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Millennials & Gen Xers better than Boomers...

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16 hours ago, Samson's Wig said:

Millennial or boomer?

I was born on a generational cusp, so it takes a bit more work to calculate my personality traits.  It's still doable, though.  Just like when one is born on a zodiac cusp and they take on astrological traits of both.  Another contributing factor to who I am is the number type of the year I was born, which happens to be semi prime.  This makes it difficult for me to make decisions.  My brother, on the other hand, was born in a prime number year and so obviously he is a real black and white type of guy.   

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I used to walk to that beer place on the corner of 28th and Rio Grande (lived right over there) and pick up Franziskaner and other random beer back in '92 and '93.  I tended to either drink that kind of beer or Keystone Light/Coors Light at fraternity parties.  Gen-X was ahead of the curve (on everything).

 

Yeah, I'm down with avocado toast.  Tastes great, nutritious and you can make it a ton of different ways.  

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39 minutes ago, texasdago said:

I used to walk to that beer place on the corner of 28th and Rio Grande (lived right over there) and pick up Franziskaner and other random beer back in '92 and '93.  I tended to either drink that kind of beer or Keystone Light/Coors Light at fraternity parties.  Gen-X was ahead of the curve (on everything).

 

Yeah, I'm down with avocado toast.  Tastes great, nutritious and you can make it a ton of different ways.  

35th and Ave. G, holla.  Shipe park pool in the summer with the gf.  Head over to that shop you mention (my roommate worked there, so discounted always), then maybe Texas French Bread in the morning.  Maybe a haircut at the shop with the guy who stocked Playboys on the magazine rack.  

Life was pretty much perfect.  

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1 hour ago, Axiom of Choice said:

I was born on a generational cusp, so it takes a bit more work to calculate my personality traits.  It's still doable, though.  Just like when one is born on a zodiac cusp and they take on astrological traits of both.  Another contributing factor to who I am is the number type of the year I was born, which happens to be semi prime.  This makes it difficult for me to make decisions.  My brother, on the other hand, was born in a prime number year and so obviously he is a real black and white type of guy.   

lol.  Given your username, and prior posts, you at least seem like a sharp guy - so I assume this is all shtick.  If not, you definitely share the common millennial and boomer trait of being too egocentric to see the forest for the trees.  Of course an individual, especially one as unique as yourself, cannot be pigeonholed based on year of birth.   When discussing general behavior patterns of large groups, however, year of birth is an excellent indicator.  Equating that to astrology or palm reading is intellectually dishonest at best.  I'm sorry you don't like whatever it is people say about folks your age.  I've never met anybody who says, "Yep, those stereotypes about my generation are spot on and describe me perfectly!"   

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1 hour ago, Samson's Wig said:

lol.  Given your username, and prior posts, you at least seem like a sharp guy - so I assume this is all shtick.  If not, you definitely share the common millennial and boomer trait of being too egocentric to see the forest for the trees.  Of course an individual, especially one as unique as yourself, cannot be pigeonholed based on year of birth.   When discussing general behavior patterns of large groups, however, year of birth is an excellent indicator.  Equating that to astrology or palm reading is intellectually dishonest at best.  I'm sorry you don't like whatever it is people say about folks your age.  I've never met anybody who says, "Yep, those stereotypes about my generation are spot on and describe me perfectly!"   

There are numerous problems with categorizing folks into 15-20 year generational groups for the purposes of generalizing behaviors and assigning traits.  For one, the generational dividing lines are completely arbitrary.  You can be lumped into a group with a person 15 years older than you while a person born two years later is in another group with a separate list of stereotypes.  This makes no sense.  As for where we decide to draw these lines, we can put them wherever we like (similar to zodiac signs in that regard) supported with nothing more than remotely plausible sounding justification.  The reason we can do this is that these lines are not real divisions.  For some reason people talk about them as if they were real, presumably because they are repeated frequently so they seem real.  Secondly, we are talking about tens of millions of people in these generational groups with massive diversity within them.  Whatever vague trend we think we can find is not likely to apply to any given individual.  But they frequently do get applied to given individuals, which is what happened in the origin of the “ok, boomer” meme.  We recognize that searching for loosely correlated trends with groups of millions of people and assigning them to individuals is unethical, but for some reason people think that this basic ethical rule doesn’t apply in this case.  

