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Posted
1 minute ago, 956 Worldwide said:

“I got drunk on shore leave in Croatia” is a plausible explanation for an accidental SS Totenakmpf SS tattoo. Not having covered it up before a senate run many years later is incredibly dumbshit behavior if that’s what you’re rolling with. One must be simply be prepared that political enemies might use a massive SS tattoo against you. 

Or simply getting it removed. 

My best friend IRL is a jarhead and he had a fucking Celtic cross on his back that he got in Japan when he was active duty because he thought it looked cool and he damn near made it to 40 before he knew that it had been co-opted by white supremacist/Neo-Nazi groups. The dude was so rarely shirtless that I didn't notice for years until we were out on the lake one day like 8 years ago.

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Posted
3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, mostly this.  And y'all know my pretty unambiguous stance on Nazis (I think they are bad....which is apparently a controversial and un-American take these days, to hear the admin tell it).

I actually was having a conversation over the weekend with a professor that teaches at UH Manoa from Germany. She got her PhD in Electrical Engineering in Finland and I told her what I'm doing for a masters. We talked about the nazis and her grandfather was a party member if I remember right. She finds America to be a pretty odd place overall right now.

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Posted
59 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

That seems a little on the nose and it's 3rd hand info but ick if true

Yeah it feels slimy. If someone was going to say this anonymously, at least choose a more reputable publication to do it.

Posted
Yeah, if he'd had it removed it would've been incredibly easy to come up with an explanation that would've been acceptable to most liberals. It could've been anything from "I was young and stupid and didn't know what it was but got it removed once I learned what it was" to "I was an outright nazi but reformed and let me tell you why..." 
"I got it because I was drunk and stupid and I knew what it was and have known for the last ~20 years and I've still got it and won't get it removed because it doesn't mean anything" ain't it. 

Certainly someone sat him down and said, “If you’re going to run, we need to know the skeletons. Affairs. Debts. Giant Nazi tattoos. The whole bit.” That was the point at which you go get it removed no matter how plausible your “I was an idiot teen jarhead on leave” story is.
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Posted
3 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:


Certainly someone sat him down and said, “If you’re going to run, we need to know the skeletons. Affairs. Debts. Giant Nazi tattoos. The whole bit.” That was the point at which you go get it removed no matter how plausible your “I was an idiot teen jarhead on leave” story is.

Things are pretty gotdam grim when we can’t easily cast aside the bonehead with an accidental SS tattoo because otherwise who will appeal to the Rogan chucklefucks.

Whatever the failings of establishment gatekeeping, it seems its absence is significantly worse. Maine elections should be “Country Club Republican with a sailboat” versus “Not a hippie anymore Democrat (also has a sailboat).”

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

The Pod Save interview was clearly an attempt to try to get out in front of the Jewish Insider story, which was most likely a Republican hatchet job, not a Democratic hatchet job. That's not the type of place they'd leak this to. 

The likeliest explanation is that he's a fucking idiot and he's always been a fucking idiot. That's why he was a jarhead in the first place, that's why he and his boys got nazi tattoos they probably thought looked cool as shit, and that's why he's posted a mixture of completely fine and reasonable and very stupid shit all over Reddit (and probably elsewhere online) for the past decade. His politics have probably evolved somewhat but are likely still largely incoherent because he's an idiot, but he figured out how to speak in a register that appeals to liberals and leftists who are looking for someone who seems like they'll actually fight Republicans. I get the appeal and why people are trying to defend him, but this guy ain't it.   

Contested primaries are good. If he can’t beat MeeMaw he doesn’t deserve the nomination, but going out on apology tour is what sunk Beto against Cruz.
Platner should lean INTO his meathead past and shouldn’t apologize for jack shit. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Posted
15 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Things are pretty gotdam grim when we can’t easily cast aside the bonehead with an accidental SS tattoo because otherwise who will appeal to the Rogan chucklefucks.

Things ARE pretty fucking grim. These are the punk rock times we were born for. We go where eagles dare.

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Posted
44 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Contested primaries are good. If he can’t beat MeeMaw he doesn’t deserve the nomination, but going out on apology tour is what sunk Beto against Cruz.
Platner should lean INTO his meathead past and shouldn’t apologize for jack shit. 

Assuming he doesn't drop out before the primary.

Posted
57 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Assuming he doesn't drop out before the primary.

That would be chickenshit. It would also be  good for Susan Collins and therefore bad for America.
Contested primaries and flawed candidates get attention and are therefore good. 

