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2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.


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Posted
5 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Yes it is. That's exactly what this is. This is "let's spend all our time talking about Biden being old(something we've all known for his entire presidency, he didn't wake up and suddenly turn 83), and never talk about the fact that Trump is a felon, liar, more senile, and oh yeah, a fascist".

 

Nobody is talking about any of those things because the rich elite control the media and are currently using it to divide and conquer. That is the main takeaway I get from reading this thread.

I'm sorry but a good portion of this thread watched the debate as it happened. We're not all under the sway of the rich elite media. Our own eyes saw what a lot of us feared about an 81 year old running for another 4 years in possibly the most crucial election in history. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Pam Cummings said:

Yes it is. That's exactly what this is. This is "let's spend all our time talking about Biden being old(something we've all known for his entire presidency, he didn't wake up and suddenly turn 83), and never talk about the fact that Trump is a felon, liar, arguably more senile, and oh yeah, a fascist".

Bullshit, it's about promoting a viable alternative to Trump so that Trump doesn't win.  But by all means, exercise your freedoms one last time to ignore this...

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As this ascends to power...

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I'm sorry but a good portion of this thread watched the debate as it happened. We're not all under the sway of the rich elite media. Our own eyes saw what a lot of us feared about an 81 year old running for another 4 years in possibly the most crucial election in history. 

If you were really that concerned about it you would be upset at our media. You watched a debate where the candidates argued about fucking golf handicaps and talked about nothing important and your takeaway is "we gotta get Biden out of there" while the media did nothing to critique, criticize, or hold Trump to any sort of respectable standard. He does nothing but lie. But instead of digging in on that, we focus on Biden. In what other aspect of this world do we do that?

Edited by Pam Cummings
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Posted
3 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Bullshit, it's about promoting a viable alternative to Trump so that Trump doesn't win.  But by all means, exercise your freedoms one last time to ignore this...

TELEMMGLPICT000383658240_17195551268580_

As this ascends to power...

8a78038c24a84b58846d4024c2e25136

 

If we had respectable media in this country these wouldn't be the candidates in the first place.

Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

If you were really that concerned about it you would be upset at our media. You watched a debate where the candidates argued about fucking golf handicaps and talked about nothing important and your takeaway is "we gotta get Biden out of there" while the media did nothing to critique, criticize, or hold Trump to any sort of respectable standard.

I've accepted the media for the utter shitbags they are. I don't watch CNN in any way, shape, or form. I don't go to CNN.com. I watched on a separate NY Times feed that was doing real time fact checking. I watched Biden not be able to repudiate the lies Trump was throwing out IN THE DEBATE FORMAT HE AND HIS TEAM AGREED TO. I watched Biden get caught in the dumb discussion of golf handicaps. The media didn't ask him to debate golf prowess with Trump. 

And no, my takeaway is Biden did not help those in middle America and the swing states (read the only people who matter now) who think he's too old to be President. He fed the media the juicy steak they so desire. 2020 Joe Biden wouldn't have done that. I want him to step down and throw all his support behind Kamala. We're probably losing either way but we are definitely losing with Biden now with a course of action of his own doing. The media was never going to ignore one of the worst debate performances when voters already had a legitimate concern that the candidates are too old. 

Biden now feels like this meme. No, it's the voters who are wrong.

CRAkkxZoC4EhLMF0xrdwjjZVUWqwyZkfo4EF0jls

Edited by mdmost
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Posted

For fellow doomers: who is the dream person that steps in?  who is the plausible and upgrade?

 

for me: mark kelly, of AZ.  harris is the obvious number 2, but don't know that she's an upgrade in electability.  same with newsome.  too california-y. maybe hakeem jeffries or cory booker?

Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I've accepted the media for the utter shitbags they are. I don't watch CNN in any way, shape, or form. I don't go to CNN.com. I watched on a separate NY Times feed that was doing real time fact checking. I watched Biden not be able to repudiate the lies Trump was throwing out IN THE DEBATE FORMAT HE AND HIS TEAM AGREED TO. I watched Biden get caught in the dumb discussion of golf handicaps. The media didn't ask him to debate golf prowess with Trump. 

And no, my takeaway is Biden did not help those in middle America and the swing states (read the only people who matter now) who think he's too old to be President. He fed the media the juicy steak they so desire. 2020 Joe Biden wouldn't have done that. I want him to step down and throw all his support behind Kamala. We're probably losing either way but we are definitely losing with Biden now with a course of action of his own doing. The media was never going to ignore one of the worst debate performances when voters already had a legitimate concern that the candidates are too old. 

Biden now feels like this meme. No, it's the voters who are wrong.

