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Fire Shaka Smart

smokebomb

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Red Five
Red Five

That is tough to accomplish in four years, but I wouldn't put it past Shaka.

immamac
immamac
Camelback80
Camelback80

Shaka should definitely get at least one more year. Many of his recruits will finally be upperclassmen by then, and he'll have his best shot of any year he's been here. Fans need to realize 2 maj

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ztejas

ztejas 43190

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

There are a few programs in each of the major conferences where winning a title is plausibly achievable within a short period of time. Texas is one of those programs. We have a huge budget, a major brand, we've recruited well for two straight decades now, and we have an awesome AD who has more than proven himself. Acknowledging that a title could be won at Texas doesn't mean that we're on the level of Kentucky, Kansas, and Duke, it simply means that we are in a group with those teams, along with programs like OU, Florida, Michigan, Gonzaga, et al. I don't think a body out there seriously doubts that any one of these programs could win a title with the right coach. 

Sorry - you think Texas is in the same tier as Florida, Michigan and Gonzaga when it comes to hoops? 

Texas doesn't even have the program history OU does. 

I respect that you really really love Texas basketball but the culture just isn't there yet for Texas to be a national contender anytime soon. 

One of the greatest 20 players to ever pick up a basketball played at Texas and got bounced in the 2nd round.

Basketball is a fickle mistress. It isn't just money and brand name and arena seats. You can't buy national titles in basketball the way you seem to think.

Shit, even Calipari has done it just once and that was on the back of one of the greatest college players ever. 

Culture, culture, culture. Barnes got damn close a few times and built the culture to a respectable degree. Unfortunately the past 5-6 years have basically destroyed that.

Texas will need a great coach that wins a lot right off the bat to get culture and fan support where it needs to be for UT to be a national contender. 

On the flip side - you look at football - Texas is never more than a good coach and a few recruiting classes from being a perennial top 5 power.

When people say that Texas is a football school it is for a reason. 

I'd love to see UT win the dance. It just seems like a little bit of a pipe dream right now. There is a lot of muck to clean up before sweet sixteens and elite eights are expected again the way that Barnes let the fanbase grow accustomed to.

And before I get Derka'd I'm saying all of this with hope for a brighter future. Just want to offer a more objective take.

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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"The culture just isnt there for Texas to be a national contender any time soon". What?! The program has already been a national contender for the better part of an entire decade during the aughts, how on earth can you can come to this conclusion when we've already been a national contender is baffling.

also, you seem to be bending over backwards to avoid understanding the really obvious and not-that-controversial point that I'm making. Texas, OU, Michigan, Florida, and so on and so forth- they are giants in college athletics who will always be brand names. a good coach can go to these schools and win a national title. the athletic departments have huge budgets, the schools have large endorsement deals, the always get tons of national exposure, etc. it's not the same as going to vanderbilt, iowa state, kansas state, georgia tech, etc. this is not breaking news, nor is it even up for debate. the idea that you can't win a title at Texas is absurd. Hell, probably 20% of our teams over the last 20 years could have won a title with a Bill Self, Tom Izzo, Roy Williams, John Beilein, Jay Wright type coach. 

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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9 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Oh and I'm ignoring you putting Texas with Kansas, Kentucky and Duke shooty hoops wise. That is a borderline aggy statement.

you're ignoring something you've just imagined in your own mind. i explicitly said that Texas was *not* their equals, but don't let that stop you from dreaming some shit up. 

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jinx

jinx 2635

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Is 10-7 good?   I have officially reached apathy.  I watched every game until VCU, now I can't tell you who we play next and don't care.  I turned on the KU game because it was on and we were close, but I was confident we would play like a coach less team down the stretch and lose.  

I hate it because the players are like able and seem to have talent.  But I have lost all hope that Shaka will ever win a NCAA tourney game here.  He might not even make another tournament 

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Machinator

Machinator 32097

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Just now, Fozzz said:

This sounds like some coach boom shit. 

No, you sound like an A&M fan. They played better than most expected, but the end result was a loss.

A loss is not a good result. A close loss is a better result than a blowout, but it's not a good one. It's not going to help us make the tournament.

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

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Posted
1 minute ago, Machinator said:

No, you sound like an A&M fan. They played better than most expected, but the end result was a loss.

