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Posted
25 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Fantastic post.  Decency and empathy are the very things that "made America great" 

I love you, but no. 

The foundational fabric of this country is hatred and abuse cloaked in enterprise, commerce, and religion. 

A result of the climate of hate... 

 

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Posted
7 minutes ago, BevoAbyss said:

Agree, this is quite possible. It is utterly naive and dangerous to think the military is immune to -- or outside of -- the dominant beliefs ideologies in our culture. I bet there are tons of "patriotic" soldiers who are MAGA-GQP, wouldn't surprise me if military MAGA is close to the percent of the population supporting Trump: about 45%. 

If the soldiers have a smart phone and internet connection, they can slide down into the Q rabbit hole and right into fascist Team USA. And be roused to violence by Trump, Bannon, and their fascist lackies. That's a powder keg waiting to explode in the days after a contentious, close election. 

Your theory hinges on the idea that the majority of these idealogues will ignore their oath, and that's just fucking stupid.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

There is a deep state, but it’s not a secret cabal of the powerful. It is what Robert Heinlein called “Our Noble, Essential Decency” in his Famous essay for “This I believe,” as follows:

This basic but noble, essential decency is the matter and substance and prime directive of the “deep state”, for all of its bumbling. Decency is precisely the thing that Donald Trump and his partners in diminishment seek to eliminate from government and more broadly, from the culture, and every edgelord cynic like @Anastasis or dumbass conspiracy loon or deluded partisan is their witting or unwitting accomplice in that nasty and dehumanizing work, and it saddens and angers us. But as long as decency matters, the Deep State lives. 

Thanks for the name drop. I do like they last line though. Has a “the real treasure is the friends we make along the way”vibe to it. Carry on. In the mean time I will really think about this notion that government bureaucracy is really a function of humanizing decency. 

Edited by Anastasis
Posted
1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Fantastic post.  Decency and empathy are the very things that "made America great" (and no, they are not and have not been perfect)...

The "deep state" is we the motherfucking people.  And a hale and hearty "fuck off" to those who would try to destroy that.

Unsurprising jingoistic lack of self reflection on what America is and always has been. We had a moment though, granted. 

Posted
1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

There is a deep state, but it’s not a secret cabal of the powerful. It is what Robert Heinlein called “Our Noble, Essential Decency” in his Famous essay for “This I believe,” as follows:

This basic but noble, essential decency is the matter and substance and prime directive of the “deep state”, for all of its bumbling. Decency is precisely the thing that Donald Trump and his partners in diminishment seek to eliminate from government and more broadly, from the culture, and every edgelord cynic like @Anastasis or dumbass conspiracy loon or deluded partisan is their witting or unwitting accomplice in that nasty and dehumanizing work, and it saddens and angers us. But as long as decency matters, the Deep State lives. 

There's an evolutionary (and to a degree) necessary negative bias in human nature. Newspapers aren't going to report the local 7-11 wasn't robbed and the vast majority of human interactions that occurred there were ones of trust. 

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Posted
Unsurprising jingoistic lack of self reflection on what America is and always has been. We had a moment though, granted. 

We spent the better part of two centuries getting better, not worse (and yeah…we had a LONG way to go, and faltered plenty of times). Now, we have a whole party determined to take us backwards.

But by all means, do tell how the very people you grew up with and still live in your neighborhoods who are serving on city councils, boards, and commissions, often for little or no pay, taking constant flack, are the corrupt bad guys.
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Posted
1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:


We spent the better part of two centuries getting better, not worse (and yeah…we had a LONG way to go, and faltered plenty of times). Now, we have a whole party determined to take us backwards.

But by all means, do tell how the very people you grew up with and still live in your neighborhoods who are serving on city councils, boards, and commissions, often for little or no pay, taking constant flack, are the corrupt bad guys.

First paragraph requires very selective framing and a good measure of delusion. Second is typical brisket straw man shit. 

I am not really sure why y’all are trying to force the square peg into a round hole, other than that it serves to prop up the typical jingoistic bullshit you two spew about stuff like the Pax Americana and the rules based international order.  But yes, tell us all more about decency and dehumanization  

 

Posted
10 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

First paragraph requires very selective framing and a good measure of delusion. 

 

i’m not sure if you like history. If you do consider yourself an historian, you are one of the worst ones that I’ve met.

