Русский корабль - иди нахуй

[atomheartbevo 89304]

 

[G650 13847]

[atomheartbevo 89304]

 

[SimonBolivar 10890]

Anyone that's done deep dives on the Russian Revolution always sees d. 1937-1938 for pretty much everyone with any importance because of Stalin's craziness. I have a feeling the Wikipedia of Wagner people is going to have a shit ton of d. 2023 on them.

[atomheartbevo 89304]

 

[The Dog 43716]

I just want to remind everyone that Prigozhin is also a really bad dude. There's no "good guy" between he and Putin - both are evil and want to take over Ukraine. 

IMHO the best scenario is for Wagner to become such a nuisance that Russia has to pull troops from Ukraine in order to keep order and/or stop Wagner.

 

[SimonBolivar 10890]

Man I bet being in the Pentagon right now is a blast.

[The Dog 43716]

Here are a few insights into the situation surrounding Prigozhin:

1️⃣ For a long time, Prigozhin has been out of direct contact with Putin, yet he's believed he was acting in Putin's interests "by default". His significant contributions in the war enhanced his sense of exclusivity and privilege.

2️⃣ The President's administration maintained the stance that unless explicitly directed, it wasn't feasible to openly confront Prigozhin, despite a strong inclination to do so. In fact, they had even convinced themselves of his usefulness.

3️⃣ As I've previously stated, the atrocities of war can drive people to the brink of sanity. Even the most loyal players, who are dependent on the Kremlin (which doesn't imply complete manageability), can lose their sense of proportion. This is especially true when there appears to be no response to the continual attempts to escalate the situation.

4️⃣ Now that the state has actively engaged, there's no turning back. The termination of Prigozhin and Wagner is imminent. The only possibility now is absolute obliteration, with the degree of resistance from the Wagner group being the only variable. Surovikin was dispatched to convince them to surrender. Confrontation seems totally futile.

5️⃣ The impending end of Wagner has satisfied many in power. He had become excessively anti-state, which is intolerable during a war. However, a significant number of those outside of power now lament the loss of a character like Prigozhin, who had begun to appeal due to his daring and audacity. Consequently, political repercussions are expected.

A crucial point to note is that many within the elite will now personally fault Putin for letting the situation escalate to such extremes and for his lack of a timely, adequate response when to many it was evident that Prigozhin was pushing the limits of Kremlin's tolerance. Therefore, this entire saga is also an undercut to Putin's standing.

[Rimbo 25705]

2 minutes ago, The Dog said:

I just want to remind everyone that Prigozhin is also a really bad dude.

Of course. Russian history can be summarized in one sentence: "And then it got worse."

 

 

But as for me...

... I'm spent.

[SL Xpress 7503]

16 minutes ago, AUS-97HORN said:

Boris Yeltzin's finest hour

Let’s not pretend like he had a bunch of them to choose from. Which you didn’t. Yeltzin’s ONLY fine hour doesn’t have the same ring to it. 

[Schulz2.0 28710]

 

[Rimbo 25705]

1 minute ago, The Dog said:

Here are a few insights into the situation surrounding Prigozhin:

1️⃣ For a long time, Prigozhin has been out of direct contact with Putin, yet he's believed he was acting in Putin's interests "by default". His significant contributions in the war enhanced his sense of exclusivity and privilege.

2️⃣ The President's administration maintained the stance that unless explicitly directed, it wasn't feasible to openly confront Prigozhin, despite a strong inclination to do so. In fact, they had even convinced themselves of his usefulness.

3️⃣ As I've previously stated, the atrocities of war can drive people to the brink of sanity. Even the most loyal players, who are dependent on the Kremlin (which doesn't imply complete manageability), can lose their sense of proportion. This is especially true when there appears to be no response to the continual attempts to escalate the situation.

4️⃣ Now that the state has actively engaged, there's no turning back. The termination of Prigozhin and Wagner is imminent. The only possibility now is absolute obliteration, with the degree of resistance from the Wagner group being the only variable. Surovikin was dispatched to convince them to surrender. Confrontation seems totally futile.

5️⃣ The impending end of Wagner has satisfied many in power. He had become excessively anti-state, which is intolerable during a war. However, a significant number of those outside of power now lament the loss of a character like Prigozhin, who had begun to appeal due to his daring and audacity. Consequently, political repercussions are expected.

