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Summer riots/protests damage & tactics documentation thread (no politics, please)

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


I am absolutely saying that nonviolence doesn’t work...but let me explain that a bit. Nonviolence by the protesters eventually works....because of the violence committed by the opposition. Civil rights marches didn’t do shit....images of hoses and dogs being turned on marchers did. Birmingham strikes did little...four murdered little girls changed a lot.

Society doesn’t change until it is made to feel very, very uncomfortable.

I’ve gone on record around here that women, children, and clergy need to be on the front lines, peacefully....where the police will beat, shoot, and gas them.

I’m also saying that most all of the folks who are criticizing the movement for violence criticized it before violence, too. They aren’t against violence (note that they’re not upset about the cops shooting people with their hands up in the face - violence is awesome...when it’s their guys committing it). They’re against the cause, and violence gives them cover to characterize their stance as moral. But take away the violence, and they’ll find another reason. I mean, Kapernick was practically spitting in the faces of our brave troops! (Even though a veteran and longhorn suggested kneeling as a protest to him).

Go dig through the posts of the loudest voices around here decrying the violence. You’ll see most of them as the loudest critics of nonviolent protests and statements over the years. There’s only one thing that minorities and less-favored folks can do to make them happy: shut up, and take your beating and fucking with a smile.

Understandably, some folks have said “fuck that.” Some of them have even exploded into violence. Maybe we shouldn’t tell people to shut the fuck up and take it for decades - that tends to lead to civil unrest.

I can tell you that here in NYC, people are tired of this.  The protests the first couple of weeks, even through the massive looting that occurred that absolutely were not related to the protests but used the protests for cover, were supported by a vast majority of New Yorkers.  But as things have devolved here, support is at an all time low.  I think the thing that irritates me the most, is those that are out there "protesting" probably won't even show up and vote.  So yeah, fuck them for making the streets of New York less safe for everyone, especially given what this city has gone through.

Edited by PenelopeWitherspoon

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9 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


I am absolutely saying that nonviolence doesn’t work...but let me explain that a bit. Nonviolence by the protesters eventually works....because of the violence committed by the opposition. Civil rights marches didn’t do shit....images of hoses and dogs being turned on marchers did. Birmingham strikes did little...four murdered little girls changed a lot.

Society doesn’t change until it is made to feel very, very uncomfortable.

I’ve gone on record around here that women, children, and clergy need to be on the front lines, peacefully....where the police will beat, shoot, and gas them.
 

Right...the public was made very painfully aware of the violence being perpetrated by the "oppressors" against the victims.  I wasn't alive for it, but I know that when I saw the images of the dogs and water hoses being used on people I was horrified.  I think a lot of people felt the same way seeing the images of George Floyd being flat out murdered.  Now they see what is going on and that momentum is gone.  I hope Floyd didn't die for nothing, but I'm not very encouraged right now. 

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3 minutes ago, Hate said:

Now they see what is going on and that momentum is gone.

Is there any evidence at all behind this statement?

The polling I see says otherwise.

The video of Austin PD murdering a man without repercussions is morally worse than all of the property destruction you can find and the mishandling of COVID has destroyed more businesses and jobs than the protesters could ever dream of.

The actual reality of the situation is that you have tens of thousands of extremely peaceful, generous, and kind protesters every day with a few rioters thrown in, and even many of those aren't actually anti-racism protesters, but white supremacists trying to discredit the protests.

Brisket points to something important and it's worth thinking about how eager people are to revert to their priors. If someone sees multiple angles of Austin PD murdering Michael Ramos in cold blood on video and then sees pictures of smashed windows and graffiti and thinks, "Man, those smashed windows and graffiti are terrible!" then that person's priors are constantly going to pull them away from the issues underlying the protests.

So when you say "the public was made very painfully aware of the violence being perpetrated by the "oppressors" against the victims" that's STILL the case. If you are someone who is looking for injustice by the state towards citizens you're being shown it. Your choice to morally prioritize the windows at Whole Foods and the purity of the surfaces at a courthouse is what blinds you to what you claim the civil rights movement of John Lewis revealed but is being obscured now.