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Posted

I agree that the ignorance and stupidity should be disqualifying, but A) as far as I can tell none of us are Mainers so my opinion (and most of our opinions) on it should not factor into his next move, and B) we are way, way past the point of ignorance and stupidity mattering to voters. We need to do whatever it takes, within the bounds of contemporary decency, to flip this seat and hold onto it for at least six years. I don't think Janet Mills has what it takes to defeat Susan Collins, and it's by no means a sure thing that she would even live long enough to finish a six year term.

If it turns out to be the case that he was lying to the American people by trying to convince the Pod Johns he was ignorant of the Nazi symbol, that would be disqualifying.

If it turns out to be the case that he's antisemitic and/or white supremacist, that would be disqualifying.

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Posted

My informal poll of how often republicans show up on news stories vs democrats indicates about a 10:1 advantage for republicans. 

Given republicans control the presidency and congress, there certainly should be an advantage. But 10:1? The main constituency that is supposed to keep politicians from creating dictatorial control of the US is almost completely silent. The people at least are doing something, like the No Kings protests. But most Democrat politicians and the party? Worthless. 

This shutdown is the perfect example. Democrats should be hammering this over and over on the news. As a side note, I personally don’t like how the democrats have tackled the aca subsidies issue at all. But that’s a different discussion. 

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Posted
12 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Contested primaries are good. If he can’t beat MeeMaw he doesn’t deserve the nomination, but going out on apology tour is what sunk Beto against Cruz.
Platner should lean INTO his meathead past and shouldn’t apologize for jack shit. 

Concur.

 

My wife listened to the whole PSA interview yesterday, she was had a generally positive view of him, mainly because of his earnestness. 

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Posted (edited)

I haven't followed this Platner tattoo controversy closely. My initial reaction is that it shouldn't automatically be disqualifying, but sure doesn't help how aggressive he's been with (fairly) criticizing the Democratic establishment. Like, not having a fucking SS tattoo (or at least removing it) sure fucking helps when trying to break through as a modern progressive. Fucking idiot. 

I am all for very progressive candidates. But all these leftists defending him have killed other decent Democratic candidates for way less questionable backgrounds. Flip flopping on the purity tests is bullshit and annoying. 

 

 

Edited by Hank Kingsley
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Posted

Betting that “vote for the most bipartisan Senator in Congress over the guy with a Nazi tattoo” won’t work on the normies that don’t follow politics is a hell of a gamble.

Not saying he can’t be the candidate, but you better have irrefutable evidence that he can overcome “do you really want to vote for Hitler??!?” commercials during every college football commercial break next year.

Posted
1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I haven't followed this Platner tattoo controversy closely. My initial reaction is that it shouldn't automatically be disqualifying, but sure doesn't help how aggressive he's been with (fairly) criticizing the Democratic establishment. Like, not having a fucking SS tattoo (or at least removing it) sure fucking helps when trying to break through as a modern progressive. Fucking idiot. 

I am all for very progressive candidates. But all these leftists defending him have killed other decent Democratic candidates for way less questionable backgrounds. Flip flopping on the purity tests is bullshit and annoying. 

 

 

I mean it's almost a certainty this dude has killed people and at some point wasn't just doing it because it was his duty to country. 

 

Posted

The ugly truth is that there, but for the grace of god, go many working class men. They are directionless, insecure, malleable, and want to feel like they're part of something. It's kind of a fluke in Platner's case that he didn't end up in the alt-right echo chamber during the 2010s because it was designed to ensnare people like him. How the hell do you get peer pressured into getting a "scary looking skull and crossbones" when you're 23, re-enlist and redeploy a bunch of times, join fucking Blackwater, and not turn out to be a MAGAt?

On one side, you have the most annoying liberals in the world telling these men how terrible they are for failing to recognize their own misogyny and white privilege. And in a veteran's case you also have the most annoying Leftists in the world telling these men how terrible they are for "killing babies" and "murdering brown people" because they willingly joined the military. You are totally irredeemable, no matter how much you try to take accountability and become a better person and there's no place for you.

On the other side, you have the most deplorable reactionary fascists, telling these men how much society has taken from them, and how they should never apologize for being an "alpha male" who fights for traditional values. It's okay if you have skeletons in your closet or skulls on your chest. "Cancel culture" is bullshit, and you're always welcome on their podcasts.

