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WTF Pelosi?!?

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Rep. Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., on Sunday said she hopes to ask the FBI to investigate protesters calling for a cease-fire in the Israel-Hamas war and suggested that some of the antiwar demonstrations are linked to Russia.

During an interview on CNN’s “State of the Union,” the former House speaker shared her belief that some of the protesters are “connected” to Russian President Vladimir Putin.

“For them to call for a cease-fire is Mr. Putin’s message, Mr. Putin’s message. Make no mistake. This is directly connected to what he would like to see. Same thing with Ukraine. It’s about Putin’s message,” Pelosi said.

This pisses me off. It's possible to have some serious moral qualms about the slaughter of innocent Palestinians without being on Putin's payroll.

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Turns out the U.N. is as anti-Semitic as some have claimed. 
https://www.state.gov/statement-on-unrwa-allegations/

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The United States is extremely troubled by the allegations that twelve UNRWA employees may have been involved in the October 7 Hamas terrorist attack on Israel.  The Department of State has temporarily paused additional funding for UNRWA while we review these allegations and the steps the United Nations is taking to address them.

Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken spoke with United Nations Secretary General Antonio Guterres on January 25 to emphasize the necessity of a thorough and swift investigation of this matter.  We welcome the decision to conduct such an investigation and Secretary General Guterres’ pledge to take decisive action to respond, should the allegations prove accurate.  We also welcome the UN’s announcement of a “comprehensive and independent” review of UNRWA.  There must be complete accountability for anyone who participated in the heinous attacks of October 7.

UNRWA plays a critical role in providing lifesaving assistance to Palestinians, including essential food, medicine, shelter, and other vital humanitarian support.  Their work has saved lives, and it is important that UNRWA address these allegations and take any appropriate corrective measures, including reviewing its existing policies and procedures.

The United States has reached out to the Government of Israel to seek more information about these allegations, and we have briefed Members of Congress.  We will remain in close contact with the United Nations and Government of Israel regarding this matter.

 

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https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/27/middleeast/unrwa-israel-hamas-october-7-allegations-intl/index.html
 

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What are the allegations?

Details remain scant. Neither Israel nor UNRWA have specified the nature of the alleged involvement of UNRWA employees in the events of October 7.

An Israeli official told CNN on Friday that Israel shared information about 12 staffers allegedly involved in the October 7 attacks both with UNRWA and the US.

The head of Israel’s Military Intelligence Directorate, Maj. Gen. Aharon Haliva, met with senior US officials on Friday and gave them “specific names and which organizations they are affiliated with, whether Hamas or PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad) or others, and what exactly they did on October 7,” the Israeli official said.

“We showed them that we had solid intelligence from difference sources.”

An Israeli official familiar with how the intelligence was gathered said it was taken from Hamas computers and documents confiscated during operations in Gaza, and from interrogations of detainees and alleged terrorists.

Israeli officials say some of the attackers who were killed or detained on October 7 had UNRWA IDs on them. CNN was not shown the IDs or other intelligence.

UNRWA Commissioner-General Philippe Lazzarini has said he received “information about the alleged involvement of several employees.” To protect the agency’s ability to deliver humanitarian assistance in Gaza, he decided “to immediately terminate the contracts of these staff members and launch an investigation in order to establish the truth,” a statement said.

Any UNRWA employee who was involved in acts of terror “will be held accountable, including through criminal prosecution,” he added.

In a statement Sunday, UN Secretary-General António Guterres said nine of the 12 UNRWA staff members at the center of the allegations had been fired. One other was dead and the identities of two others were still “being clarified.”

“Any UN employee involved in acts of terror will be held accountable, including through criminal prosecution,” Guterres said, adding that an independent review is forthcoming.

In addition to the staffers’ alleged October 7 involvement, the Israel Defense Forces on Saturday alleged in a statement to CNN that UNRWA facilities were used for “terrorist purposes.”

Asked about that claim, the agency told CNN, “We don’t have more information on this at this stage. The Office of Internal Oversight Services (the internal oversight body of the UN) will look into all these allegations as part of the investigation the Commissioner General of UNRWA has requested them to undertake.”

In a statement Saturday, Hamas criticized the decision to end the employees’ contracts, and accused Israel of trying to undermine UNRWA and other organizations providing humanitarian relief in Gaza.