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You're like my younger cousins.  I guess that's the age range I tend to think of for peak Millenials.  IE, the first group of people to enter college already well versed in social media.

That's the very end of the millennial generation. The line between gen Z and millenials is generally drawn somewhere between 1996-2000. Peak millennial is the current late 20s/early 30s crowd.

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10 minutes ago, gmr548 said:


That's the very end of the millennial generation. The line between gen Z and millenials is generally drawn somewhere between 1996-2000. Peak millennial is the current late 20s/early 30s crowd.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

All the olds think everything is because of Millennials. That "ok boomer" shit is from Gen Z, not Millennials.

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Yeah but only the Gen X guys are triggered by it.  
It’s a little overplayed but the people all up in arms about it are exactly the reason for that.  I think of it like the horns down, if people didn’t get their panties all in a wad about it it would’ve died out long ago.  

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What's confusing to me is how "Ok boomer" is a hilarious, transcendental and all-time burn. It's basically the verbal Jennifer Lawrence "Okay" gif, which is funny and all, but...well, heck. I guess as a millennial I'm already out of touch. Father time is undefeated.

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4 hours ago, Axiom of Choice said:

There are numerous problems with categorizing folks into 15-20 year generational groups for the purposes of generalizing behaviors and assigning traits.  For one, the generational dividing lines are completely arbitrary.  You can be lumped into a group with a person 15 years older than you while a person born two years later is in another group with a separate list of stereotypes.  This makes no sense.  As for where we decide to draw these lines, we can put them wherever we like (similar to zodiac signs in that regard) supported with nothing more than remotely plausible sounding justification.  The reason we can do this is that these lines are not real divisions.  For some reason people talk about them as if they were real, presumably because they are repeated frequently so they seem real.  Secondly, we are talking about tens of millions of people in these generational groups with massive diversity within them.  Whatever vague trend we think we can find is not likely to apply to any given individual.  But they frequently do get applied to given individuals, which is what happened in the origin of the “ok, boomer” meme.  We recognize that searching for loosely correlated trends with groups of millions of people and assigning them to individuals is unethical, but for some reason people think that this basic ethical rule doesn’t apply in this case.  

get a grip.  generational chatter is for amusement.  identifying trends within millions of people and assuming it is true about an individual is not unethical.  we do it all the time.  it's unethical when it gets tied up to the historically oppressive version of that.  and its not anything like astrology based on the arbitrariness of the dividing lines.  people born in a certain period have similar social influences that will differ from those born in other periods.  that affects behavior.  that is not true of zodiac.  nor do people draw the strict lines between generations and say people born 15 years apart are more similar than those born 2 years apart.  have you ever interacted with other humans before?  your mensa philosopher shtick is obnoxious as fuck.

hey, little timmy, i got you this baseball glove for christmas!  oh shit, i just picked up a righthanded one based on overarching trends!  how embarrassing of an ethical faux pas!  

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4 hours ago, gmr548 said:


That's the very end of the millennial generation. The line between gen Z and millenials is generally drawn somewhere between 1996-2000. Peak millennial is the current late 20s/early 30s crowd.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

Yup... I think peak millennial is those who were coming out of college during the ‘08 financial crisis and couldn’t find a job. 

I graduated college into the roaring Trump economy ;)!

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5 hours ago, Axiom of Choice said:

There are numerous problems with categorizing folks into 15-20 year generational groups for the purposes of generalizing behaviors and assigning traits.  For one, the generational dividing lines are completely arbitrary.  You can be lumped into a group with a person 15 years older than you while a person born two years later is in another group with a separate list of stereotypes.  This makes no sense.  As for where we decide to draw these lines, we can put them wherever we like (similar to zodiac signs in that regard) supported with nothing more than remotely plausible sounding justification.  The reason we can do this is that these lines are not real divisions.  For some reason people talk about them as if they were real, presumably because they are repeated frequently so they seem real.  Secondly, we are talking about tens of millions of people in these generational groups with massive diversity within them.  Whatever vague trend we think we can find is not likely to apply to any given individual.  But they frequently do get applied to given individuals, which is what happened in the origin of the “ok, boomer” meme.  We recognize that searching for loosely correlated trends with groups of millions of people and assigning them to individuals is unethical, but for some reason people think that this basic ethical rule doesn’t apply in this case.  

