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17 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Are you against protecting international shipping from terrorists? 

Of course not. That comment is more directed at the "Middle Easterners hate us and that will never change" comment, as if we aren't directly responsible for most of the hate we receive from that part of the world.

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27 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Oh. How surprising we have these takes. Almost like this was never about Palestine at all. 
 

 

 

FWIW I agree that online leftists are wilding out like complete morons about this in general. I also agree that they are just using Gaza as an excuse and don't really give a shit about it.

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1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

FWIW I agree that online leftists are wilding out like complete morons about this in general. I also agree that they are just using Gaza as an excuse and don't really give a shit about it.

I should clarify when I say "they", I mean the Houthis.

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5 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Yeah I agree, we should continue actively destroying the middle east. They hate us cuz they ain't us! America! Fuck yeah!

Well, that was not my argument. My argument is that the opinion of the “Arab or Middle East street” matters rather less than keeping global shipping going. 

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Anyway, this whole Houthi shit tracks so well with Russian justifications for their shit. “We have to shoot ballistic missiles at civilian vessels because we are mad at America and Israel”’ is up there with “you let Estonia into NATO ergo we must destroy Ukraine.” 
 

It’s fine to write journal articles analyzing this but eventually trying to untangle the mix of an hostile’s stew of grievance and excuses is a less relevant question than what ordnance to drop on them.  Unfortunately for the Houthis they are a bit behind the Russians in ICBM and associated technology so they get Tomahawks. 

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18 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Well, that was not my argument. My argument is that the opinion of the “Arab or Middle East street” matters rather less than keeping global shipping going. 

I was mainly just meme'ing, I understand your overall point.

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It's pretty damning of our use of force in the MidEast that, in attacking the Houthis, we can say with confidence, "Hey! We're doing the right thing this time!"

Maintaining right of passage and killing pirates is exactly what a navy is for. If our hands weren't so bloody from midadventures, such action might be applauded by much of the area.

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1 minute ago, RomaVicta said:

It's pretty damning of our use of force in the MidEast that, in attacking the Houthis, we can say with confidence, "Hey! We're doing the right thing this time!"

Maintaining right of passage and killing pirates is exactly what a navy is for. If our hands weren't so bloody from midadventures, such action might be applauded by much of the area.

I would agree, but not seeing major regional protests except from Iran. A bit from Turkey, but we all know the president there is an ass.

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Just about nobody benefits from interfering with trade. As you surely know, lack of protests isn't the same thing as applause or anything much positive. It will take generations to fix our relationship in the MidEast. We'll probably get off the hook when the Climate Disaster starts fucking things up.

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6 hours ago, Brisketexan said:


I mean…this. The navy is literally doing the exact thing that navies were created for. Against a legit, unarguably bad actor (trying to blow up civilian shipping is bad, and wrong, mmkay?).
Your last para is perfect. As stupid as blanket “American Exceptionalism” is, it’s in a passionate, kinky relationship with “Everything America Does is Evil-ism” - they share a perverse bond of stupidity.
What’s happening with the Houthis has nothing to do with Gaza, save and except as an excuse/pretext. All that it really is, is another example of Iran again sticking its dick in the global mashed potatoes to foment chaos. That’s it.

The extreme right and left both suck. 

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Just in case there remained any doubt as to whether Bibi was a piece of dick:

Quote

The U.S. has called on Israel to scale back its offensive and said that the establishment of a Palestinian state should be part of the “day after.”

But in a nationally broadcast news conference, Netanyahu vowed to press ahead with the offensive until Israel realizes a “decisive victory over Hamas.” He also rejected the idea of Palestinian statehood. He said he had relayed his positions to the Americans.

“In any future arrangement … Israel needs security control all territory west of the Jordan,” Netanyahu told a nationally broadcast news conference. “This collides with the idea of sovereignty. What can you do?”

“The prime minister needs to be capable of saying no to our friends,” he added.

So.  We have two sides, each functionally dominated by its more militant elements.  And each one pledging that there side will be the one dominating the region "from the river to the sea."

There is no end to this.  There never will be.

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1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Just in case there remained any doubt as to whether Bibi was a piece of dick:

So.  We have two sides, each functionally dominated by its more militant elements.  And each one pledging that there side will be the one dominating the region "from the river to the sea."

There is no end to this.  There never will be.