A sociopolitical movement that fights for the working class must also accept uncomfortable truths about the working class. That does not mean Graham Platner is a qualified candidate or that candidates should be held to a lower standard. It definitely does not mean that adopting a platform for the working class can (or should) exempt a candidate from the consequences of having and failing to remove a Nazi tattoo.

In light of these thoughts and observations, I have two points to make on the subject of electoral calculus.

First, by making redemption impossible, you concede crucial votes to your opposition. A party that claims it wants to win back younger men must reckon with the fact that these voters have said and done terrible things; that they have said and done ignorant things. The party should signal loudly and clearly that it is willing to offer amnesty to all who approach with good intentions. I won't get into the nitty gritty of the terms or conditions of that amnesty, but they should ensure the safety of marginalized communities without asking for excessive or performative self-flagellation. You can't please everyone, so don't try. The goal is to win back younger men without selling anyone else out.

Now, I've seen many BlueSky libs and Leftists hand-wringing about Platner. Leftists who hate him because he joined the military and is a white, cisgender, heterosexual male. Liberals who hate him because he's pro-Palestine and is a white, cisgender, heterosexual male. The most persuasive argument they've made is that it's not too late to replace him with someone better (e.g., a Bernie bro without the baggage). Which brings me to my next point.

Second, Maine is a small state and Platner is the only person who has actually rolled up his sleeves and done the work to organize people around a platform like Mamdani's that prioritizes affordability and the working class. The reason corporate and AIPAC-aligned libs along with corporate and AIPAC-aligned fascists are so motivated to take Platner out early is because they perceive him to be a threat to their interests. Make no mistake: He is the only viable threat to their interests from Maine. There is nobody else waiting in the wings, and even if there were, that person hasn't actually put in the work required to mount a serious challenge to Susan Collins. It pains me to say this, but this is Maine's only shot. I'm encouraged to hear that he's getting the tattoo removed, and because the stakes are so high, I hope he stays in the race.

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Posted
16 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

The Pod Save interview was clearly an attempt to try to get out in front of the Jewish Insider story, which was most likely a Republican hatchet job, not a Democratic hatchet job. That's not the type of place they'd leak this to. 

The likeliest explanation is that he's a fucking idiot and he's always been a fucking idiot. That's why he was a jarhead in the first place, that's why he and his boys got nazi tattoos they probably thought looked cool as shit, and that's why he's posted a mixture of completely fine and reasonable and very stupid shit all over Reddit (and probably elsewhere online) for the past decade. His politics have probably evolved somewhat but are likely still largely incoherent because he's an idiot, but he figured out how to speak in a register that appeals to liberals and leftists who are looking for someone who seems like they'll actually fight Republicans. I get the appeal and why people are trying to defend him, but this guy ain't it.   

Nobody gives a fuck about info from Jewish Insider.  The tattoo story got legs right before the podcast interview so the guy had to ask about it.  They might’ve discussed it before the interview but it’s extremely unlikely that the Jewish Insider piece was why he went on the podcast.

If the tattoo really does have nazi affiliation, and the dude was made aware of it anytime before 2 weeks ago, and didn’t get it removed, then he’s an epic dumbass, and that would be what would disqualify him as a candidate.  And it’s damning of the Democratic Party leadership that this wasn’t sniffed out before he even announced his candidacy.  But it’s really not plausible that the guy is some secret nazi or ever actually held nazi beliefs.

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Posted
14 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

The ugly truth is that there, but for the grace of god, go many working class men. They are directionless, insecure, malleable, and want to feel like they're part of something. It's kind of a fluke in Platner's case that he didn't end up in the alt-right echo chamber during the 2010s because it was designed to ensnare people like him. How the hell do you get peer pressured into getting a "scary looking skull and crossbones" when you're 23, re-enlist and redeploy a bunch of times, join fucking Blackwater, and not turn out to be a MAGAt?

On one side, you have the most annoying liberals in the world telling these men how terrible they are for failing to recognize their own misogyny and white privilege. And in a veteran's case you also have the most annoying Leftists in the world telling these men how terrible they are for "killing babies" and "murdering brown people" because they willingly joined the military. You are totally irredeemable, no matter how much you try to take accountability and become a better person and there's no place for you.

On the other side, you have the most deplorable reactionary fascists, telling these men how much society has taken from them, and how they should never apologize for being an "alpha male" who fights for traditional values. It's okay if you have skeletons in your closet or skulls on your chest. "Cancel culture" is bullshit, and you're always welcome on their podcasts.

