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Captain Marvel (aka, the appetizer before Infinity War 2)


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On 9/20/2018 at 12:46 PM, elfenix said:

shit tons.  problem is that warner doesn't have the patience to go build them up.  they just want to jump to avengers without developing cap, thor, iron man, etc. marvel comics' two biggest characters are probably spiderman and wolverine.  disney didn't  have either.  so they worked with what they had. 

maybe warner's problem is that they have all the DC characters, so they naturally make movies about the biggest two.  and really, do they need to build up superman or batman at this point?  everyone knows them.  aside from comic book nerds, who knew iron man in 2007?

warner should have built up the other characters, then when it came to do justice league, just have superman and batman be there.  no one needs to be told who they are or why they're part of the superhero council. 

This is all true. 

Additions to your thoughts: Superman is a big problem. He morphed from being about Hulk strength & jumping ability to having unlimited powers, including time travel, and it makes having a compelling story difficult. Batman has been recreated so many times, nobody knows which Batman to use. Zach Snyder has totally screwed the DC Universe, because he makes great visuals, but can't create a story. Watchmen was his best, and he visually followed the comics, almost exactly. When he did Batman vs. Superman, he pulled all the fight scenes from Frank Miller's Dark Knight, and the rest of the incoherent plot was what he came up with to string the fight scenes together. 

Marvel had to recreate Spider-man after Sony false started twice. 

DC has fallen into the Watchmen/Dark Knight/Snyder trap. They're not trying to recreate the Nolan Batman series, they're going for the uber dark Watchmen stuff. It creates a bigger problem, because the classic DC characters (Batman excepted) tend towards more playfulness than the classic Marvel characters. The Nolan Batman is impossible to transfer to the rest of the DC characters, because in that world, super powers didn't exist. Superman didn't exist. The Flash could be built into a decent character. Believe it or not, so could Green Lantern. The Martian Manhunter has possibilities. Creating a decent movie about Aquaman would be like Stephen Hawking doing a 360 slam dunk. 

In addition to having an overarching plot across the movies, Marvel has several characters who never get their own movies, but create a connection between the other movies. Black Widow, Hawkeye, Nick Fury, Falcon, & others, form a glue that keeps the universe cohesive. They also recognized that certain characters, like the Hulk, are too difficult to write a movie around. 

Oh, this thread was about Captain Marvel. I'll wait and see. I think Marvel's throwing it out there, and if it hits, she becomes a more significant character. If it bombs, she becomes a background character in the future movies. Captain Marvel has been recreated several times, so it's not like they're risking a significant property. 

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Marvel/Disney don’t have the rights to Hulk solo movies.  Universal does. 
In the bonus content for Infinity War, they state that they made the decision to have Hulk hide for almost all of the movie because they didn't want to be too formulaic with Hulk tapping into his unlimited potential to save the day every time. So, they had Thanos methodically pick him apart and demoralize him before he got too wound up. Hulks powers amped up to the level where he affected other universes and realities in the comics, so maybe that will be explored in the second movie.
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4 hours ago, Eastwood said:
6 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:
Marvel/Disney don’t have the rights to Hulk solo movies.  Universal does. 

In the bonus content for Infinity War, they state that they made the decision to have Hulk hide for almost all of the movie because they didn't want to be too formulaic with Hulk tapping into his unlimited potential to save the day every time. So, they had Thanos methodically pick him apart and demoralize him before he got too wound up. Hulks powers amped up to the level where he affected other universes and realities in the comics, so maybe that will be explored in the second movie.

That makes a lot of sense.

And if Marvel had the actual rights to Hulk solo movies, I'm not sure they would have tried after the previous attempts.  Nothing against Edward Norton either, but his Hulk might not have worked as well - Mark Ruffalo really nailed it.  My dad liked the original Bill Bixby Hulk TV series, and so I got to watch it growing up, and I actually like that version of the Hulk where he went around quietly trying to help people (which they referenced in the first Avengers movie).

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On 9/23/2018 at 6:29 PM, Michael Knight said:

what climate are you referencing? It sounds like you've already made a decision on this movie based on nothing at all, what climate are you in?

You can argue whether or not "the climate" should or will influence the critical evaluation of the movie, but you have to be an idiot to ask "what climate" given the way Ghostbusters and The Last Jedi were received and discussed.

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20 hours ago, Eastwood said:
23 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:
Marvel/Disney don’t have the rights to Hulk solo movies.  Universal does. 

In the bonus content for Infinity War, they state that they made the decision to have Hulk hide for almost all of the movie because they didn't want to be too formulaic with Hulk tapping into his unlimited potential to save the day every time. So, they had Thanos methodically pick him apart and demoralize him before he got too wound up. Hulks powers amped up to the level where he affected other universes and realities in the comics, so maybe that will be explored in the second movie.

The only movie where hulk gets bigger and stronger as he gets madder is the ang Lee one, and that’s not part of the universe. 

In MCU, he’s always been the same size. Is the unlimited potential even a part of the MCU?

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49 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

The only movie where hulk gets bigger and stronger as he gets madder is the ang Lee one, and that’s not part of the universe. 

In MCU, he’s always been the same size. Is the unlimited potential even a part of the MCU?

That's a great question.  The Beyonder stated that Hulk's potential strength is unlimited, but they've never really explored that in the MCU movies to date.  The only thing I can figure is that they've run him as a "gray" hulk to date and they may decide to use some plot device to bring out the "rage" hulk.  Or not.

 

Plotwise, Thor:Ragnorak explores many elements of the Planet Hulk theme line, but without the merging of the Gray Hulk's intellect with Rage Hulk's strength.  