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Posted
First paragraph requires very selective framing and a good measure of delusion. Second is typical brisket straw man shit. 

I am not really sure why y’all are trying to force the square peg into a round hole, other than that it serves to prop up the typical jingoistic bullshit you two spew about stuff like the Pax Americana and the rules based international order.  But yes, tell us all more about decency and dehumanization  
 

Nyet.
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Posted
8 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

i’m not sure if you like history. If you do consider yourself an historian, you are one of the worst ones that I’ve met.

Oh good. Tell us all about the historical role of government bureaucracy in spreading the feels of liberty, humanity, and decency throughout the world. Pick a century as a starting point and trace from there. Or a decade whatever. Some have shorter attention spans than others. 

Posted
Just now, BevoAbyss said:

Thanks for the insult, yet again. Looks like my atheism/existentialism is still bothering you. 

I normally don't reply to insults, but will this one time. After this, it is adios, JJ.

 

Oh, no!  Not "adios"!!!

Posted

Well this 1 in 5 thing just sucks. Not too surprised given depth of media segmentation along political lines. Even when Fox isn’t bending the truth super hard right, their advertisers sound alarm after alarm. Buy gold! The banks are collapsing! Protect your internets! Your house will burn down! 

The foresight to get rid of cable TV 15 years ago probably saved this vet. Well that and degrees from UT 

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/21/958915267/nearly-one-in-five-defendants-in-capitol-riot-cases-served-in-the-military

IMG_2482.jpeg

Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

You can settle after you've already been found liable?

Can't see the post.  But yeah, you can lose at trial, file an appeal and, especially if the appeal has potential merit, settle the case for less than the trial verdict.  

You can threaten bankruptcy.  You can claim that the plaintiff won't find enough money to satisfy the judgment in full through ordinary collections, but here's a cashier's check for less.

All time-honored ways of settling a civil case.  A judgment must be enforced.  That doesn't mean the cops go to their house and say "cough up" or go to debtor's prison.  There is almost always some uncertainty in whether you will collect the full amount of the judgment.  So if a defendant offers good funds payable today, that has a lot of appeal as long as it's not too big a discount.

ETA:  Now I see it.  Oh hell yeah they're trying to settle.  The monetary amount hasn't been fixed or ascertained, so that's negotiable.  Some kind of something short of a forced sale or transfer to new owners is probably what they are trying to get.  As I have mentioned, I am not 100% convinced that the court of appeals will uphold the cancellation of business licenses, so even that is a bit up in the air.  Something like a transfer of the properties to something not 100% Trump controlled or something.  Or five years to GTFO.  Who knows.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Posted
18 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Oh good. Tell us all about the historical role of government bureaucracy in spreading the feels of liberty, humanity, and decency throughout the world. Pick a century as a starting point and trace from there. Or a decade whatever. Some have shorter attention spans than others. 

Quote

"She saved our farm, 400 something acres, almost 500 acres," said Roger Spooner. "She saved our farm."

Again, newspapers and history give less attention to things that aren't fucked up, and the only reason this (admitted) anecdote is Google-able is because of false allegations shit was fucked up. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/usdas-shirley-sherrod-i-helped-white-farmer/

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Posted
in civil matters you can always settle.  before suit, during suit, after being found liable, exhausted appeals, judgment full, final, and collectible, etc.  the question is what can you promise in settlement and what will the other side accept.  you may settle after judgment (as a judgment holder) because finding and collecting upon assets may be difficult or costly, for example.
Your last sentence is really the rub, especially with fat boy, but really any wealthy honky, and it drives me fucking nuts. Commit crimes, maybe face justice in 10 years but you're dead so it slides.
Posted
3 minutes ago, Born to Run said:
4 hours ago, elfenix said:
in civil matters you can always settle.  before suit, during suit, after being found liable, exhausted appeals, judgment full, final, and collectible, etc.  the question is what can you promise in settlement and what will the other side accept.  you may settle after judgment (as a judgment holder) because finding and collecting upon assets may be difficult or costly, for example.

Your last sentence is really the rub, especially with fat boy, but really any wealthy honky, and it drives me fucking nuts. Commit crimes, maybe face justice in 10 years but you're dead so it slides.

Isn't he stuff (at least under the corporate umbrella) under the supervision of a conservator, and has been for some time now?  