 

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I should also note, that cutting off support to what I believe is the largest single source of humanitarian aid for 2+ million Gazans over the alleged actions of a dozen people out of an organization that employs like 30,000 people is an act of pure cruelty.

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30 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I should also note, that cutting off support to what I believe is the largest single source of humanitarian aid for 2+ million Gazans over the alleged actions of a dozen people out of an organization that employs like 30,000 people is an act of pure cruelty.

I wouldn't get twisted over Gidnik. He makes drive-by posts in here every once in a blue moon but he never engages. 

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Finally caught up with my cousin that has lived in Tel Aviv for several years. Married to a Russian Jew that holds both passports so we had a wide ranging discussion. 

 

They were in Berlin on October 7th and I think have only been back to Tel Aviv for a few days since then. Have been back in Texas the last couple months. 

 

He's obviously very pro-Israel so take these comments with a grain of salt. He says even the left leaning Israelis have been hardened by the attacks and are fully committed to the defense. Many of the more “tolerant” Israelis lived in the South, close to Gaza. Almost as a sign of their openness. To then have them be the ones terrorized was not lost on people.

 

In the next month or so, he thinks they have to address the situation with Hezbollah. Says it is underreported in the states how many rockets are being fired still from Lebanon into northern Israel. The amount of Israelis displaced from the north and living in hotels or abroad and waiting to come home is substantial which makes it even more pressing to deal with Hezbollah, in his opinion. Then there's the concern of what happens with Iran when that occurs. Potential for escalation? He only sees conflict intensifying. 

 

Sorry to tell this board that he does think Biden’s state is fueling a lot of this unrest. Throughout Europe and Middle East his mental state is much more openly discussed. In the Middle East/Islamic world especially there is much more respect for the strongman archetype in leaders. It's clear that is not what is seen globally in POTUS. 

 

Might put the Russia stuff in the other thread. 

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On 1/24/2024 at 9:58 PM, Jatrain said:

“Israel claims it no longer occupies the Gaza Strip, maintaining that it is neither a State nor a territory occupied or controlled by Israel, but rather it has 'sui generis' status. Pursuant to the Disengagement Plan, Israel dismantled all military institutions and settlements in Gaza and there is no longer a permanent Israeli military or civilian presence in the territory. However, the Plan also provided that Israel will guard and monitor the external land perimeter of the Gaza Strip, will continue to maintain exclusive authority in Gaza air space, and will continue to exercise security activity in the sea off the coast of the Gaza Strip as well as maintaining an Israeli military presence on the Egyptian-Gaza border, and reserving the right to reenter Gaza at will. Israel continues to control six of Gaza's seven land crossings, its maritime borders and airspace and the movement of goods and persons in and out of the territory. Egypt controls one of Gaza's land crossings. Gaza is also dependent on Israel for water, electricity, telecommunications and other utilities, currency, issuing IDs, and permits to enter and leave the territory. Israel also has sole control of the Palestinian Population Registry through which the Israeli Army regulates who is classified as a Palestinian and who is a Gazan or West Banker. Since 2000 aside from a limited number of exceptions Israel has refused to add people to the Palestinian Population Registry. It is this direct external control over Gaza and indirect control over life within Gaza that has led the United Nations, the UN General Assembly, the UN Fact Finding Mission to Gaza, International human rights organisations, US Government websites, the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office and a significant number of legal commentators, to reject the argument that Gaza is no longer occupied”.


Sanger, Andrew (2011). "The Contemporary Law of Blockade and the Gaza Freedom Flotilla". In M.N. Schmitt; Louise Arimatsu; Tim McCormack (eds.). Yearbook of International Humanitarian Law - 2010. Vol. 13. Springer Science & Business Media. p. 429

 

Nothing in this post negates what I said.  The unarguable fact is that in the Fall of 2005 residents of Gaza had virtually no limitations on importing/exporting goods and services that were not weapons.  Food, clothing, other goods etc were inspected by Israel, as any country would do coming off of the hostilities, but there were no embargos.  But instead of building up their new territory they justed started launching rockets/missiles into Israel.  Literally within months of the Israeli pullout.  

Also, note to all peoples everywhere, if you rely on a country for your water, electric, technology, fuel etc, you probably should not fire rockets at them.

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Yeah, it’s more than 12 in UNRWA. Those are just the employees that actively participated in the massacre. 
 