And again, what you're experiencing internally isn't necessarily reflective of the nation as a whole.

 

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19 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I can tell you that here in NYC, people are tired of this.  The protests the first couple of weeks, even through the massive looting that occurred that absolutely were not related to the protests but used the protests for cover, were supported by a vast majority of New Yorkers.  But as things have devolved here, support is at an all time low.  I think the thing that irritates me the most, is those that are out there "protesting" probably won't even show up and vote.  So yeah, fuck them for making the streets of New York less safe for everyone, especially given what this city has gone through.

vote?...voting is for saps, boomers, and union workers

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

 


That’s bullshit. Plenty of posters here, myself included, are and have been vocal opponents of police violence and also opponents of useless violent protests just for the sake of committing random acts of violence. I couldn’t give a shit if anyone wants to kneel during the national anthem, but burning shit just to burn shit needs to stop.

 

This is where I am.  I support peaceful protests.  Hell, I detest the police.  I abhor racism of all kinds.  I think everybody should fucking get along, treat others as you would want to be treated, and if you cannot say something nice, don't say anything at all (all these are lessons people seem to not be teaching their children anymore).

However, the shitheads in NYC are just being assholes at this point.  Some are foregoing masks (still a pandemic, dickheads) and many are causing mayhem for the sake of mayhem.  They remind me of the anarchists that co-opted the yellow vest protests in Paris.  They give no shits.  They just want to watch the world burn.  THAT is causing support to wane.

Edited by PenelopeWitherspoon

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Posted (edited)

Brisket. If I am hearing you, and following your logic:

Powerful people don't care about you/your rights when you protest non-violently in the 1950's/60's. Check

Powerful People will kinda care when children are attacked by grown men with dogs and water hose in the 1960's. Check

Things kinda sorta, incrementally, barely, sometimes get better between 1960 and 2020. Check

Powerful people don't care about you/your rights when you protest non-violently in the 2010's/20's. Check.

Powerful people don't care about you/your rights when you protest violently in 2020. Check

--

What's the next step? What's the escalation path? You seem to be condoning this escalating behavior of turning up the heat until you get the responses you want, so I'll ask you. Where does this end? Because we aren't going to wake up in a day or week or year and have equality and diversity and inclusion, figuratively overnight.

Edited by Rougarou

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There were massive riots during the Civil Rights movement, so the recasting of that era as an era of anti-racism protesters being peaceful victims only is is one of historical ignorance or, more likely, purposeful frame-shifting.

Look up the 12th Street Scene from the Detroit race riots of the late 1960s. 40+ people died in those riots. The national guard was called out.

Here's a misunderstood reality of the moment: Portland protesters are non-violent. 99% of them are peaceful/non-violent, but even the 1% are non-peaceful/non-violent.

We're seeing a lot of property damage, but property damage isn't violence. This is legally true and morally true as well (but debatable, I guess, unlike the legal reality). Fireworks, paint, and cans of beans are the sum total of the "violence" Portland's protesters have been accused of. After 2+ months of nightly protests, often with protesters numbering in the tens of thousands, they have killed ZERO and injured fewer than 10.

So when the emotional dander is raised it is literally just about the destruction of property.

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Posted (edited)

I think everyone most people here are roundly against turning up the heat. There are widely different views on who is responsible for turning up the heat and who thus far has been increasing the heat level. But that would lead to a discussion about the protests and their underlying causes rather than the documentation/no politics purpose of this thread.

Here's another protest. Apologies for the political language in the tweet, I suspect that the reference to Louie Gohmert is at least somewhat speculative on the part of his opponent. This is in Tyler, where a "Back The Blue" protests was planned to coincide with a "Protest for Portland" rally. It is nice that it appears someone is trying to stop the gentleman in the hat from choking out the gentleman in the blue shirt.