Bibi is such a piece of ass and it really rubs me the wrong way that he is so willing to publicly rub our nose in his mess. Trying to imagine the howls if Zelenskyy acted this way. I’d honestly be fine if we just went neutral at this point, although that would paradoxically make things even worse for non-Hamas civilians. 

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42 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Bibi is such a piece of ass and it really rubs me the wrong way that he is so willing to publicly rub our nose in his mess. Trying to imagine the howls if Zelenskyy acted this way. I’d honestly be fine if we just went neutral at this point, although that would paradoxically make things even worse for non-Hamas civilians. 

He only feels emboldened to do so because we enable him to with full throated public support. He has had no respect for us, ever.

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I also kinda want to point out the hypocrisy in his speech and what a lot of people on the side of Israel here love to use against Palestinians: The "from the river to the sea" phrase.

I would find it funny if it wasn't so tragic, but Netanyahu is essentially saying exactly that from his pulpit. The difference, of course, being that when Israelis say it, it's "not genocidal".

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2 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I also kinda want to point out the hypocrisy in his speech and what a lot of people on the side of Israel here love to use against Palestinians: The "from the river to the sea" phrase.

I would find it funny if it wasn't so tragic, but Netanyahu is essentially saying exactly that from his pulpit. The difference, of course, being that when Israelis say it, it's "not genocidal".

I mean.....I literally made a post above to call that out.  So, way to ignore shit to reach a conclusion that you want.  Bibi calling for that outcome is exactly the fucking problem, it's the other side of the same fucking problem coin from the pro-Palestinian crowd.  Yes, ANYONE taking that position is a piece of dick.  ANYONE.

 

Also, cracks are starting to show in Israel's war cabinet.  Bibi's popularity is plummeting.  Dissent is pointing out that Israel is engaging in horrific tactics, and for what?  Hamas remains a fighting force.  Hostages aren't being freed.  And importantly, Bibi's team is getting lots of criticism for there being no "end game," no planned outcome.  What does a victory look like, what is your actual goal -- not a vague "eliminate Hamas" statement, but what does the region look like when all is said and done.  Layer on the fact that the Saudis are openly on board with recognizing and supporting Israel if the solution involves a Palestinian state, and it's becoming quite apparent that if you actually support Israel and want it to have the best prospects for a relatively peaceful and secure existence going forward, a path of "don't fucking follow Bibi's plan" is pretty much a necessity.

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21 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I mean.....I literally made a post above to call that out.  So, way to ignore shit to reach a conclusion that you want.  Bibi calling for that outcome is exactly the fucking problem, it's the other side of the same fucking problem coin from the pro-Palestinian crowd.  Yes, ANYONE taking that position is a piece of dick.  ANYONE.

 

Also, cracks are starting to show in Israel's war cabinet.  Bibi's popularity is plummeting.  Dissent is pointing out that Israel is engaging in horrific tactics, and for what?  Hamas remains a fighting force.  Hostages aren't being freed.  And importantly, Bibi's team is getting lots of criticism for there being no "end game," no planned outcome.  What does a victory look like, what is your actual goal -- not a vague "eliminate Hamas" statement, but what does the region look like when all is said and done.  Layer on the fact that the Saudis are openly on board with recognizing and supporting Israel if the solution involves a Palestinian state, and it's becoming quite apparent that if you actually support Israel and want it to have the best prospects for a relatively peaceful and secure existence going forward, a path of "don't fucking follow Bibi's plan" is pretty much a necessity.

My bad dude I honestly didn't see it.

e: I saw your post but apparently didn't read past the quote lol

e2: Also I agree, anyone with that attitude is fucked up

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It’s far more accurate to say that Bibi feels like he must demonstrate his independence from Washington than that he is emboldened to do so.  Bibi is a populist who answers first to his constituency; it is a common error to overstate American influence either by support or the threat of withdrawing it. 

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There will be no ceasefire. How can Israel realistically do that when these are still the stated goals? Former Hamas leader says that they’re more emboldened after October 7. Also notes students all over the west going with the preferred chant. 
 

 

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On 1/22/2024 at 11:15 AM, Neonmoon said:

Hamas rejecting two state solution? NO WAY 

Palestinians need to kills these cunts 

Point of Order -- so has the Netanyahu government.  Loudly and pointedly, just this past week.

This is a great example of two groups each being led by their worst elements to achieve the worst, bloodiest possible outcome.

