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purplepride95

Ex Cop and son kill unarmed black man jogging

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1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Perfectly fine hindsight analysis.  Can't fault it.  I just think most bets are off when you come around the truck and there's a dude drawn down on you.

Also, anyone else think it appears that Cletus shot at him as he went around the front of the truck for a total of three shots?

Hard to tell. This police shooting / Zimmerman epidemic has led black people, understandably, to be irate. It’s unfortunate that black parents MUST instruct their kids how to keep cool - conversations that I’ll never have with my kids. My conversations are “always say yes sir, no sir with police officers, treating them with the utmost respect, minimize your conversations, and if you don’t need them never engage them”. I don’t need to say anything else unless one of them proves to be a hothead, which they haven’t shown. I will add “if someone pulls a gun on you, listen to everything they say”, and they’ll listen, because they’re not embittered like I suspect all black people. 

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2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Also, in reluctantly looking for the video, I saw a partial explanation for the delay in charges.

Because Cletus, Sr. was a DA investigator, the DA with initial jurisdiction recused.

Then the second DA that got it recused from some relationship to the parties.

So it has been in kind of limbo the whole time.

Quoting the above for the below. 

2 minutes ago, purplepride95 said:

This! What I do believe is he would be alive if they stayed home and called the authorities. This young man thought his best action was to fight for his life. No one knows what they would do in that situation.

Sounds like these guys are going to prosecuted.  Yes they should’ve stayed home, but they should get theirs.  I believe he’d be alive if a cooler head had prevailed. The WORST action was to fight for your life. You must realize when you’ve brought only running shoes to a racist gun fight. 

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17 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

I saw the runner smartly veer right and then the camera went away from them. Next thing I know is there’s a gunshot and the guy is charging him. I don’t know who moved at who first. I infer two things: 1) the runner was sick and tired of likely some harassment and unfortunately exhibited poor judgment. Don’t give rednecks a reason to shoot. Maybe the first shot was in the back or air to scare the guy. But why charge him?  Why continue to charge after getting shot?  2) at best, the shooter and likely Dad are overzealous idiots and are guilty of manslaughter for no reason which likely kicks the charge up a notch. At worst they belong in prison for life. If this guy stole something, trail him and call the police. 

1 is really unbelievable. You don’t understand why someone might try to charge someone brandishing a weapon after he’s been shot? I’d say when the fight-or-flight response kicked in, he calculated his odds of wrestling it away were better than outrunning a bullet. You’re essentially asking why he didn’t just stand there and allow them to pump him full of lead.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

1 is really unbelievable. You don’t understand why someone might try to charge someone brandishing a weapon after he’s been shot? I’d say when the fight-or-flight response kicked in, he calculated his odds of wrestling it away were better than outrunning a bullet. You’re essentially asking why he didn’t just stand there and allow them to pump him full of lead.

Man if I’ve been shot, and not immediately lethally, I’m sitting down begging for police and medical help. I don’t know - maybe these guys attacked him verbally at the onset and he knew he was dead either way. I admittedly am thinking of this from a white perspective where this type of stuff doesn’t happen or can be avoided with a cool head. 

If I were him I would’ve immediately noted at least 2 men, 1 with a shotgun confronting me, and the other in the bed of a pickup and I would’ve assumed he was armed too (he was). I knew I would’ve had zero chance to make it out alive by engaging them with any type of defensive force.  So, yes, I’m asking why he didn’t stop in his tracks and do anything they asked. 

Edited by Dr. Beeper

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Man if I’ve been shot, and not immediately lethally, I’m sitting down begging for police and medical help. I don’t know - maybe these guys attacked him verbally at the onset and he knew he was dead either way. I admittedly am thinking of this from a white perspective where this type of stuff doesn’t happen or can be avoided with a cool head. 

If I were him I would’ve immediately noted at least 2 men, 1 with a shotgun confronting me, and the other in the bed of a pickup and I would’ve assumed he was armed too (he was). I knew I would’ve had zero chance to make it out alive by engaging them with any type of defensive force.  So, yes, I’m asking why he didn’t stop in his tracks and do anything they asked. 

If you’ve been shot, regardless of race, I don’t see why you would reasonably believe that these guys will just suddenly stop shooting you because you acted nice to them.