 

Edited by Celery Man

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1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

There were massive riots during the Civil Rights movement, so the recasting of that era as an era of anti-racism protesters being peaceful victims only is is one of historical ignorance or, more likely, purposeful frame-shifting.

Look up the 12th Street Scene from the Detroit race riots of the late 1960s. 40+ people died in those riots. The national guard was called out.

Here's a misunderstood reality of the moment: Portland protesters are non-violent. 99% of them are peaceful/non-violent, but even the 1% are non-peaceful/non-violent.

We're seeing a lot of property damage, but property damage isn't violence. This is legally true and morally true as well (but debatable, I guess, unlike the legal reality). Fireworks, paint, and cans of beans are the sum total of the "violence" Portland's protesters have been accused of. After 2+ months of nightly protests, often with protesters numbering in the tens of thousands, they have killed ZERO and injured fewer than 10.

So when the emotional dander is raised it is literally just about the destruction of property.

Sorry, wasn't trying to reframe or anything like that. Was just responding to Brisket's line of thinking, which I'm trying to follow and think is super interesting.

So what you are saying is conflicting with what Brisket is saying in that your position is that we are still in the "non-violent protesting, but nobody in power or position cares that much" and Brisket thinks we are in the "violent protesting because non-violence doesn't work, and nobody in power or position seems to care that much".

So the question still remains; what is the escalation path to getting to the desired end result. Every conflict negotiation (which this stuff 100% is) is about getting to what you want from someone who doesn't necessarily want to give you exactly what you want.

I'm curious because it sounds like Brisket is supporting a logical path that is going to end up in very dark, very sad place for a lot of folks and I'm curious if that's just part of the plan. Have to break a few eggs to make the omelette theory, and all of that.

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6 hours ago, MillerEP said:

 

pretty lucky that didn't cascade into something bigger...

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42 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

This is where I am.  I support peaceful protests.  Hell, I detest the police.  I abhor racism of all kinds.  I think everybody should fucking get along, treat others as you would want to be treated, and if you cannot say something nice, don't say anything at all (all these are lessons people seem to not be teaching their children anymore).

However, the shitheads in NYC are just being assholes at this point.  Some are foregoing masks (still a pandemic, dickheads) and many are causing mayhem for the sake of mayhem.  They remind me of the anarchists that co-opted the yellow vest protests in Paris.  They give no shits.  They just want to watch the world burn.  THAT is causing support to wane.

this is what happens when you let shitheads be assholes with zero repercussions.

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Posted (edited)

Well,  I don't know how political or not this is, but we've had rioting, and destruction of private property in Richmond, Va. for going on 2 months now.  The  mayor hasn't done jack shit to stop it, and fired a brand new police chief who said we're going to stop the rioting (after the long standing chief had just "resigned") .

I've taken my studio apart 2x now because the protests were going to be in my area.  There was planned Vandalism, and destruction of property (flyers were being passed out all week calling for violence ) all around my studio, and neighborhood Saturday night in to Sunday  .

I'm done, and am probably moving out. I'd just recently re upped for 2 more years on my lease. Not sure the ramifications of leaving, but I'm not risking my studio's contents, or my business to these mother fucking assholes again. 

 Property values have allegedly dropped 20% in the city, and realtors are telling me they're seeing a huge up tick in contacts from city residents looking to move out to the suburbs into the surrounding counties, leaving the city, in just the last 30 days.

Fuck these losers destroying people's lives, businesses, and urban neighborhoods for the sake of violence.  Yeah your cause isn't being  helped with that.

Edited by Onboard 2.0

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5 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Here's a misunderstood reality of the moment: Portland protesters are non-violent. 99% of them are peaceful/non-violent, but even the 1% are non-peaceful/non-violent.

We're seeing a lot of property damage, but property damage isn't violence. This is legally true and morally true as well (but debatable, I guess, unlike the legal reality). Fireworks, paint, and cans of beans are the sum total of the "violence" Portland's protesters have been accused of. After 2+ months of nightly protests, often with protesters numbering in the tens of thousands, they have killed ZERO and injured fewer than 10.