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There's a piece that came out this morning describing the indiscriminate mass detention of Palestinians during this conflict that's tantamount to kidnapping. The ICRC is investigating cases of thousands of vanished persons (half of whom are suspected of being held by the Israelis) but has only been given proof of life in a handful of cases. The UN and human rights groups are saying their mass detention and treatment could constitute violations of international law, including the torture of civilians.

I certainly won't hesitate to say that Hamas's treatment of hostages is worse, but the Israelis are supposed to be the good guys here: Western ally, "only democracy in the Middle East", etc.

Free link to the article for those interested so y'all can see photographs and click on all the links embedded within.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/23/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-palestinian-detainees.html?unlocked_article_code=1.P00.9q44.RPeBwbVazKtI&smid=url-share

 

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18 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

They just want peace, better schools, and infrastructure:

 

 

And around and around they go. A couple of days ago, Bibi's far-right government rejected a permanent ceasefire by Hamas.

https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/hostage-talks-continue-israel-rejects-hamas-demand-full-idf-withdrawal-rcna134975

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8 minutes ago, bolverk said:

 

And around and around they go. A couple of days ago, Bibi's far-right government rejected a permanent ceasefire by Hamas.

https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/hostage-talks-continue-israel-rejects-hamas-demand-full-idf-withdrawal-rcna134975

Why should the Israeli's agree to this?  One reason they likely don't want to release the hostages is they've killed or impregnated some while they've been hostages and they don't want that known. 

Hamas is demanding the permanent halt of fighting, a complete withdrawal of Israel forces from Gaza and the release of a large number of Palestinian prisoners, including some who carried out the Oct. 7 attack, according to Israeli officials.

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1 minute ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Why should the Israeli's agree to this?  One reason they likely don't want to release the hostages is they've killed or impregnated some while they've been hostages and they don't want that known. 

Hamas is demanding the permanent halt of fighting, a complete withdrawal of Israel forces from Gaza and the release of a large number of Palestinian prisoners, including some who carried out the Oct. 7 attack, according to Israeli officials.

Look, man, I'm not defending Hamas, but did you ignore the article I linked showing that thousands of Palestinian civilians are currently prisoners in violation of international law, and many are being tortured?

The ONLY points I've been points throughout this entire fucking thread are:

  1. Israel's hands are also not clean.
  2. The Palestinians have an inalienable right to have their own fully sovereign country, and the current government of Israel, led by Benjamin Netanyahu, has always been opposed to it and continues to flatly refuse to even consider it.
  3. The occupation of the West Bank and the continued increase in the number of settlements (i.e., colonies) both a) is against international law and b) further inflames the Palestinians.
  4. So long as that state of affairs continues, there is no hope of there ever being peace.
  5. Hamas fucking sucks, and far-right Israelis fucking suck. 

I don't see why you and others have a penchant for defending Israel's government in everything they do when its actions run counter to everything we, as Americans, are supposed to believe: self-determination; life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness; and all that jazz.

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On 1/18/2024 at 4:43 PM, 956 Worldwide said:

Bibi is such a piece of ass and it really rubs me the wrong way that he is so willing to publicly rub our nose in his mess. Trying to imagine the howls if Zelenskyy acted this way. I’d honestly be fine if we just went neutral at this point, although that would paradoxically make things even worse for non-Hamas civilians. 

I admire the way you re-examine your position. Compliments.

Neutrality is within the policy options that I would approve of. I would insist on humanitarian aid for Gaza which would be protected by the US and maybe NATO from interference from anyone.  I might even fill the skies with American/NATO planes when convoys or airlifts are conducted.

Again, I truly admire the working of your mind. 

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On 1/19/2024 at 11:38 AM, Brisketexan said:

What does a victory look like, what is your actual goal -- not a vague "eliminate Hamas" statement, but what does the region look like when all is said and done. 

Exactly what we should ask of such vague notions as "the war on terror." 

Again, I go to Woody Allen in Love and Death (sadly not nearly as good as I recall it) when he asked of a sergeant saying how Russia must win.

"What do we win?"

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@Aqua Buddha and @bolverk, instead of framing the Hamas offer as a “should,” it’s more useful to frame it as “realistic or not realistic.” And you have to admit that the Hamas offer is not realistic:

- Release every Palestinian including those that did October 7

- Accept our authority in Gaza

- Leave now

- In return you get the hostages that we took when we started this whole thing.

It is not realistic for Hamas to announce, right as they are getting their shit pushed in, “we are ready to accept your surrender anytime, Israel.”  It’s not a serious offer and was never meant to be.

