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23 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

I'm wondering who here opposes this and why. I genuinely would like to understand why anyone would have an issue mail-in voting. Seriously, convince me. Good luck and godspeed.

Well you see we want people to vote, but only “certain” people.  Mainly people who support our team and not the other team.  Yes democracy relies on an active voting populous, but we cannot rely on that anymore to result in the “right” outcome.  Sure its a bit distasteful to suppress others votes but the ends truly justify the means.  

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When you go in to vote, they have a record of if you were sent a VBM ballot, and if it has been returned and counted.   It pops up when the check your ID versus your address and name.  They are also checking to make sure you are in the right polling place for your residence. 

If a voter decides to vote in person but was sent a VBM ballot, then they must bring in that ballot and surrender it to VBM.   Where the fraud could be worst is having someone set up at the local bar and buy votes, having the voter fill out the ballot and sign accordingly to the buyer's wishes.   But that goes on now anyway with walk in voting.  But more bang for buck when the buyer actually sees the ballot completed.  

But that would probably be more likely in local races.  

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3 hours ago, Horn Dog said:

Well you see we want people to vote, but only “certain” people.  Mainly people who support our team and not the other team.  Yes democracy relies on an active voting populous, but we cannot rely on that anymore to result in the “right” outcome.  Sure its a bit distasteful to suppress others votes but the ends truly justify the means.  

Polling taxes to a T.  Only property owners were intelligent enough to cast the proper votes.  Excuse me, MALE property owners.   WHITE MALE property owners.  

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1 hour ago, pyrohornIII said:

But that would probably be more likely in local races.  

pay someone at a nursing home to tell you who never has visitors. request mail in ballots for them, collect and return. it doesn't take much to get a nursing home worker to buy in.

in a local race (the primaries are usually the target here) 100 or so votes can swing a primary. also, no one gives a fuck about mail in ballots during the primaries. that's where the bulk of mail in ballot fraud occurs. if you live in a smaller county, go look at primary results and notice how many races could be flipped with 100 to 250 votes. in particular, look at the county commissioner races. those cats have huge budgets / contracts to give out.  

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You are right.  But a lot of smaller counties don't have nursing homes, or if they do, they're not overly large.  We don't have one.  But you make a good point.  Thanks for bringing it up.  

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Posted (edited)

Id be curious to see the mail in ballot for the primaries v the general election

lot of Texas elections are decided in the primary. D and R’s 

Edited by tx 3 putt

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On 5/23/2020 at 5:50 PM, pyrohornIII said:

When you go in to vote, they have a record of if you were sent a VBM ballot, and if it has been returned and counted.   It pops up when the check your ID versus your address and name.  They are also checking to make sure you are in the right polling place for your residence. 

If a voter decides to vote in person but was sent a VBM ballot, then they must bring in that ballot and surrender it to VBM.   Where the fraud could be worst is having someone set up at the local bar and buy votes, having the voter fill out the ballot and sign accordingly to the buyer's wishes.   But that goes on now anyway with walk in voting.  But more bang for buck when the buyer actually sees the ballot completed.  

But that would probably be more likely in local races.  

Thanks, this is the information I was looking for earlier. Makes sense.

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I don’t get it.  AZ has had vote by mail for years.  Vote.  Sign.  Mail.  Check online that it’s been received.  

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And AZ will probably go real blue this year, being another poster child in the fight against VBM wages by the Red side.  Good for you and your state.

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On 5/24/2020 at 9:28 PM, Cairn Horn88 said:

So, RNC suing California regarding mail-in voting.  

lol, they scared.

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Posted (edited)

Um,  Oregon has had VBM for 2 decades.  With no problems.  You have a real life functioning example of how well it works.

So either it’s not a problem,  or you're worried it might yield valid results you don’t like.  Which means you don’t actually support the concept of democracy.  You just support your side winning.

Edited by Bateshorn

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It's weird that one of the go to lines from some anti-mail in GOP rank and file has been something like, "I have family that fought and die for our right to vote." Who's stopping anyone from voting though!?

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There definitely are fraud risks with VBM like we saw in NC where someone collects the ballots and alters them. I don't know a good control for that outside of the fear of very strong mandatory jail sentences. If someone intercepts the blank ballot or receives the completed ballot unsealed, I don't see how you prevent someone from committing fraud. Maybe there are controls to catch the fact that something illegal occurred it's impossible to fully prevent with paper ballots.

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We VBM here in Washington, and it works pretty seamlessly...

The only thing I wish would change is that somehow once your ballot had been received you stop getting political ads on your TV and radio.

In 2018 I voted the same day I got the ballot and then had to put up with another month or so of bullshit that somehow applied to me even less than before.

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Since Trump likes to compare himself to Lincoln, would this be a good time to discuss the open and vast polling stations that were around under Lincoln?  Or should we discuss how many people voted for Lincoln by mail, thus preserving the Republic?  

