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Luka Doncic


Goo Punch

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4 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Aren’t you the guy who was telling everyone he was better than Dirk 20 games into his rookie season?

i'm the guy who correctly pointed out that luka was already more skilled than Dirk, then caught hell for it, only to have everyone open their eyes and get on board with my take before too long. it's called The Derka Cycle. happens all the time. i say something i truly believe that sounds controversial to others (eg the 2016-17 Texas hoops team will be no good, jarrett allen isn't going to blow you away, sam ehlinger is good at everything but great at nothing, the football recruits we sign don't matter because we don't develop talent, Notre Dame is going to kick our asses, shaka needs to be fired, eric musselman would be a good hire, etc etc), people flip out, but then a little time goes by and then suddenly most everyone one is on board, save some revisionist history (eg claiming that i said luka was better than dirk, when i said he was more skilled). we all should be used to this by now. 

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You did catch hell for that.  You were right about more skilled.  When you made the thread you jumped the gun IMO, and yes were attacked for saying "better than dirk alreadly"...but of course, have most likely been proven right by the end of the post season.

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15 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

i'm the guy who correctly pointed out that luka was already more skilled than Dirk, then caught hell for it

C'mon Derka, this is factually untrue. No one really challenged you on Luka being more skilled (did anyone?). You also said the Luka was better then than peak Dirk. That was the pushback. 

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Just now, aggie08 said:

C'mon Derka, this is factually untrue. No one really challenged you on Luka being more skilled (did anyone?). You also said the Luka was better then than peak Dirk. That was the pushback. 

100% wrong. go back to the beginning of the thread and read it again. 

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Posted (edited)
On 12/30/2019 at 12:14 AM, Goo Punch said:

He's already better than Dirk at nearly everything. I know that's hard for a lot of people to swallow for some reason, but it's true. He could literally not improve at all over the next dozen years and he would still go down as a top 10 all time player. I honestly don't even understand how this is a debate. 

This is post 9 in this thread, but c'mon dude, back in 2019 this is obviously exaggerating his ability at the time and trying to troll Mavs fans. Even right now after that incredible series against the Suns, I wouldn't put him at the Dirk level yet. Dirk taking down the Heatles in 2011 was better than anything Luka has done so far.  The NBA is all about rings, and until Luka can earn one, he's not on that level yet.  

Edited by Dutchrudder
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1 minute ago, Dutchrudder said:

This is post 9 in this thread, but c'mon dude, back in 2019 this is obviously exaggerating his ability at the time and trying to troll Mavs fans. 

??? uh, no. it was what i believed, and what i still believe to this day, because it's the truth. and i have zero interest in trolling any fan base about anything. "hey Mavs fans, your young stud is already supremely talented!!!" epic troll job. 

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On 12/30/2019 at 3:32 PM, aggie08 said:
On 12/29/2019 at 8:14 PM, Goo Punch said:

He could literally not improve at all over the next dozen years and he would still go down as a top 10 all time player. I honestly don't even understand how this is a debate. 

 

On 12/29/2019 at 8:43 PM, Goo Punch said:

Dirk is currently the greatest European player ever, and probably a top 20-ish all time guy. hats off to him. Luka is still a better basketball player.

You also said these things. It was a dumb semantics argument by all involved, myself certainly included. You took "better" to mean more skilled. Others took it differently.

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the part about him retiring as a top 10 player was a bit much, obviously, especially since a lot of that has to do with hardware. but skills wise, Luka was the best at his age since either LeBron or KD, which again, means he had more all around basketball skill than Dirk ever had. 

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

So what’s the definition of this nebulous “basketball skill” term?

having more skills does not make one a better player. there have been plenty of guys with crazy skills who didn't turn out to be great players, and then you have guys like Grant Williams, who is usually the least skilled guy on the floor, yet he's a starter and major contributor for a team that could win it all. 

just look at Luka before he even came to the NBA: bringing the ball up the floor, going coast to coast, throwing no-look passes, behind the back passes, beating his man off the dribble and then gliding his way to the rim, losing his defenders with his ball handling and then draining step back threes- Luka, like many players from today, had more skills as a teenager than many pros did at their peak back 10, 20, 30 years ago. 

so again- Dirk is a top 20-ish all time player, an MVP, a Finals MVP, and a champion- he's the greater player, by a lot. but skills wise? there's a lot that Luka can do that Dirk couldn't.

 

 

Edited by shadow_operative
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18 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

It's just crazy how good he is while being (relatively speaking, of course) a pretty average athlete. His balls skills and footwork are just so far superior to most of his peers that he can tapdance circles around most of them anyway. I'm not a Dallas fan but it kinda blows me away every time I see it and I should be used to it by now.