Israel says there are 190 radicalized employees and 1,200 members of Hamas (technically a political party, although, also a terrorist group). Roughly half of UNRWA have close family in Hamas. 
 
The UN needs to start all over on this, in my opinion. Hamas is not serving Gazans, therefore, UNRWA is not serving Gazans. 

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UNRWA is a self-licking ice cream cone at the top that simply serves to perpetuate UNRWA as an institution. It’s been 70+ years that this temporary response agency has existed. The international staff are out of a job if the Palestine-Israel issue is resolved or even gets better. 

In the middle it is simply co-opted by whomever is the political authority in the territories, as a major source of funding, material, and patronage that is almost wholly staffed by Palestinians it is naive in the extreme to maintain that Hamas was not incredibly institutionally influential. 
 

Israel shared specific information about 13 people they could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt actually raped and killed.  That doesn’t go into the level of cooption needed to use facilities and structures to hide.  It’s far more than 12 people.

Saying we can’t stop giving to it because it’s so critical is begging the question. Hamas has co-opted all institutions in Gaza and holds them hostage.  There’s no reason aid has to go through UNRWA and it’s not unreasonable to send it another way if UNRWA can’t get its house in order. 
 

Also, it’s amazing how the governments that are the targets of protests are the same ones that literally have been keeping this shit show of an agency afloat.  
 

image.thumb.jpeg.13aa399b0ef48ccea3b01f39e46ec816.jpeg


 

 

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1 minute ago, 956 Worldwide said:

UNRWA is a self-licking ice cream cone at the top that simply serves to perpetuate UNRWA as an institution. It’s been 70+ years that this temporary response agency has existed. The international staff are out of a job if the Palestine-Israel issue is resolved or even gets better. 

In the middle it is simply co-opted by whomever is the political authority in the territories, as a major source of funding, material, and patronage that is almost wholly staffed by Palestinians it is naive in the extreme to maintain that Hamas was not incredibly institutionally influential. 
 

Israel shared specific information about 13 people they could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt actually raped and killed.  That doesn’t go into the level of cooption needed to use facilities and structures to hide.  It’s far more than 12 people.

Saying we can’t stop giving to it because it’s so critical is begging the question. Hamas has co-opted all institutions in Gaza and holds them hostage.  There’s no reason aid has to go through UNRWA and it’s not unreasonable to send it another way if UNRWA can’t get its house in order. 
 

Also, it’s amazing how the governments that are the targets of protests are the same ones that literally have been keeping this shit show of an agency afloat.  
 

image.thumb.jpeg.13aa399b0ef48ccea3b01f39e46ec816.jpeg


 

 

You know what I see there?  This: "**Belgium (including Government of Flanders)"  

I've been telling you guys for YEARS - BELGIUM IS NOT A REAL COUNTRY.  IT'S JUST A COLLECTION OF LYING FLEMISH AND WALLOON BASTARDS.

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2 hours ago, statsman said:

Yeah, it’s more than 12 in UNRWA. Those are just the employees that actively participated in the massacre. 
 
Israel says there are 190 radicalized employees and 1,200 members of Hamas (technically a political party, although, also a terrorist group). Roughly half of UNRWA have close family in Hamas. 
 
The UN needs to start all over on this, in my opinion. Hamas is not serving Gazans, therefore, UNRWA is not serving Gazans. 

I'm gonna need to see some evidence that maybe isn't directly from Israel, considering they're not exactly an unbiased or even reliable source on information re: Gaza/WB. I'm almost positive we will never see a shred of evidence for this, Western media will report it as fact nonetheless, and then everyone will move on, as is what usually happens.

Nothing 956 said was really wrong or out of line, but the goal here probably isn't to shift aid through another vector, but to end it entirely. But you know, it's totally *not* a genocide.

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A major flaw in the UN system is what he stated. From Haiti to Bosnia to Gaza. If the mission ends, so do the high paying expat jobs. They rely on local employees to do the actual jobs and rarely leave their secure compounds to verify. Their security personnel give little fucks about verification. So your best way in is if a cousin who works there recommends and is the vetting element. The UN sounds great on paper. When you see them operate, like a lot of organizations, you just pour another scotch and say fuck it.

 The aid they need is sitting in warehouses in Egypt or if support, Djibouti or Dubai. They don't get a check and then go out and buy the aid they need. Supply chains for some of this stuff takes time. In Gaza they run the schools. So you think they would know what is in the curriculum and it is pretty openly agreed that it was anti-Israel, pro-Hamas material.