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On 5/26/2020 at 4:38 PM, NWBuck said:

We VBM here in Washington, and it works pretty seamlessly...

The only thing I wish would change is that somehow once your ballot had been received you stop getting political ads on your TV and radio.

In 2018 I voted the same day I got the ballot and then had to put up with another month or so of bullshit that somehow applied to me even less than before.

Yup.  We just had the first VBM election in NJ. And, the potential problems with VBM are the opposite of what the GOP is frothing over.  The two main issues were (1) delays in mail delivery due to Covid and (2) signature matching with people not necessarily finding out if their signatures didn't match--and with many of us having signed our voter registrations over a decade ago there are valid reasons why signatures may be deemed not to match.

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1 hour ago, lemonlime said:

Yup.  We just had the first VBM election in NJ. And, the potential problems with VBM are the opposite of what the GOP is frothing over.  The two main issues were (1) delays in mail delivery due to Covid and (2) signature matching with people not necessarily finding out if their signatures didn't match--and with many of us having signed our voter registrations over a decade ago there are valid reasons why signatures may be deemed not to match.

Is signature the only way to verify?  Seems like SSN or something should be on there.  Not that I want to send my SSN through the mail that badly.

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Just now, Biff Tannen said:

Is signature the only way to verify?  Seems like SSN or something should be on there.  Not that I want to send my SSN through the mail that badly.

You sign the envelope.  And each envelope has a bar code such that each voter can only send one ballot back.  And then they verify the signature when the envelope and ballot are received.  There were more than a few votes thrown out for signature not matching, most of which was likely due to people signing the registration a long time ago, name changes (getting married/divorced), etc.

It seems like at the least there needs to be a streamlined way to notify the voter of the signature mismatch and an easy system to correct it such as going in person and showing ID.

It's apparent that the GOP has not yet fully considered the possibilities to steal an election by getting rid of ethnic sounding names on signature grounds.

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I have no doubt Republicans oppose VBM.......I also have no doubt they’ll find an advantage to win if we go that route. 
 

Please move to online voting! It’s insane how this country constantly has to be forced into progress.

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On 5/24/2020 at 7:28 PM, Cairn Horn88 said:

So, RNC suing California regarding mail-in voting.  

I've heard that Issa is also suing.  

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1 hour ago, Revolution512 said:

It’s insane how this country constantly has to be forced into progress.

100 years between Emancipation Proclamation and Civil Rights out front should have told ya.

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From page 23 in their ruling, reposting from the Suppression thread.

https://www.txcourts.gov/media/1446711/200394.pdf

 

The State has conceded that Respondents have no discretion to do anything but determine whether the voter is entitled to vote by mail and process the application accordingly.” The State acknowledges that the Election Code does not require election clerks to “investigate each applicant’s disability.” Indeed, the Legislature rejected the requirement of a physician’s proof of disability for mail-in voting applications when it amended the Election Code in 1981.And the application form provided by the Secretary of State requires only that voters check a box indicating  whether the reason seeking a ballot by mail is a disability. The voter is not instructed to declare the nature of the underlying disability.The elected officials have placed in the hands of the voter the determination of whether in-person voting will cause a likelihood of injury due to a physical condition. The respondents do not have a ministerial duty, reviewable by mandamus, to look beyond the application to vote by mail. Moreover, while the State has alleged that the Clerks are accepting “improper application,” there is no evidence in the record that any has accepted a faulty application.

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On 5/26/2020 at 3:46 PM, Nice Guy Eddie said:

There definitely are fraud risks with VBM like we saw in NC where someone collects the ballots and alters them. I don't know a good control for that outside of the fear of very strong mandatory jail sentences. If someone intercepts the blank ballot or receives the completed ballot unsealed, I don't see how you prevent someone from committing fraud. Maybe there are controls to catch the fact that something illegal occurred it's impossible to fully prevent with paper ballots.

There are not.  That is a one off example that was quickly ascertained and had minimal affect on the outcome of the election. The violators were caught and prosecuted. 

 

OTOH, multiple states VBM, including Oregon, Utah, and Washington. Instances of fraud are nonexistent over multiple elections.  You are using an outlier to tarnish a proven and workable system

On 5/26/2020 at 3:46 PM, Nice Guy Eddie said:

 

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1 hour ago, StassneyHorn said:

From page 23 in their ruling, reposting from the Suppression thread.

https://www.txcourts.gov/media/1446711/200394.pdf

 

The State has conceded that Respondents have no discretion to do anything but determine whether the voter is entitled to vote by mail and process the application accordingly.” The State acknowledges that the Election Code does not require election clerks to “investigate each applicant’s disability.” Indeed, the Legislature rejected the requirement of a physician’s proof of disability for mail-in voting applications when it amended the Election Code in 1981.And the application form provided by the Secretary of State requires only that voters check a box indicating  whether the reason seeking a ballot by mail is a disability. The voter is not instructed to declare the nature of the underlying disability.The elected officials have placed in the hands of the voter the determination of whether in-person voting will cause a likelihood of injury due to a physical condition. The respondents do not have a ministerial duty, reviewable by mandamus, to look beyond the application to vote by mail. Moreover, while the State has alleged that the Clerks are accepting “improper application,” there is no evidence in the record that any has accepted a faulty application.