So when the emotional dander is raised it is literally just about the destruction of property.

Over the previous 24 hours, such assaults have resulted in at least 14 federal officers injured.“

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/26/portland-riots-read-out-july-26

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8 hours ago, Celery Man said:

I think everyone most people here are roundly against turning up the heat. There are widely different views on who is responsible for turning up the heat and who thus far has been increasing the heat level. But that would lead to a discussion about the protests and their underlying causes rather than the documentation/no politics purpose of this thread.

Here's another protest. Apologies for the political language in the tweet, I suspect that the reference to Louie Gohmert is at least somewhat speculative on the part of his opponent. This is in Tyler, where a "Back The Blue" protests was planned to coincide with a "Protest for Portland" rally. It is nice that it appears someone is trying to stop the gentleman in the hat from choking out the gentleman in the blue shirt.

 

Aren't hands around the neck, not on the chin, involved in choking?

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Posted (edited)

image.png?w=500&c=1

I guess all of the "it's one thing to know your role and protest quietly and in designated areas, it's another to jaywalk!" crowd got a different version of American History in school than I did.

 

Edited by BradInATX

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2 minutes ago, landman said:

Aren't hands around the neck, not on the chin, involved in choking?

His right arm appears to be pressing against the neck.  Regardless that’s assault and probably felony assault.  Violence.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, MillerEP said:

were demanding they be given Texas

source.gif

 

 

Edited by BabaYaga

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Posted (edited)

Doused this guy in orange paintImageCommonly thrown items:

ImageImage

Image

 

Briefing inside the courthouse, I saw a tweet (so not sure if its real or not) where they determined they won't go outside the fence anymore, but stay inside and let the Portland PD handle the outside. 

image.thumb.png.40313001404555268e6fdee2eceb4732.png

Image

 

Edited by MillerEP

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9 hours ago, Rougarou said:

Brisket. If I am hearing you, and following your logic:

Powerful people don't care about you/your rights when you protest non-violently in the 1950's/60's. Check

Powerful People will kinda care when children are attacked by grown men with dogs and water hose in the 1960's. Check

Things kinda sorta, incrementally, barely, sometimes get better between 1960 and 2020. Check

Powerful people don't care about you/your rights when you protest non-violently in the 2010's/20's. Check.

Powerful people don't care about you/your rights when you protest violently in 2020. Check

--

What's the next step? What's the escalation path? You seem to be condoning this escalating behavior of turning up the heat until you get the responses you want, so I'll ask you. Where does this end? Because we aren't going to wake up in a day or week or year and have equality and diversity and inclusion, figuratively overnight.

 

9 hours ago, Rougarou said:

Sorry, wasn't trying to reframe or anything like that. Was just responding to Brisket's line of thinking, which I'm trying to follow and think is super interesting.

So what you are saying is conflicting with what Brisket is saying in that your position is that we are still in the "non-violent protesting, but nobody in power or position cares that much" and Brisket thinks we are in the "violent protesting because non-violence doesn't work, and nobody in power or position seems to care that much".

So the question still remains; what is the escalation path to getting to the desired end result. Every conflict negotiation (which this stuff 100% is) is about getting to what you want from someone who doesn't necessarily want to give you exactly what you want.

I'm curious because it sounds like Brisket is supporting a logical path that is going to end up in very dark, very sad place for a lot of folks and I'm curious if that's just part of the plan. Have to break a few eggs to make the omelette theory, and all of that.

Good questions.  And let me be clear - I am NOT condoning violence.  What I'm offering is an observation about the inevitability of human nature.

The authorities are full of Bull Connors.  Always have been, and still are today.  So, even peaceful protests, given any amount of time, will be met with disproportionate and brute force from the "let's crack some fucking skulls!" crowd of cops and their fanboys.  That is inevitable.  It will happen.  It HAS happened, numerous times, all over the country, in the past few weeks.