”Hey friend, you shot me! That wasn’t very neighborly. Would you mind summoning an ambulance and the police?”

”Sure thing, buddy. Sorry, we really lost our heads there for a sec. Thanks for keeping your cool!”

Edited by formermav43

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Is there any possibility this guy stole from these two guys? Or stole from the neighborhood?  Obviously this does this condone any subsequent action that played out. Just wondering what the purported facts are, or reports are. 

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The Op has the story. Apparently the son had his gun stolen from his unlocked truck previously. There had only been 1 or 2 calls about burglary in the area. Dad saw victim jogging on a Sunday afternoon and felt it was suspicious and he matched the suspects description(blek). So he went in to get son and guns to stop the bad guy. 

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16 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

I believe he’d be alive if a cooler head had prevailed. The WORST action was to fight for your life. You must realize when you’ve brought only running shoes to a racist gun fight. 

I don’t know what to make of your last half-dozen posts, but you keep acting like he somehow knew that he’d live through this if he somehow stayed calm.  

He’s black, and a couple of armed Cletus/Karen hybrids rolled up on him.   This normally does not play out well in the South.  

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First and foremost, Cletus and Jr. should never have confronted or "tried to talk to" the black guy.  Call the police if you want, follow at a distance if you must while talking to the dispatcher about location, but in no scenario try to "talk" to the guy with your guns. 

Trying to fit Cletus and Jr.'s actions from the article,

Quote

But on a Sunday afternoon in February, as Mr. Arbery ran through a suburban neighborhood of ranch houses and moss-draped oaks, he passed a man standing in his front yard, who later told the police that Mr. Arbery looked like the suspect in a string of break-ins.

And because Mr. Arbery was a “burglary suspect,” the pursuers, who had “solid firsthand probable cause,” were justified in chasing him under the state’s citizen’s arrest law.

In a separate document, Mr. Barnhill stated that video exists of Mr. Arbery “burglarizing a home immediately preceding the chase and confrontation.”

into the statute posted,

Quote

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

isn't easy.  

As far as I can tell, Cletus/Jr were not present for any crime committed.   Is he a "burglary suspect" because Cletus saw video from three weeks ago of this guy burglarizing a home?  Or, did neighbors tell Cletus "hey some black guy robbed a house last week"?  Even if this guy burgled a house immediately preceding the confrontation, as stated in Barnhill's letter, how do Cletus/Jr  have that knowledge if the article correctly quotes Cletus as saying "Mr. Arbery looked like the suspect in a string of break-ins"?  

If he burglarized a home immediately preceding the chase and confrontation, he didn't take anything or damage anything or the information would be out.  I'm pretty sure burglary doesn't require taking anything, but if the burglary that immediately preceded this consists of this guy walking through a home construction site without taking anything or intentionally damaging the construction, that's.....really something.  Either way, Cletus/Jr didn't know about the burglary when they armed themselves and gave chase.   

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20 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I don’t know what to make of your last half-dozen posts, but you keep acting like he somehow knew that he’d live through this if he somehow stayed calm.  

He’s black, and a couple of armed Cletus/Karen hybrids rolled up on him.   This normally does not play out well in the South.  

I know I seem like I’m faulting the dead and I’m sorry. It doesn’t appear he in any way brought this on himself, but this came to him, literally, in the middle of the street.  The only reason I have typed what I have is because I hate to see people get killed senselessly in brutal fashion.  The shooter’s culpability doesn’t seem to be in question and I’m trying to put myself in the deceased’s shoes. Unlike the Botham Jean situation, it just seems like this may have been avoided. That does not mean I’m in any way favoring the shooter or his dad. I’m sorry if I appear to be defending them. 

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That shooter is going to jail for a long time.  Assuming those were three shots I heard.  The first one was right when the guy swerved around the truck.  That is not justifiable.

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None of what cletus and 2 friends did is justified. All 3 should be locked up in general population

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I cannot imagine reacting to this story by speculating what the runner kid could have hypothetically done to not be gunned down in the street, why he was running in the first place, or rationalizing the actions of the shooters. Some of y'all need a fucking gut check. That was someone's kid. What if your kid got murdered running through a neighborhood?

