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50 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Donald Trump is the hero of half the working class voters in the country because he “talks like them”.  Donald Trump.  I would humbly suggest actual policy isn’t what makes the working class support a populist.

Elizabeth Warren is a radical populist who would naturally appeal to the proletariat if you ask a bunch of lawyers who took her bankruptcy law class or tracked her opinions on Dodd Frank.  To many in the actual working class, she’s Ms. Harvard Professor who can’t say anything simple without (a) phrasing it in slimy lawyer/politician legalese, and (b) acting like she’s better and smarter than you.

Populism is about emotions and impulse, not digesting the snooty Harvard egghead’s campaign themes that are derived from her secured transactions and consumer law thesis.

There is something to this comment. These people don't seem to live in reality, at least not the reality we live in. I am not sure if they actually believe their jobs are coming back but they do live their lives as if the manufacturing plants will light back up one day. They want to believe, someone just needs to give them a reason.

On a side note, the saddest thing I ever saw in Ohio was a real life lock-out. It seemed so anachronistic for people to sit outside a factory that was shutdown so that they could get partial payments from the union until their employer decided to open up the gates. In Texas we would just move on to another job.

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4 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

It would go a long way if she would just come out and say “My grandma used to tell me we were part Native American and I believed her. I have no idea if it’s true.” Instead she does that non-answer thing that politicians do and it’s a turn off.

Out of curiosity, I did a little genealogy research on this a few weeks ago.  From what I understand, the claim is based upon the second wife of her Xth great-grandfather being Native American.  However, EW descends from the first wife of the Xth great-grandfather.  There is no hard evidence about the 2nd wife, but even if the story is true, EW has zero Native American ancestry.   She can't bring herself to tell the whole story, so she's been sticking to the defending her "family story", while refusing to take a DNA test.

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2 minutes ago, 77horn said:

  She can't bring herself to tell the whole story, so she's been sticking to the defending her "family story", while refusing to take a DNA test.

She's told the story as it was told to her and has been consistent about it.

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Everything discussed here is why it has to be Bernie/Warren 2020. The progressive movement is real. Warren is great but she doesn’t have the same appeal to the Trump voter that Bernie does for whatever reason. She will gain their trust when things actually start getting better for them. 2024 Warren for President is real. 

Warren has stated she doesn’t intend to run in 2020. I know she has to say that and probably runs anyway... but it’s also obvious she’s open to working with Sanders. They’ve done videos, events, little town halls etc. together. I don’t know of two politicians who interact like this more often then these two. I think the sole reason she didn’t endorse Bernie in 2016 is the same reason Bernie endorsed Clinton so quickly after getting screwed by the DNC... to prevent Trump for the good of the country.

 

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1 minute ago, RPM said:

She's told the story as it was told to her and has been consistent about it.

Surly by now she knows better, she should own it. If not Trump will continue to hammer her about it.  And I will disrespect her for it.

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8 minutes ago, 77horn said:

Out of curiosity, I did a little genealogy research on this a few weeks ago.  From what I understand, the claim is based upon the second wife of her Xth great-grandfather being Native American.  However, EW descends from the first wife of the Xth great-grandfather.  There is no hard evidence about the 2nd wife, but even if the story is true, EW has zero Native American ancestry.   She can't bring herself to tell the whole story, so she's been sticking to the defending her "family story", while refusing to take a DNA test.

She is an Okie. I've never met someone from there that didn't claim to have native American blood. It's a non-issue.

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1 minute ago, 77horn said:

Surly by now she knows better, she should own it. 

She is owning it. 

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1 minute ago, RPM said:

She is owning it. 

How so, the last I heard was her continuing to claim her mother was part NA.

Quote

"I know who I am. And never used it for anything. Never got any benefit from it anywhere,” Warren said of her ancestry on NBC’s “Meet the Press.”

.....

“My daddy first saw my mother when they were both teenagers. He fell in love with this tall, quiet girl who played the piano. Head over heels. But his family was bitterly opposed to their relationship because she was part Native American. They eventually eloped.”

 

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Maybe you don't understand what owning it means.

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I'm using the second definition.

 

Quote
1.
have (something) as one's own; possess.

2. admit or acknowledge that something is the case.  synonyms include admit, concede, and confess

 

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55 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Irrelevant Native American talking point not going away

Seriously.  Even if you take it to the extreme that she is knowingly lying about it, holy shit.  Look at the motherfucker in office right now!  Lies more than any god damn human being on earth about the most easily provable bullshit!  Fuck.

