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Roof replacement / insurance questions


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Dimensional shingle. Measurement is somewhere around 35 squares including extra. $35 a bundle at Home Depot. So about $4K in shingles (~105 bundles). Then there is underlayment, any replaced decking, nails, flashing, etc. I came up around $5K, put it at $6K just to add some leeway.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Owens-Corning-TruDefinition-Duration-Driftwood-Algae-Resistant-Architectural-Roofing-Shingles-32-8-sq-ft-Per-Bundle-20-Pieces-TD30/313218552

Labor, I'm assuming 8 guys making $30 an hour. Don't know what the going rate is, but that seemed fair. Just trying to do some back of the envelope math. I couldn't figure how they got anywhere near $16K without some really high margins. I'm all for people making money on what is a hard fucking job, but the numbers leave me scratching my head.

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Dimensional shingle. Measurement is somewhere around 35 squares including extra. $35 a bundle at Home Depot. So about $4K in shingles (~105 bundles). Then there is underlayment, any replaced decking, nails, flashing, etc. I came up around $5K, put it at $6K just to add some leeway.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Owens-Corning-TruDefinition-Duration-Driftwood-Algae-Resistant-Architectural-Roofing-Shingles-32-8-sq-ft-Per-Bundle-20-Pieces-TD30/313218552
Labor, I'm assuming 8 guys making $30 an hour. Don't know what the going rate is, but that seemed fair. Just trying to do some back of the envelope math. I couldn't figure how they got anywhere near $16K without some really high margins. I'm all for people making money on what is a hard fucking job, but the numbers leave me scratching my head.

So let me get this straight. You are bitchin about how much this is going to cost when all you are out is the deductible?
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15 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

“A hard fucking job”.

You answered your own question on why it costs so much.

You forgot disposal, insurance, payroll expenses, etc.

Did I?

20 hours ago, FirstTimeCaller said:

Can y'all in the business help me understand the economics of roofing? I have some bids in around $16,000 for a replacement. I've priced out materials. Comes to about $5,000. Let's call it $6,000 just to give plenty of leeway.

I've been told the job can be done in a day. Then say it's a crew of eight guys making $30 an hour for a 10-hour day. That's $2,400 in labor. So that comes out to around $8,500 in materials and labor, leaving about $7,500.

Then there's all sorts of things like insurance, transportation, offices, hauling away debris, etc. No idea what the "other" would be, but will assume $2,000 to be generous. 

Is there really a $5,500 profit margin on a roof? 

 

No, I didn't.

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11 hours ago, milkman said:


So let me get this straight. You are bitchin about how much this is going to cost when all you are out is the deductible?

as someone whose home insurance (and deductible amount) has doubled in a couple years time, I for one appreciate anyone trying to keep that from happening again

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as someone whose home insurance (and deductible amount) has doubled in a couple years time, I for one appreciate anyone trying to keep that from happening again

A few people paying a little more on a roof than they think isn’t what has made insurance go up a bunch.
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On 5/22/2023 at 4:35 PM, FirstTimeCaller said:

Dimensional shingle. Measurement is somewhere around 35 squares including extra. $35 a bundle at Home Depot. So about $4K in shingles (~105 bundles). Then there is underlayment, any replaced decking, nails, flashing, etc. I came up around $5K, put it at $6K just to add some leeway.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Owens-Corning-TruDefinition-Duration-Driftwood-Algae-Resistant-Architectural-Roofing-Shingles-32-8-sq-ft-Per-Bundle-20-Pieces-TD30/313218552

Labor, I'm assuming 8 guys making $30 an hour. Don't know what the going rate is, but that seemed fair. Just trying to do some back of the envelope math. I couldn't figure how they got anywhere near $16K without some really high margins. I'm all for people making money on what is a hard fucking job, but the numbers leave me scratching my head.

I ran some numbers and I speculated your roof (any oddities or special features disclaimed) should cost around $13K to remove and install new with a decent 20-25% profit over cost to product. 

If you're getting $16K quotes for a straight up roof replacement (no insurance claim) then those quotes are a bit pricey.

YMMV.

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Seems like codifying the whole "roofers can't pay any portion of deductible" eliminated any competition from a pricing perspective.  Now the only competition is getting the job. They will all take as much profit as the insurers allow.  Would love to learn how that's wrong because it does seem like we're all paying for market inefficiencies. 