There's no reason for the killers to have done what they did. Zero. Legally they may get off based on the discussion of the ridiculous law upthread, and I doubt the prosecutor in buttfuck, GA is going to push this one. They still murdered the kid.

And some of y'all need a reality check on the race angle too. There's zero chance they chase down a white kid to kill him. There's zero chance the NYT has to shine a light on it to get action if two black guys chase down a white runner.

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So ridiculous the prosecutor had the balls to bring up a prior SHOPLIFTING charge as if it is relevant in any way. In order to bring actionable charges against white people in Georgia, a black person must apparently be a perfect victim. 

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Just another day in Amerikkka. 

Also notice the TRUMP bumpersticker on the truck...

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3 hours ago, purplepride95 said:

No one knows what they would do in that situation.

I know what you are saying, but I’m pretty sure I would have chosen the same as he did.  In hindsight this would have been the wrong move, but if I round a corner (parked truck) and someone fires off a shot at me, his only option was “go time”.  This is pure fight or flight, and there was nowhere for flight.  Flight would only have guaranteed being shot in the back.  
 

These guys need to go down, and I’m not talking some limp ass manslaughter charge. Unfortunately sometimes as a society, we need to be reminded why you don’t do dumb shit like kill people because of their skin color.   Burn. Them. Down. 

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I'm reading the full letter the original prosecutor wrote. After recusing himself, he writes a butthurt 3-page screed attempting to prejudice the shit out of the media and public. Ugh.

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Why not call police and closely follow him? I will never understand the people who think owning a gun makes them an untouchable king. I carry a gun with me almost 24/7 and there is no way I'm going on the hunt for someone I suspect of being a burglar. 

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26 minutes ago, Grandioso said:

I'm reading the full letter the original prosecutor wrote. After recusing himself, he writes a butthurt 3-page screed attempting to prejudice the shit out of the media and public. Ugh.

That letter is fraught with grammatical fuckups. It’s hard to read. He is also very sure that no crime was committed - after watching the video. And, he comments on AA’s mental records and criminal records. 

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Who shot the video?!
If it’s one of the rednecks’ pals/family, I’d like to hear their purpose in filming.


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Just saw the video. At least 2nd degree murder by most state standards. Looks like Georgia doesn't distinguish between 1st degree (pre-mediation) and 2nd degree (no pre-meditation), there's just murder. I imagine they make that distinction implicitly in sentencing.  

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Btw the victim lived in the neighborhood across the main road from this neighborhood. It is a similar type neighborhood with good sized lots and older ranch houses. I don't really think he was "out of place" in the neighborhood.

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3 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

That shooter is going to jail for a long time. 

I’m sorry but what country do you think we live in here?

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56 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

That letter is fraught with grammatical fuckups. It’s hard to read. He is also very sure that no crime was committed - after watching the video. And, he comments on AA’s mental records and criminal records. 

His tone toward the victim's mother reeks of contempt. Even if you think you are correct, it is so unprofessional and insensitive to shit on this lady who VERY REASONABLY has questions and suspicions about the incident and its investigation. This prosecutor is a person who does not see the victim (or his grieving mother) a a coequal human being. 

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Who shot the video?!
If it’s one of the rednecks’ pals/family, I’d like to hear their purpose in filming.


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It looked like a dash cam. Don't know if they just kind of came upon it or of they were connected somehow. The lack of verbal reaction was kind of weird.

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1 hour ago, Dr. Beeper said:

(1) First of all, I recuse

(2) Second of all, here is exactly what happened to whoever moves forward with this.

What a piece of shit.

"The first shot is through his hand, which is consistent with pulling the barrel toward himself."   You know what else it is consistent with?  Any of 10,000 other reasons a shot might go through someone's hand.  Some Columbo out there might even point out a little sneaky thing called defensive wounds.

"The second and third shots are consistent with a struggle."  And the fourth and fifth shots.  It's really amazing this dude was able to empty a forty round magazine on himself. You'd think someone might be a little incredulous about being accidentally shot 3 times in a struggle.

"You can tell that McMichael is definitely trying to pull the gun away from Arbery while Arbery is trying to pull the gun toward himself, just like usually happens when i draw down on someone else, they're always all 'stop not pointing that gun at me' and i'm all 'i'm doing my best to not point my gun at you but you are just making me point it at you as you overpower me while your life is literally leaking out of you. stop stop'"

case closed.