Also, when you tell the people "shut up and fuck off" no matter what they do -- when they kneel, when they march, when they simply ask their elected representatives to acknowledge that police abuse and violence is a problem -- human frustration WILL boil over.  Not for all of them -- actually, for very few of them.  But it WILL happen.  If you want riots and property destruction to happen, perhaps the most sure-fire path is to tell the people to fuck off.  We've spent decades telling the people that.  They've tried hard, in recent years, to get society and the government to acknowledge the problem.  They have been repeatedly told to fuck off.  So, some of them are tossing rocks and lighting fires.  It was inevitable.

And yes....we're in a very dark, very sad place.  Wouldn't it be amazing if our society and government would acknowledge clear problems and actually work to fix them?  Wouldn't it be amazing if we met nonviolent protests with real dialogue, and restraint from weaponized authorities?  Yeah, peace harmony, buy the world a Coke, all that bullshit.  Nice dream.

I'm just observing the way things work.  This is how this shit shakes out, always, because society will not change until it is made to feel very, very uncomfortable.  I wish it was otherwise.  I really, really do.  But time after time, we see that it ain't. 

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15 hours ago, blacklab said:

You can post videos, some of which are inside tweets that have other content.

Post a tweet that's all political content with a random static image, you're taking a day off like elguapo is

 

I posted a tweet that contained a news article, not a random static image, so you can fuck right off, liar.

 

Apparently it's only ok to posts tweets in this thread that have other content if the tweet contains a viewpoint that @blacklab agrees with. The hypocrisy in the moderation of this board is spectacular.

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Yeah, this isn't a thread for news articles.

It's a thread for videos and pictures of the protests

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2 minutes ago, blacklab said:

Yeah, this isn't a thread for news articles.

It's a thread for videos and pictures of the protests

Ah so NO news articles allowed in a thread on the board that is supposed to be dedicated to news topics. Makes perfect sense.

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4 minutes ago, blacklab said:

Yeah, this isn't a thread for news articles.

It's a thread for videos and pictures of the protests

Also, why'd you lie about the content of my post?

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5 minutes ago, blacklab said:

Yeah, this isn't a thread for news articles.

It's a thread for videos and pictures of the protests

I mean you could have come out with "elguapo is taking a day off because he posted a news article and I just arbitrarily decided that those aren't allowed in this thread", but instead you had to lie that my post contained a random static image? Get your story straight yo.

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9 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

However, the shitheads in NYC are just being assholes at this point.  Some are foregoing masks (still a pandemic, dickheads) and many are causing mayhem for the sake of mayhem

...you talking cops or protesters here?

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5 minutes ago, elguapo said:

I mean you could have come out with "elguapo is taking a day off because he posted a news article and I just arbitrarily decided that those aren't allowed in this thread", but instead you had to lie that my post contained a random static image? Get your story straight yo.

6Jn4fa-6_miq-apHzyiXPCFqJduviYhooYuxs57l

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Just now, high side 3 way said:

we have never been more divided, this country is fucked

I hear there was a war that was pretty civil not too long ago.

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12 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I hear there was a war that was pretty civil not too long ago.

You have an interesting definition of “not too long ago.” Are you the same age as ArmyBrat? 

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14 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I hear there was a war that was pretty civil not too long ago.

I also red that there was some sort of scare at some point in the past as well. 

My Italian immigrant father mentioned something about it once. 

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Just now, BurntEyes said:

I also red that there was some sort of scare at some point in the past as well. 

My Italian immigrant father mentioned something about it once. 

A little visine will clear that right up.

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40 minutes ago, high side 3 way said:

we have never been more divided, this country is fucked

Not as fucked as the maker of Black Turtle Beans.   Seems like no one likes their product.    Except the unbridled animals using them as weapons.   In that case, they provide quite a punch I'm sure. 

