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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

Sorry, dude.  You're wrong.

From SCOTUSblog: The court made clear that – as the government agrees – the plaintiffs, as well as others who may be detained or removed under the AEA, are entitled to be notified “that they are subject to removal under the Act.” Moreover, the court added, addressing an argument made by lawyers for the plaintiffs during oral arguments in the lower courts, the government must provide that notice “within a reasonable time and in such a manner as will allow them to actually seek habeas relief in the proper venue before such removal occurs.”

You have zero fucking clue what you're talking about. Yes, the opinion says the right exists. But it says the only way to enforce it is to file a habeas petition prior to being snatched and deported. The ability to do that depends on, you know, getting notice and the time to do that, the very fucking thing the administration was NOT FUCKING DOING you dense motherfucker.  Take the guy who was illegally deported to a prison in El Salvador as an example. He got no notice of his deportation, so no ability to bring a habeas action prior to being deported. Oh, and the government's defense isn't that he should have been deported, it is that now that he is deported, the government can't do anything about it and can't be forced to do anything about it. So, Roberts has now said that you can't do anything in advance of being deported to defend your right. And he has vacated an order from the District Court that provided the only mechanism to prevent the administration from violating the law. Oh, and Roberts has now also stayed an order of the District Court, fully endorsed in an unanimous opinion by an appellate panel, that would have required Trump to at least fucking try to get the guy back from El Salvador who was illegally deported there. 

So, you tell me motherfucker, how exactly am I wrong? What is the legal mechanism is practically available to a person illegally deported without notice? Oh, none. Thanks. Go fuck yourself. 

Edited by Dahobbs
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Posted

Let me be very clear, you, @Ojo Rojo, deserve to be deported without notice and sent to prison for being either densest motherfucker on the planet or just an actual shit stain. I sincerely hope it happens to you, fucking leopards and shit. 

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Posted
18 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

@Firemans4Horn@Brisketexan What?  The opinion gives due process rights to the detained and says that they have to have their habeas petitions heard where they are detained.  It also didn't reach the big question, which is whether the AEA applied.  This hasn't played all the way out yet.


 

 

 

We’re not playing fucking 2nd year moot court debate here.
 

Can you disappear the wrong person to another country with no obligation to bring them back? Roberts answer was as long as that person has some magical phone call that they will never get because they are poor and speak another language and are moved 1,500 miles to a black box site 4 hours after they are captured. 

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

You have zero fucking clue what you're talking about. Yes, the opinion says the right exists. But it says the only way to enforce it is to file a habeas petition prior to being snatched and deported. The ability to do that depends on, you know, getting notice and the time to do that, the very fucking thing the administration was NOT FUCKING DOING you dense motherfucker.  Take the guy who was illegally deported to a prison in El Salvador as an example. He got no notice of his deportation, so no ability to bring a habeas action prior to being deported. Oh, and the government's defense isn't that he should have been deported, it is that now that he is deported, the government can't do anything about it and can't be forced to do anything about it. So, Roberts has now said that you can't do anything in advance of being deported to defend your right. And he has vacated an order from the District Court that provided the only mechanism to prevent the administration from violating the law. Oh, and Roberts has now also stayed an order of the District Court, fully endorsed in an unanimous opinion by an appellate panel, that would have required Trump to at least fucking try to get the guy back from El Salvador who was illegally deported there. 

So, you tell me motherfucker, how exactly am I wrong? What is the legal mechanism that is practically available to a person illegally deported without notice? Oh, none. Thanks. Go fuck yourself. 

Quit saying illegally. The Supreme Court is saying this shit is all good. We need to come to terms with the fact that this shit is legal now.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Dicta which is meaningless.  Once the government does an end-around that and does not provide notice before removal occurs (which is exactly what they have been doing, and will continue to do), you will be in a prison in El Salvador.  And now, it's too late -- no remedy is available, because you are out of US government hands.  That is the fucking play.  How do we know?  Because they are actually running it, right now, in real-time.  The court alluded to a solution that the Regime will not allow to be implemented.

You still.  Don't.  Fucking.  Get it.

You and Wildcat and Fudge Nuggets and Dahobbs can writhe around in ashes while wearing your sackcloth and wail about things that haven't actually happened yet, that's fine. I'll pass. I'm not blind. I see what's happening. Bad things have happened, but the courts have not had their final say on any of them.  This most recent opinion is not a bellwether or the final word. It's a step in the process.  Get ahold of yourselves.