A crucial point to note is that many within the elite will now personally fault Putin for letting the situation escalate to such extremes and for his lack of a timely, adequate response when to many it was evident that Prigozhin was pushing the limits of Kremlin's tolerance. Therefore, this entire saga is also an undercut to Putin's standing.

Also... how exactly will Russia put down Wagner? With what army?

[The Dog 43716]

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Brisketexan 104226]

There are no "good guys" in the fight between Wagner and Russia, but there is DEFINITELY a good outcome.

Current main task of Ukrainian forces: attrit Russian forces.

Guaranteed outcome of Wagner v. Russia fight: attrit Russian forces.

Every dead Russian, every spent artillery round, every blown up APC....is one that Ukraine doesn't have to deal with in Ukraine.

 

I don't think Pierogi is a serious threat to Putin, in and of himself.  However, his relative power and success expose a weakness in Putin's judgment, and weakness = vulnerability.  There are other rivals who may seek Putin's power.  They may be much closer, and much more capable of seizing it.  Let Pierogi show what an idiot Putin is, and how weak he may appear.  Then, once Putin's forces manage to kill Pierogi....you take out Putin.

[atomheartbevo 89304]

3 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Also... how exactly will Russia put down Wagner? With what army?

Prigozhin is insane.  The whole sledgehammer out front could have told us that.

But I find the timing interesting.  On the one hand, the Russian ministry had imposed a July 1st deadline for Wagner to be absorbed into the Russian military.  Whether that's because the Russians were hurting for trained and equipped troops, or Prigozhin had been already been seen as a problem, or both, is irrelevant. Prigozhin was going to lose Wagner in a week.  And it's entirely possible that he has a bunch of them convinced they were going to be executed, and not brought into the Russian Army.

With that said, Prigozhin also knows Russian troop strengths, where they are deployed, what their actual reserves are like, what kind of transport they have, etc., and insane or not, he'd have a pretty solid idea of when and where to act. It sure as hell seems like the past few weeks have been him preparing something big, and it seemed to all coincide with the Ukrainian counter-offensive.

[The Dog 43716]

Rosgavardia are useless against Wagner - they are bullies whose only job is to beat up civilians. 

So this doesn't surprise me.

 

[Rimbo 25705]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

There are no "good guys" in the fight between Wagner and Russia, but there is DEFINITELY a good outcome.

Current main task of Ukrainian forces: attrit Russian forces.

Guaranteed outcome of Wagner v. Russia fight: attrit Russian forces.

This. Right here.

And no matter how much Pringle wants to fight Ukraine, in the unlikely event he does defeat Putin, there's going to be little left of Russia to do the job.

[Rimbo 25705]

Just now, The Dog said:

Rosgavardia are useless against Wagner - they are bullies whose only job is to beat up civilians. 

So this doesn't surprise me.

 

like i said... what exactly will putin use against prizgizzard?

[atomheartbevo 89304]

I have a feeling the misinformation is flowing hard and fast, both from Ukraine, but also from the anti-Putin crowd, so for all we know the reports of Wagner heading to Moscow are false, but are scaring the shit out of the Russians.

With that said, Russian state TV is taking this seriously.

 

[atomheartbevo 89304]

"General "Armageddon" Surovikin published a video calling Wagner to "obey the Supreme Commander".

"I have just returned by the order of the Ministry of Defence from the zero line, where our forces, our commanders, our soldiers, volunteers carry out the objective, fighting the superior enemy forces to death, take casualties, but stand on their positions.

I appeal to the leadership, commanders and fighters of PMC Wagner: Together with you, we walked a difficult path. Together with you, we fought, we took risks, we took losses, but overcome together. We are of the same blood. We are warriors. I call on you to stop.

The enemy is waiting for our internal political situation to aggravate. We shouldn’t play into the enemy’s hand in this difficult time for the country." It needs to be done before it’s too late: to obey the will and order of the people-elected President of the Russian Federation.

Stop the columns, and return them to their permanent positions and places of concentration. To solve all problems with civil means only under the leadership of the Supreme Commander of the Russian Armed Forces.

He is being slowly joined by other high-ranking commanders of the Russian army in similar videos."