A sociopolitical movement that fights for the working class must also accept uncomfortable truths about the working class. That does not mean Graham Platner is a qualified candidate or that candidates should be held to a lower standard. It definitely does not mean that adopting a platform for the working class can (or should) exempt a candidate from the consequences of having and failing to remove a Nazi tattoo.

In light of these thoughts and observations, I have two points to make on the subject of electoral calculus.

First, by making redemption impossible, you concede crucial votes to your opposition. A party that claims it wants to win back younger men must reckon with the fact that these voters have said and done terrible things; that they have said and done ignorant things. The party should signal loudly and clearly that it is willing to offer amnesty to all who approach with good intentions. I won't get into the nitty gritty of the terms or conditions of that amnesty, but they should ensure the safety of marginalized communities without asking for excessive or performative self-flagellation. You can't please everyone, so don't try. The goal is to win back younger men without selling anyone else out.

Now, I've seen many BlueSky libs and Leftists hand-wringing about Platner. Leftists who hate him because he joined the military and is a white, cisgender, heterosexual male. Liberals who hate him because he's pro-Palestine and is a white, cisgender, heterosexual male. The most persuasive argument they've made is that it's not too late to replace him with someone better (e.g., a Bernie bro without the baggage). Which brings me to my next point.

Second, Maine is a small state and Platner is the only person who has actually rolled up his sleeves and done the work to organize people around a platform like Mamdani's that prioritizes affordability and the working class. The reason corporate and AIPAC-aligned libs along with corporate and AIPAC-aligned fascists are so motivated to take Platner out early is because they perceive him to be a threat to their interests. Make no mistake: He is the only viable threat to their interests from Maine. There is nobody else waiting in the wings, and even if there were, that person hasn't actually put in the work required to mount a serious challenge to Susan Collins. It pains me to say this, but this is Maine's only shot. I'm encouraged to hear that he's getting the tattoo removed, and because the stakes are so high, I hope he stays in the race.

I appreciate and agree with the grace you are showing here. The dude needs to stay in the race and let the chips fall where they may. 

But this also needs to be a lesson for the left. That grace needs to be extended to other Dem candidates that don't fit into their tight window of beliefs. People make mistakes. It is a good think to adapt and change opinions as you get older and wiser. Very few people are on the "right" side of things their entire life. Stop making that a prerequisite. 

 

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

Nobody gives a fuck about info from Jewish Insider.  The tattoo story got legs right before the podcast interview so the guy had to ask about it.  They might’ve discussed it before the interview but it’s extremely unlikely that the Jewish Insider piece was why he went on the podcast.

If the tattoo really does have nazi affiliation, and the dude was made aware of it anytime before 2 weeks ago, and didn’t get it removed, then he’s an epic dumbass, and that would be what would disqualify him as a candidate.  And it’s damning of the Democratic Party leadership that this wasn’t sniffed out before he even announced his candidacy.  But it’s really not plausible that the guy is some secret nazi or ever actually held nazi beliefs.

You realize that Democratic party leadership just spent months coaxing a candidate into the race to run against him, right? He was never their choice. He didn't have to get party approval to run, that's not how it works. And it's absolutely plausible that he once held nazi beliefs, because he got a fucking SS death camp guard logo tattooed on himself.

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Posted
27 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

The ugly truth is that there, but for the grace of god, go many working class men. They are directionless, insecure, malleable, and want to feel like they're part of something. It's kind of a fluke in Platner's case that he didn't end up in the alt-right echo chamber during the 2010s because it was designed to ensnare people like him. How the hell do you get peer pressured into getting a "scary looking skull and crossbones" when you're 23, re-enlist and redeploy a bunch of times, join fucking Blackwater, and not turn out to be a MAGAt?

On one side, you have the most annoying liberals in the world telling these men how terrible they are for failing to recognize their own misogyny and white privilege. And in a veteran's case you also have the most annoying Leftists in the world telling these men how terrible they are for "killing babies" and "murdering brown people" because they willingly joined the military. You are totally irredeemable, no matter how much you try to take accountability and become a better person and there's no place for you.

On the other side, you have the most deplorable reactionary fascists, telling these men how much society has taken from them, and how they should never apologize for being an "alpha male" who fights for traditional values. It's okay if you have skeletons in your closet or skulls on your chest. "Cancel culture" is bullshit, and you're always welcome on their podcasts.