Edited by Ojo Rojo
Dahobbs has lost his fucking mind.
Posted
10 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

You have zero fucking clue what you're talking about. Yes, the opinion says the right exists. But it says the only way to enforce it is to file a habeas petition prior to being snatched and deported. The ability to do that depends on, you know, getting notice and the time to do that, the very fucking thing the administration was NOT FUCKING DOING you dense motherfucker.  Take the guy who was illegally deported to a prison in El Salvador as an example. He got no notice of his deportation, so no ability to bring a habeas action prior to being deported. Oh, and the government's defense isn't that he should have been deported, it is that now that he is deported, the government can't do anything about it and can't be forced to do anything about it. So, Roberts has now said that you can't do anything in advance of being deported to defend your right. And he has vacated an order from the District Court that provided the only mechanism to prevent the administration from violating the law. Oh, and Roberts has now also stayed an order of the District Court, fully endorsed in an unanimous opinion by an appellate panel, that would have required Trump to at least fucking try to get the guy back from El Salvador who was illegally deported there. 

So, you tell me motherfucker, how exactly am I wrong? What is the legal mechanism is practically available to a person illegally deported without notice? Oh, none. Thanks. Go fuck yourself. 

 

5 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Let me be very clear, you, @Ojo Rojo, deserve to be deported without notice and sent to prison for being either densest motherfucker on the planet or just an actual shit stain. I sincerely hope it happens to you, fucking leopards and shit. 

You have lost your fucking mind.

Posted
1 minute ago, Ojo Rojo said:

and wail about things that haven't actually happened yet

lzitqza6fza41.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&a

Haven't actually happened yet?  Dude.  There's a guy.  In a Salvadoran prison.  Right now.  The play has ALREADY BEEN RUN.  All that has to happen now is....run it more.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Ojo Rojo said:

 

You have lost your fucking mind.

And you're a fucking idiot. You've been illegally deported without notice. What is your remedy?  How do you enforce it? 

Answer from Roberts: None. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

lzitqza6fza41.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&a

Haven't actually happened yet?  Dude.  There's a guy.  In a Salvadoran prison.  Right now.  The play has ALREADY BEEN RUN.  All that has to happen now is....run it more.

 

Just now, DigglerontheHoof said:

It's already happened you obtuse piece of shit. 

I know. What hasn't happened yet is that the case has not reached the end. Gentleman's bet - the courts will order him returned and he will be.

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

And you're a fucking idiot. You've been illegally deported without notice. What is your remedy?  How do you enforce it? 

Answer from Roberts: None. 

You also can't read or understand legal opinions.

Posted
1 minute ago, Ojo Rojo said:

 

I know. What hasn't happened yet is that the case has not reached the end. Gentleman's bet - the courts will order him returned and he will be.

The Court will not do that. And if it did, Trump will not do that. And the dude is probably already dead. 

Here is what Roberts will say: He should not have been deported and that was wrong, but separation of powers prevents the courts from forcing the executive to engage in foreign policy. The proper remedy is to file a habeas petition prior to deportation. You may also be able to file a civil rights action for violation of rights assuming you even manage to get back to the country. Too bad, so sad. He has fucking telegraphed this shit and fucking Barrett joining the dissent should tell you that she knows what is about to happen too. 

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Posted
Just now, Dahobbs said:

The Court will not do that. And if it did, Trump will not do that. And the dude is probably already dead. 

Here is what Roberts will say: He should not have been deported and that was wrong, but separation of powers prevents the courts from forcing the executive to engage in foreign policy. The proper remedy is to file a habeas petition prior to deportation. You may also be able to file a civil rights action for violation of rights assuming you even manage to get back to the country. Too bad, so sad. He has fucking telegraphed this shit and fucking Barrett joining the dissent should tell you that she knows what is about to happen too. 

Gentleman's bet?

Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

You also can't read or understand legal opinions.

What's the remedy? How do you do it? 

Here is what we know you can't do:

1) enjoin the government from deporting you without notice

2) actually file a habeas petition because, you know, you weren't given notice

3) force the government to get you returned (because even if the court could order that, it doesn't practically matter if the other country doesn't want to return you). 

Edited by Dahobbs
Posted

Until a white female is sent off to El Salvador by mistake, people won’t give a shit IMO.

Too busy getting caught up with the clown show and watching their 401K

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

Gentleman's bet?

I'll bet $1,000 sent to this guys family that he doesn't get returned to the US within the next 2 years, if ever.  I truly hope I'm wrong and I'm paying. 

P.S. your take is still stupid. 

Edited by Dahobbs
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Posted
8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And you have lost your fucking Republic, you just haven't figured it out yet.

Spoiler alert: they don't know the difference between a Republic and a Fascist State, and when they learn it in real time they won't want their Republic back anyway.

I think a lot of us are waiting for these "A-ha!  Oh, shit!" realizations that aren't coming.  They're going to accept it all with open arms.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

I'll bet $1,000 sent to this guys family that he doesn't get returned to the US within the next 2 years, if ever.  I truly hope I'm wrong and I'm paying. 