A loss is not a good result. A close loss is a better result than a blowout, but it's not a good one. It's not going to help us make the tournament.

No, actually my friend, you’re aggy. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43190

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19 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

you're ignoring something you've just imagined in your own mind. i explicitly said that Texas was *not* their equals, but don't let that stop you from dreaming some shit up. 

You said it doesn't make Texas those teams, but that Texas is in a group with those teams. Texas isnt. Don't change words now. 

 

20 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

The program has already been a national contender for the better part of an entire decade during the aughts, how on earth can you can come to this conclusion when we've already been a national contender is baffling.

This is a joke. Texas made one Final Four 15 years ago. That does not make it a regular national contender under Barnes.

And you are ignoring my point. Brand name and money does not get you as far in basketball as it does football. So we can debate the nuances between what it takes to win a national title in basketball and what it takes in football, but do not act like it is the same thing.

You need about 10 good players, a great coach and a great fanbase to have a chance at a title in basketball.

You need about 40 good players, a good to great coach and thousands of dollars and fans to win a title in football.

Just look at the programs that have won nattys in both sports in the past 20 years. The list couldn't be more different.

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dcar00

dcar00 14002

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Posted
2 minutes ago, CurlyDumps said:

What was that embarrasing shit about Shaka making players come to shootaraound with their dukes up?  Fucking comical.  Shaka’s tenure is a Mike Schur sitcom.

the "+" sign, the round card, dukes up, slap the floor, seal training, its all so...what is the phrase?  "amateur hour"

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Goo Punch

Goo Punch 4275

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no you're right @ztejas, it's impossible for anyone to win a title at Texas "because the culture isn't there". Which means that Texas will literally never win a title since you can't get the culture there without winning it all first. That's fucking brilliant. The idea that it's impossible to win a title at Texas is too fucking stupid for me to argue over. You can believe whatever you want. 

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Goodman

Goodman 3273

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3 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I thought the guy did a pretty good job of getting to the dance fairly regularly at a football dominant school, that's an achievement.  I'd be pretty happy if my team made it to the dance consistently ,and got to at least the second weekend a good portion of that time, and made the sweet 16 a few of those years.  

National championships are great but unless you're a basketball centric school you're just not getting that many of those. Florida pulled it off with Billie Donovan, that was quite the achievement.

 

He was great but lost his way, not talking about the other woman we had to bury. After that he was born again, just not on the court. He got a boost of energy at a new school. Powers led us to a terrible AD hire which led us into an inexplicable contract. I trust CDC to hire well when that time comes.

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dcar00

dcar00 14002

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3 minutes ago, Goodman said:

He was great but lost his way, not talking about the other woman we had to bury. After that he was born again, just not on the court. He got a boost of energy at a new school. Powers led us to a terrible AD hire which led us into an inexplicable contract. I trust CDC to hire well when that time comes.

He wants coaches that built contending programs.  I want Shaka fired asap because I think CDC is going to break the traditional Texas mold of hiring coaches.  I'm not sure he would have hired Pierce or even Herman.  and I damn sure don't think he would have hired one hit wonder Smart, especially in one of the 2 revenue sports.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18487

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51 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Sorry - you think Texas is in the same tier as Florida, Michigan and Gonzaga when it comes to hoops? 

Texas doesn't even have the program history OU does. 

I respect that you really really love Texas basketball but the culture just isn't there yet for Texas to be a national contender anytime soon. 

One of the greatest 20 players to ever pick up a basketball played at Texas and got bounced in the 2nd round.

Basketball is a fickle mistress. It isn't just money and brand name and arena seats. You can't buy national titles in basketball the way you seem to think.

Shit, even Calipari has done it just once and that was on the back of one of the greatest college players ever. 

Culture, culture, culture. Barnes got damn close a few times and built the culture to a respectable degree. Unfortunately the past 5-6 years have basically destroyed that.

Texas will need a great coach that wins a lot right off the bat to get culture and fan support where it needs to be for UT to be a national contender. 

On the flip side - you look at football - Texas is never more than a good coach and a few recruiting classes from being a perennial top 5 power.

When people say that Texas is a football school it is for a reason. 