CRAkkxZoC4EhLMF0xrdwjjZVUWqwyZkfo4EF0jls

Dude. When are you going to learn that it doesn't matter who the candidate is? The Republicans will just smear them. They will create 1000 lies, none of which will be properly debunked, and a good portion of america will blindly regugitate them. If you think there is some magical unicorn candidate out there that will unite everybody in 4 months, and is immune to republican smear campaigns, I have a bridge to sell you.

 

Biden to me is the only one who has been able to succeed despite the lies. He is who he is. This last ditch effort to smear him and throw him out is very clearly a coordinated effort by the right and their media. 

 

And again, I'm not voting "for Biden". I am voting "for policies that aren't facism".

Edited by Pam Cummings
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Posted (edited)

Yeah it may indeed be too late to switch horses but whose fault is that? Biden was hiding for the large part of four years and the first time he comes back into the limelight he delivers an F minus debate performance. Enough Biden voters from 2020 probably just say fuck it and stay home. Not that they were necessarily swayed by Dotard.

Edited by Loch Ness Monster
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Posted
6 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Yeah it may indeed be too late to switch horses but whose fault is that? Biden was hiding for the large part of four years and the first time he comes back into the limelight he delivers an F minus debate performance. Enough Biden voters from 2020 probably just say fuck it and stay home. Not that they were necessarily swayed by Dotard.

You'd have been saying the same thing no matter which candidate was running. "Why change horses, everyone knew that ______ was weak because of [insert right wing talking point/lie]"

Learn from France y'all. 

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Posted
31 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Yes it is. That's exactly what this is. This is "let's spend all our time talking about Biden being old(something we've all known for his entire presidency, he didn't wake up and suddenly turn 83), and never talk about the fact that Trump is a felon, liar, more senile, and oh yeah, a fascist".

 

Nobody is talking about any of those things because the rich elite control the media and are currently using it to divide and conquer. That is the main takeaway I get from reading this thread.

The media absolutely deserves culpability for not hammering home Trump's obvious and much more dangerous flaws and agenda. But the people mainlining cable news aren't the ones that I'm concerned about. Most of their minds are already made up.

Is it really THAT hard to believe that there are millions of 2020 Biden voters that weren't super adversely affected by the last Trump Presidency and/or forgot how truly terrible and incompetent his administration was--that will never bother to learn the details of Project 2025 or read Supreme Court rulings--that will just stay home in November because they have no motivation whatsoever to vote for a dude who won't be able to serve his full term and wasn't exactly lighting up the popularity charts before the debate?

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Posted
2 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

It's my fault.  I missed the deadline to write a strongly worded letter.

I fucked up on keeping Mack Brown on for too long as well.

Bruh, you had one job.

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Biden to me is the only one who has been able to succeed despite the lies. He is who he is. This last ditch effort to smear him and throw him out is very clearly a coordinated effort by the right and their media.

He squeaked by in one election during extremely favorable conditions for a challenger.  He's had an incredibly successful presidency, yet has had historically low approval ratings almost the entire time.  He's the first Democrat to be trailing in July national polls since 2000.  The idea that he's some "real American" whisperer is based much more in hope than reality.

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Posted
34 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

If we had respectable media in this country these wouldn't be the candidates in the first place.

Yeah, and if dems had developed a stable of young moderates, etc... etc... etc...   All that I give a shit about is what can be done between now and November to keep Trump out of the White House.  The media isn't going to be reformed in that time.  The average voter is not going to be made more intelligent and have more time in their life to educate themselves about issues in the absence of a respectable media.  Foreign states will be working to promote the bad guys.  None of that is going to change without the next President making it a priority, so....

What the fuck can be done?

The one thing that can be done is that the dems can nominate a young, energetic moderate that will be able to point out Trump's faults in real time when given the opportunity and then they need to hit the campaign trail HARD.  In a way that Joe Biden is now incapable of.  Do that, and the dems win in a landslide.

Or, insist on playing a prevent defense to protect a lead that does not exist.  But don't expect people that are at least somewhat intelligent and educated to not call that out as strategic dumbfuckery.

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Posted
Just now, Dahobbs said:

To stop fighting with each other and unite against the right. 

France has like 12 or 13 parties.  We have 2 and a wild card.

Our political systems are apples and oranges.

Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Yeah, and if dems had developed a stable of young moderates, etc... etc... etc...   All that I give a shit about is what can be done between now and November to keep Trump out of the White House.  The media isn't going to be reformed in that time.  The average voter is not going to be made more intelligent and have more time in their life to educate themselves about issues in the absence of a respectable media.  Foreign states will be working to promote the bad guys.  None of that is going to change without the next President making it a priority, so....