But are you a gentleman?

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

What's the remedy? How do you do it? 

Here is what we know you can't do:

1) enjoin the government from deporting you without notice

2) actually file a habeas petition because, you know, you weren't given notice

3) force the government to get you returned (because even if the court could order that, it doesn't practically matter if the other country doesn't want to return you). 

File a habeas petition in the jurisdiction where I'm detained.  If they ship me off before I can do that then I also claim a violation of the 5th Amendment for lack of due process. My case will go through the courts and, if the courts follow the law (and their most recent opinion), I will be returned.
 

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Ojo Rojo said:

I will be returned.

haha.gif

I mean...I could also have posted that in response to "file a habeas petition" -- because there is no fucking way this Regime will actually provide anyone sufficient notice to allow them to do so.

You are down to one mechanism of defense against being disappeared at the whim of this regime.  The only question is "what caliber mechanism are you gonna have ready?"

Edited by Brisketexan
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Posted
Just now, Ojo Rojo said:

File a habeas petition in the jurisdiction where I'm detained.  If they ship me off before I can do that then I also claim a violation of the 5th Amendment for lack of due process. My case will go through the courts and, if the courts follow the law (and their most recent opinion), I will be returned.
 

I ask this with all due respect, are you mentally disabled?

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I'll bet $1,000 sent to this guys family that he doesn't get returned to the US within the next 2 years, if ever.  I truly hope I'm wrong and I'm paying. 

P.S. your take is still stupid. 

You don't have to do anything; that's what a gentleman's bet is. If it turns out I'm wrong I will be the first to accept and admit it.  I will also be the first out on the street with my torch and pitchfork.

Just now, royiv said:

I ask this with all due respect, are you mentally disabled?

Nope.  Just following the directions of the U.S. Supreme Court.

Posted
3 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

File a habeas petition in the jurisdiction where I'm detained.  If they ship me off before I can do that then I also claim a violation of the 5th Amendment for lack of due process. My case will go through the courts and, if the courts follow the law (and their most recent opinion), I will be returned.
 

Is there a name for what's wrong with you?  I don't want to laugh at a guy with an actual condition.

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

File a habeas petition in the jurisdiction where I'm detained.  If they ship me off before I can do that then I also claim a violation of the 5th Amendment for lack of due process. My case will go through the courts and, if the courts follow the law (and their most recent opinion), I will be returned.
 

LMAO.  You appear to be somewhat ignorant as to how the old rule of law is being rapidly eroded.  Are you actually a lawyer?

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Posted
Just now, TexArcher said:

Is there a name for what's wrong with you?  I don't want to laugh at a guy with an actual condition.

Non-histrionicism?

It's sad that a guy with some faith in the system gets insulted and shouted down like this. No dissenting opinions allowed? Sounds familiar. I haven't lost all hope yet, and for good reason.  None of this shit has played out, despite what anyone says. If all of you really believed that the Republic was dead, why haven't you done something?  I mean, something other than lament it on the internet. If the courts abandon the Constitution and bend the knee or if Trump Co. openly violates a final court order, then I'll believe it's over.

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

You don't have to do anything; that's what a gentleman's bet is. If it turns out I'm wrong I will be the first to accept and admit it.  I will also be the first out on the street with my torch and pitchfork.

It isn't a bet unless there is something at stake. Don't worry, I'll be reminding you regularly that you're wrong. 

Posted
1 minute ago, Ojo Rojo said:

If all of you really believed that the Republic was dead, why haven't you done something?  I mean, something other than lament it on the internet.

Because I have an aging parent to take care of.  When that's over, I'm out of here.  I'm going to check out Argentina next month, and next year to Costa Rica, Panama, and Spain.  And I'm learning Spanish.  I will watch the final death rattle of this failed empire from somewhere else.

So, I am doing something.  Not as fast as I'd like, but as fast as I can.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

It isn't a bet unless there is something at stake. Don't worry, I'll be reminding you regularly that you're wrong. 

AI Overview
 
A "gentleman's bet" typically refers to a wager, often involving no money, where the agreement to honor the outcome is based on honor and sportsmanship, rather than a formal contract. 
Posted
2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

It isn't a bet unless there is something at stake. Don't worry, I'll be reminding you regularly that you're wrong. 

Just be gentle. Ojo doesn’t like it rough.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

maybe you should step back and listen to what people are trying to tell you instead of telling yourself what you want to hear

So, agree with everyone here, or else?  

Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:
AI Overview
 
A "gentleman's bet" typically refers to a wager, often involving no money, where the agreement to honor the outcome is based on honor and sportsmanship, rather than a formal contract. 