Posted
This basic but noble, essential decency is the matter and substance and prime directive of the “deep state”, for all of its bumbling. Decency is precisely the thing that Donald Trump and his partners in diminishment seek to eliminate from government and more broadly, from the culture, and every edgelord cynic like [mention=179]Anastasis[/mention] or dumbass conspiracy loon or deluded partisan is their witting or unwitting accomplice in that nasty and dehumanizing work, and it saddens and angers us. But as long as decency matters, the Deep State lives. 
Great post. Sadly 40% of the country is brainwashed to fucking hate these kind folks regardless of the kind efforts they make. Angry asssholes are defied; the sweet hard working-class librarian is terrorized. I'm not sure how that is rewired.

Also as an aside, the formally noble working class are all on Tik Tok like zombies getting a dopamine hit in exchange for lost competency and productivity. I see it every day, it sucks
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Posted
Just now, Born to Run said:
9 minutes ago, BamaATL said:
Isn't he stuff (at least under the corporate umbrella) under the supervision of a conservator, and has been for some time now?  

Wut?

The Trump Company has been operating under the supervision of a conservator (court appointed, perhaps the wrong word) for about a year now.  So any settlement that is reached I would presume will also be conducted under the same supervision.  Basically, if a settlement is reached, I don't think he can easily dodge paying it out.  

Posted
3 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Oh good. Tell us all about the historical role of government bureaucracy in spreading the feels of liberty, humanity, and decency throughout the world. Pick a century as a starting point and trace from there. Or a decade whatever. Some have shorter attention spans than others. 

On behalf of those folks who believe in public service, and who live honorable, productive lives, fuck you, you hateful micropeen.

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

On behalf of those folks who believe in public service, and who live honorable, productive lives, fuck you, you hateful micropeen.

you are going to have to condense that to get it to fit on the side of the cop car. 

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Posted
you are going to have to condense that to get it to fit on the side of the cop car. 

You know, maybe the most damning part of your haughty condemnation is that it shits all over the regular folks you claim to champion.
Here’s a simple question: which public employees save the most lives every year?

It’s not cops. Or firefighters. Or soldiers.

It’s the people who keep our water and sewer plants running. Safe, clean drinking water saves hundreds of thousands of lives a year right here in the US. So does basic sanitation. We have that thanks to a shitload of working class folks who keep those systems running. And engineers and managers who run the operation. And elected officials who allocate taxes and public resources to massive operations and capital projects. Not because those are cool, and get them on TV, or get them rich. But because providing drinking water and sanitary sewers is part of the job, and is a good thing to do. Really, we only notice them when they fail…which is very, very rarely.
You’re so intent on straddling your high horse and cantering about like an imperious dandy that you completely miss the boring reality of hard-working decent folks doing their thing (those people are called “the government,” by the way). Which surprises absolutely nobody around here.
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Posted
6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:


You know, maybe the most damning part of your haughty condemnation is that it shits all over the regular folks you claim to champion.
Here’s a simple question: which public employees save the most lives every year?

It’s not cops. Or firefighters. Or soldiers.

It’s the people who keep our water and sewer plants running. Safe, clean drinking water saves hundreds of thousands of lives a year right here in the US. So does basic sanitation. We have that thanks to a shitload of working class folks who keep those systems running. And engineers and managers who run the operation. And elected officials who allocate taxes and public resources to massive operations and capital projects. Not because those are cool, and get them on TV, or get them rich. But because providing drinking water and sanitary sewers is part of the job, and is a good thing to do. Really, we only notice them when they fail…which is very, very rarely.
You’re so intent on straddling your high horse and cantering about like an imperious dandy that you completely miss the boring reality of hard-working decent folks doing their thing (those people are called “the government,” by the way). Which surprises absolutely nobody around here.

You two start an exchange about the "Deep State", bozo tags me in, I haven't used that term on this board other than quoting the people like you that evoke it, and then you start in with sewage management. "The largest political forum in the great state of Texas." 

 

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

which public employees save the most lives every year?

It’s not cops. Or firefighters. Or soldiers.

And which of these in concept do we invest the most resources into at the federal and state level? By an order of magnitude?

The projection by posters here is crazy. 

Posted
You two start an exchange about the "Deep State", bozo tags me in, I haven't used that term on this board other than quoting the people like you that evoke it, and then you start in with sewage management. "The largest political forum in the great state of Texas." 
 