Edited by Bateshorn
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26 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

That's a great question.  The Beyonder stated that Hulk's potential strength is unlimited, but they've never really explored that in the MCU movies to date.  The only thing I can figure is that they've run him as a "gray" hulk to date and they may decide to use some plot device to bring out the "rage" hulk.  Or not.

 

Plotwise, Thor:Ragnorak explores many elements of the Planet Hulk theme line, but without the merging of the Gray Hulk's intellect with Rage Hulk's strength.  

Spoiler

When the leaked promo picture came out, the theory was that they would be exploring Professor Hulk. They mentioned in the same Infinity War content that Hulk has only been around for a few years, so he has only aged to the intellect of a toddler and is still growing, which is why he had the speech pattern that he had in Ragnorok. So, it looks like there is a plot line involving the maturation of Hulk apart from Banner and that they will eventually either merge into Professor Hulk or at least become equal in maturity.

We are starting to get deeper into the Infinity War sequel, so I'm throwing the spoiler tag on it.

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5 hours ago, Eastwood said:
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When the leaked promo picture came out, the theory was that they would be exploring Professor Hulk. They mentioned in the same Infinity War content that Hulk has only been around for a few years, so he has only aged to the intellect of a toddler and is still growing, which is why he had the speech pattern that he had in Ragnorok. So, it looks like there is a plot line involving the maturation of Hulk apart from Banner and that they will eventually either merge into Professor Hulk or at least become equal in maturity.

We are starting to get deeper into the Infinity War sequel, so I'm throwing the spoiler tag on it.

Good call

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17 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

That's a great question.  The Beyonder stated that Hulk's potential strength is unlimited, but they've never really explored that in the MCU movies to date.  The only thing I can figure is that they've run him as a "gray" hulk to date and they may decide to use some plot device to bring out the "rage" hulk.  Or not.

 

Plotwise, Thor:Ragnorak explores many elements of the Planet Hulk theme line, but without the merging of the Gray Hulk's intellect with Rage Hulk's strength.  

My theory has been that they kill off Black Widow which triggers the change.  

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6 hours ago, Bateshorn said:
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Yeah, I could see a situation where they mature the hulk, then break him due to Black Widow's death, unleashing Green Scar. 

More on the Hulk bit.  Not spoiler-ish, per se, but it does deal with some rumors Eastwood referenced.

that spoiler aint happening.

Spoiler

they are working on her own solo movie. so........

 

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11 hours ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

Speaking of comic book movies, my favorite comic book character who I collected all his comics was a guy named Submariner. Anyone remember him? He was a darker and way cooler Aquaman:

Namor.jpg

Yep...but I don't know how he'll go over.

 

Depends on how Aquaman does IMO.

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2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

If he looks anything like he does on that cover, then he'll certainly appeal to one very specific demographic.

Yeah, but then confused alt-righters will think Marvel is changing Aquamans’s race for diversity reasons. 

I think Lewis Tan would have been perfect for Namor  (he would have improved IF season one’s fight scenes a great deal if he had been cast as Danny Rand).

The Sub-Mariner would have been a good character to slide in to the Avengers early on, just as a foil to Iron Man (admittedly Cap turned out to handle that role better). 

Unfortunately, Captain Marvel will most likely be one of the last solo movies to introduce a new hero.  With Spidey taking up a slot every few years, and X-Men (and/or a solo X-Men spin-off) taking up a slot every year or every other year, the amount of open slots for solo origin movies is drawing to a close.  Black Panther 2, Guardians 3, Captain Marvel 2, probably Thor 4, etc. are taking up the rest of those diminishing open slots. 

People wanted X-Men to join the MCU, but it doubt they realized it would screw with solo movies. 

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You can argue whether or not "the climate" should or will influence the critical evaluation of the movie, but you have to be an idiot to ask "what climate" given the way Ghostbusters and The Last Jedi were received and discussed.


But I think the backlash there was over forcing women into roles where they were perceived to be a bad fit/unwanted. Captain Marvel has always been female hasn’t she?
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2 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

 


But I think the backlash there was over forcing women into roles where they were perceived to be a bad fit/unwanted. Captain Marvel has always been female hasn’t she?

 

The original Captain Marvel was the old Billy Batson character. DC sued, claiming the character was a rip off of Superman, and it got shut down. 

whiz-comics-2-1-first-captain-marvel.jpg

Marvel recreated the character, cause they owned the name but couldn't use the character, but it never got much traction.

Captain_Marvel_v1_1.jpg

They've recreated the character a bunch of times as both male and female. I'm not aware of it ever being a big seller, so it's not like anyone cares that much. 

 

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On 10/6/2018 at 12:26 PM, elfenix said:

we're in a movie universe where earth is regularly visited by aliens and female fighter pilots a few years too early (maybe) is what breaks your immersion?  what?

Yeah and I pointed out the cognitive dissonance bc it’s unnecesary for a good story. And if the movie is good enough, fuck it, I won’t care. I go through the same Hard eye roll while watching Netflix DD, Luke cage, JJ, IF; the days of street shootouts, high speed chases in the city, and roving gangs in hell’s kirchen, Harlem, etc are loooooooong gone. It bugged me there until the stories, plot, characters took over (even if the shows aren’t the best ever) so I’ll give this a shot. Hope it is good.

Sorry for the tangent, y’all have a much better comic discussion going on. I know enough about comics cause I always thought they were interesting but never got into them as a kid for various reasons. 

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4 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:
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I wonder if the line about not being there to fight the war, but is there to finish it, is from the Avengers. 

 

Spoiler

Interesting.  I hadn't thought of that, but it would make sneaky sense.

 

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9 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Let's get in a nice embed....

 

My favorite part is how they basically turned Nick Fury into Ace Ventura at the end of the trailer. I bet Fury is gonna be a goofball the entire movie cause Brie gets to be the badass.

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