You're missing the key distinction between "gentleman's bet" and any other undefined "bet" or "wager," none of which require that money be involved. The difference is that there's no legally enforceable contract holding participants to it.

Edit: 
So, what collateral are you willing to put up as part of this bet? It's got to have some value to you, or there are no stakes. If not money, is it your house, wife, children, pride, honor, internet points, time, labor, or something else?

Edited by bolverk
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Posted
26 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

File a habeas petition in the jurisdiction where I'm detained.  If they ship me off before I can do that then I also claim a violation of the 5th Amendment for lack of due process. My case will go through the courts and, if the courts follow the law (and their most recent opinion), I will be returned.
 

You sound like a child. How will you know where you’re detained? How will your lawyer know? I’m sure the regime is shaking in their boots at your 5th Amendment claim. Holy shit that’s hilarious. You still think they give a FUCK about you and your rights

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Posted
39 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

 

I know. What hasn't happened yet is that the case has not reached the end. Gentleman's bet - the courts will order him returned and he will be.

You also can't read or understand legal opinions.

It is possible that they come to the right result -- which to my mind would also include that habeas corpus is not the exclusive remedy here, with its narrow jurisdiction and venue -- but this step on the road is pretty fucking hideous really.  It is unprincipled in numerous ways.

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

So, agree with everyone here, or else?  

fuck, no, dude. no one here is saying that. but maybe, just maybe, when you're the ONLY one making particular point and there are highly knowledgeable and educated people telling you how and why you are wrong - kindly at first - and then more forcefully when you refuse to listen; it's incumbent on you to at least entertain what they are saying. you seem to refuse to do that. so much to the point that Dad (immamac) had to question your intentions. i dunno what to tell you beyond that.

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Posted

Normalcy bias and lack of imagination is blinding people like rojo as to what is happening and what lies ahead. It’s going to shock a lot of people when the regime fully unveils its fascist plans, but me and others here? Nope, I see it on the horizon

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Posted
20 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:
AI Overview
 
A "gentleman's bet" typically refers to a wager, often involving no money, where the agreement to honor the outcome is based on honor and sportsmanship, rather than a formal contract. 

I'll be pedantic if you will: look up the definition of wager. While a gentleman's bet may not wager money, it does wager something. That's what makes it a bet. What distinguishes a gentlemen's bet versus other bets is that it is not enforced by an outside party or agreement. It is strictly on the honor of the participants to fulfill their obligations under the bet. 

 

 

Posted
41 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

File a habeas petition in the jurisdiction where I'm detained.  If they ship me off before I can do that then I also claim a violation of the 5th Amendment for lack of due process. My case will go through the courts and, if the courts follow the law (and their most recent opinion), I will be returned.
 

Where is the law that states you will be returned? While I'm loathe to say it, I actually think the administration has a pretty good point on the whole the judicial branch can't force the executive branch to engage in foreign diplomacy thing. Roberts et al. are going to bite pretty hard on that. And that is why the habeas opinion is so fucking bad. 

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Posted
9 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I'll be pedantic if you will: look up the definition of wager. While a gentleman's bet may not wager money, it does wager something. That's what makes it a bet. What distinguishes a gentlemen's bet versus other bets is that it is not enforced by an outside party or agreement. It is strictly on the honor of the participants to fulfill their obligations under the bet. 

 

 

Jesus. Fine.  If I win you have to come on here and say, "Ekki-Ekki-Ekki-Ekki-PTANG."

Posted
13 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

Normalcy bias and lack of imagination is blinding people like rojo as to what is happening and what lies ahead. It’s going to shock a lot of people when the regime fully unveils its fascist plans, but me and others here? Nope, I see it on the horizon

"On the horizon?"  Dude...the horizon is here. When asked about disappearing US citizens to El Salvador....our fucking dictator SAID HE LOVES THE IDEA.

Quote

Reporter: “El Salvador – The president there said he would be willing to take American citizens in federal prison population. Is that one of the ideas you’re going to be discussing?” 

Trump: “I love that … I would be honored to give them. … I have suggested that, you know, why shouldn’t it stop just to people that cross the border illegally? … I think if we could get El Salvador or somebody to take them I’d be very happy with it.” 

We don't have to guess, or surmise, or any of that shit.  He fucking TOLD us.

This administration openly intends 1) to grab American citizens, and 2) ship them to foreign prisons beyond the reach of US courts.  Nevermind that it's horrific and unconstitutional enough to do so with regards to non-criminal aliens.  The Regime is going to treat US citizens the same way.

Your only remaining means of defense is....the ultimate and final means of defense.  That's what "beyond the reach of the rule of law" necessarily means.

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