Ugh.

Edited by Samson's Wig

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5 hours ago, Axiom of Choice said:

There are numerous problems with categorizing folks into 15-20 year generational groups for the purposes of generalizing behaviors and assigning traits.  For one, the generational dividing lines are completely arbitrary.  You can be lumped into a group with a person 15 years older than you while a person born two years later is in another group with a separate list of stereotypes.  This makes no sense.  As for where we decide to draw these lines, we can put them wherever we like (similar to zodiac signs in that regard) supported with nothing more than remotely plausible sounding justification.  The reason we can do this is that these lines are not real divisions.  For some reason people talk about them as if they were real, presumably because they are repeated frequently so they seem real.  Secondly, we are talking about tens of millions of people in these generational groups with massive diversity within them.  Whatever vague trend we think we can find is not likely to apply to any given individual.  But they frequently do get applied to given individuals, which is what happened in the origin of the “ok, boomer” meme.  We recognize that searching for loosely correlated trends with groups of millions of people and assigning them to individuals is unethical, but for some reason people think that this basic ethical rule doesn’t apply in this case.  

Statistical analysis is racist.

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All the olds think everything is because of Millennials. That "ok boomer" shit is from Gen Z, not Millennials.


Most of the things that gets blamed on Millennials stems from Gen Z, is what I’ve gathered.

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7 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

35th and Ave. G, holla.  Shipe park pool in the summer with the gf.  Head over to that shop you mention (my roommate worked there, so discounted always), then maybe Texas French Bread in the morning.  Maybe a haircut at the shop with the guy who stocked Playboys on the magazine rack.  

Life was pretty much perfect.  

My brother worked as Shipe lifeguard .... summer of 1963.

He drank a lot of frat rat keg beer.

Edited by Armybrat

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7 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

35th and Ave. G, holla.  Shipe park pool in the summer with the gf.  Head over to that shop you mention (my roommate worked there, so discounted always), then maybe Texas French Bread in the morning.  Maybe a haircut at the shop with the guy who stocked Playboys on the magazine rack.  

Life was pretty much perfect.  

Moved to Austin in '96 with the ex for grad school and lived in those apartments at 45th and Duval. My beer was purchased from the converted gas station at 43rd and Duval. They had a great selection of imports. Bought cigs at the corner store at 45th and Duval (I think people call it the flag store nowadays). The guy behind the counter had a small role in 'Slackers'. Shipe became a staple and, yes, I got haircuts from the old Mexican guy with the Playboys whose shop was across from Fresh Plus. Ditto on breakfast at Texas French Bread.

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Around that time I lived so close to the back of Texas French Bread on Red River that I could have heaved a Celis beer bottle against the back of its building without fully rising up out of the hammock, had I so desired. And I did not.

Fire pits, cheapish dumpy old hippy houses, and poontang. Now all paved over with condos and incel tech bros. Chase that curly bracket, chase it!

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6 hours ago, Axiom of Choice said:

There are numerous problems with categorizing folks into 15-20 year generational groups for the purposes of generalizing behaviors and assigning traits.  For one, the generational dividing lines are completely arbitrary.  You can be lumped into a group with a person 15 years older than you while a person born two years later is in another group with a separate list of stereotypes.  This makes no sense.  As for where we decide to draw these lines, we can put them wherever we like (similar to zodiac signs in that regard) supported with nothing more than remotely plausible sounding justification.  The reason we can do this is that these lines are not real divisions.  For some reason people talk about them as if they were real, presumably because they are repeated frequently so they seem real.  Secondly, we are talking about tens of millions of people in these generational groups with massive diversity within them.  Whatever vague trend we think we can find is not likely to apply to any given individual.  But they frequently do get applied to given individuals, which is what happened in the origin of the “ok, boomer” meme.  We recognize that searching for loosely correlated trends with groups of millions of people and assigning them to individuals is unethical, but for some reason people think that this basic ethical rule doesn’t apply in this case.  

It's all about shared experiences and cultural touchstones. Generations are somewhat fluid but definitely not arbitrary. Boomers are called what they are precisely because the population *boomed* in the post-war era because of high birth rates associated with GIs coming home and a *booming* economy, because the US didn't have much competition as Europe was still digging out of the rubble. America had hit its peak.