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1 hour ago, F250 said:

She is an Okie. I've never met someone from there that didn't claim to have native American blood. It's a non-issue.

Member that time when all those White Cherokee from Tennessee fought all them Mexican Crypto-Jews at the Alamo? There were some Black People who were actually Egyptian Royal Family there too, as well as a Chinese guy from Central Hunan who was actually from slightly to the east of Central Hunan. I saw it on the TV that I usually use for a radio.

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Irrelevant Native American talking point not going away


She could make it irrelevant in about five minutes. Instead she’s a politician.

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Seriously.  Even if you take it to the extreme that she is knowingly lying about it, holy shit.  Look at the motherfucker in office right now!  Lies more than any god damn human being on earth about the most easily provable bullshit!  Fuck.


#whataboutism

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49 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

 


#whataboutism

 

Come on.  Knowingly lying about having native american blood (again, big assumption that she is even doing that) vs what dotus is doing on a daily basis ain't the same fuckin' ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same fuckin' sport. 

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35 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Come on.  Knowingly lying about having native american blood (again, big assumption that she is even doing that) vs what dotus is doing on a daily basis ain't the same fuckin' ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same fuckin' sport. 

It’s all they have... let them hold onto that one ridiculously absurd criticism.

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6 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

 


She could make it irrelevant in about five minutes. Instead she’s a politician.

 

Oh please. You wouldn't trust what she said anyway.

Edited by berlinerbaer

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7 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

Member that time when all those White Cherokee from Tennessee fought all them Mexican Crypto-Jews at the Alamo? There were some Black People who were actually Egyptian Royal Family there too, as well as a Chinese guy from Central Hunan who was actually from slightly to the east of Central Hunan. I saw it on the TV that I usually use for a radio.

oh, wow.  you're a lot like me.  i have a coffeemaker that i use for a clock.  if it told time it would really be good for that.

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Warren: I'll serve my full senate term if re-elected

Quote

DORCHESTER, Mass. – Elizabeth Warren said she would serve her full six-year term in the Senate if reelected this November.

“Yes, that’s my plan. I’m running for the United States Senate in 2018,” Warren told reporters Thursday, when asked if she would commit to serving out her full term. “I am not running for president of the United States. That’s my plan.”

 

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On 4/4/2018 at 1:43 PM, F250 said:

She is an Okie. I've never met someone from there that didn't claim to have native American blood. It's a non-issue.

This times a thousand.

Elizabeth Warren grew up really poor in Oklahoma.  You can't throw a rock in an Okie Walmart without hitting a poor person who claims to have NA blood.  It's damn near a pastime for poor people in Oklahoma to try and figure out if they have NA ancestors.

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On 4/4/2018 at 1:33 PM, 77horn said:

Out of curiosity, I did a little genealogy research on this a few weeks ago.  From what I understand, the claim is based upon the second wife of her Xth great-grandfather being Native American.  However, EW descends from the first wife of the Xth great-grandfather.  There is no hard evidence about the 2nd wife, but even if the story is true, EW has zero Native American ancestry.   She can't bring herself to tell the whole story, so she's been sticking to the defending her "family story", while refusing to take a DNA test.

You could have a full-blood Native American great-great-grandparent and there is a decent chance it won't show up in a lot of tests, because you have 16 great-great-grandparents, and their traits/markers are not passed down evenly.    DNA tests don't matter with Native Americans though, because they don't tell you anything about the tribe you are descended from.  Because of that, tribes don't care about DNA when looking at tribal membership and the CDIB.  My CDIB is based upon my mom's CDIB (and her parents, and their parents back to the Dawes Rolls).

She's an Okie and like many poor Okies, was raised on those sorts of stories.  If anything, pity her for being an Okie, because there's plenty of other reasons to not like her.

Edited by atomheartbevo

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Are you fucking kidding me?!? After what we get from Trump several times every fucking day, this is still a story? Gotdamn we suck as a country.

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This idea that the working class can "relate" to Trump but not Warren is probably true, but really sad. She actually is one of them, clawed her way up and out, and now people like Trump are gonna tar her as some namby-pamby "East coast elite" who was conceived by Biff and Muffy while they were sailboarding off Cape Cod and then was sent off to St Eleanor the Genteel boarding school shortly after birth. 

 

Kinda like how Kerry was packaged as a Vietnam coward while Bush's atrocious war record was glossed over. 

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1 hour ago, SquishMitten said:

Are you fucking kidding me?!? After what we get from Trump several times every fucking day, this is still a story?

It's not a story, but it's all they've got.