You fucking self-absorbed self-righteous moron, you really don’t fucking get it do you? Jesus. This is fantastic. You really ARE that dense and stupid.

YES, you stupid fuck…sewage management IS politics. So is water. And sanitation. And roads. Etc. They’re the blocking and tackling of government, the thing that “politics” is all about. “The government” is US. People, folks, regular schlubs. They keep shit going while autofellating jackasses like you issue lofty - and meaningless - judgment. The juxtaposition couldn’t be more perfect, and your blindness to it is the icing on the cake.
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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

YES, you stupid fuck…sewage management IS ThE dEeP STaTe.

FIFY. 

 

Ike told y'all. Sorry if you didn't listen. Or comprehend. 

Edited by Anastasis
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Posted
And which of these in concept do we invest the most resources into at the federal and state level? By an order of magnitude?
The projection by posters here is crazy. 

State and federal level is an incomplete question - they have different charges. For example, the military budget of most states is…0. Because that’s not their charge. So the federal component of that is, gee, larger.
Your TOTAL tax dollars and fees paid? Yeah, the biggest slices go to blocking and tackling type stuff. Boring. Essential. And ignored by most. And on the Federal side, of TOTAL spending…the bulk of total spending is social security, Medicare, Medicaid, and other income support. Things that tens of millions of people depend upon for the basics. And yes, a good chunk to defense, an actual constitutional charge.
The vast majority of your government is decent people doing decent things. So fuck off.
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Posted

 

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

State and federal level is an incomplete question - they have different charges.

Only in this forum could you find a couple posters convinced that they are holding the line against the “Deep State” anarchists of their own imagination by trying to convince people that they only want to talk about social services. 

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Posted
 
Only in this forum could you find a couple posters convinced that they are holding the line against the “Deep State” anarchists of their own imagination by trying to convince people that they only want to talk about social services. 

Well, look on the bright side: you’re a self-congratulatory piece of shit in every forum. So, pin on that achievement ribbon.
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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The biggest doesn’t mean the best or the brightest, clearly. 

Aw. Things your wife said DID cheer you up. Bless her heart.

Edited by Willfully Horn
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Posted
4 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Aw. Things your wife said DID cheer you up. Bless her heart.


now that is why this forum is great. In the midst of hand waving the long history of institutionalized corruption in our government because functional shitters are good, you get a dick joke. 

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Anastasis said:


now that is why this forum is great. In the midst of hand waving the long history of institutionalized corruption in our government because functional shitters are good, you get a dick joke. 

Hey, your wife is full of them. 

Meanwhile, don’t sleep on flood and erosion control, water supply, maintenance, traffic flow, fire and health related response, as well as attempting to civilize and instruct the newest among us. You dismiss so many lives. Must be something you are taught to do on your job.

Low class ingrate.

Edited by Willfully Horn
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Posted
11 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Thanks for the name drop. I do like they last line though. Has a “the real treasure is the friends we make along the way”vibe to it. Carry on. In the mean time I will really think about this notion that government bureaucracy is really a function of humanizing decency. 

I get it, I really do. But accelerationism is not the answer.

Posted
6 hours ago, Anastasis said:

You two start an exchange about the "Deep State", bozo tags me in, I haven't used that term on this board other than quoting the people like you that evoke it, and then you start in with sewage management. "The largest political forum in the great state of Texas." 

 

But that’s the point- and more broadly, y’all are overthinking this.
There are certainly malign forces, bad incentives, systematic exclusionary hatreds and abuses, misguided and fucked up policy with armies to back it up and on and on. BUT there are no secret hands pulling the strings and directing traffic at the ground level.  In the United States, what we see is pretty much what we get. So when that one Republican  canvasser in Wisconsin or wherever refuses to put his thumb on the scale in 2016, he didn’t do it, because the fix was not in. Not yet. That’s what Is at risk. 

The insurgent outliers that you voted for in 2016 in the name of burning it all down talk about a deep state because they want to put one in place. They want to replace civil servants with ideologically screened patronage, and once done, that will filter down the line and we will regress to a previous era when you had to pay firemen to out out a fire at your house. 