Gen X was actually originally called the "Baby Bust" because birth rates fell after the pill and Roe v. Wade. That's why there are so few of us, relatively speaking. We grew up in the post Civil Rights, post Vietnam, and post Watergate era when American confidence first began to falter, but really started becoming aware during the '80s with Reagan, ET, D&D, Atari, and the Day After. Finally, we started becoming adults about the time the Berlin Wall fell, grunge happened, Slackers was filmed, and imported beer became a thing. We carry those experiences and they color the lenses through which we see the world.

Edit: Many, if not most, of us were also the first generation to have working moms or divorced parents and were the original "latchkey kids" left to our own devices and get into trouble after school.

Edited by bolverk

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6 hours ago, Axiom of Choice said:

  For one, the generational dividing lines are completely arbitrary

They're actually not. They are tied to certain social and technological shifts, and are actually very indicative of the things people are using to characterize various generations.

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9 minutes ago, bolverk said:

the time the Berlin Wall fell,

This is still the most impactful moment of my life, moreso than even 9/11.

Also I feel a hell of a lot more connected to the cultural impact of Vietnam than Iraq ( and for various reasons beyond generations it touched most of the country obviously, draft etc.)

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12 minutes ago, G650 said:

This is still the most impactful moment of my life, moreso than even 9/11.

Also I feel a hell of a lot more connected to the cultural impact of Vietnam than Iraq ( and for various reasons beyond generations it touched most of the country obviously, draft etc.)

Same. The events that occur when you are coming of age are the ones that have the most lasting impact on your outlook. It's why the "liberal youngster grows into the conservative curmudgeon" meme is utter bullshit. A couple of years ago, NYTimes had article on a study showing that voting habits become baked in very early in adulthood and typically don't change that much over time. If certain things happen at specific moments during your life, they continue to color your perspective for a lifetime. Just think of the folks who came of age during the Depression and how they became lifetime savers who never threw away anything.

Edited by bolverk
threw =/= through

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Maybe I shoulda just titled the thread “Young Folks Brew Better & More Varieties of Beers Than Past Generations”.

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18 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Maybe I shoulda just titled the thread “Young Folks Brew Better & More Varieties of Beers Than Past Generations”.

Hey...I did mention imported beer in my first post.

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1 hour ago, blacklab said:

I only knew it as Pronto, switch happened after I left. 

Always Pronto for me too.

I was always amused getting my returned checks from the bank at the end of each month and seeing the number of $3 checks for a 6-pack of Mickey's I had made out to "Proto" or "Prono" or possibly even "Poonto."  Don't care, got malt liquor.

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6 hours ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

identifying trends within millions of people and assuming it is true about an individual is not unethical.  we do it all the time. 

Well if it is what we do, then it can't be wrong.

  

5 hours ago, bolverk said:

It's all about shared experiences and cultural touchstones. Generations are somewhat fluid but definitely not arbitrary. Boomers are called what they are precisely because the population *boomed* in the post-war era because of high birth rates associated with GIs coming home and a *booming* economy, because the US didn't have much competition as Europe was still digging out of the rubble. America had hit its peak.

Gen X was actually originally called the "Baby Bust" because birth rates fell after the pill and Roe v. Wade. That's why there are so few of us, relatively speaking. We grew up in the post Civil Rights, post Vietnam, and post Watergate era when American confidence first began to falter, but really started becoming aware during the '80s with Reagan, ET, D&D, Atari, and the Day After. Finally, we started becoming adults about the time the Berlin Wall fell, grunge happened, Slackers was filmed, and imported beer became a thing. We carry those experiences and they color the lenses through which we see the world.

Edit: Many, if not most, of us were also the first generation to have working moms or divorced parents and were the original "latchkey kids" left to our own devices and get into trouble after school.

Highlighting key events within a time period doesn't make the placement of the dividing lines any less arbitrary.  The types of generational categorization where generations are sectioned off in discrete consecutive blocks (e.g. boomers, gen x, millennials, gen z) are known as pulse rate hypotheses:  "..it is astonishing that both authors tried in a speculative manner to project the biological generations' interval of thirty (or fifteen) years onto the passage of historical events. They assumed that there exists, as it were, an arithmetic bridge which links the biological-genealogical rhythm of individual lives with the chronology of collective history. Their hypothesis lent to future discussions about historical generations an often hazardous and mystical quality. Since their adherents insist on a biologically determined rhythm which cannot be explained through external, experimental factors, this approach will be referred to here as the 'pulse-rate hypothesis.''' 