[Dilligas 659]

It really comes off as a bad sitcom, complete with the “crying” propagandist sending it to the weather dude 😆.

[atomheartbevo 89304]

Shit is really going down if the airwaves are filling up with Russian military leaders telling Wagner to stand down and to stop the columns, and if the state TV is discussing Prigozhin and telling his followers they better shut the fuck up and stand down.

[Dilligas 659]

Could this be some farfetched contrived drama to entice Ukrainian forces into a full blown attack? Then Peyronie abruptly appears out of nowhere to crush the advance

[Kwix 2186]

2 minutes ago, Dilligas said:

Could this be some farfetched contrived drama to entice Ukrainian forces into a full blown attack? Then Peyronie abruptly appears out of nowhere to crush the advance

I would hope our satellites prevent surprise troop movements in meaningful numbers 

[atomheartbevo 89304]

4 minutes ago, Dilligas said:

Could this be some farfetched contrived drama to entice Ukrainian forces into a full blown attack? Then Peyronie abruptly appears out of nowhere to crush the advance

Crush the advance with what?  Ukrainians and the West have a very good idea of what Russia has, even if we civilians don't. If Russia had the forces to crush Ukraine in some manner, they wouldn't have given up all of territory they've lost lately.

Russia blew the dam.  They wouldn't have done that if they had the forces to fight back, because that dam fucked Russia a lot.

Plus, playing a game with a potential coup to fuck with Ukraine could embolden a bunch of Russians into starting an actual coup, thinking the real deal is happening.

Edited June 23, 2023 by atomheartbevo

[Dilligas 659]

Damn y’all are so serious all the time, just trying to have some fun ☹️. Can only take so much dam and reactor explosions.

Back to the Titan thread

[The Dog 43716]

 

[Ghost of LL 15327]

Peyote can say that he's only going against Shogun right now and that he's not challenging Putin.  But I've read enough medieval history to know that's what they always say.  And yeah--Russia is a medieval culture and society that is unfortunately nuclear armed.

But yeah--guys like Henry Bolingbroke invade and say "I'm not challenging the king; I'm just defending my dukedom."  And that last right up until their army defeats the king's.  And then suddenly there's a "oh, yeah--I'm going to be king after all."

Peyote is coming after Shogun, sure.  But he's also coming after Pootie-Poot.

 

 

Oh, and my next band is going to be named Peyote Shogun.

[27-25 2040]

Gonna need more popcorn

 

[SL Xpress 7503]

18 minutes ago, Dilligas said:

It really comes off as a bad sitcom, complete with the “crying” propagandist sending it to the weather dude 😆.

This does not come across as anything remotely resembling a "bad" sitcom. This comes across as one of the greatest parodies of all time, only it's real!

Stanley Kubrick would be watching this going, "How would I ever top this in a movie?"

. 

[Parliament 14086]

43 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Man I bet being in the Pentagon right now is a blast.

 

[27-25 2040]

 

[bolverk 29261]

In the inevitable Hollywood blockbuster to come, my vote is for Mike from Breaking Bad to play Prigozhin.

[Brisketexan 104226]

What I DO know is that Putin's little 3-day Special Operation is now officially in contention for "The Mother of all Backfires."

Plan was to waltz into Ukraine and loot it -- expanding Russia's effective border/buffer, and further enriching its oligarchs.

Outcome.....

Russia economically ostracized, LITERALLY cutting off its pipelines of cashflow from Europe.  And that ain't coming back.

Causing NATO to expand by adding two real-deal formidable countries (and Ukraine's future membership still TBD).

Already in demographic decline, causing the people who could drive Russia's economy to either flee, or die in the war.

Instead of demonstrating your military might to the world, demonstrating that your military is shit.

Instead of putting on a kick-ass advertisement for your military kit, so other countries would buy it, you've shown it to be shit and nobody's gonna be buying.

Not that it matters, because you can't fucking build any more kit anyway.

Instead of deposing the Ukrainian leadership, you've destabilized your own.

And there's more.  Those are just the biggies that jump out.  What an absolute fuck-up.

[SL Xpress 7503]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Plan was to waltz into Ukraine and loot it -- expanding Russia's effective border/buffer, and further enriching its oligarchs.