What the fuck can be done?

The one thing that can be done is that the dems can nominate a young, energetic moderate that will be able to point out Trump's faults in real time when given the opportunity and then they need to hit the campaign trail HARD.  In a way that Joe Biden is now incapable of.  Do that, and the dems win in a landslide.

Or, insist on playing a prevent defense to protect a lead that does not exist.  But don't expect people that are at least somewhat intelligent and educated to not call that out as strategic dumbfuckery.

Yeah man. The strategy of "going high when they go low" and "hey let's continue to hold our guys to some weird higher standard than what the Republicans are doing" is going awesome for the dems.

Edited by Pam Cummings
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Posted

“President Joe Biden defended his place at the top of the Democratic ticket Monday in a surprise television interview on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” after more lawmakers and donors came forward over the weekend with concerns about his reelection bid.

“I’m not going anywhere,” Biden said in the phone interview. “I absolutely believe that I am the best candidate to beat Donald Trump in 2024.”

“I’m getting so frustrated by the elites in the party” calling on him to step down, the president fumed. “I don’t care what the millionaires think.”

Biden insisted to hosts Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski that the concerns of his wealthy backers would not dictate his political future.

“I want their support, but that’s not the reason I’m running,” Biden said. “I’m not running about what they think and what they care about. And by the way, you don’t see a whole hell of a lot of them flocking to Trump. You don’t see a whole lot of CEOs flocking to Trump.”

“I’m not going to explain any more about what I should or shouldn’t do,” the president added defiantly. “I am running. I am running,”

——————-

I saw the segment. Very feisty. Not quite yelling but angry tone. Had this been done the morning after the debate maybe it’s a different ballgame. I don’t know. I do know is that it appeared as though for six days (bc of the holiday) after the debate that they had no answer. Waiting on the Friday George interview which mostly didn't help him. 
 

I don’t see more people flocking to Trump. The main concern is voters dropping from Biden. Not voting. Looking elsewhere. 
 

I am not a fixer. Obviously not a political strategist but I thought after the debate the best hope was for him to take some time after the debate and announce he was stepping aside and Kamala would have the full weight of the White House behind her. And campaign in earnest for her. As her campaign floats the names of the VP candidates. Making that sort of an open process.  That I felt was the best hope. 
 

the problem with Biden imo is the mental image we were left with of him in the debate. So he’s like a zoo animal now on display. Every misstep will be magnified. Every gaff and every sentence scrutinized.
 

Is it about his inner circle + his pride? Or is it a sincere belief that no one else can beat Trump? 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

France has like 12 or 13 parties.  We have 2 and a wild card.

Our political systems are apples and oranges.

 

3 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Give us someone to unite behind.

Sigh. Again, you'll find the flaw in anyone. Or someone else will. It doesn't matter when people just want to bitch. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

 

Sigh. Again, you'll find the flaw in anyone. Or someone else will. It doesn't matter when people just want to bitch. 

I understand your frustration, we're all frustrated... but you can't be this clueless.  

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Posted
1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

 

 

The blame for all of this lies with the media. They are more concerned with money than being informative. They don't push back on bullshit. They allow a landscape to exist where people call Biden old and senile but Trump is perfectly fine. This is really their fault. I think that a lot needs to change in our media landscape for shit to go back to normal.

Fuck that.  It isn't the media's fault he completely embarrassed himself in the debate pretty much proving the narrative (that already existed) that he is too old to run again 100% correct.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Pam Cummings said:

Yeah man. The strategy of "going high when they go low" and "hey let's continue to hold our guys to some weird higher standard than what the Republicans are doing" is going awesome for the dems.

I 100% agree with you that Dems need to get vicious and start responding appropriately to the political street fight they find themselves in.  Where we disagree is that I don't think Joe is capable of fighting a street fight any more.  I wish he was, but... I just cannot maintain a suspension of disbelief that he is the capable candidate that we need at this moment in time.  I saw what I saw on CNN when he squared off against Trump, and what I saw was old, sad and feeble.

if there is no change, I hope he proves me wrong.  I guarantee I will be the first guy here to happily eat his crow.

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Posted

Let's say instead of showing clear mental decline, he threw up on himself.  And everyone saw he threw up on himself.   

Do you know how fucking stupid you would sound if you said:  "It's the media's fault they showed him with puke all over his shirt and tie?"

Showoff See GIF by HULU

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Posted
5 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

I understand your frustration, we're all frustrated... but you can't be this clueless.  

