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Beau Vine

2020 Hall of Fame Thread

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Ballots have been mail to BBWAA voters!

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The Tracker will be here: https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=F2E5D8FC5199DFAF!17003&ithint=file,xlsx&authkey=!ALD8BEbKmTajwcI

FWIW, I'd vote for Bonds, Clemens, Jeter, Andruw, Schilling off the top of my head, and I'd give Walker and Wagner a lot more consideration before casting a ballot. 

Edited by Beau Vine

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Boy, that is a grim list. The first-year-on-the-ballot guys are all hot garbage besides Herpes Jeter. I'm sure his overrated ass gets in on the first vote, which is a joke. After that it's all guys who were known roid-freaks, closers, Rockies, assholes and Andruw Jones. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, closetojumping said:

Boy, that is a grim list. The first-year-on-the-ballot guys are all hot garbage besides Herpes Jeter. I'm sure his overrated ass gets in on the first vote, which is a joke. After that it's all guys who were known roid-freaks, closers, Rockies, assholes and Andruw Jones. 

 

 

Jeter certainly has HOF worthy stats, advanced metrics, and hardware (maybe not 1st ballot caliber but still). When you factor in his intangibles, clutchness, character, and the flip play from the 2001 playoffs he’s a surefire 1st ballot entrant imo. He’s the reason I wore #2 and played shortstop as a kid, and a huge reason why I fell in love with the Yankees and the game of baseball. You’d be lucky to catch herpes from him. 

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1 hour ago, Helobious said:

Jeter certainly has HOF worthy stats, advanced metrics, and hardware (maybe not 1st ballot caliber but still). When you factor in his intangibles, clutchness, character, and the flip play from the 2001 playoffs he’s a surefire 1st ballot entrant imo. He’s the reason I wore #2 and played shortstop as a kid, and a huge reason why I fell in love with the Yankees and the game of baseball. You’d be lucky to catch herpes from him. 

Get this motherfucker a gift basket.

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14 hours ago, Helobious said:

Clemens, Giambi, Jeter, Pettitte, Sheffield, Soriano. 

Don't really know how you can say Clemens without saying Bonds.  You either forgive the roiding, in which case they are the two clearest hall of famers of the last half century, or you don't.

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3 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

Don't really know how you can say Clemens without saying Bonds.  You either forgive the roiding, in which case they are the two clearest hall of famers of the last half century, or you don't.

Look who posted that list and what those players all have in common.  Then dispense yourself of the notion that there is any rational thought behind it.  

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On 11/19/2019 at 12:41 PM, Guadaloopy said:

Look who posted that list and what those players all have in common.  Then dispense yourself of the notion that there is any rational thought behind it.  

This is Helo talking about the Yankees in the 90's

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Bonds, Clemens, Jeter.

I think Walker and Schilling are close.

Rolen, Jones and Helton were damn good but not quite HOFers. 

Damn Andruw Jones looked like a sure-fire HOFer early in his career. 

Edited by Hank Chinaski

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2 hours ago, spystud13 said:

Marvin Miller & Ted Simmons are in from the old-timers. 

Good for both of those guys, but what the hell does Lou Whitaker have to do?

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On 11/19/2019 at 1:36 PM, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

Don't really know how you can say Clemens without saying Bonds.  You either forgive the roiding, in which case they are the two clearest hall of famers of the last half century, or you don't.

Well there is the whole issue of the fact that it was proven Bonds received roids from his trainer, but the jury decided he actually didn't know he was getting roids.  There is the other issue that despite millions of dollars and a full year federal investigation and trial there is exactly ZERO proof Clemens used any PED other than the word of a guy known to lie and shake people down for money.  Either way, they both should be in, PED use or not.  

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1 hour ago, pepper brooks said:

Well there is the whole issue of the fact that it was proven Bonds received roids from his trainer, but the jury decided he actually didn't know he was getting roids.  There is the other issue that despite millions of dollars and a full year federal investigation and trial there is exactly ZERO proof Clemens used any PED other than the word of a guy known to lie and shake people down for money.  Either way, they both should be in, PED use or not.  

