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Posted
6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

"re-harvest"?  Does he think trees grow in a few months?

Do you think he spends ANY time thinking about trees ever? I mean his only outings with nature are on his golf courses where the trees are mostly at a distance lining the fairway and he's speeding by on his lil cart; his oldest son goes on canned hunts to kill species that probably ought to be on an endangered list; if Ivanka ever set foot in anything resembling a tent it would only be one of the pavilion types they use for weddings and runway shows; Eric is just smart enough to know that trees provide shade but not smart enough to understand the Warren Buffett line about "someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago."

Nature would give them their just desserts if they ever actually experienced it in the wild.

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Posted
3 hours ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Your position is Trump's almost entire adult life is evidence that he's not that good at sales/marketing?

No, he’s very good. Because he understands his target audience and gives them what they want. Republicans in general do. That’s their strength. But their weakness is deception. 

My position on this thread is and has been that Democrats are bad at sales and marketing, but literally all of the few times they executed the basics well, they won. If they weren’t so averse to it they would win. 

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Posted
2 hours ago, Gap03 said:

shiit-sheesh.gif

We're talking about a citizenry that lie their asses off about (or have no real clue) what they really care about.  Kinda difficult to market to the average U.S. citizen unless your party is willing to lie its ass off with the goal of scaring or infuriating them.  

What do you mean “kinda?” It’s extremely difficult. But Republicans know how to do it because they value marketing as a professional discipline. as in Texas, the Democratic Party is dominated by lawyers and activists and does not value marketing as a strategic professional discipline. The closest they have are refugees from journalism-turned-flacks who do “strategic communications” and chant magic words only activist groups can hear.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

 

 

“That good” meaning good enough to beat somebody good who doesn’t rely on deception. Democrats lose because they aren’t good. They don’t understand their target audience or what drives attention and behaviors. Or care to, apparently. They act like campaigns are court cases, like people choose how to vote based on the preponderance of the evidence. 

Also/ Democrats need to get it out of their head that Trump wins because he lies. That’s not true. It’s his biggest weakness. Trump wins because he understands his target audience and how to make his opponents compete in his choice of ground. That’s why this isn’t a messaging problem. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Posted
4 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

“That good” meaning good enough to beat somebody good who doesn’t rely on deception. Democrats lose because they aren’t good. They don’t understand their target audience or what drives attention and behaviors. Or care to, apparently. They act like campaigns are court cases, like people choose how to vote based on the preponderance of the evidence. 

Also/ Democrats need to get it out of their head that Trump wins because he lies. That’s not true. It’s his biggest weakness. Trump wins because he understands his target audience and how to make his opponents compete in his choice of ground. That’s why this isn’t a messaging problem. 

I think you are missing something here, namely that while Democrats are indeed bad at marketing, they are also stuck trying to market policies they believe will work and to operate in a fact-based vision of the world. The GOP leads with marketing and creates policy post hoc and with zero effort dedicated to making the policy a success even as defined by the GOP’s own marketing. 

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Posted
9 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I think you are missing something here, namely that while Democrats are indeed bad at marketing, they are also stuck trying to market policies they believe will work and to operate in a fact-based vision of the world.

Bozo, who I believe is operating in good faith, is advocating Dems become GOP Lite on the scale of deception, which they will never surpass, and even if they did, will accomplish jack shit.

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Posted
1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Rest easy Americans, our enemies will never deny our proud nation access to crypto and EFTs. 
 

image.thumb.png.fc484fbc1294ac5a9823da0d312863f3.png

Eliminating the dollar as reserve currency is clearly one of his and vlads goals.

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Posted

Although, I do sometimes wish that Dems and Libs would play in the same sandbox on low stakes level.  For instance, the recent principled decision to pull Hamilton from the Kennedy Center.  The producer’s statement was thoughtful and well written (reproduced below). And completely ineffective.  
 

Instead: Wait till the paying audience is seated on opening night, then stroll out and tell everyone that Trump made you cancel the show because he thinks it is woke. Then go on TV and just call Rick Grennell fake news after he tries to deny it.  Promise that you’ll look very strongly into bringing back Hamilton but not so long as Trump treats you unfairly, and then arrange for all of Bug Tussle, Pennsylvania to go see the show in a high school gym and give them free merch. 