Even if we grant that some significant event shaped a given group of kids (the baby boom, for example), it doesn't follow that some meaningful proceeding generational dividing lines now come in regular 20 year intervals.  Pulse rate hypotheses do no have strong support among social scientists.  They are not well supported by evidence, and they are often not even falsifiable.  In other words, pseudoscience.      

 

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On 11/20/2019 at 12:49 PM, SwanderedTalent said:

I've never eaten avocado toast but of all the things millennials do and like, that seems like the oddest one to get bothered over literally or symbolically 

it's just avocado on toast, man

Boomers perfected the art of cheap processed crap food full of corn syrup and large scale commercial farming. It’s not surprising that they get surly over avocado toast because it’s costs more, being real and actually nutritious, and millennials like it even though they are broke. Gives boomers more fodder for being judgy. “If you’re broke you should eat Mac and cheese boxes and ramen noodles.” 

It actually ties nicely into op’s topic. The boomers also perfected folgers crystals and 50 varieties of “ice” and “dry” beers which were just watered down with corn and rice to make it cheaper and skunkier. I’ll pay for better beer even if it strains my budget some weeks, because it’s worth it, and supports local business.

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Highlighting key events within a time period doesn't make the placement of the dividing lines any less arbitrary.  The types of generational categorization where generations are sectioned off in discrete consecutive blocks (e.g. boomers, gen x, millennials, gen z) are known as pulse rate hypotheses:  "..it is astonishing that both authors tried in a speculative manner to project the biological generations' interval of thirty (or fifteen) years onto the passage of historical events. They assumed that there exists, as it were, an arithmetic bridge which links the biological-genealogical rhythm of individual lives with the chronology of collective history. Their hypothesis lent to future discussions about historical generations an often hazardous and mystical quality. Since their adherents insist on a biologically determined rhythm which cannot be explained through external, experimental factors, this approach will be referred to here as the 'pulse-rate hypothesis.''' 
Even if we grant that some significant event shaped a given group of kids (the baby boom, for example), it doesn't follow that some meaningful proceeding generational dividing lines now come in regular 20 year intervals.  Pulse rate hypotheses do no have strong support among social scientists.  They are not well supported by evidence, and they are often not even falsifiable.  In other words, pseudoscience.      
 

You are arguing against nothing. No one suggested anything in line with what you've been going on about. The pseudo intellectual shitick isn't something you're pulling off well.

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12 hours ago, G650 said:

This is still the most impactful moment of my life, moreso than even 9/11.

Also I feel a hell of a lot more connected to the cultural impact of Vietnam than Iraq ( and for various reasons beyond generations it touched most of the country obviously, draft etc.)

 

12 hours ago, bolverk said:

Same. The events that occur when you are coming of age are the ones that have the most lasting impact on your outlook. It's why the "liberal youngster grows into the conservative curmudgeon" meme is utter bullshit. A couple of years ago, NYTimes had article on a study showing that voting habits become baked in very early in adulthood and typically don't change that much over time. If certain things happen at specific moments during your life, they continue to color your perspective for a lifetime. Just think of the folks who came of age during the Depression and how they became lifetime savers who never threw away anything.

 

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Pronto, that's it.  I lived at the complex at 28th and Rio Grande.  The nice brick one... not the crappier one closer to the ZBT house.  That was a great year!

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1 minute ago, Armybrat said:

German bier anyone?

Sure!

I don't care about all of these stupid arguments that arose in this thread, so I'll just agree with the spirit of your OP-- the generations that came after the boomers are doing a much better job of demanding, and creating, more and better beers.

Which is a wonderful thing!

 

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14 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

Back to what matters, if you took the Celis brewery tour on an empty stomach, you could catch a buzz.

Their Grand Crux would knock your dick into the dirt. It was like 9% abv. 