  Not a nice thing at all to say about Andy Pettitte...

 

Edited by Beau Vine

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6 hours ago, Focht Up said:

It's crazy to me that Dale Murphy is not in the HOF.

He was great for a fairly short period of time, and then dropped off dramatically very quickly.  I look forward to your support in a decade when I flood this forum with posts ranting about Paul Goldschmidt not making the HoF.  

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4 hours ago, Focht Up said:

I'm not arguing with your assessment, but not many players win league MVP in consecutive years.

They did more often back when they just gave the MVP to the guy with the most RBIs.  

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20 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

  Not a nice thing at all to say about Andy Pettitte...

 

andy pettitte is a known liar.  His dad busted him out on Houston radio when he slipped up and admitted he went to a drug store to pick up roids for andy.  

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3 hours ago, pepper brooks said:

andy pettitte is a known liar.  His dad busted him out on Houston radio when he slipped up and admitted he went to a drug store to pick up roids for andy.  

Walgreen's sells roids?

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This is much worse than Harold Baines getting elected:
 

Quote

Ken “Hawk” Harrelson is the 2020 recipient of the Ford C. Frick Award for excellence in baseball broadcasting, which will grant him entry to the National Baseball Hall of Fame. 

“I am truly humbled to receive the greatest honor for any broadcaster in baseball,” Harrelson said in a statement. “I would like to thank the Frick Award committee for selecting me for this tremendous honor. It is very humbling to join the impressive list of past recipients, including all of the voices who educated and entertained generations of Chicago fans over the years. I also want to thank the White Sox organization for allowing me the opportunity to bring the great game of baseball to our fans. In the end, broadcasting has always been about having a conversation with Sox fans, and I need to thank them from the bottom of my heart for allowing me into their homes each night to talk about the team and the sport we all love.”

This award, announced Wednesday, comes after a 2019 baseball season that saw Harrelson call zero baseball games, which is a fairly sharp indicator that this award is not about some deep qualitative analysis of his announcing work, how smoothly he performed his ad reads, the depth of his research and preparation or the precision of his insight. His recent years wouldn’t be considered his peak in that regard anyway.

Instead, the timing of this award signals its intention as historical. If the Hall of Fame is above all a baseball museum, a compendium of the last few decades is incomplete without Harrelson, a White Sox institution who at times was as recognizable as any active member of the team he fervently carried the torch for even in the darkest and most irrelevant of times. To exclude him is to exclude the White Sox, and I do not believe there are any such proposals currently on the table.

In a sport like baseball, there’s no way Harrelson could actually claim to be the most hated inductee of all time, but let’s leave it at simply that he was divisive across the industry, even among White Sox fans. He picked an extreme position in the debate over whether a local announcer should serve as a sober moderator or a slightly more (or less) restrained superfan. If you somehow don’t have an aging relative who tests your patience with oft-repeated stories and laments developments from the last 20 years, Hawk served as a reasonable stand-in 162 times per year. It wore on many, and even more claimed that it did.

As someone who grew up watching Harrelson — absorbing everything White Sox baseball through his lens, but not much enjoying his work by the end of his career — I would like to think I can see both sides. There’s something deeply strange about an announcer, for whom the national discussion usually circles around widespread hatred and a debate over whether he’s terrible or perfectly tailored to a specific audience, being recognized for excellence. But it’s a strange sport, and partly because of him.

Harrelson is in the Hall of Fame now, for good, and it’s probably more useful to rationalize why than rail against it. With 40 years behind the microphone, a long chronicle could be made of the sheer volume of verbiage he has deposited into the game via his very intentional efforts to concoct new catchphrases and nicknames on a regular basis. But “cans of corn” are just like batting gloves, in that the line between invention and popularization can get very blurry.