I advocated early that there should be a humanitarian corridor run by the Red Crescent from Egypt into Gaza. Food, water, medicine. Reconstruction comes later. If someone in Gaza needs cement and rebar right not they are probably doing ok concerning the basics.

I am surprised it is only 12. If you are Hamas, the UN is the first group you want to get people into.

 

 

 

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Not a good look at all. I mean if they are locked up in a hospital, block their phones? Let them sit there and eat the crap food? Nah, lets dress up and go kill these three inside.

JENIN, West Bank (AP) — Israeli forces disguised as civilian women and medical workers stormed a hospital Tuesday in the occupied West Bank, killing three Palestinian militants in a dramatic raid that underscored how deadly violence has spilled into the territory from the war in Gaza.

The Palestinian Health Ministry said Israeli forces opened fire inside the wards of the Ibn Sina Hospital in the town of Jenin. The ministry condemned the raid and called on the international community to pressure Israel’s military to halt such operations in hospitals. A hospital spokesperson said there was no exchange of fire, indicating that it was a targeted killing.

The military said the militants were using the hospital as a hideout, without providing evidence. It alleged that one of those targeted in the raid had transferred weapons and ammunition to others for a planned attack, purportedly inspired by the Hamas assault on southern Israel on Oct. 7 that triggered the war in Gaza.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-01-30-2024-b1ba33c7c0c5c62f85932a20c2a0bc92

 

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3 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Not a good look at all. I mean if they are locked up in a hospital, block their phones? Let them sit there and eat the crap food? Nah, lets dress up and go kill these three inside.

JENIN, West Bank (AP) — Israeli forces disguised as civilian women and medical workers stormed a hospital Tuesday in the occupied West Bank, killing three Palestinian militants in a dramatic raid that underscored how deadly violence has spilled into the territory from the war in Gaza.

The Palestinian Health Ministry said Israeli forces opened fire inside the wards of the Ibn Sina Hospital in the town of Jenin. The ministry condemned the raid and called on the international community to pressure Israel’s military to halt such operations in hospitals. A hospital spokesperson said there was no exchange of fire, indicating that it was a targeted killing.

The military said the militants were using the hospital as a hideout, without providing evidence. It alleged that one of those targeted in the raid had transferred weapons and ammunition to others for a planned attack, purportedly inspired by the Hamas assault on southern Israel on Oct. 7 that triggered the war in Gaza.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-01-30-2024-b1ba33c7c0c5c62f85932a20c2a0bc92

 

Maybe. But not as bad a look as running into a preschool or a nursery and capping/burning/decapitating the toddlers. 

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11 minutes ago, statsman said:

Maybe. But not as bad a look as running into a preschool or a nursery and capping/burning/decapitating the toddlers. 

Have never defended Hamas. They are a terrorist organization and deserve to be fucked up. Just saying, this ain't a good look. On the DT thread it was stated this might be off videos.

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32 minutes ago, statsman said:

Maybe. But not as bad a look as running into a preschool or a nursery and capping/burning/decapitating the toddlers. 

Buddy, what you really don't want to do is get into an atrocity-off/discussion about who has more blood on their hands on this topic if you're for some reason still staunchly on the side of Israel.

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20 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Have never defended Hamas. They are a terrorist organization and deserve to be fucked up. Just saying, this ain't a good look. On the DT thread it was stated this might be off videos.

Why does it matter where terrorists are killed?  If they are hiding out in a "hospital" and only Hamas and Palestine Jihad assholes were killed (i.e., not a bunch of hospitalized civilians) - it sounds like a pretty good operation from where I sit.  Not a 'bad look'.   

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Free link to a really wonderful essay on the West Bank by Roger Cohen. Long read.

“Fear makes us brutal to each other,” he said. “We are the victims of the victims who suffered the Holocaust.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/31/magazine/west-bank-palestinians-settlers.html?unlocked_article_code=1.R00.zuxj.GZOELza4RvMR&bgrp=t&smid=url-share

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The hospital raid is an interesting case that in most interpretations I can see, look not so great for Israel. 
 

First— we have to figure out what rules apply.  Should the Laws of Armed Conflict (LOAC) apply? Maybe so. U.S. GWOT interpretation is that terrorists may be targeted as combatants in any location, not just in theatre.  So even if there is no war in the West Bank, these individuals are at war with Israel and may be targeted. But this poses some issues with the raid, as I will get into.