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22 hours ago, texasdago said:

I used to walk to that beer place on the corner of 28th and Rio Grande 

When my oldest brother (Class of 1961) got married his sophomore year at UT in 1958,  he and his bride (Class of 1967)  moved into an old duplex at 2826 Rio Grande. They just celebrated their 61st anniversary (4 kids, 7 grandkids, and 10 greatgrandkids later)

In January of 1959 when my mom & other brother flew into Austin to live (dad was retiring from the Army), we stayed in that little place for several nights before moving into the ground floor apartment of the old house next door to the fraternity across from Caswell Tennis Center.

Edited by Armybrat
Adding more useless shit

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I've decided that regardless of his generation this Axiom of Choice fella would suck balls to hang out and drink delicious craft beer with in real life.  

Edited by Surly Bevo

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Just now, workswithseed said:

Czech is my favorite.

Absolutely, smooth, tight, slim body, crisp and completely refreshing.

 

 

The beer is aight as well

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6 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

I've decided that regardless of his generation this Axiom of Choice fella would suck balls to hang out and drink delicious craft beer with in real life.  

Well, you are probably correct, as my beer drinkin’ limit these days is just two pints.

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14 hours ago, bolverk said:

Moved to Austin in '96 with the ex for grad school and lived in those apartments at 45th and Duval. My beer was purchased from the converted gas station at 43rd and Duval. They had a great selection of imports. Bought cigs at the corner store at 45th and Duval (I think people call it the flag store nowadays). The guy behind the counter had a small role in 'Slackers'. Shipe became a staple and, yes, I got haircuts from the old Mexican guy with the Playboys whose shop was across from Fresh Plus. Ditto on breakfast at Texas French Bread.

We overlapped then.  I was in law school '97-'00.  That's when I was living over across from Shipe.  

 

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26 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

When my oldest brother (Class of 1961) got married his sophomore year at UT in 1958,  he and his bride (Class of 1967)  moved into an old duplex at 2826 Rio Grande. They just celebrated their 61st anniversary (4 kids, 7 grandkids, and 10 greatgrandkids later)

In January of 1959 when my mom & other brother flew into Austin to live (dad was retiring from the Army), we stayed in that little place for several nights before moving into the ground floor apartment of the old house next door to the fraternity across from Caswell Tennis Center.

So in 1958, he married someone that was class of 1967.

 

hansenlol.jpg

Edited by SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

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1 hour ago, Loco said:

 

 

I was an exchange student in France during the '89-'90 school year - it was a great time to be in Europe. The town I was living in had a sister-city relationship with one in Germany. During the Xmas break, the towns organized a visit and so several of us went and stayed with Germany families for the week that included New Year's Eve. I can tell you, the French and German (and, me, the lone American) students had a helluva beer and champagne party above the "Hitler Wall" at the top of a hill overlooking the town.

Quote

 

"The Wall: (aka "the Hitler Wall"), a remnant of Robert Ley's megalomaniacal projects during the Nazi era, offering an panoramic view of Waldbröl and a magnificent distant view over the landscape of upper Berg county. It was a part of the projected Adolf Hitler School. In the early 1980s, unknowns painted the slogan "No more war!" in huge letters upon the wall. Recently the wall got a complete overhaul and the slogan was re-painted. The wall is now officially approved as a "Monument To Peace".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldbröl

 


 

Spoiler

 

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DZ6qFC8W4AAehu3?format=jpg&name=900x900

 

 

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On 11/20/2019 at 12:26 PM, F250 said:

Same, did the homebrewing thing in the 90's and a lot of it was attempts at replicating European beer, especially Belgian stuff. I screwed up more than a few times, exploding beer bottles was a costly problem. I ended growing pot because it was a lot easier and cheaper.

I've looked into doing homebrew again and it's amazing how much equipment is available these days. So much more to work with versus the cheap kits that were available back in the 90's.

I tried home brewing about 10 years ago and both batches sucked. It was at that time that a few craft breweries opened nearby and they were damn good (one was Prairie, which is now super popular) so I said fuck it I’ll just pay them for their product. Like you said the equipment and ingredients for home brewing is more sophisticated now and I might give it another shot. A friend is making some good stuff, I might ask to join him on his next batch.

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Pronto, that's it.  I lived at the complex at 28th and Rio Grande.  The nice brick one... not the crappier one closer to the ZBT house.  That was a great year!
Parapet? Lived there in 86-7

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