We are able to instinctively understand this if we look at it as we look at Putin’s “peace offers” for Ukraine. By contrast the Israeli time-bound and limited proposal is at least a realistic starting point. 

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1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

I admire the way you re-examine your position. Compliments.

Neutrality is within the policy options that I would approve of. I would insist on humanitarian aid for Gaza which would be protected by the US and maybe NATO from interference from anyone.  I might even fill the skies with American/NATO planes when convoys or airlifts are conducted.

Again, I truly admire the working of your mind. 

Agree there needs to be a guaranteeing force, but not the US or NATO. It will be UN, maybe led by Pakistan who has a lot of experience (good and bad) with Peacekeeping operations. Air really does not fit in, just look at what Israel has been doing. Bombing night and day and still had to send in troops. Any air needed should come from Egypt or the Saudis.

This is convoy operations, and the convoy better have a mandate to not only show its teeth, but bite when warranted. This has been an issue with UN missions in the past.

US and NATO support as a reaction force on the ground at most, providing the logistics support. The second piece would not need to be DOD. It would probably fall to State and they have contracts in place just for this.

Also, US troops would be targets and bring back the concept we are colonizing, etc.

No matter what the solution is, someone is going to be pissed in a region full of weapons and acolytes.

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1 hour ago, InkaUtexas said:

Agree there needs to be a guaranteeing force, but not the US or NATO. It will be UN, maybe led by Pakistan who has a lot of experience (good and bad) with Peacekeeping operations. Air really does not fit in, just look at what Israel has been doing. Bombing night and day and still had to send in troops. Any air needed should come from Egypt or the Saudis.

This is convoy operations, and the convoy better have a mandate to not only show its teeth, but bite when warranted. This has been an issue with UN missions in the past.

US and NATO support as a reaction force on the ground at most, providing the logistics support. The second piece would not need to be DOD. It would probably fall to State and they have contracts in place just for this.

Also, US troops would be targets and bring back the concept we are colonizing, etc.

No matter what the solution is, someone is going to be pissed in a region full of weapons and acolytes.

Whatever works. Your plan looks fine to me.

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On 1/18/2024 at 2:47 PM, Brisketexan said:

Just in case there remained any doubt as to whether Bibi was a piece of dick:

So.  We have two sides, each functionally dominated by its more militant elements.  And each one pledging that there side will be the one dominating the region "from the river to the sea."

There is no end to this.  There never will be.

There is a lot of truth in this.  I do think that the Biden admin is being a little flaky in this deal. BB may well be a complete piece of shit, but he told the US what he was going to do when they started this offensive and we supported him right up until the point that we seem to not be supporting him. I think the whole concept of a measured response is simply absurd. This is war for the Israelis. Either one weapon delivered to Israel is too many or there really should be no limit. Our government under any administration is so busy trying to appease every loud voice that we wind up pissing everyone off.
 

as to a two state solution, it obviously sounds logical and the only sane thing to do from our perspective as Americans. From Israel’s perspective, they literally just tried it with Gaza, and it resulted in tens of thousands of missiles being shot into Israel, thousands of dead Israelis and tens of thousands of dead Palestinians. It was an absolute disaster by all accounts.  I can certainly understand why Israel does not want to try that again.
 

As to BB,s popularity, I think those opinion polls are not very accurate. I don’t think anyone likes to see mass killing, but deep down I think the majority of Israel’s are OK with this war going on until Hamas is effectively neutered. The absolute horrificness of the Hamas attacks just steeled Israel to the point that they are not going to stop this time. I hope for everyone’s sake that it can be done quickly and then BB rides off into the sunset.

 

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3 hours ago, sheeeit said:

There is a lot of truth in this.  I do think that the Biden admin is being a little flaky in this deal. BB may well be a complete piece of shit, but he told the US what he was going to do when they started this offensive and we supported him right up until the point that we seem to not be supporting him. I think the whole concept of a measured response is simply absurd. This is war for the Israelis. Either one weapon delivered to Israel is too many or there really should be no limit. Our government under any administration is so busy trying to appease every loud voice that we wind up pissing everyone off.
 

as to a two state solution, it obviously sounds logical and the only sane thing to do from our perspective as Americans. From Israel’s perspective, they literally just tried it with Gaza, and it resulted in tens of thousands of missiles being shot into Israel, thousands of dead Israelis and tens of thousands of dead Palestinians. It was an absolute disaster by all accounts.  I can certainly understand why Israel does not want to try that again.
 