1000.jpeg

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Just now, Wally Pryor said:

Not as fucked as the maker of Black Turtle Beans.   Seems like no one likes their product.    Except the unbridled animals using them as weapons.   In that case, they provide quite a punch I'm sure. 

1000.jpeg

Maybe they're just frustrated because they don't seem to know how to open a can of beans ?

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7 minutes ago, Wally Pryor said:

Not as fucked as the maker of Black Turtle Beans.   Seems like no one likes their product.    Except the unbridled animals using them as weapons.   In that case, they provide quite a punch I'm sure. 

1000.jpeg

Should've used Goya

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17 minutes ago, Wally Pryor said:

Not as fucked as the maker of Black Turtle Beans.   Seems like no one likes their product.    Except the unbridled animals using them as weapons.   In that case, they provide quite a punch I'm sure. 

1000.jpeg

That basket would look a lot cooler filled with Heinekens.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

There were massive riots during the Civil Rights movement, so the recasting of that era as an era of anti-racism protesters being peaceful victims only is is one of historical ignorance or, more likely, purposeful frame-shifting.

Look up the 12th Street Scene from the Detroit race riots of the late 1960s. 40+ people died in those riots. The national guard was called out.

Here's a misunderstood reality of the moment: Portland protesters are non-violent. 99% of them are peaceful/non-violent, but even the 1% are non-peaceful/non-violent.

We're seeing a lot of property damage, but property damage isn't violence. This is legally true and morally true as well (but debatable, I guess, unlike the legal reality). Fireworks, paint, and cans of beans are the sum total of the "violence" Portland's protesters have been accused of. After 2+ months of nightly protests, often with protesters numbering in the tens of thousands, they have killed ZERO and injured fewer than 10.

So when the emotional dander is raised it is literally just about the destruction of property.

You're full of shit bt.  

From the WSJ

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-weekend-of-urban-anarchy-11595890548?mod=hp_opin_pos_1

Seattle

“In all 59 officers were injured throughout the day with one of those being hospitalized,” the police department reported, and “injuries ranged from abrasions and bruising to burns and a torn meniscus.”

Portland

"Similar scenes unfolded in Portland as rioters tried to tear down the fence surrounding the Hatfield Federal Courthouse. Demonstrators threw Molotov cocktails Friday night, and after midnight one federal officer took “a direct hit from a commercial grade firework,” another “was hit with a mortar firework,” and a third “was struck in the head with a mortar firework,” the Department of Homeland Security says.DHS says some 5,000 or 6,000 returned to the scene on Sunday, threw smoke bombs and launched “a roughly 10-minute-long continuous firework attack against the courthouse.” DHS says at least 20 federal officers sustained injuries in Portland."

Edited by Iconoclast Texan

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11 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Portland protesters are non-violent. 99% of them are peaceful/non-violent, but even the 1% are non-peaceful/non-violent

84.3% of statistics are pulled out of someone's ass.

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26 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

You're full of shit bt.  

From the WSJ

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-weekend-of-urban-anarchy-11595890548?mod=hp_opin_pos_1

Seattle

“In all 59 officers were injured throughout the day with one of those being hospitalized,” the police department reported, and “injuries ranged from abrasions and bruising to burns and a torn meniscus.”

Portland

"Similar scenes unfolded in Portland as rioters tried to tear down the fence surrounding the Hatfield Federal Courthouse. Demonstrators threw Molotov cocktails Friday night, and after midnight one federal officer took “a direct hit from a commercial grade firework,” another “was hit with a mortar firework,” and a third “was struck in the head with a mortar firework,” the Department of Homeland Security says.DHS says some 5,000 or 6,000 returned to the scene on Sunday, threw smoke bombs and launched “a roughly 10-minute-long continuous firework attack against the courthouse.” DHS says at least 20 federal officers sustained injuries in Portland."

99% of the time, Jeffery Dahmer felt fine, but that 1% of the time when he got really hungry.....

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I was actually there on Friday, and I have video of what I saw if you want to go through 3 hours of mostly dark grainy footage.

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