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1 hour ago, Skipper said:

Seems like codifying the whole "roofers can't pay any portion of deductible" eliminated any competition from a pricing perspective.  Now the only competition is getting the job. They will all take as much profit as the insurers allow.  Would love to learn how that's wrong because it does seem like we're all paying for market inefficiencies. 

This topic is very difficult with a lot of stuff at work.

A big problem is a significant amount of money is tied into a piece of real estate and a secured lender.   Get a $50K check from IC to install a new roof?  Great!  Now HO is gonna try to get the roof done as inexpensively as possible and pocket the difference.  "I'm gonna make money off this deal, too" says HO

Who goes first?  HO gets three bids and presents to IC.  Are all 3 bids fair bids or are they puffed and overpriced?  IC agrees to pay and HO then takes the 4th low-ball contractor hidden in his pocket.  IC don't like  that a bit.

Now IC tries to control the pay outs (Xactimate software) and set the market price.  Roofers whine saying it's not enough money so they cut corners to increase margins or IC overpays and HO says "hey, that's a lot of money for my roof! The roofer is making too much and driving around in a brand new jacked up F250 and I'm paying for it through increased premiums!  Furk everything!!!"

I hate the insurance/ storm chasing game.  Most of what we do is high-end, custom new construction.  Storm / insurance work if chock full of shit-on-a-stick "roofers" that don't know the first thing about roofing but completely understand how to get between you and your insurance check.

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On 5/25/2023 at 2:35 PM, deadshank said:

This topic is very difficult with a lot of stuff at work.

A big problem is a significant amount of money is tied into a piece of real estate and a secured lender.   Get a $50K check from IC to install a new roof?  Great!  Now HO is gonna try to get the roof done as inexpensively as possible and pocket the difference.  "I'm gonna make money off this deal, too" says HO

Who goes first?  HO gets three bids and presents to IC.  Are all 3 bids fair bids or are they puffed and overpriced?  IC agrees to pay and HO then takes the 4th low-ball contractor hidden in his pocket.  IC don't like  that a bit.

Now IC tries to control the pay outs (Xactimate software) and set the market price.  Roofers whine saying it's not enough money so they cut corners to increase margins or IC overpays and HO says "hey, that's a lot of money for my roof! The roofer is making too much and driving around in a brand new jacked up F250 and I'm paying for it through increased premiums!  Furk everything!!!"

I hate the insurance/ storm chasing game.  Most of what we do is high-end, custom new construction.  Storm / insurance work if chock full of shit-on-a-stick "roofers" that don't know the first thing about roofing but completely understand how to get between you and your insurance check.

It would help a lot of if the state of Texas would get involved and help regulate the roofing business in Texas. As of now, to my knowledge, there is absolutely zero regulation. You and I could print up biz cards saying deadshank & C-Man roofing tomorrow and start knocking on doors in neighborhoods after a big hail storm, try and repair some roofs, pocket some insurance money and be gone like a fart in the wind in six months with no recourse whatsoever.

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6 hours ago, C-Man said:

It would help a lot of if the state of Texas would get involved and help regulate the roofing business in Texas. As of now, to my knowledge, there is absolutely zero regulation. You and I could print up biz cards saying deadshank & C-Man roofing tomorrow and start knocking on doors in neighborhoods after a big hail storm, try and repair some roofs, pocket some insurance money and be gone like a fart in the wind in six months with no recourse whatsoever.

I agree / I disagree.   Barriers to entry seems advantageous through less competition / higher prices (“the trade off for consumer protection”…nudge nudge wink wink); however, now I’d be beholden to some government board twit that washed out of the industry or never was in it his/herself.

Of the major trades, only 3 require a license in the state of Texas.  Electricians, plumbers and HVAC contractors.   Significant apprenticeship programs are required to advance to journeyman and then to master license holder. 

There are no barriers to entry in roofing.   The Roofing Contractors Association of Texas has, in the past, campaigned for licensing.  Many large RCs have advocated for licensing.  
 

The  blowback and ultimate defeat of the latest idea for something as toothless as registration (not even licensing) came from Frank Fuentes of the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a few state reps and a guy that relied the Independent Contractors of TX (whoever they are).

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