A sociopolitical movement that fights for the working class must also accept uncomfortable truths about the working class. That does not mean Graham Platner is a qualified candidate or that candidates should be held to a lower standard. It definitely does not mean that adopting a platform for the working class can (or should) exempt a candidate from the consequences of having and failing to remove a Nazi tattoo.

In light of these thoughts and observations, I have two points to make on the subject of electoral calculus.

First, by making redemption impossible, you concede crucial votes to your opposition. A party that claims it wants to win back younger men must reckon with the fact that these voters have said and done terrible things; that they have said and done ignorant things. The party should signal loudly and clearly that it is willing to offer amnesty to all who approach with good intentions. I won't get into the nitty gritty of the terms or conditions of that amnesty, but they should ensure the safety of marginalized communities without asking for excessive or performative self-flagellation. You can't please everyone, so don't try. The goal is to win back younger men without selling anyone else out.

Now, I've seen many BlueSky libs and Leftists hand-wringing about Platner. Leftists who hate him because he joined the military and is a white, cisgender, heterosexual male. Liberals who hate him because he's pro-Palestine and is a white, cisgender, heterosexual male. The most persuasive argument they've made is that it's not too late to replace him with someone better (e.g., a Bernie bro without the baggage). Which brings me to my next point.

Second, Maine is a small state and Platner is the only person who has actually rolled up his sleeves and done the work to organize people around a platform like Mamdani's that prioritizes affordability and the working class. The reason corporate and AIPAC-aligned libs along with corporate and AIPAC-aligned fascists are so motivated to take Platner out early is because they perceive him to be a threat to their interests. Make no mistake: He is the only viable threat to their interests from Maine. There is nobody else waiting in the wings, and even if there were, that person hasn't actually put in the work required to mount a serious challenge to Susan Collins. It pains me to say this, but this is Maine's only shot. I'm encouraged to hear that he's getting the tattoo removed, and because the stakes are so high, I hope he stays in the race.

Fuck all this. He's 41 and he got that tattoo in 2007. We're talking years before gamergate. He's not a fucking zoomer who grew up surrounded by pro-nazi messages from the country's most powerful people.  You're inventing a completely fictional story for him that you want to believe because you want him to be the guy you think he is. Use your head here. Shit, given his background, if he sounded more like Conor Lamb than Bernie you'd probably be saying he's an obvious CIA plant.   

Posted
Just now, wildcat09 said:

he got that tattoo in 2007

Most people have no idea what the hell the design meant. It was not taught in my school, and I can totally buy that it wasn't taught at his school wherever the hell he went to high school. If he's not a Secret Nazi, he should stay in the race.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Most people have no idea what the hell the design meant. It was not taught in my school, and I can totally buy that it wasn't taught at his school wherever the hell he went to high school. If he's not a Secret Nazi, he should stay in the race.

He knew what it was, man. There's no way a self-described "history buff" who was in the fucking marines didn't know what that was. His own fucking campaign manager says he knew what it was. Think about it, what kind of Croatian tattoo shop would be offering a totenkopf as an option? You think that was the only nazi tattoo available on their wall? You don't think it was probably next to a fucking swastika? Do you seriously think he's had that tattoo for 18 fucking years and only now a couple of days ago learned what it was? Do you make a habit out of handing strangers your wallet or of buying oceanfront property in Arizona?

He's not who you wanted him to be. Wishing otherwise ain't gonna change that. Maybe he always meant to get it removed but just never got around to it. Maybe he didn't want to get it removed because he thought it looked cool regardless of its status as a nazi symbol.  Maybe he didn't want to get it removed because he's secretly a nazi who does want national socialism and he's just been hiding the national part of that. Maybe he's a fucking CIA plant. None of us can know, but even the best explanation is that he's incomprehensibly dumb, which would make him useless. And all of the other explanations are much worse than that. 

 

Posted
3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

He knew what it was, man. There's no way a self-described "history buff" who was in the fucking marines didn't know what that was. His own fucking campaign manager says he knew what it was. Think about it, what kind of Croatian tattoo shop would be offering a totenkopf as an option? You think that was the only nazi tattoo available on their wall? You don't think it was probably next to a fucking swastika? Do you seriously think he's had that tattoo for 18 fucking years and only now a couple of days ago learned what it was? Do you make a habit out of handing strangers your wallet or of buying oceanfront property in Arizona?