This system you like to deride, where you get clean water and feel entitled to high integrity bridges because you pay taxes, or at the other end you can take free and mostly fair elections for granted, even in Texas - that is what is at stake.
So yes- sewage management (which is a triumphal innovation of representative government, btw) is the pinnacle of the deep state, and you can count on it because hundreds of people in your town do their jobs with nobody watching, and you can bitch all you want about the city council and it will still work. 

6 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

image.jpeg

I love this place.

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Posted (edited)

I used to think government was a complete bumbling bureaucracy, by its very nature.  But, people have pointed out that corporations are mostly bumbling bureaucracies, too, also by their very nature.  That nature, of course, being human nature.  So, we're all right on the bumbling bureaucracy score.

Corporations have one advantage (or disadvantage), though.  And that is, the number of stakeholders in any corporate decision or policy is relatively a lot lower than government, and, I think government does a better job of trying to accommodate its larger number of stakeholders.  The main stakeholder in a corporation being profit motive, of course, which can make things damned simple if you want to view them that way and many or most corps do.

Let me give a vivid example.  The US Patent & Trademark Office has had online filing for a really long time.  Like 20 years, way before court systems implemented it, and contemporaneously or earlier than other patent offices, including the "gold standard" European Patent Office, and the World Intellectual Property Organization.

When they went online, you uploaded pdf documents, as expected. But what then happened was clerks at the PTO printed those pdfs, scanned them, and uploaded them into the file maintenence system.  LOL WTF?  But then I came to understand that the PTO received protests from all those clerks that would immediately become unemployed (hundreds of them, maybe even thousands) if the electronic filings were automatically uploaded to the file maintenance system.  Plus, the printing out had the salutary function of providing an avenue by which the filings were reviewed for completeness (all pages there, all drawings, all legible, etc.).   And for a while, they maintained parallel paper files in case of technical glitches that might lose or corrupt electronic filings.  And in those early days of this type of technology, that was probably a smart thing to do.  Surprisingly, very few or no instances of galactic technical failure resulting in the loss/corruption of patent filings have occurred.

Over time, the PTO has moved to a more automated system where the uploads go directly into the file maintenance system.  But it has done so relatively gradually, minimizing the impact on those clerk people.

There were some other issues relating to making all patent documents available online in that there were cottage industries of people who made their living going over to the PTO and copying various documents for private attorneys and couriering them over.  So that was slow-rolled a bit, but less so because it wasn't government employees losing their jobs.  They wound up hiring one of the prime electronic contractors (that used to fax you patent documents in close to real time) to print and scan official patent documents.

So, this is an example of government being "absurdly inefficient."  But, you know what?  The USPTO is and almost always has been self-funded by user fees (Congress takes their revenue away and gives it back, less some).  So, this didn't really cost anyone any money (patent user fees have actually been going down). And the user experience has been comparatively fantastic.  And some people kept their jobs instead of just being laid off had a corporate bureaucracy made those decisions.

So, what I thought was complete government idiocy, at first, has a bit more nuance to it.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Posted
2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

btw @Brisketexan  Mike Flynn still has a pension and his freedom, and his brother still has a job because the people who make those decisions mostly respect the rules even if the Flynns don’t. That’s the Deep State, too. Food for thought.

Quite the conundrum, isn't it?  A lot of the things we want to happen to these people for egregiously violating norms would themselves violate norms.  Yes, there are ways to differentiate "norm violating," but in broad principle, it is the same thing.

It's a variant of the "how do you contend with insanity" problem.  The first instinct may be with your own form of insanity, and there's some appeal to that.  But is it really the long-term right thing to do?  

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I used to think government was a complete bumbling bureaucracy, by its very nature.  But, people have pointed out that corporations are mostly bumbling bureaucracies, too, also by their very nature.  That nature, of course, being human nature.  So, we're all right on the bumbling bureaucracy score.

Corporations have one advantage (or disadvantage), though.  And that is, the number of stakeholders in any corporate decision or policy is relatively a lot lower than government, and, I think government does a better job of trying to accommodate its larger number of stakeholders.  The main stakeholder in a corporation being profit motive, of course, which can make things damned simple if you want to view them that way and many or most corps do.

Let me give a vivid example.  The US Patent & Trademark Office has had online filing for a really long time.  Like 20 years, way before court systems implemented it, and contemporaneously or earlier than other patent offices, including the "gold standard" European Patent Office, and the World Intellectual Property Organization.