As to BB,s popularity, I think those opinion polls are not very accurate. I don’t think anyone likes to see mass killing, but deep down I think the majority of Israel’s are OK with this war going on until Hamas is effectively neutered. The absolute horrificness of the Hamas attacks just steeled Israel to the point that they are not going to stop this time. I hope for everyone’s sake that it can be done quickly and then BB rides off into the sunset.

 

It’s ingenuous to say that Israel literally tried a two state solution with Gaza.  Nothing about Gaza over the last twenty years even remotely approximates a functioning state - not when Israel controls its borders, food, water, electricity, etc, doesn’t allow it to engage in commerce with the rest of the world, controls the movement of its people into and out of it, etc.  

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3 minutes ago, Jatrain said:

It’s ingenuous to say that Israel literally tried a two state solution with Gaza.  Nothing about Gaza over the last twenty years even remotely approximates a functioning state - not when Israel controls its borders, food, water, electricity, etc, doesn’t allow it to engage in commerce with the rest of the world, controls the movement of its people into and out of it, etc.  

 

 

I may be wrong but I read that no one from the Palestinian side has stepped up and offered to take control of the borders, food, water, electricity, etc, As far as I know, hamas has never offered to do any of this and they received 100's of  millions of dollars a year in funding from Arab nations. They buy weapons and build tunnels instead

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1 hour ago, Smax said:

 

 

I may be wrong but I read that no one from the Palestinian side has stepped up and offered to take control of the borders, food, water, electricity, etc, As far as I know, hamas has never offered to do any of this and they received 100's of  millions of dollars a year in funding from Arab nations. They buy weapons and build tunnels instead

Billions if you include the UN and other donors.

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3 hours ago, Smax said:

 

 

I may be wrong but I read that no one from the Palestinian side has stepped up and offered to take control of the borders, food, water, electricity, etc, As far as I know, hamas has never offered to do any of this and they received 100's of  millions of dollars a year in funding from Arab nations. They buy weapons and build tunnels instead

Water allocation in Israel, the West Bank and Gaza was negotiated in the Oslo 2 accords.  However:

1.)  According to the World Bank, despite being allocated 4 times as much water from the Mountain Aquifer (the primary water source for the West Bank), the Israeli’s have extracted over 80% more than their negotiated allotment.  Palestinian use has fallen year over year as they’ve been only able to sink less than half of their allowed well capacity.  Israel forbids Palestinians to sink wells in the West Bank (but allows settlers to do so).  West Bank Palestinians are denied any water from the Jordan River, the Sea of Galilee and other local rivers as Israeli diverts it before it reaches the West Bank. In total, 80-85% of the usable water in the West Bank is reserved for settlers and Israeli farming or diverted into Israel. (Cites available upon request)
 

2.) Gaza’s only groundwater source is the Coastal Aquifer.  However, Israeli has install a series of wells along the border and captures much of this water before it flows into Gaza.  They then turn around and sell this water to Gaza.  The water that makes it to Gaza is highly contaminated and polluted and is barely drinkable.  Israeli forbids Palestinians from transporting water from the West Bank to Gaza.  

3.)  There are a number of desalination plants but the Israeli blockade makes procurement of chemicals and spare parts difficult. Of course who knows how many of those are still standing?  They’re might have been Hamas somewhere nearby. 
 

4.) The Palestinian’s do attempt to control water policy within its borders.  The have water policy boards at both the National and municipal levels, however, it’s hard to implement water policy when your main sources of water are outside of your control and limited by another country.  (See 1 and 2).  

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19 hours ago, Jatrain said:

It’s ingenuous to say that Israel literally tried a two state solution with Gaza.  Nothing about Gaza over the last twenty years even remotely approximates a functioning state - not when Israel controls its borders, food, water, electricity, etc, doesn’t allow it to engage in commerce with the rest of the world, controls the movement of its people into and out of it, etc.  

there is context here that is very important.  I actually think you bringing that up is the one being disingenuous.
 

I may not have my dates exactly right but Israel vacated Gaza and turned it over to the Palestinians in 2005.  Initially, there were no restrictions on trade. Within the first six months of taking control, over 1000 rockets were fired into Israel from Gaza.  1000. Even then the Israelis did not restrict trade. Additionally, there were several suicide bomb terrorist attacks, as well as a tunnel attack on Israel from Gaza. It wasn’t until Hamas became the elected leader of Gaza that Israel really started to take control.