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On 4/4/2018 at 2:43 PM, F250 said:

She is an Okie. I've never met someone from there that didn't claim to have native American blood. It's a non-issue.

No kidding about the odds of having native american genes. She should take a private DNA test to see for sure and then make it public, assuming it shows the heritage. 

Edited by Dolemite

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1 hour ago, Dolemite said:

No kidding about the odds of having native american genes. She should take a private DNA test to see for sure and then make it public, assuming it shows the heritage. 

I would agree, except then her detractors would just bitch about it not being a long-form DNA test.

Edited by Tom

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It’s fucking bullshit and insulting just like asking Obama for his birth certificate.

Where are your papers?  Papers please?

Prove to us something that makes fuckall of a difference.

Dance monkey! Dance!

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz

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12 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It’s fucking bullshit and insulting just like asking Obama for his birth certificate.

Where are your papers?  Papers please?

Prove to us something that makes fuckall of a difference.

Dance monkey! Dance!

DNA test for tax returns, straight up.

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1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

DNA test for tax returns, straight up.

 

Donald-Trump-Wait.gif

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On Wednesday, I put to Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) policy questions about the economy, free markets and regulation. Unprompted, she composed and sent to me detailed responses. “Thanks for raising these questions — they’re good ones and go to the heart of some of the biggest economic problems facing our country,” she wrote back. ” I took a stab at answering them below.”

Cynics will say, “She’s running!” If so, we should welcome some serious discussion of major issues. At the onset, I will make three observations.

First, it’s refreshing to get substantive, thoughtful answers from someone who may have presidential aspirations. It is easy to forget what serious public servants should sound like.

Read more here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2018/07/27/sen-elizabeth-warren-responds-to-our-invitation-to-discuss-policy-part-1/?utm_term=.31b815b1ec89

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I'm not sure that Ms. Rubin knows what unprompted means, but it's nice to see a politician respond in that manner. And Warren also makes a lot of excellent points in her responses with some not so excellent implications thrown in here and there. I'm sure she'll be called a socialist if she starts running for office but her entire response can be summed up as support for true capitalistic competition. The catch is how you define that.

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I think she suffers from same issue of Hillary. Elitist, rich, not super warm etc

i don’t doubt she’ll run but she won’t play well nationally unless she changes a lot. 

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20 minutes ago, BrazilHorn said:

 

I think she suffers from same issue of Hillary. Elitist, rich, not super warm etc

 

And the completely baseless framing has been established.

 

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Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

And the completely baseless framing has been established.

 

And the instant pushback as well from Hugo  

She suffers from same things Romney, Fiorina and Hillary did. 

If she runs without changing her style/MO she’ll lose. If you think she resonates anywhere outside of the NE and CA currently you’re kidding yourself  

 

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So to be clear: you think she has the personality to appeal to voters nationwide?

politics is Hollywood now. If you think she has the play for a national campaign then good for you. 

I don’t. 

There’s a difference between policies/capabilities and personality. 

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14 hours ago, BrazilHorn said:

I think she suffers from same issue of Hillary. Elitist, rich, not super warm etc

i don’t doubt she’ll run but she won’t play well nationally unless she changes a lot. 

Elizabeth Warren is rich? That's news to me. How much is she worth? For that matter, how much is Hillary worth?

Now tell me how much Trump is worth. (Ha ha! Good luck with that.) How about the members of his cabinet and senior advisers? How about George HW, Jeb, and George W Bush? Mitt Romney?

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2 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Elizabeth Warren is rich? That's news to me. How much is she worth? For that matter, how much is Hillary worth?

Now tell me how much Trump is worth. (Ha ha! Good luck with that.) How about the members of his cabinet and senior advisers? How about George HW, Jeb, and George W Bush? Mitt Romney?

Quick search shows between 3.7-10M. She’s not poor. You may have a different definition of rich than I do. 

I used Romney as similar example to her as rich,elitist and out of touch. 

Not sure your point. If you believe she will play nationally good for you. I don’t. 

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3 minutes ago, BrazilHorn said:

Quick search shows between 3.7-10M. She’s not poor. You may have a different definition of rich than I do. 

I used Romney as similar example to her as rich,elitist and out of touch. 

Not sure your point. If you believe she will play nationally good for you. I don’t. 

She just has to play better than Donald Trump. That's getting easier by the day.

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On 4/4/2018 at 1:38 PM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Irrelevant Native American talking point not going away

I agree. Right up to the point where she refuses to admit that she lied. Her hubris is what will destroy her. A person of good character admits error and moves on to the next issue. 

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