But maybe LOAC doesn’t apply, and this is a law enforcement operation. After all, Israel’s Shin Bet and not the military appears to have done this, and there is no war in the West Bank. In that case, International Human Rights Law applies (IHRL). More problems. 
 

If LOAC applies then Israel committed perfidy by dressing up as a protected class (medical workers). If IRHL applies, then this was an illegal targeted assassination. Either way— it’s clear to me at least that the raid is a problem. It might not have been if the argument is LOAC and they rolled in without the doctor disguises. 

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13 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The hospital raid is an interesting case that in most interpretations I can see, look not so great for Israel. 
 

First— we have to figure out what rules apply.  Should the Laws of Armed Conflict (LOAC) apply? Maybe so. U.S. GWOT interpretation is that terrorists may be targeted as combatants in any location, not just in theatre.  So even if there is no war in the West Bank, these individuals are at war with Israel and may be targeted. But this poses some issues with the raid, as I will get into.

But maybe LOAC doesn’t apply, and this is a law enforcement operation. After all, Israel’s Shin Bet and not the military appears to have done this, and there is no war in the West Bank. In that case, International Human Rights Law applies (IHRL). More problems. 
 

If LOAC applies then Israel committed perfidy by dressing up as a protected class (medical workers). If IRHL applies, then this was an illegal targeted assassination. Either way— it’s clear to me at least that the raid is a problem. It might not have been if the argument is LOAC and they rolled in without the doctor disguises. 

Something, something, dont quote laws to men with swords. 

As conflicts get more advanced around the world in the near future, these rules and legal agreements will have less and less relevance. I don't have a problem with it. 

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On 1/30/2024 at 12:16 PM, Brian Fantana said:

Buddy, what you really don't want to do is get into an atrocity-off/discussion about who has more blood on their hands on this topic if you're for some reason still staunchly on the side of Israel.

Yes, even though 1,200 Israelis were massacred on Oct. 7, I can’t doubt that more Palestinian civilians have been killed by IDF. (I can doubt the numbers provided by Hamas, without doubting that more Palestinians are killed). That is a human tragedy, not a statistic. 
 
I blame Hamas. They shelter, intentionally, among civilians. They launch missiles from Gazan public health centers. They use the civilian populace as shields. If they could wrap their militants with Palestinian babies, instead of body armor, they would. 
 
Using such tactics, they present their opponents with choices:

1. Attack, and be internationally vilified (by anti-Zionist, of course; never anti-Semites) as baby-killers

2. Adopt tactics that rely heavily on boots on the ground, so as to minimize collateral damage to innocents. This puts the troops at greater risk (and Hamas and Fatah have shown that they treat captured IDF like the Comanche treated Rangers)

3. Just back off and go back to status quo. Trade a few thousand prisoners for the few dozen hostages returned alive, and accept the BS story of what happened to the dead ones (they were, in actuality, tortured and killed)

Israel, this time, picked option 1. I blame Hamas. 

Golda Meir said, “We can forgive them for killing our children. We can never forgive them for making us kill theirs”. 

They’re asking for a cease fire for humanitarian reasons. Know what would be better? If Hamas were gone. Then, everyone- Gazans and Israelis- would be better off. If Israel had gone in, not ceased fire, and taken Hamas out, everyone could be working towards a future right now. 
 
The best way to make life better for Gazans is to wipe out Hamas (and frankly, although not a death penalty proponent, I won’t shed any tears nor bow my head for any Hamas militants that participated in Oct 7, when they are put down, whether now or decades in the future). 
 
I know a lot of folks think it’s clever to accuse Israelis of genocide. They’re Jews, see, and the Nazis slaughtered six million of them (and it would have been more if they could have), so accusing them of genocide has a whiff of irony to some people (anti-Zionists, not anti-Semites, of course). It reeks of bullshit to me. There is one side in this war that has stated the intent to exterminate the other side, and a side that has the ability to exterminate the other side, and they’re not the same side. 

Edited by statsman
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22 minutes ago, statsman said:

Yes, even though 1,200 Israelis were massacred on Oct. 7, I can’t doubt that more Palestinian civilians have been killed by IDF. (I can doubt the numbers provided by Hamas, without doubting that more Palestinians are killed). That is a human tragedy, not a statistic. 
 