I think his game is eerily close to Jason Kidd's it's scary.  But it didn't take him 15 years to learn how to shoot.  I also think his defense will get better as they integrate additional ball-handlers to the team over the years and he doesn't have to constantly have the ball in his hands.  

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??? uh, no. it was what i believed, and what i still believe to this day, because it's the truth. and i have zero interest in trolling any fan base about anything. "hey Mavs fans, your young stud is already supremely talented!!!" epic troll job. 
You said those things on dec 30, 2019 when he was two months into his second NBA season. Luka wasn't better than dirk in dec 2019. He hadn't won a playoff series. He didn't make his teammates better. He took off way too many plays every game. He didn't play defense. He pouted about no-calls too much and cost his team probably 2 or 3 baskets every game by making his defense play a man down as he stayed on the offensive end of the floor after a no call. He wasn't, in a word, professional.
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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:
2 hours ago, shadow_operative said:
??? uh, no. it was what i believed, and what i still believe to this day, because it's the truth. and i have zero interest in trolling any fan base about anything. "hey Mavs fans, your young stud is already supremely talented!!!" epic troll job. 

You said those things on dec 30, 2019 when he was two months into his second NBA season. Luka wasn't better than dirk in dec 2019. He hadn't won a playoff series. He didn't make his teammates better. He took off way too many plays every game. He didn't play defense. He pouted about no-calls too much and cost his team probably 2 or 3 baskets every game by making his defense play a man down as he stayed on the offensive end of the floor after a no call. He wasn't, in a word, professional.

oh good, we're back to the part where people can't understand the difference between basketball skills and actual impact/ability as a player. 

Edited by shadow_operative
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Posted (edited)

if Luka had played at Duke in 2018 instead of Spain then he would have been the consensus no.1 player in the draft and his skill set, size, and maturity would have had people comparing him to everyone from Anthony Davis and KD, all the way back to Walton and Lacindor in terms of most polished/talented freshmen ever. and, the idea that he already had more basketball skill than many great players from the past (particularly in the specific case of him vs Dirk, who looks like a big stiff compared to Luka) wouldn't even be a little bit controversial. 

edited to add: i wonder long it will take before someone claims that i said that luka is better than kareem based on this post...

Edited by shadow_operative
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3 minutes ago, Quagmire said:

How many screen names can one person have , I can’t keep up

i've only ever changed my screen name when a)someone else ran over here and registered as derka, and b)when immamac would ban me because we disagreed about something. so what's your point? 

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

if Luka had played at Duke in 2018 instead of Spain then he would have been the consensus no.1 player in the draft and his skill set, size, and maturity would have had people comparing him to everyone from Anthony Davis and KD, all the way back to Walton and Lacindor in terms of most polished/talented freshmen ever. and, the idea that he already had more basketball skill than many great players from the past (particularly in the specific case of him vs Dirk, who looks like a big stiff compared to Luka) wouldn't even be a little bit controversial. 

edited to add: i wonder long it will take before someone claims that i said that luka is better than kareem based on this post...

Lacindor? really?  you went back and edited the post just to talk shit about other people and you left that in there? really derkagoooperative? 

giphy.gif?cid=5e214886cn5y9uahs4odnjfwtb

 

Edited by shadow_operative
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On 12/30/2019 at 12:14 AM, Goo Punch said:

He's already better than Dirk at nearly everything. I know that's hard for a lot of people to swallow for some reason, but it's true. He could literally not improve at all over the next dozen years and he would still go down as a top 10 all time player. I honestly don't even understand how this is a debate. 

 

3 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

oh good, we're back to the part where people can't understand the difference between basketball skills and actual impact/ability as a player. 

i missed the part in your original post where you said "basketball skills".  you were hyperbolic and wrong in your first post.  you should own it and move on.

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

 

i missed the part in your original post where you said "basketball skills".  you were hyperbolic and wrong in your first post.  you should own it and move on.

what do you think "at nearly everything" means? it didn't occur to you that "everything" was referring to basketball skills? you really needed me to type out "everything basketball related"? or did you just think that i meant that Luka was already better at most things in life in general?

if i thought that luka was already a better player than dirk then i would have just said so. pretty simple. i frankly don't care whether you admit that you're wrong or not, but you definitely should move on from this dumbass conversation, because you're on the wrong side of it.

Edited by shadow_operative
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what do you think "at nearly everything" means? it didn't occur to you that "everything" was referring to basketball skills? you really needed me to type out "everything basketball related"? or did you just think that i meant that Luka was already better at most things in life in general?
if i thought that luka was already a better player than dirk then i would have just said so. pretty simple. i frankly don't care whether you admit that you're wrong or not, but you definitely should move on from this dumbass conversation, because you're on the wrong side of it.