 

image.thumb.png.47933a357707a3507b21725413d96dad.png

image.thumb.png.d1d8341af568f47eeb200e04b896e580.png

image.thumb.png.a652fd33fe98fa9eaf064893d82d74c3.png

 

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Posted
44 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

hey are also stuck trying to market policies they believe will work and to operate in a fact-based vision of the world.

 No, they aren’t stuck. They delude themselves into believing that campaigns are won and lost on policies instead of delivering targeted calls to action that resonate with a sufficient cross section of the electorate to capture majorities.  Policy is what you get to do if you win. 

chatGPT, show me a picture of how Democrats lose:

image.png.771aa65f900fb18c6e89801e8d25462e.png

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Posted
34 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Bozo, who I believe is operating in good faith, is advocating Dems become GOP Lite on the scale of deception, which they will never surpass, and even if they did, will accomplish jack shit.

 Nope. I’m advocating that they get good at marketing, which I’ve been saying consistently on these boards for 20+ years. To equate being good at marketing with deception is a category error and symptomatic of how lost Democrats are right now.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

 No, they aren’t stuck. They delude themselves into believing that campaigns are won and lost on policies instead of delivering targeted calls to action that resonate with a sufficient cross section of the electorate to capture majorities.  

I think what you mean is that the Dems should market to the single-issue morons and the monsters of our society - unfortunately, the Rs have a monopoly on them, and they have to be fed with the type of malicious bullshit that we're seeing now, so uhhh ...

no-fuck-that.gif

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Posted
34 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

That and also missing the massive closed-loop propaganda ecosystem that exists solely to affirm and reinforce GOP marketing and for which the Democrats have no equivalent. 

The more closed a loop is, the more quickly it collapses and fragile it becomes. Democrats need to focus their energies on infecting and coopting the GOP propaganda apparatus, an equivalent apparatus would just make things worse and efforts to that purpose are wasted.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Gap03 said:

I think what you mean is that the Dems should market to the single-issue morons and the monsters of our society - unfortunately

No, but holding a majority coalition in such contempt and disdain is also symptomatic of why Democrats lose.

Posted
1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

 Nope. I’m advocating that they get good at marketing, which I’ve been saying consistently on these boards for 20+ years. To equate being good at marketing with deception is a category error and symptomatic of how lost Democrats are right now.

Can you list a number of people in your life that you have persuaded to cast a vote that you preferred? Extra points if they needed an organ transplant.

Posted
5 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

And if they win lying that they support policies they know they don't, then what's the point?

Lie about policies? What on earth? They should almost never even talk about policies. I don’t see how I can be more clear here. 

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

 Nope. I’m advocating that they get good at marketing, which I’ve been saying consistently on these boards for 20+ years. To equate being good at marketing with deception is a category error and symptomatic of how lost Democrats are right now.

I think the point they're trying to make that you're overlooking is that you can't "out market" lies. Especially when they WANT to believe those lies.

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Posted

Sorry to interrupt the ongoing debate (shouldn't y'all be talking about that stuff in the Democratic Party thread?), AG Bondi is going after the American Bar Association over DEI shit and threatening to revoke its status as the government-sanctioned accreditor of U.S. law schools.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-attorney-general-presses-aba-drop-law-school-dei-rule-or-risk-losing-2025-03-05/

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Can you list a number of people in your life that you have persuaded to cast a vote that you preferred? Extra points if they needed an organ transplant.

Hmm. Well most of them are one-offs, but in terms of degree of difficulty I was pretty proud of convincing 97% of the mostly baby boomer and older attendees of a neighborhood association meeting to support a resolution to ask the Austin  city council to upzone their own neighborhood, despite opponents of the resolution stacking the room with ringers and lying about what the resolution said. Not many examples of that…

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Posted
8 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Sorry to interrupt the ongoing debate (shouldn't y'all be talking about that stuff in the Democratic Party thread?), AG Bondi is going after the American Bar Association over DEI shit and threatening to revoke its status as the government-sanctioned accreditor of U.S. law schools.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-attorney-general-presses-aba-drop-law-school-dei-rule-or-risk-losing-2025-03-05/

@TwiceHorn has assured me that the first duty of a lawyer is to their client and that the legal profession is definitely NOT in an ethical crisis, so everything’s jake!