I blame Hamas. They shelter, intentionally, among civilians. They launch missiles from Gazan public health centers. They use the civilian populace as shields. If they could wrap their militants with Palestinian babies, instead of body armor, they would. 
 
Using such tactics, they present their opponents with choices:

1. Attack, and be internationally vilified (by anti-Zionist, of course; never anti-Semites) as baby-killers

2. Adopt tactics that rely heavily on boots on the ground, so as to minimize collateral damage to innocents. This puts the troops at greater risk (and Hamas and Fatah have shown that they treat captured IDF like the Comanche treated Rangers)

3. Just back off and go back to status quo. Trade a few thousand prisoners for the few dozen hostages returned alive, and accept the BS story of what happened to the dead ones (they were, in actuality, tortured and killed)

Israel, this time, picked option 1. I blame Hamas. 

Golda Meir said, “We can forgive them for killing our children. We can never forgive them for making us kill theirs”. 

They’re asking for a cease fire for humanitarian reasons. Know what would be better? If Hamas were gone. Then, everyone- Gazans and Israelis- would be better off. If Israel had gone in, not ceased fire, and taken Hamas out, everyone could be working towards a future right now. 
 
The best way to make life better for Gazans is to wipe out Hamas (and frankly, although not a death penalty proponent, I won’t shed any tears nor bow my head for any Hamas militants that participated in Oct 7, when they are put down, whether now or decades in the future). 
 
I know a lot of folks think it’s clever to accuse Israelis of genocide. They’re Jews, see, and the Nazis slaughtered six million of them (and it would have been more if they could have), so accusing them of genocide has a whiff of irony to some people (anti-Zionists, not anti-Semites, of course). It reeks of bullshit to me. There is one side in this war that has stated the intent to exterminate the other side, and a side that has the ability to exterminate the other side, and they’re not the same side. 

I don't know what makes you think I'm gonna read or respond to any of that considering how many times you have demonstrated yourself to be a completely unserious and willfully uninformed person with regard to this conflict. Like I said to sheeit, the first time you engage this topic or any other on this board will be the first.

Literally just the small snip Ana quoted demonstrates your lack of willingness to learn about this conflict, and your complete lack of seriousness.

Again, like I said to sheeit, fuck off.

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26 minutes ago, statsman said:

There is one side in this war that has stated the intent to exterminate the other side, and a side that has the ability to exterminate the other side, and they’re not the same side. 

Yeah....f you for making me agree with Ana on that point, but not only is there plenty of counter "from the river to the sea" rhetoric coming from the Israeli far right, that faction has functional control of the Israeli government and policy right now.  Like, people in positions of power have plainly spoken about taking the opportunity to wipe all non-jews out of the Levant.

It's a real problem when one side has to deal with a group that is genocidal and has an outsized voice in the policies and actions of their side.  It's a REAL BIG problem when both sides have that problem.  Each party here is being driven in large part by their worst factions.  That's, ummm.....really bad.

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Fine. So, we can agree? We can drop all the (more in sorrow than anger) “genocide” rhetoric, and call this what it is- a war between Israel and Hamas (and Fatah better be taking fucking notes)? And in that war, I’m rooting for a total loss by Hamas, the sooner the better. 

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3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Shocking that the Russian troll has no issue with ignoring laws governing the conduct of war.

Is that supposed to be me?

The things I post on Ukraine here, on Daily Texan, I also post on ON3. The same things.  Over there, I am considered a Ukrainian stooge. 

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1 minute ago, statsman said:

Is that supposed to be me?

The things I post on Ukraine here, on Daily Texan, I also post on ON3. The same things.  Over there, I am considered a Ukrainian stooge. 

Pretty sure he was referring to Boss Hogg, who is widely suspected of being GRhorn.

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On 1/30/2024 at 8:09 AM, InkaUtexas said:

Not a good look at all. I mean if they are locked up in a hospital, block their phones? Let them sit there and eat the crap food? Nah, lets dress up and go kill these three inside.

JENIN, West Bank (AP) — Israeli forces disguised as civilian women and medical workers stormed a hospital Tuesday in the occupied West Bank, killing three Palestinian militants in a dramatic raid that underscored how deadly violence has spilled into the territory from the war in Gaza.