 

The only thing I'd change is that the plan was to erase Ukraine as a historical mistake. I don't like making it any nicer than what it really was/is.  

[G650 13847]

 

[Royalfan5 2344]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

What I DO know is that Putin's little 3-day Special Operation is now officially in contention for "The Mother of all Backfires."

Plan was to waltz into Ukraine and loot it -- expanding Russia's effective border/buffer, and further enriching its oligarchs.

Outcome.....

Russia economically ostracized, LITERALLY cutting off its pipelines of cashflow from Europe.  And that ain't coming back.

Causing NATO to expand by adding two real-deal formidable countries (and Ukraine's future membership still TBD).

Already in demographic decline, causing the people who could drive Russia's economy to either flee, or die in the war.

Instead of demonstrating your military might to the world, demonstrating that your military is shit.

Instead of putting on a kick-ass advertisement for your military kit, so other countries would buy it, you've shown it to be shit and nobody's gonna be buying.

Not that it matters, because you can't fucking build any more kit anyway.

Instead of deposing the Ukrainian leadership, you've destabilized your own.

And there's more.  Those are just the biggies that jump out.  What an absolute fuck-up.

I’m sure they would have sailed a good chunk of their navy halfway around the world to immediately get their asses kicked on arrival if given the chance too

[bolverk 29261]

So who's in charge of the ZPP right now?

[Eastwood 4394]

What a day it has turned into...

[InkaUtexas 25289]

 

[NAVY 6737]

This has an Orson Welles war of the worlds feel. I’m digging it doe 
 

 

[G650 13847]

If we go directly from the billionaire sub follies straight into a Russian coup, this week will go down in the history books.

[SL Xpress 7503]

10 minutes ago, Royalfan5 said:

I’m sure they would have sailed a good chunk of their navy halfway around the world to immediately get their asses kicked on arrival if given the chance too

I get this reference. 

[MillerEP 30311]

19 minutes ago, 27-25 said:

 

2nd in Russia? Did he forget to count the Freedom for Russia Legion in Belgorod?

[atomheartbevo 89304]

4 minutes ago, G650 said:

If we go directly from the billionaire sub follies straight into a Russian coup, this week will go down in the history books.

[InkaUtexas 25289]

14 minutes ago, Royalfan5 said:

I’m sure they would have sailed a good chunk of their navy halfway around the world to immediately get their asses kicked on arrival if given the chance too

[bolverk 29261]

I hope those Wagner dudes packed some snacks because it looks like it's going to be a nightmare getting out of Rostov.

[SquishMitten 10381]

I guess I see three possibilities for this right now:

1) It’s legit, and Prigelpotomus has decided that they’re all either going to die on the defense from Russian shelling or they can go out making a stand against Russian MOD,

2) It’s staged so that Russia can pull out of Ukraine, blaming it on civil unrest rather than defeat, or 

3) It’s staged so that Russia can sabotage the ZPP and claim it was Wagner rather than state sponsored. 

[InkaUtexas 25289]

23 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

What I DO know is that Putin's little 3-day Special Operation is now officially in contention for "The Mother of all Backfires."

Plan was to waltz into Ukraine and loot it -- expanding Russia's effective border/buffer, and further enriching its oligarchs.

Outcome.....

Russia economically ostracized, LITERALLY cutting off its pipelines of cashflow from Europe.  And that ain't coming back.

Causing NATO to expand by adding two real-deal formidable countries (and Ukraine's future membership still TBD).

Already in demographic decline, causing the people who could drive Russia's economy to either flee, or die in the war.

Instead of demonstrating your military might to the world, demonstrating that your military is shit.

Instead of putting on a kick-ass advertisement for your military kit, so other countries would buy it, you've shown it to be shit and nobody's gonna be buying.

Not that it matters, because you can't fucking build any more kit anyway.

Instead of deposing the Ukrainian leadership, you've destabilized your own.

And there's more.  Those are just the biggies that jump out.  What an absolute fuck-up.

Putin's new theme song. Yes, a master strategist indeed. 

 

[bolverk 29261]

1 minute ago, SquishMitten said:

3) It’s staged so that Russia can sabotage the ZPP and claim it was Wagner rather than state sponsored. 

Concerning.