Neither can you. You already see everyone flocking to different candidates. If you can't get people to unite behind the sitting President, they will not unite behind anyone. Throwing everything in turmoil a few months before the election is a losing strategy. 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Neither can you. You already see everyone flocking to different candidates. If you can't get people to unite behind the sitting President, they will not unite behind anyone. Throwing everything in turmoil a few months before the election is a losing strategy. 

Misled alliances fracture.  The dems should try not misleading theirs.

Posted
8 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Let's say instead of showing clear mental decline, he threw up on himself.  And everyone saw he threw up on himself.   

Do you know how fucking stupid you would sound if you said:  "It's the media's fault they showed him with puke all over his shirt and tie?"

Showoff See GIF by HULU

It's just this rich elite media and that lying son of a bitch, Trump. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Goredho said:

Misled alliances fracture.  The dems should try not misleading theirs.

Awesome. Vote for Trump then. Cause those are your choices. 

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Let's say instead of showing clear mental decline, he threw up on himself.  And everyone saw he threw up on himself.   

Do you know how fucking stupid you would sound if you said:  "It's the media's fault they showed him with puke all over his shirt and tie?"

Showoff See GIF by HULU

i absolutely would say that.  as a cowboys fan, i frequently yell at the biased media for reporting their 4-11 record in the playoffs this century.

Posted
7 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Neither can you. You already see everyone flocking to different candidates. If you can't get people to unite behind the sitting President, they will not unite behind anyone. Throwing everything in turmoil a few months before the election is a losing strategy. 

The Dems probably don't have a winning strategy at this point.   But it certainly isn't running Biden.  The fact that Biden is digging in and thinks he is still the best option to beat Trump is further proof he's going senile.  Everyone clinging to that hope is flat out living in denial.   You all can cuss the media all you want but I watched the debate and it was clear 15 minutes in that Biden was fucking toast this election.  Kamala would almost certainly be a huge underdog coming in late but she will actually have a chance to make up the difference unlike Biden.  His narrative is set no matter how many 'fiery' interviews he does.

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Posted
1 minute ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

Some of them do.

Here's mine.

Force Joe Biden to drop out.

Go balls to the wall with piss and vigor until election day. 

That is clearly the best bet to everyone outside of apparently Biden and his inner circle + a handful on this board with their head in the sand.

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Posted (edited)

Axelrod pointed out Biden was up 10 at this point in 2020 and is now down 6 this year.  The up 10 was a mirage given how tight the race finished.  If up 6 is also misrepresenting Trump's performance then the likelihood of a real red wave is more probable than a Biden squeaker.  And Biden defiantly telling people to get in line and support him is going to turnoff independents.  He is going to get fucking smoked.

Edited by babysdaddy
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Posted
11 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Awesome. Vote for Trump then. Cause those are your choices. 

Ok?  So Dems are going to save America by telling middle-of-the-road voters to eat their rancid porridge and like it?

bold.jpg

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Posted
28 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

Is it about his inner circle + his pride? Or is it a sincere belief that no one else can beat Trump? 

Do you become President of the US without having a massive ego? 

Bidens legacy may end up being he helped lead to the dismantling of American democracy.

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Posted
2 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

I refuse to be a part of any political discourse that holds one candidate to a different standard than the other. I refuse to sit by and watch people talk about Biden being unfit while the alternative candidate is a raving lunatic. I refuse to watch or consume any of this concern trolling that is happening in the media, who is only concerned with dividing so that they can make more money for their shareholders.

 

Biden is the same person he was before the debate. If you lot wanted another candidate you had your chance to make it happen.

Thank you! Good fucking christ, it's weird how multiple posters have "independent" friends who are not voting after the debate, because of Biden's performance. Where are the conservative leaning friends who are not voting because Donald is a convicted felon rapist who is going to implement Project 2025, outlaw abortion, and confuses Hillary with Nancy while babbling about what's worse, shark attacks or being electrocuted by a boat battery. Nobody has any friends who are consistent Republican voters that are saying no to that? Weird. 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Ok?  So Dems are going to save America by telling middle-of-the-road voters to eat their rancid porridge and like it?

bold.jpg

No. I'm just saying you're not going to find another candidate to get people united behind. If they can't united behind the sitting President against the end of democracy, they can't unite behind anyone. Having a speed primary is just going to result in more infighting between factions. I know y'all want a different choice. I'd be cool with one too. But this is fundamentally a voter problem. Everyone wants something different and isn't willing to accept anything else. 