The Palestinian Health Ministry said Israeli forces opened fire inside the wards of the Ibn Sina Hospital in the town of Jenin. The ministry condemned the raid and called on the international community to pressure Israel’s military to halt such operations in hospitals. A hospital spokesperson said there was no exchange of fire, indicating that it was a targeted killing.

The military said the militants were using the hospital as a hideout, without providing evidence. It alleged that one of those targeted in the raid had transferred weapons and ammunition to others for a planned attack, purportedly inspired by the Hamas assault on southern Israel on Oct. 7 that triggered the war in Gaza.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-01-30-2024-b1ba33c7c0c5c62f85932a20c2a0bc92

 

Is it possible for the military to not disclose evidence if they think it will impact their acquisition of other targets?   I imagine those methods might have a short shelf-life, and then release the information sometime in the future once the think its played out?  Or they could be full of shit.

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1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

Shocking that the Russian troll has no issue with ignoring laws governing the conduct of war.

Please.

Laws governing conduct of war sound great, but in an existential conflict between two sides you can expect those rules to be bent or disregarded as needed. As is, dressing up like doctors to gain access to targets doesn't strike me as a big gotcha.

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1 hour ago, statsman said:

Fine. So, we can agree? We can drop all the (more in sorrow than anger) “genocide” rhetoric, and call this what it is- a war between Israel and Hamas (and Fatah better be taking fucking notes)? And in that war, I’m rooting for a total loss by Hamas, the sooner the better. 

Yeah, mark me down as being against "wars of extermination."  I want Hamas to lose.....but I don't support a strategy by Israel of "level Gaza, force every arab from it, and never let them return," which is exactly the plan espoused by Bibi and the worst of his government (who seem to be winning the day in terms of strategy).  Go get Hamas.  Clean them out.  But no, I don't support ethnic cleansing.  I'm hoping that's not a controversial position, but I'm sure that my hope is in vain.

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Dressing up like doctors is bad because Israel doesn’t want their own actual medics to be targeted on the battlefield, and they will claim that Hamas violates LOAC when they do. When one side introduces the possibility that medics are actually combatants that puts all medics at risk. This isn’t hard. 

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16 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, mark me down as being against "wars of extermination."  I want Hamas to lose.....but I don't support a strategy by Israel of "level Gaza, force every arab from it, and never let them return," which is exactly the plan espoused by Bibi and the worst of his government (who seem to be winning the day in terms of strategy).  Go get Hamas.  Clean them out.  But no, I don't support ethnic cleansing.  I'm hoping that's not a controversial position, but I'm sure that my hope is in vain.

Which is why it doesn't bother me personally that they entered a hospital to take down those assholes because they use civilians as shields and particularly doesn't bother me because from what I've read no civilians were harmed in the raid.    I would prefer creative raids even if they bend the "rules of war" (whatever that is worth in a conflict like this) to indiscriminate bombing.

That being said - 956 raises a good point in the post above mine regarding that putting israeli medics at risk, although do we really think if Hamas has an opportunity to take out a jew they are going to give a shit it's a medic?  I think if a known Israeli of any gender, age or occupation in firing range of Hamas they are pretty much all at equal risk.

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58 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Which is why it doesn't bother me personally that they entered a hospital to take down those assholes because they use civilians as shields and particularly doesn't bother me because from what I've read no civilians were harmed in the raid.    I would prefer creative raids even if they bend the "rules of war" (whatever that is worth in a conflict like this) to indiscriminate bombing.

That being said - 956 raises a good point in the post above mine regarding that putting israeli medics at risk, although do we really think if Hamas has an opportunity to take out a jew they are going to give a shit it's a medic?  I think if a known Israeli of any gender, age or occupation in firing range of Hamas they are pretty much all at equal risk.

Big picture, I tend towards this perspective as well. I mean, if the baseline understanding we can all share is that Israel is committing war crimes/human rights violations in multiple parts of the occupied territories simultaneously, I think that the less worse outcome is that the war crimes have precise targeting and execution like what happened in Jenin, compared to the massive collective punishment exercise that has basically leveled most of Gaza and resulted in the death trending to the 10s of thousands of women and children.