When they went online, you uploaded pdf documents, as expected. But what then happened was clerks at the PTO printed those pdfs, scanned them, and uploaded them into the file maintenence system.  LOL WTF?  But then I came to understand that the PTO received protests from all those clerks that would immediately become unemployed (hundreds of them, maybe even thousands) if the electronic filings were automatically uploaded to the file maintenance system.  Plus, the printing out had the salutary function of providing an avenue by which the filings were reviewed for completeness (all pages there, all drawings, all legible, etc.).   And for a while, they maintained parallel paper files in case of technical glitches that might lose or corrupt electronic filings.  And in those early days of this type of technology, that was probably a smart thing to do.  Surprisingly, very few or no instances of galactic technical failure resulting in the loss/corruption of patent filings have occurred.

Over time, the PTO has moved to a more automated system where the uploads go directly into the file maintenance system.  But it has done so relatively gradually, minimizing the impact on those clerk people.

There were some other issues relating to making all patent documents available online in that there were cottage industries of people who made their living going over to the PTO and copying various documents for private attorneys and couriering them over.  So that was slow-rolled a bit, but less so because it wasn't government employees losing their jobs.  They wound up hiring one of the prime electronic contractors (that used to fax you patent documents in close to real time) to print and scan official patent documents.

So, this is an example of government being "absurdly inefficient."  But, you know what?  The USPTO is and almost always has been self-funded by user fees (Congress takes their revenue away and gives it back, less some).  So, this didn't really cost anyone any money (patent user fees have actually been going down). And the user experience has been comparatively fantastic.  And some people kept their jobs instead of just being laid off had a corporate bureaucracy made those decisions.

So, what I thought was complete government idiocy, at first, has a bit more nuance to it.

A recent addendum to this.  The PTO wants to move its system toward text-based document filing, so everything is immediately text-searchable, which makes a certain amount of sense. To date, their systems have been agnostic as to whether the pdfs uploaded were image- or text-based.

But somehow they let Microsoft weasel in and sell them on a docx encoding engine and they have proposed and required that filers upload docx files instead of pdfs, or even text-based pdf-A.  So, whatever you file gets run though that engine and the output is the official filing at the USPTO.

Docx started as a standard, but has gone increasingly proprietary to M$ since it's introduction/adoption.  So, there are valid concerns that anyone uploading a docx made with LibreOffice, etc. or even older versions of Word, may wind up with something corrupted or slightly different once it is run through M$'s encoding engine.  This is monumentally important, because a patent filer is "stuck" with whatever the PTO got on the filing date.

So, it appears that the PTO has been sold a bill of goods by M$ as to whether docx and their proprietary encoding engine are actually standard and not a move to get all patent practitioners to buy the latest version of Word.  But it is responding to user criticism and postponing, perhaps indefinitely, the docx filing requirement.

Corporate vs. government at work.

Edited by TwiceHorn
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Brisketexan said:


You know, maybe the most damning part of your haughty condemnation is that it shits all over the regular folks you claim to champion.
Here’s a simple question: which public employees save the most lives every year?

It’s not cops. Or firefighters. Or soldiers.

It’s the people who keep our water and sewer plants running. Safe, clean drinking water saves hundreds of thousands of lives a year right here in the US. So does basic sanitation. We have that thanks to a shitload of working class folks who keep those systems running. And engineers and managers who run the operation. And elected officials who allocate taxes and public resources to massive operations and capital projects. Not because those are cool, and get them on TV, or get them rich. But because providing drinking water and sanitary sewers is part of the job, and is a good thing to do. Really, we only notice them when they fail…which is very, very rarely.
You’re so intent on straddling your high horse and cantering about like an imperious dandy that you completely miss the boring reality of hard-working decent folks doing their thing (those people are called “the government,” by the way). Which surprises absolutely nobody around here.

 

I wonder how many of the J6 insurrectionists were waste water managers?

Take our the veterans and real estate agents and ex-cops, and who's left?

 

 

Edited by High Plains Drifter
whose, who's, whateverthefuck
Posted
34 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

I wonder how many of the J6 insurrectionists were waste water managers?

Take our the veterans and real estate agents and ex-cops, and who's left?

 

 

Current state politicians, retirees, and that one ex-Olympic swimmer dude. I think that literally covers everyone.



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