moral dimension to some people’s need for answers on the case.

“What makes this issue resonate so strongly, even across political lines, is that it’s nearly impossible to ignore,” Riaz said. “There’s overwhelming evidence that powerful individuals were involved and that a system allowed this exploitation to go unchecked for years.”

“Most people care deeply about children. We were all children once, and we instinctively protect those who are innocent and defenseless,” Riaz added. “That shared humanity makes this issue hit close to home for just about everyone.”

20 Years OfFreeJournalism

For two decades, HuffPost has been fearless, unflinching, and relentless in pursuit of the truth. Support our mission to keep us around for the next 20 — we can't do this without you.

Support HuffPost

Already contributed? Log in to hide these messages.

For many people ― even ardent Trump supporters ― this has forced a reckoning. That’s especially true for those who’ve experienced sexual abuse themselves, said Bandy X. Lee, a forensic psychiatrist and editor of “The Much More Dangerous Case of Donald Trump: 50 Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts Warn Anew.”

They believed Trump when he promised to expose elite networks of exploitation of power, Lee said. “Trump’s rise to power, exploiting this hidden epidemic, has the potential to be his undoing.” 

“His failure to release the files shatters the trust and pierces through the dynamic of ‘identification with the aggressor,’” she explained. “Like the awakening of a cult or a gang member, this may serve as a crack in the authoritarian bond.”

 

All these educated journalists and psychologists with such keen insight into the inner workings of the MAGA psyche and what is or isn't a bridge too far.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Satchel said:

Don’t let up, Dems:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-democrats-seek-access-to-jeffrey-epstein-birthday-book-trump/

 

House Democrats are seeking a copy of Jeffrey Epstein's alleged 2003 "birthday book" that is said to include a "bawdy" letter signed by President Trump to the convicted sex offender.

In a letter to the representatives of Epstein's estate on Friday, Rep. Ro Khanna and House Oversight Ranking Democrat Rep. Robert Garcia, both of California, said the request comes amid Mr. Trump's "desperate attempts to quell public interest in the release of files" related to the disgraced financier.

"Recent public reporting indicates that the Estate of Jeffrey Epstein is in possession of a document commonly referred to as 'the birthday book,' compiled by Ghislaine Maxwell in 2003 in celebration of Mr. Epstein's 50th birthday, which has clear relevance to this case," they wrote in a letter.

Can't the estate just ignore them?

Posted
38 minutes ago, Red Five said:

If it's for "See! They were friends. Look how creepy this looks" purposes I'm going to lose my mind.

Are you familiar with the content of the letter including the drawing? Are you aware it would become part of a collection of Trump statements and images about Epstein including:

image.thumb.png.dffdf53d0238f9bfea4dda1ed21db160.png

Posted
5 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Are you familiar with the content of the letter including the drawing? Are you aware it would become part of a collection of Trump statements and images about Epstein including:

image.thumb.png.dffdf53d0238f9bfea4dda1ed21db160.png

I feel like you're making my point for me. They were friends for years. Everyone knows this and no one disputes it. Well I guess Trump might, but who knows what he's saying or disputing on any given day. 

And yeah, we already know exactly what is in the letter and the drawing. 



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