He's not who you wanted him to be. Wishing otherwise ain't gonna change that. Maybe he always meant to get it removed but just never got around to it. Maybe he didn't want to get it removed because he thought it looked cool regardless of its status as a nazi symbol.  Maybe he didn't want to get it removed because he's secretly a nazi who does want national socialism and he's just been hiding the national part of that. Maybe he's a fucking CIA plant. None of us can know, but even the best explanation is that he's incomprehensibly dumb, which would make him useless. And all of the other explanations are much worse than that. 

 

This. There is no fucking way he didn't know what it was if he got it in a Croatian tattoo shop. There's a reason the Croatian have a reputation related to their WW2 activities. It wasn't an accident. 

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Posted

And to be clear, this has nothing to do with whether people can change, or redemption is possible, or we should forgive people for not being perfect, or anything like that shit. He still has the fucking tattoo. He's had it for 18 years. Maybe he just got it because he was a young edgy guy who thought it looked cool and didn't really care about its nazi affiliation. But then him keeping it despite his supposed political maturation is very fucking revealing! It's telling that he cares so little about opposing fascism that he couldn't be bothered to have a nazi tattoo removed.

Boys and young men do and say stupid shit. It's a very real problem now that boys growing up today have a lot of authority figures and other culturally influential figures telling them the nazis were cool and good. They certainly deserve an opportunity to learn and to grow and to be allowed to participate in society once they do. This isn't that. Platner grew up watching Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers and playing Medal of Honor and Wolfenstein. Platner grew up in an era where literally every authority figure and influential cultural figure told you one or two things about nazis: (1) they're bumbling dipshit losers, and/or (2) they're strung-out meth addicts who got forced into a white power prison gang. Platner's parents were professionals, they almost certainly weren't anything close to nazis. He's not some kid who was raised wrong, but learned better. He thought he could run for a fucking senate seat with a goddamned nazi tattoo. Either the tattoo was actually important to him or he thought it wouldn't be a big deal.  Either option is entirely disqualifying. 

Posted
27 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Most people have no idea what the hell the design meant. It was not taught in my school, and I can totally buy that it wasn't taught at his school wherever the hell he went to high school. If he's not a Secret Nazi, he should stay in the race.

Would you vote for him?

Posted
8 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

He's not who you wanted him to be.

Either he's a Nazi or he isn't. The only evidence we've seen that he's a Secret Nazi is pretty weak. Would he really buy into all that white supremacy bullshit without a crew of like-minded boneheads to whom he'd have by now been linked? That strikes me as pretty fucking odd.

What does it mean to be a history buff anyways? Is it like people who do their own research about vaccines? What it comes down to for me is that if he ever was a Nazi he shouldn't be lying about that. The lies would be disqualifying.

But let's be sober about this. We have plenty of dudes out there who got Nazi tattoos with varying degrees of awareness what they were doing at the time, and we want those guys to have a viable path towards renouncing those ideas and symbols and reintegrating with society. If the far right remains their only viable option, that leads to much worse scenarios. You end up on the JD Vance pipeline.

Sitting here today in October 2025, there's far more evidence that Platner is an anti-fascist than there is evidence he's a Secret Nazi.

Posted (edited)

Is there any value to the notion that Platner, or a candidate like him, could argue that as a young man he was caught up in edgy internet culture, the precursors to groypers, and the "manosphere," but has come to realize how he was deceived and how wrong and immature are those positions and policies behind them.  Thus, making him a "considered liberal" who has "been there and done that."

Edited by TwiceHorn
Posted
2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Would you vote for him?

If he stays in the race and he's the best candidate, I would. If it turns out he truly is a Nazi, or has lied about having been a Nazi in the past, I would not.

Posted
1 minute ago, chainsaw said:

Either he's a Nazi or he isn't. The only evidence we've seen that he's a Secret Nazi is pretty weak. Would he really buy into all that white supremacy bullshit without a crew of like-minded boneheads to whom he'd have by now been linked? That strikes me as pretty fucking odd.

What does it mean to be a history buff anyways? Is it like people who do their own research about vaccines? What it comes down to for me is that if he ever was a Nazi he shouldn't be lying about that. The lies would be disqualifying.

But let's be sober about this. We have plenty of dudes out there who got Nazi tattoos with varying degrees of awareness what they were doing at the time, and we want those guys to have a viable path towards renouncing those ideas and symbols and reintegrating with society. If the far right remains their only viable option, that leads to much worse scenarios. You end up on the JD Vance pipeline.