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On 4/29/2020 at 12:54 PM, Pokoloco said:

 I'm not buying the out for a jog thing, but these 2 dipshits should've never taken the law into their own hands in the first place. 

 

Watch the video and say that again.

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30 minutes ago, gmr548 said:
2 hours ago, PW119 said:
Who shot the video?!
If it’s one of the rednecks’ pals/family, I’d like to hear their purpose in filming.


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It looked like a dash cam. Don't know if they just kind of came upon it or of they were connected somehow. The lack of verbal reaction was kind of weird.

According to the DA letter, it was Bryan Williams or William Bryan, a friend of Cletus'.

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Sad thing is, if the video wasn't released, I would bet there would never be any arrests and the sacks and hulks of the world would give the shooter the benefit of the doubt until the end of time.

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5 minutes ago, otisdog said:

Has there been arrests?

No arrests and no possibility of a grand jury until mid June. Great justice system we have. Unless it was two black guys shooting a white jogger. Then I'm sure they'd kick it up.

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6 minutes ago, otisdog said:

Has there been arrests?

There have not.  The current DA in charge is taking it before a grand jury soon.

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1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

Sad thing is, if the video wasn't released, I would bet there would never be any arrests and the sacks and hulks of the world would give the shooter the benefit of the doubt until the end of time.

Yeah, imagine that.  Waiting to see what evidence is available for judging someone as a murderous racist.  Fucking terrible practice.  Can’t virtue signal as early on.  

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2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Yeah, imagine that.  Waiting to see what evidence is available for judging someone as a murderous racist.  Fucking terrible practice.  Can’t virtue signal as early on.  

Fair enough. Also I didn't see your posts after the video was posted initially, so withdrawn.

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4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Yeah, imagine that.  Waiting to see what evidence is available for judging someone as a murderous racist.  Fucking terrible practice.  Can’t virtue signal as early on.  

Well, there is also the flip side of that. Waiting until the evidence comes up to repeat the word "clearly" and use half-wit reasoning to say this was justifiable.  I mean, we have it in writing on an official letterhead.  Is that some sort of reverse virtue signaling?

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When I was in 1st grade they taught us about MLK, and about this thing that used to happen in our country called "racism". But then MLK came along, and now blacks, and whites, and mexicans can all go to school together, and now racism is a thing of the past. What a load of shit that turned out to be.

Yeah, institutionalized racism is (mostly) a thing of the past in this country, but hatred and ignorance, and a pathetic desire to feel important by carrying/using firearms on those you hate are still very much alive and active, and have been my entire life. From Rodney King, to James Byrd, to Trayvon Martin, to this case, my life has seen a never-ending parade of whites being scared of/attacking/killing blacks, and often times getting away with it, even when there's no doubt that it was a straight up murder. 

With that said, only a small portion of our population feel/practice this blatant, overt, truly hateful racism. A much bigger problem (in a numbers sense) are the scores of white people who, while not racist themselves, somehow cannot understand or accept that being black in America is absolutely not the same as being white. People with no hatred of other races, people with truly benign-good intentions, who somehow cannot wrap their heads around the concept that a black person's world view and experiences might not analogous to theirs because of their race. This leads these people to do seemingly-benign-but-actually-harmful things like question/doubt the veracity of the whole "this would be different if the skin colors were switched" arguments, or to say, "he simply should just have done this (because i would have done that)", or worse, to even doubt that that true hatred and racism like this still exists all over this country. 

That video is vile. These people are vile. Their intentions were vile, and the fact that they've (to this point) gotten away with cold-blooded murder scott free *should* be unthinkable, but instead is sadly typical of American justice, particularly in the south. To be honest i'm surprised that we aren't seeing mini race wars popping up all over the place with shit like this being as prevalent as it is. Fuck man. I really can't wrap my head around how human beings can be so disgusting sometimes, and while I hope that justice ultimately prevails in this case, I will still hang my head in shame and bewilderment, knowing that this type of thing will continue to happen for as long as I live.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Yeah, imagine that.  Waiting to see what evidence is available for judging someone as a murderous racist.  Fucking terrible practice.  Can’t virtue signal as early on.  

shut the fuck up with this "virtue signaling" bullshit. you're inserting your own dumbass fucking narrative where it doesn't belong because you're a one-note poster who can't get enough of repeating himself. what part of "two guys saw an unarmed young man jogging by, grabbed their guns, chased him down in their truck, and then shot the unarmed man to death" requires video footage for us to realize that the entire situation is fucked? it has nothing to do with your embarrassing, narrow minded, self righteous bullshit about "snowflakes" or "virtue signaling", you fucking troll. 