You're the one who limited "everything" to mean basketball skills only but you do you.

Edit: I can't speak English
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Dirk is 7 feet tall of course Doncic at 6 7, who has played Guard all his life, is gonna be better at dribbling, passing.  Dirk was a better shooter. rebounding is kind of a wash but the game is different now as it relates to glass work.

Does Luka have a good chance to be better.  you bet he does as he has the capability of affecting the other team a lot more given his athletic ability over Dirk.

right now I'd take prime Dirk to take a shot to win the NBA Championship but Luka is coming.

 

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i've only ever changed my screen name when a)someone else ran over here and registered as derka, and b)when immamac would ban me because we disagreed about something. so what's your point? 

Banned for a disagreement , sounds legit .
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Posted (edited)

Luka hopefully doesn't add 30lbs in offseason like last year.

Just watched Reggie Miller interview on Dan Patrick Show.  Reggie said that Jason Kidd keeps saying Luka is like another LeBron because he has so many advantages over other players in the NBA.  Just has to keep his weight down, and quit arguing with Refs and lots of great times ahead...

Hopefully Luka stays in Dallas... 🙄

 

 

Edited by LTtxfan
typo
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Posted (edited)

Mavs fan here giggling/,giddy at the fact that we have a player who at 23 is better than my favorite player of all time. 

Oh and also better than every other player on the planet. 

Edited by threesheets
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2 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Luka hopefully doesn't add 30lbs in offseason like last year.

Just watched Reggie Miller interview on Dan Patrick Show.  Reggie said that Jason Kidd keeps saying Luka is like another LeBron because he has so many advantages over other players in the NBA.  Just has to keep his weight down, and quit arguing with Refs and lots of great times ahead...

Hopefully Luka stays in Dallas... 🙄

 

 

he doesn't need to quit lobbying the refs but he does need to pick his spots better when he does it.  fuck Tim Duncan made a career of arguing with refs on every offensive possession.  so does Lebron.

Cuban needs to get him a true 2nd star.

As for this series, Dinwiddie and Brunson need to nut up and make sure they don't disappear for stretches.

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so I’ll admit I dont understand most NBA contracts esp who can get a supermax deal.... but Im curious could a guy like Jokic say trade me to Dallas to play with Luka??     Then Cuban be able to make up the difference with bonus clauses? I know Dinwiddie made an xtra 1/2 mill + by reaching WCF.   So say they wrote it into Jokic contract 5 million $ bonus for WCF... 5 million $ bonus for nba finals...is this even a possiblity?

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1 hour ago, Rholl said:

so I’ll admit I dont understand most NBA contracts esp who can get a supermax deal.... but Im curious could a guy like Jokic say trade me to Dallas to play with Luka??     Then Cuban be able to make up the difference with bonus clauses? I know Dinwiddie made an xtra 1/2 mill + by reaching WCF.   So say they wrote it into Jokic contract 5 million $ bonus for WCF... 5 million $ bonus for nba finals...is this even a possiblity?

 

 

46C8FDA7-F8FD-4798-A838-F1670A927EC9.jpeg

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Rholl said:

so I’ll admit I dont understand most NBA contracts esp who can get a supermax deal.... but Im curious could a guy like Jokic say trade me to Dallas to play with Luka??     Then Cuban be able to make up the difference with bonus clauses? I know Dinwiddie made an xtra 1/2 mill + by reaching WCF.   So say they wrote it into Jokic contract 5 million $ bonus for WCF... 5 million $ bonus for nba finals...is this even a possiblity?

Jokic would fit easily although we'd have to match contracts within 10 or 15% in the ensuing trade which would pretty much gut the roster. Regardless Jokic wouldn't do that. Assuming all his injured teammates come back fully healthy his roster on Denver is light years better than what he would be left with here in Dallas, even with Luka. Next year the west is going to be ridiculously tough. Teams like Denver, Clippers, and even New Orleans will have significant talent returning from injury. I imagine perhaps a team like Utah will probably fall out of the mix, but the top 6 teams will all be legit championship contenders.  

Edited by Catdaddyhorn
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3 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Jokic would fit easily although we'd have to match contracts within 10 or 15% in the ensuing trade which would pretty much gut the roster. Regardless Jokic wouldn't do that. Assuming all his injured teammates come back fully healthy his roster on Denver is light years better than what he would be left with here in Dallas, even with Luka. Next year the west is going to be ridiculously tough. Teams like Denver, Clippers, and even New Orleans will have significant talent returning from injury. I imagine perhaps a team like Utah will probably fall out of the mix, but the top 6 teams will all be legit championship contenders.  