I'd love to see UT win the dance. It just seems like a little bit of a pipe dream right now. There is a lot of muck to clean up before sweet sixteens and elite eights are expected again the way that Barnes let the fanbase grow accustomed to.

And before I get Derka'd I'm saying all of this with hope for a brighter future. Just want to offer a more objective take.

The culture you speak of will never exist at Texas.

This is a football school first. Baseball second.

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ztejas

ztejas 43190

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17 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

no you're right @ztejas, it's impossible for anyone to win a title at Texas "because the culture isn't there". Which means that Texas will literally never win a title since you can't get the culture there without winning it all first. That's fucking brilliant. The idea that it's impossible to win a title at Texas is too fucking stupid for me to argue over. You can believe whatever you want. 

Dude slow your roll. Never said it was impossible. Just that it isn't easy.  

Texas has had 2 FF appearances in what, 75 years? While never playing in a title game? 

That's a tough history to overcome. Barnes got close but never made good on it. 

I don't get why you're putting Texas in the convo with programs that have won and or played for national titles in the championship game. Like I said, you seem like a good fan and one that wants the program to succeed.

I just think it's unreasonable to expect that UT is 3 years away at any given point from contending for a national title. The amount of legitimate NBA players (along with 2 future hall of famers in the past 12 years that have come through the program) that have not given Texas any postseason success makes my point for me. 

The ceiling for Texas is making the tournament, hitting the Sweet Sixteen once every 2 or 3 years and occasionally making a deep run. I'm just not sure it will ever be different.

As @David Dennison said - Texas is by most metrics at least a top 10 football program in it's history and at least a top 3 baseball program. The culture for basketball just has never been there.

Again, Barnes tried to turn it around, but ultimately fell short.

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45428

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He's putting us in the conversation literally because "We're Texas", and it's a defensible position.

For fuck's sake, how long do we need to lurk around the #50 mark and watch a random assortment of FSU, Tennessee, and Virginia Tech squads work their way into the top 10?  Throw in this year's Auburn and Nebraska teams and I think the concern is pretty legitimate.  We're just not likely to get there under Shaka.  It's not like nobody wanted him when we hired him -- most Texas fans were pretty excited.  Some people thought "Pretty Woman" would win the Oscar, too.  Sometimes some (all) people are wrong.

We fucked up.  We hired a guy who doesn't seem to have what it takes.  

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

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As much as some on this board like to point out certain offensive statistics for this team as being extreme outliers, it appears the biggest statistical outlier is the difference between the team's expected and actual winning percentages (334th in basketball), or in other words, its horrible luck.  

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ztejas

ztejas 43190

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7 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

As much as some on this board like to point out certain offensive statistics for this team as being extreme outliers, it appears the biggest statistical outlier is the difference between the team's expected and actual winning percentages (334th in basketball), or in other words, its horrible luck.  

Horrible luck is one way to put it.

I would call it a demonstrated inability to close out and win games.

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

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1 minute ago, ztejas said:

Horrible luck is one way to put it.

I would call it a demonstrated inability to close out and win games.

I would bet there is very little correlation between a team's winning % and their winning % in close games, with close games being more of a coin flip.   Shaka has had plenty of lucky and unlucky seasons as HC, so his teams do not demonstrate any kind of skill with respect to outperforming/underperforming their expected winning %s.  Most likely his team, which is actually pretty good, has just been unlucky this year.

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Brian Fantana

Brian Fantana 6652

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

I would bet there is very little correlation between a team's winning % and their winning % in close games, with close games being more of a coin flip.   Shaka has had plenty of lucky and unlucky seasons as HC, so his teams do not demonstrate any kind of skill with respect to outperforming/underperforming their expected winning %s.  Most likely his team, which is actually pretty good, has just been unlucky this year.

What you're saying is definitely partially true, but also there are things like Roach's lack of discipline on the final play and Osetkowski missing 999 layups that factor in that aren't really bad luck.

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Machinator

Machinator 32097

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The deeper problem is that there are games (not necessarily yesterday's KU game) where we are the better team but become "coin-flip" close games. The Radford game is the chief example this year. The blown double-digit lead against OSU in Stillwater last year is another one. There are also some games that we ended up winning that were needlessly close; the VCU game last year comes to mind.

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