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I think the point they're trying to make that you're overlooking is that you can't "out market" lies. Especially when they WANT to believe those lies.

Of course you can, that’s ridiculous. Trump’s voters generally know he lies all the time and probably half of them dislike it. They vote for him in spite of it, not because of it. 

Posted

Lmao just look at how Republicans acted during Obama and Biden SOTU's and what happened earlier this week with Rep Green. A fucking joke.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, safe sex said:

When Democrats try to run on soundbites and emotion, they get pushed about their policy goals. Kamala tried campaigning on vibes for a while, and then the entire media ecosystem was all "What's Kamala's plan for x, y, and z, over and over and over again while completely ignoring Trump's utter lack of a plan. And the Republicans, of course, were even lying about having concepts of a plan.

HOW THE FUCK DO YOU COMPETE WHEN YOU ARE HELD TO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT STANDARDS?

This is another symptom- Democrats aren’t held by it. They just choose to play by the rules of a media ecosystem as they were in 2008. We no longer live in that world. Democrats are free to do other things and make their own weather. They just don’t, for some reason.

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

No, but holding a majority coalition in such contempt and disdain is also symptomatic of why Democrats lose.

Well, it's a good thing I'm not in Democratic leadership, but look the fuck around - the majority deserves all the contempt and disdain I can muster right now.  I think some pragmatism is warranted, and the reality is that your "just market better" and "infect the GOP propaganda apparatus" (btw - are you a fucking mgmt consultant?) isn't the Rosetta Stone that you think it is.

Posted
Just now, Gap03 said:

Well, it's a good thing I'm not in Democratic leadership, but look the fuck around - the majority deserves all the contempt and disdain I can muster right now.  I think some pragmatism is warranted, and the reality is that your "just market better" and "infect the GOP propaganda apparatus" (btw - are you a fucking mgmt consultant?) isn't the Rosetta Stone that you think it is.

Ok cool

Posted
4 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Of course you can, that’s ridiculous. Trump’s voters generally know he lies all the time and probably half of them dislike it. They vote for him in spite of it, not because of it. 

They don't dislike that he lies, they think he's telling the truth and just being foiled by the evil libs. It's a classic fascist technique: paint your enemy as equally inept and all powerful. When you need to be victimized to boost your base, the enemy is powerful. When you need to thump your chest and make a scene, the enemy is weak and helpless and begging to be crushed. 

It's called cognitive dissonance. It's a hell of a drug

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Hmm. Well most of them are one-offs, but in terms of degree of difficulty I was pretty proud of convincing 97% of the mostly baby boomer and older attendees of a neighborhood association meeting to support a resolution to ask the Austin  city council to upzone their own neighborhood, despite opponents of the resolution stacking the room with ringers and lying about what the resolution said. Not many examples of that…

That sounds pretty policy heavy to me, contrary to...

21 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Lie about policies? What on earth? They should almost never even talk about policies.

Congrats, tho it doesn't support your point. 

Posted
5 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

That sounds pretty policy heavy to me, contrary to...

Congrats, tho it doesn't support your point. 

 Nope. The resolution passed because what the voters cared about was their problems and developing a clear and immediate sense of who was on their side. Getting them to support the resolution was just a question of aligning to those things. The policy, if you can call it that, was just the outcome. 

Posted

hearing jd fat eyelinered face vance's petulant gaslighting about zelensky not grovelling low enough in front of trump had me raging and cursing today.

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Posted
9 minutes ago, elfenix said:

hearing jd fat eyelinered face vance's petulant gaslighting about zelensky not grovelling low enough in front of trump had me raging and cursing today.

He’s so bad. 

Posted
11 minutes ago, elfenix said:

hearing jd fat eyelinered face vance's petulant gaslighting about zelensky not grovelling low enough in front of trump had me raging and cursing today.

 

he must have a ton of sephora points 

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Posted
9 minutes ago, F250 said:

What if Dems actually fanned the flames of class warfare?

 

keep sniping

trump will eventually turn on musk, he turns on everyone 

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