Edited by Dahobbs
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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

Thank you! Good fucking christ, it's weird how multiple posters have "independent" friends who are not voting after the debate, because of Biden's performance. Where are the conservative leaning friends who are not voting because Donald is a convicted felon rapist who is going to implement Project 2025, outlaw abortion, and confuses Hillary with Nancy while babbling about what's worse, shark attacks or being electrocuted by a boat battery. Nobody has any friends who are consistent Republican voters that are saying no to that? Weird. 

But a lot of us have family members who will absolutely vote for Trump even through all of those things. Trump is the useful idiot who gives the right everything their hateful hearts desire. They don't give a shit if he's a terrible person. They revel in it. He gives them authority to be just as awful as he is. Sure, there may be some on the right who sit this one out but the cult has made peace with who Trump is because he is the means to an end. They would vote against Jesus Christ himself if it were Trump vs. Jesus. That's the brain rot we're dealing with that now may create even more generational changes in our country.

As far as independents, you guys need to understand the concept that some just want to burn it all down and start over. They don't want to vote for either guy and if it means it all burns down, so be it. Lack of choices they can stomach breeds apathy. Apathy means they won't vote for Trump. They just won't vote.  That is who Biden and the Democrats need to reach but since the left's collective messaging sucks, here we are. 

Edited by mdmost
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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

Thank you! Good fucking christ, it's weird how multiple posters have "independent" friends who are not voting after the debate, because of Biden's performance. Where are the conservative leaning friends who are not voting because Donald is a convicted felon rapist who is going to implement Project 2025, outlaw abortion, and confuses Hillary with Nancy while babbling about what's worse, shark attacks or being electrocuted by a boat battery. Nobody has any friends who are consistent Republican voters that are saying no to that? Weird. 

Yep. These same people who have "eyes and ears and can see how inept Biden is" apparently didnt have eyes and ears for this entire presidency, where that exact thing has been a major republican talking point every time Biden screws up some shit he's talking about. But it's only a huge issue now 4 months out and we should throw him out and start over? Give me a break.

 

Trump knows he can't beat Biden. The Republicans know they can't beat Biden. So they instead try to troll the democrats into doing it for them. Fuck all of that.

Edited by Pam Cummings
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Posted
4 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

Thank you! Good fucking christ, it's weird how multiple posters have "independent" friends who are not voting after the debate, because of Biden's performance. Where are the conservative leaning friends who are not voting because Donald is a convicted felon rapist who is going to implement Project 2025, outlaw abortion, and confuses Hillary with Nancy while babbling about what's worse, shark attacks or being electrocuted by a boat battery. Nobody has any friends who are consistent Republican voters that are saying no to that? Weird. 

I do.  They are all moderate Democrats now.  My Aunt and Uncle voted GOP their entire lives until 2018 and they are both Democrat voters notw.  Why the fuck do you think Dems are doing well in the Suburbs?  It's not because we've got great lawn care tips and bake a mean enchilada casserole.   We've picked up every Republican we are going to convert over the last 6 years.  Running a senile old fart isn't going to drive those converted voters to the polls.  Much less the sliver of indecisive "independent" dipshits that actually swing elections in WI, MI, and PA. 

The Biden Campaign's pitch of "Our meat is less rancid than the GOP's meat" isn't going to help with Moron's Who Vote(TM) who probably have golden tinged memories of Trump and think Uncle Joe is a drooling old fool. 

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

Axelrod pointed out Biden was up 10 at this point in 2020 and is now down 6 this year.  The up 10 was a mirage given how tight the race finished.  If up 6 is also misrepresenting Trump's performance then the likelihood of a real red wave is more probable than a Biden squeaker.  And Biden defiantly telling people to get in line and support him is going to turnoff independents.  He is going to get fucking smoked.

This is, of course, fucking stupid. If any of this was true you and all of your little republican friends would line up behind and love Biden, because you would be gleeful to know you can beat him. But you can't beat him so your only move is to troll and lie.

 

If Biden truly was inept you'd want him on the ballot. You wouldn't be trying to gaslight everyone into replacing him before he can beat trump.

Edited by Pam Cummings
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Posted
7 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

The Biden Campaign's pitch of "Our meat is less rancid than the GOP's meat" isn't going to help with Moron's Who Vote(TM) who probably have golden tinged memories of Trump and think Uncle Joe is a drooling old fool. 

Thing is, the Biden campaigns pitch ISN'T "our shit stinks less" - they have actual policy outcomes and goals and shit that they are campaigning on. Trumpco just isn't engaging with that and is steering the dialogue as he always does via his firehose of falsehoods. And then when the octagenarian inevitably does a senior moment, that's ALL that the dialogue is about. 

It's hard to convince idiots to not vote for the guy who looks like and truly represents them. And for many of this country, that person is a criminally fraudulent child rapist

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