Sitting here today in October 2025, there's far more evidence that Platner is an anti-fascist than there is evidence he's a Secret Nazi.

Cool.

Why does he still have the tattoo?

Posted
1 minute ago, chainsaw said:

Either he's a Nazi or he isn't. The only evidence we've seen that he's a Secret Nazi is pretty weak. Would he really buy into all that white supremacy bullshit without a crew of like-minded boneheads to whom he'd have by now been linked? That strikes me as pretty fucking odd.

What does it mean to be a history buff anyways? Is it like people who do their own research about vaccines? What it comes down to for me is that if he ever was a Nazi he shouldn't be lying about that. The lies would be disqualifying.

But let's be sober about this. We have plenty of dudes out there who got Nazi tattoos with varying degrees of awareness what they were doing at the time, and we want those guys to have a viable path towards renouncing those ideas and symbols and reintegrating with society. If the far right remains their only viable option, that leads to much worse scenarios. You end up on the JD Vance pipeline.

Sitting here today in October 2025, there's far more evidence that Platner is an anti-fascist than there is evidence he's a Secret Nazi.

The fuck there is. No real antifascist would walk around with a fucking nazi tattoo for 18 years!

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
34 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

You realize that Democratic party leadership just spent months coaxing a candidate into the race to run against him, right? He was never their choice. He didn't have to get party approval to run, that's not how it works. And it's absolutely plausible that he once held nazi beliefs, because he got a fucking SS death camp guard logo tattooed on himself.

I know the party didn’t have to approve him entering the race.  But he didn’t come completely out of nowhere.  Even if he did (he didn’t), the party should have immediately sniffed this out and called it out.  “Whoa whoa whoa this dude is not one of us, he has a Nazi tattoo, errbody take a step back from this mf” is not that hard to do.  It’s especially important because now the guy’s campaign has momentum and dollars that could have gone elsewhere.

If the tattoo is affiliated with nazism and he didn’t get it removed immediately after finding that out, he is an epic dumbshit and should be out of the race, for being too stupid to be a Senator.  But there is no reality where he is a secret Nazi.

Posted
1 minute ago, chainsaw said:

If he stays in the race and he's the best candidate, I would. If it turns out he truly is a Nazi, or has lied about having been a Nazi in the past, I would not.

Even if he doesn't start the process of having it removed?

Posted
Just now, wildcat09 said:

The fuck there is. No real antifascist would walk around with a fucking nazi tattoo for 18 years!

I think you're way too focused on aesthetics in this case. What has he said or done that a Nazi would support?

Posted
1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Is there any value to the notion that Platner, or a candidate like him, could argue that as a young man he was caught up in edgy internet culture, the precursors to groypers, and the "manosphere," but has come to realize how he was deceived and how wrong and immature those positions and policies behind them.  Thus, making him a "considered liberal" who has "been there and done that."

He could've done that had he removed or altered the tattoo at literally any time before it became a political scandal. But he didn't and when he realized someone was going to report on it he ran to a friendly podcast to tell some obvious lies about it.  It's kinda hard to believe anything he says about it now.

Posted

I can't even analyze the tattoo thing because it is so anathema.  I'm not sure what anyone is thinking when they get a tat or what the thought process is about having them removed.  If I had somehow acquired a tattoo, one of my first sober thoughts would be about removing it.

I know there are a lot of people on the board with ink.  I just cannot relate to that.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted (edited)

How many fucking people do y'all think have nazi tattoos? What percentage of voters are you worried about alienating here? What percentage of voters do you think will be alienated by pretending that a candidate having a nazi tattoo shouldn't be a big deal? Think about the world in which "has a nazi tattoo" is a completely acceptable thing for a fucking Democratic candidate for public office to have. Think about what that would tell young men. Think about what it would tell Jews. Fuck, think about what it would tell all the young people who've recently been stomped on for advocating for Palestinian lives, which was characterized as unacceptable anti-Semitism.

In two months those of you still stanning this guy are all going to be looking back at yourselves wondering how you could've been so dumb. I'm just trying to save y'all the time here. You know I'm right. 

Edited by wildcat09
  • Hook 'Em 2
Posted
2 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Either he's a Nazi or he isn't.

Respectfully, this is not what matters.  What matters is “can he be painted to be a Nazi to the general public?”

We are all here arguing about this man’s true intentions when the only fucking thing that matters is if he can win a general election.