Edited by Goo Punch

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Posted (edited)

That is murder.  The victim clearly was wearing jogging attire and was in fact jogging.  The murderer(s) did not display fear for their lives as they were waiting for the victim with weapon in hand.  As the victim approached he had reason to believe he was being attacked, the attackers were not uniformed officers even if they said they were, since they brandished a weapon.  Upon seeing this the victim firstly attempted to avert the attacker by running away from him and putting a truck between them.   Only after being pursued to the front of the truck, the victim rightly if not mistakenly, charged his attacker to defend himself.  At that time the victim was shot at, then murdered.  

Edited by RollLeft

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Posted (edited)

also, any kind of talk along the lines of "snowflakes" and "virtue signaling", and any of the other cutesy terms that these room temperature IQ-having, never-not-talking-politics asshats love to use so much need to stay in the cloak room where that retarded, combative shit belongs. anyone using that kind of vernacular has zero intentions of having a sincere conversation, and only wants to start a pissing match with whichever side of the aisle they don't like. shit is fucking childish and embarrassing. keep that shit on facebook or CR, whichever retarded echo chamber you prefer. 

Edited by Goo Punch

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Ambush Murder.

He tries to avoid them by running around the truck away from the driver but is shot at from point blank range as he goes around the right side.  Cletus Jr pursued him as he tried to avoid him and closed range and fired at point blank.  At that point what do you do?  There is no escape because the range is closed so you turn your back and get shot in the back or wrestle the shotgun and keep the muzzle pointed away from you which he successfully did on the second shot. 

Only problem with that is Pops had a clear shot from behind while he was trying to not get shot from the front.

Ambush.

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It absolutely was an ambush. Some people are asking why he kept running forward, forgetting the people driving up behind him/filming were friends of the shooter. He had nowhere to go.

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Racially motivated murder 

there was no crime being committed to justify a citizens arrest 

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10 hours ago, formermav43 said:

1 is really unbelievable. You don’t understand why someone might try to charge someone brandishing a weapon after he’s been shot? I’d say when the fight-or-flight response kicked in, he calculated his odds of wrestling it away were better than outrunning a bullet. You’re essentially asking why he didn’t just stand there and allow them to pump him full of lead.

Yeah, thats where I'm at although I havent seen any of the video yet with broken links.  Anyone that suggests otherwise has never really felt a real fight or flight situation. It all happens instantaneously. You only get to second guess bad decisions later if you're lucky. 

 

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It looked like a dash cam. Don't know if they just kind of came upon it or of they were connected somehow. The lack of verbal reaction was kind of weird.

I don’t think it was a dash cam. The camera isn’t anchored - the driver is holding the camera.


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Yeah, imagine that.  Waiting to see what evidence is available for judging someone as a murderous racist.  Fucking terrible practice.  Can’t virtue signal as early on.  

Imagine being this stupid

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I've particularly enjoyed the implicit suggestion on here by a few posters that the victim owes the two shooters a bit of gratitude.  They could have waited until he got on the ground and tried to reason with them in order to save his own life.  They could have waited until he began to beg and debase himself on the pavement, but they didn't.  They shot him on his own two feet, so that he could go out with some dignity and honor.  But no, the victim had to charge them and attempt to wrestle away the weapon.  He should have known better and pleaded, instead he got a third and fatal round.  All this could have been avoided by knowing his place and environs and now he's dead.  But at least Cletus and Jr. didn't make him do all that subhuman stuff, they let him charge and then put him down quickly.  Some posters are right, they was right and the victim was wrong, not in terms of the murder obviously (nobody on here is suggesting that), but in how he handled himself incorrectly upon arriving at the scene.  There's several posts about questioning why he acted so irrationally, but of course those will be conveniently glossed over.  What a wonderfully revealing thread. 

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