“It’s certainly, in my opinion, richly deserved,” White Sox general manager Rick Hahn said. “An iconic figure in the game. I mean, he’s obviously a skilled broadcaster, but he’s also someone who’s not only become an ambassador for the White Sox, but for the game as a whole. In terms of promoting it and attracting fans and it would be fitting, in my opinion, for that to be recognized.”

Believe it or not, there was a taxonomy to Harrelson’s boisterous, screaming celebrations, or even the force of the breathing into the mic during his furious silence. The number and clarity (or lack thereof) of the “Yes!” exclamations provided an instant calibration for just how important, or thrilling, or just how much of a vital break from frustration every White Sox triumph was. Even a White Sox moment witnessed in person at the ballpark was more fully realized – -even rewatched on a phone, in an empty parking lot, hours after interviewing the players involved — with Harrelson’s romanticized narration, or his anguish, or just his screams.

A big win sounded like one. A crushing loss was a tragic death. A small, passing triumph that meant nothing by the next sunrise but felt good for a moment (man, were there plenty of these) was celebrated with inexhaustible relish. The White Sox have one of the sharpest, meticulously prepared and empathetic announcers in the game right now. They want for nothing. But they used to have a human mood ring, a constant pulse brought to life and given words. They had a voice. 

You kind of had to be there to appreciate Harrelson, and I’m not sure what can be done to make future generations understand what it was like. Apparently one thing they’re going to try is putting him in the Hall of Fame.

 

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On 12/8/2019 at 10:28 PM, spystud13 said:

He wasn’t that close either. 

 

 

good for Simmons.  he had the unfortunate timing of having a career in the exact time frame as Fisk and Bench.  he was below avg fielding initially but worked his way to average and was close to bench and fisk in the hitting department.  he also only made the post season twice.

Evans, Parker, Garvey, and Murphy are all almost the same player. Parker could have been a sure fire but he got roped into the drugs.

for a 4  year period Murphy was the best player in the game.

Evans has the highest WAR.

Garvey falls just short, playing first base hurts him.   reportedly he was an ass in the clubhouse.

I'd go with Parker if I had to pick one of the 4 but damn its close.

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12 hours ago, dcar00 said:

schilling and walker are never getting in if they don't get in this year.

???  Walker will easily get put in by a committee.

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On 12/31/2019 at 9:14 PM, Beau Vine said:

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worst ballot of the year, worse than Jeter-only.

 

 

 

Vizquel doesn't get nearly the respect that he deserves. The dude was one of the best defensive shortstops to play the game, with likely the quickest hands I have ever seen. He deserves to be in eventually, if not this year

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8 hours ago, Jim Tressell’s Vest said:

Vizquel doesn't get nearly the respect that he deserves. The dude was one of the best defensive shortstops to play the game, with likely the quickest hands I have ever seen. He deserves to be in eventually, if not this year

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/omar-vizquel-and-the-worst-hitters-in-the-hall-of-fame/

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8 hours ago, PappyVanVinceYoung said:

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What kind of person votes for Bonds but not for Clemens? 

 

Christina Kahrl.

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13 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Christina Kahrl.

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And here's her ballot. So Bonds, Pettitte, Sosa, Manny, and Sheffield were all PED users and got her vote. No vote for Clemens. Makes sense. 

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Jon Heyman didn't vote for Roger Clemens for the Hall of Fame because Clemens lied about his transgressions many times. Also, Jon Heyman said this:

 

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6 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

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talk about trying to split hairs and giving Bonds a pass.  ridiculous on its face.  Bonds lied in court also which is a crime.  

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13 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Bonds, Clemens, and Rose should all be in the HOF.

agree, just more of that old "gentleman's game" bullshit from the early days of baseball, the same attitude that shit all over Ruth in his later years

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25 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Bonds and Clemens can be argued, but there is no intelligent argument for Rose.

I won’t try to call this an intelligent argument by any stretch but 4000 hits is 4000 hits. 

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