And, the thing that nobody really seems to talk about that much, Egypt also imposed the same kinds of restrictions on the flow of goods into Gaza.  
 

 

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28 minutes ago, sheeeit said:

there is context here that is very important.  I actually think you bringing that up is the one being disingenuous.
 

I may not have my dates exactly right but Israel vacated Gaza and turned it over to the Palestinians in 2005.  Initially, there were no restrictions on trade. Within the first six months of taking control, over 1000 rockets were fired into Israel from Gaza.  1000. Even then the Israelis did not restrict trade. Additionally, there were several suicide bomb terrorist attacks, as well as a tunnel attack on Israel from Gaza. It wasn’t until Hamas became the elected leader of Gaza that Israel really started to take control.

And, the thing that nobody really seems to talk about that much, Egypt also imposed the same kinds of restrictions on the flow of goods into Gaza.  
 

 

You have literally no fucking clue what you're talking about, or you're just flat out lying. Frankly, it doesn't matter considering this has been the case since you created your account. The next topic you engage with in good faith in the CR will be the first. Fuck off.

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6 hours ago, sheeeit said:

there is context here that is very important.  I actually think you bringing that up is the one being disingenuous.
 

I may not have my dates exactly right but Israel vacated Gaza and turned it over to the Palestinians in 2005.  Initially, there were no restrictions on trade. Within the first six months of taking control, over 1000 rockets were fired into Israel from Gaza.  1000. Even then the Israelis did not restrict trade. Additionally, there were several suicide bomb terrorist attacks, as well as a tunnel attack on Israel from Gaza. It wasn’t until Hamas became the elected leader of Gaza that Israel really started to take control.

And, the thing that nobody really seems to talk about that much, Egypt also imposed the same kinds of restrictions on the flow of goods into Gaza.  
 

 

“Israel claims it no longer occupies the Gaza Strip, maintaining that it is neither a State nor a territory occupied or controlled by Israel, but rather it has 'sui generis' status. Pursuant to the Disengagement Plan, Israel dismantled all military institutions and settlements in Gaza and there is no longer a permanent Israeli military or civilian presence in the territory. However, the Plan also provided that Israel will guard and monitor the external land perimeter of the Gaza Strip, will continue to maintain exclusive authority in Gaza air space, and will continue to exercise security activity in the sea off the coast of the Gaza Strip as well as maintaining an Israeli military presence on the Egyptian-Gaza border, and reserving the right to reenter Gaza at will. Israel continues to control six of Gaza's seven land crossings, its maritime borders and airspace and the movement of goods and persons in and out of the territory. Egypt controls one of Gaza's land crossings. Gaza is also dependent on Israel for water, electricity, telecommunications and other utilities, currency, issuing IDs, and permits to enter and leave the territory. Israel also has sole control of the Palestinian Population Registry through which the Israeli Army regulates who is classified as a Palestinian and who is a Gazan or West Banker. Since 2000 aside from a limited number of exceptions Israel has refused to add people to the Palestinian Population Registry. It is this direct external control over Gaza and indirect control over life within Gaza that has led the United Nations, the UN General Assembly, the UN Fact Finding Mission to Gaza, International human rights organisations, US Government websites, the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office and a significant number of legal commentators, to reject the argument that Gaza is no longer occupied”.


Sanger, Andrew (2011). "The Contemporary Law of Blockade and the Gaza Freedom Flotilla". In M.N. Schmitt; Louise Arimatsu; Tim McCormack (eds.). Yearbook of International Humanitarian Law - 2010. Vol. 13. Springer Science & Business Media. p. 429

 

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https://www.npr.org/2024/01/26/1227078791/icj-israel-genocide-gaza-palestinians-south-africa

Quote

Donoghue outlined the provisional measures and how each judge voted. The court voted 15 votes to two on the order that Israel must take all measures in its power to stop anything in relation to genocide in Gaza. By 16 votes to 1, the court voted that Israel needs to take all measures within its powers to prevent and punish those involved with inciting genocide against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.

Also by a vote of 16 to 1, the court said that Israel must take "immediate and effective" measures to ensure the provision of urgently needed humanitarian aid and basic services.

The court also ordered Israel to take effective measures to prevent destruction and ensure preservation of any evidence related to the charge of genocide. The court gave Israel 30 days to report back on measures taken.

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240126-ord-01-00-en.pdf

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