Traditionally, being labeled a Nazi is not a successful recipe for a Democrat.  What is his plan to overcome that?

Posted
Just now, Chuckie Finster said:

Respectfully, this is not what matters.  What matters is “can he be painted to be a Nazi to the general public?”

We are all here arguing about this man’s true intentions when the only fucking thing that matters is if he can win a general election.

Traditionally, being labeled a Nazi is not a successful recipe for a Democrat.  What is his plan to overcome that?

Liberals are afraid of their own shadows, I swear to god.

This whole oppo dump rhymes an awful lot with the "Mamdani is a jihadi rapper" saga. Totally playing to people's prejudices.

The brown Muslim must be a secret terrorist, and the white guy from rural America must be a secret Nazi, ergo we just gotta elect the centrist!

Let the people of Maine decide.

Posted
2 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

has the supposed tattoo been confirmed by anything other than a random tabloid?

Yeah man, he confirmed he had it. 

Posted
26 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

This. There is no fucking way he didn't know what it was if he got it in a Croatian tattoo shop. There's a reason the Croatian have a reputation related to their WW2 activities. It wasn't an accident. 

You're thinking about it from an educated perspective. An active duty jarhead in his early 20s barely knows other countries exist, let alone their history or where they are located.

  • Like 1
Posted
3 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

has the supposed tattoo been confirmed by anything other than a random tabloid?

 

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Yeah man, he confirmed he had it. 

It's also in the video and you can see it with your eyes

Posted
1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Yeah man, he confirmed he had it. 

ah, I see. welp. on to the next candidate

Just now, Brian Fantana said:

 

It's also in the video and you can see it with your eyes

I didn't click because I don't care enough,

Posted
1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

You're thinking about it from an educated perspective. An active duty jarhead in his early 20s barely knows other countries exist, let alone their history or where they are located.

An active duty jarhead probably can't solve 2+6 correctly, but they're a lot more likely to recognize nazi military insignia. 

Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

An active duty jarhead probably can't solve 2+6 correctly, but they're a lot more likely to recognize nazi military insignia. 

Yeah. The kind of Croatian tattoo shop that will put a totenkopf on you has other Nazi imagery on the wall or in the book he looked at. For about 1/2 of Croatians, the countries collaboration with the Nazi's post invasion is a national shame. For about a 1/4 however, they don't think it was wrong, just that they lost. 

Edited by Bateshorn
Posted

I think he's omitting some unflattering stuff about his time being drunk in Croatia. Does it make him a Nazi? Not really. But the way he tells the story, like it was a groupthink bonding thing, sort of makes it sound like someone else made the decision for him.

He's either lying about that (it was his choice) which is bad or he's downplaying the kind of shitheads he would hang out with while in the Marines, which is also bad. Seth Harp wrote a book about how some of these unsavory characters can operate within the military.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/fort-bragg-cartel-murders-1235394302/

Now I won't go so far as to say he joined a gang-like organization while in the Marines, but it can't really be ruled out. And yes, it can't be ruled out that the organization was Nazi-adjacent or Nazi-sympathetic (like a prison gang would be).

I can see how he would be ashamed of it, but like he said, if he believed it the tattoo itself stood for something that needed to be concealed, wouldn't he also have tried harder to cover it up?

So, I don't really know what to make of it. More information could come out, and I will drop my support if it turns out he was lying or if it turns out he supports or condones white supremacy in any way.

Posted
1 minute ago, chainsaw said:

I think he's omitting some unflattering stuff about his time being drunk in Croatia. Does it make him a Nazi? Not really. But the way he tells the story, like it was a groupthink bonding thing, sort of makes it sound like someone else made the decision for him.

He's either lying about that (it was his choice) which is bad or he's downplaying the kind of shitheads he would hang out with while in the Marines, which is also bad. Seth Harp wrote a book about how some of these unsavory characters can operate within the military.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/fort-bragg-cartel-murders-1235394302/

Now I won't go so far as to say he joined a gang-like organization while in the Marines, but it can't really be ruled out. And yes, it can't be ruled out that the organization was Nazi-adjacent or Nazi-sympathetic (like a prison gang would be).

I can see how he would be ashamed of it, but like he said, if he believed it the tattoo itself stood for something that needed to be concealed, wouldn't he also have tried harder to cover it up?

So, I don't really know what to make of it. More information could come out, and I will drop my support if it turns out he was lying or if it turns out he supports or condones white supremacy in any way.

Think harder about this. 



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