Ok, so just check the box and the Supreme Court can fuck itself?

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That’s how I interpret my Allergies disability. Now, they’ll never know my disability is Allergies, because I don’t have to actually disclose what my disability is.

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Today's mail had an application for a mail in ballot. Haven't heard one warning from Dotard about illegal voting in Kansas, but then it's a guaranteed red state so that's ok. 

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Honestly, it’s rare that a judicial decision really pisses me off.

But holding that lack of COVID immunity isn’t a disability to merit a mail-in ballot a week after conducting oral argument in the case by Zoom—yeah, that did the trick.

I just gave a bunch of money to the Democrats running for SCOTX. I hope others do the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Posted (edited)
On 5/26/2020 at 3:16 PM, YChang said:

It's weird that one of the go to lines from some anti-mail in GOP rank and file has been something like, "I have family that fought and die for our right to vote." Who's stopping anyone from voting though!?

Some republicans are spending money for voter intimidation and vote by mail sidesteps this and renders it a wasted expense. 

Edited by Mdhorn

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He’s fine with people having to decide whether we vote or get sick. 

 

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1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:


Honestly, it’s rare that a judicial decision really pisses me off.

But holding that lack of COVID immunity isn’t a disability to merit a mail-in ballot a week after conducting oral argument in the case by Zoom—yeah, that did the trick.

I just gave a bunch of money to the Democrats running for SCOTX. I hope others do the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is what really pisses me off about this whole shitshow.  that I can't vote by mail if I choose but dear leader and his family circus can is bullshit.  

 

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25 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

You can vote by mail. 

Not in Texas.

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8 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

Not in Texas.

Yes you can, here’s the application. Read between the lines of what the court says and what the those in charge of administering can do. They cannot verify a disability or illness, only the voter can determine that.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/05/27/texas-vote-by-mail-coronavirus/

https://webservices.sos.state.tx.us/forms/5-15f.pdf

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, StassneyHorn said:

Yes you can, here’s the application. Read between the lines of what the court says and what the those in charge of administering can do. They cannot verify a disability or illness, only the voter can determine that.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/05/27/texas-vote-by-mail-coronavirus/

https://webservices.sos.state.tx.us/forms/5-15f.pdf

 

Not to mention that one of the reasons is Expected absence from the county.  Now this reason is good for only 1 election at a time but this is impossible to deny. You actually don't have to be absent, just expect to be absence.  

This is becoming more of a political battle and not legal. Dems wants to say the GOP doesn't care about your health and want to limit the turnout. GOP will say they want to eliminate voter fraud. In both cases, it increases donations and fires up the base.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie

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Yea I’m not going to pretend to be an expert by any means on this, but it has been fascinating to see just how useless these restrictions are and the lack of ability to enforce them has been exposed in the process.

Not having to list your disability or illness, and putting it up to the voter to decide if it falls under their interpretation of the rules is just funny. Self perceived chronic back, leg, foot, arm pain can be lumped in as any disability that will be heightened by going to and standing in line outside/inside.

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On 5/22/2020 at 2:24 PM, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

I'm wondering who here opposes this and why. I genuinely would like to understand why anyone would have an issue mail-in voting. Seriously, convince me. Good luck and godspeed.

My thoughts always come down to:

If there are problems with mail in voting, then let's either:
A) Get rid of it altogether.
B) Fix those issues and expand it to everyone.

At this point, I really don't care which way we go, but to argue that mail in voting is bad (as some now do) but then allow it to continue for military, handicapped, long term travellers, and the elderly, is insane. It's either good or bad, you can't have it be both ways.

I have a feeling getting rid of the elderly and military voting by mail may take away a handful of red votes, so I can see why they aren't for getting rid of it. But the cognitive dissonance is glaring.

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On 5/24/2020 at 9:19 AM, HenryJames said:

 

I agree. We need to get rid of it altogether.

I just don't think that's gonna go the way he wants.

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Think he's cool not allowing the military to vote by mail?

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Yes, in theory someone could steal a ballot in the mail and I suppose someone could be forced to sign a ballot in which they disagree with the vote. BUT how are thousands of forgeries printed? Are some counties/states just sending out unidentified ballots? I would be shocked if that was used in any precinct unless you're talking about a remote Alaskan town of 15 people. 

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You'd think Dan Patrick would be fine with mailing in a ballot.  He's been mailing in his sexuality for 50 years.  

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mpu


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