Jokic + Murray + Porter <<<< Jokic + Luka + me

c'mon man

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3 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

 Next year the west is going to be ridiculously tough. Teams like Denver, Clippers, and even New Orleans will have significant talent returning from injury. I imagine perhaps a team like Utah will probably fall out of the mix, but the top 6 teams will all be legit championship contenders.  

that's why this year being in the final 4 is the Mavs best chance at a title for a few years.  As someone said earlier in this thread (or maybe the Mavs one) that they will believe Dallas can attract a big time FA the moment after it finally happens.  this is a golden chance with the only obstacle to the Finals being a Warriors team that is damn good but not at their peak from a few years ago.

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Even assuming Porter and Murray are fully healthy, you have Jokic -- top 3 player in the league, Murray -- top 20-ish player in the league (I wouldn't argue pushing that to 30), Porter -- top 75-ish (3rd best player on almost any of 30 teams and better than half the 3rd best players), Luka -- top 5 player, and let's drop the hyperbole and say Brunson -- top 75ish player. Jokic on Dallas would be unfair to the league and might break the game.

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Get Luka a true center and his game could conceivable get even better. Mavs are fortunate this year that the final four all play small ball which they can match up against if they make their shots.

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17 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

They have more than just Porter and Murray though. Their depth got a lot of experience this year without Murray and Porter. 

That's fair, but your top 3 win you games in the NBA a lot more than 4-12 do. I think the Spurs might have the strongest 8-12 roster in the NBA and they sucked because their top 3 are not as good as the other teams' top 3s.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Rholl said:

so I’ll admit I dont understand most NBA contracts esp who can get a supermax deal.... but Im curious could a guy like Jokic say trade me to Dallas to play with Luka??     Then Cuban be able to make up the difference with bonus clauses? I know Dinwiddie made an xtra 1/2 mill + by reaching WCF.   So say they wrote it into Jokic contract 5 million $ bonus for WCF... 5 million $ bonus for nba finals...is this even a possiblity?

Jokic ain't leaving Denver.  He was interviewed last week by a Serbian website and said he's not leaving Denver until they kick him out and he'll sign the supermax when they put it in front of him.

 

Maybe Denver could trade for Luka, though?

Edited by Chewbacca
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15 minutes ago, &#x27;stache said:

Get Luka a true center and his game could conceivable get even better. Mavs are fortunate this year that the final four all play small ball which they can match up against if they make their shots.

Ayton might be available, but does anyone really want to give him a supermax?

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Posted (edited)

A potentially underrated asset that may be available next year is Jonathan Issac. Provided he's fully recovered he could be another version of Maxi Kleber minus that elite potential from outside.

Edited by Catdaddyhorn
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Just now, shadow_operative said:

jesus this guy is unbelievable. 

He looked around at the West and was like... you know what, none of you are that good and I have some fuckin (literal) shootas.

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10 hours ago, ztejas said:

He looked around at the West and was like... you know what, none of you are that good and I have some fuckin (literal) shootas.

Where you been on the other thread? Did I miss something?

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

Where you been on the other thread? Did I miss something?

I'm on hiatus. 

Let's keep it about Luka, btw. 

Edited by ztejas
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at the beginning of this thread i said that Luka was sort of of Magic/Bird hybrid, but the longer i've watched him, the more clear it becomes that he's simply the first Luka Doncic. Much like the winners of the last 4 MVP Awards- Jokic and Giannis- Luka is the first of his kind. He doesn't compare to any former player, and i don't think that he's even a combo or hybrid or former stars. I mean even LeBron James, to me, had guys i could compare him to. I used to say that he was a mix of Magic Johnson and Charles Barkley, which, other than his otherworldly leaping ability, pretty much sums him up, especially early. Luka is in that very rare air where he's simply the first of his kind. Amazing player.

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39 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

at the beginning of this thread i said that Luka was sort of of Magic/Bird hybrid, but the longer i've watched him, the more clear it becomes that he's simply the first Luka Doncic. Much like the winners of the last 4 MVP Awards- Jokic and Giannis- Luka is the first of his kind. He doesn't compare to any former player, and i don't think that he's even a combo or hybrid or former stars. I mean even LeBron James, to me, had guys i could compare him to. I used to say that he was a mix of Magic Johnson and Charles Barkley, which, other than his otherworldly leaping ability, pretty much sums him up, especially early. Luka is in that very rare air where he's simply the first of his kind. Amazing player.

For my money the best 4 players in the NBA right now are Giannis, Jokic, Luka and Durant. 4 absolute unicorns. Pretty cool time in the league. 

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24 minutes ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

For my money the best 4 players in the NBA right now are Giannis, Jokic, Luka and Durant. 4 absolute unicorns. Pretty cool time in the league. 

Agree agree agree

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