Not a single fucking person would have a reasonable criticism if Mossad was executing surgical "operations" to decapitate Hamas leadership in Qatar. But that is not the strategy of these genocidal lunatics. Their strategy is to create a reality on the ground, distract a pliable west and esp counting on the US to run interference, while pushing the boulder as far as they can until it is untenable to proceed further. It is maybe even to their benefit to keep leadership in Qatar up and running. The game is to execute a plausibly deniable ethnic cleansing/genocide. In the quiet moments if you listen and pay attention to their thought process, described in their own words, they will tell you such. 

Ah fuck it, back up another C130 and load that bitch out to Tel Aviv. To their credit the Biden administration is now considering "slowing the arms transfers" to these genocidal lunatics. Which basically means maybe we choke it down from a water cannon to a fire hose. Maybe they will get around to actually making a decision to intervene. Meanwhile daily death rates are higher that all other recent conflicts by a multiple. 

 

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3 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Dressing up like doctors is bad because Israel doesn’t want their own actual medics to be targeted on the battlefield, and they will claim that Hamas violates LOAC when they do. When one side introduces the possibility that medics are actually combatants that puts all medics at risk. This isn’t hard. 

Yeah this is part of why doing shit like that is considered a war crime. Just increases the likelihood of medical support personnel on either side being targeted.

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2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

 

Not a single fucking person would have a reasonable criticism if Mossad was executing surgical "operations" to decapitate Hamas leadership in Qatar. But that is not the strategy of these genocidal lunatics.

 

That being said, I don't think there is a reality where they could have conducted surgical operations and successfully eliminated Hamas.  What Hamas did in October 100% deserved a massive initial response and there were inevitably going to be civilian casualties. It's war and Hamas (knowingly and intentionally) brought that shit on the people they govern.  Not just with the initial attack but with an entire strategy of forcing Israel to kill civilians if they want to kill Hamas.  Some of the rhetoric from far right in Israel is concerning and given where things stand it's certainly open to debate what the rest of this "war" should look like, but I have a hard time criticizing Israel taking hard measures against nutjobs whose stated goal in life is to kill every jew and who have openly stated they will do it again.  

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15 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Some of the rhetoric from far right in Israel is concerning and given where things stand it's certainly open to debate what the rest of this "war" should look like, but I have a hard time criticizing Israel taking hard measures against nutjobs whose stated goal in life is to kill every jew and who have openly stated they will do it again. 

“Concerning”? I mean that’s soft as shit. 
 

Even if your timeline started on Oct 7 it’s not hard to criticize. If you appreciate the broader context and timeline, you should have been critical long ago. ESP of our role in running interference. 

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1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

“Concerning”? I mean that’s soft as shit. 
 

Even if your timeline started on Oct 7 it’s not hard to criticize. If you appreciate the broader context and timeline, you should have been critical long ago. ESP of our role in running interference. 

I certainly have no desire to debate the history. I dug into it college and didn't have answers then and certainly don't have answers or strong opinions on that now.  But I'm absolutely not critical of the initial response.  What happened on 10/7 deserved a massive response in my view.  Obviously it would be great if Hamas and other Jihadi assholes had their military bases and operations separate from civilian housing and infrastructure but that's not who they are.  Civilian casualties were unavoidable.  It's intentional Hamas strategy to maximize civilian casualties to gather indirect support (i.e., opposition to Israel) just like we've seen in this thread every time I check in. 

If we want to discuss a point in time it was appropriate for Israel to scale back operations (or for the U.S. to scale back it's support), I'm certainly open to that discussion.  But the vast majority of posters that are overtly critical of Israel in this thread drew that line in the sand way back in October (and for most, absolutely based on how they viewed regional politics and the history pre 10/7). 

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Israel was careful to say they declared war on “Hamas”, rather than “Gaza”. That’s a nice sentiment, but I think it’s a distinction without a difference, in actuality. Hamas is so intertwined in Gazan society; it’s like saying you were declaring war on the Imperial Japanese Navy and Army, rather than Japan. Winning it is still going to pretty much destroy Japan. Israel is fighting a war and doesn’t seem compelled to honor the old status quo. 
 
 I think Iran is a big part of the impetus for October 7, and they shouldn’t get away with it (but they might). 
 
Israel may very well have decided “To hell with two states. We’re getting rid of Hamas, and if it ruins Gaza, spills into the West Bank, well, … we’ll deal with what’s left when Hamas is gone”. In other words, Hamas may have changed the dispute from “one state vs. two state solution” to “throw down and there’ll be no permanent refugee camps set up when it’s over”. 
 
Again, and I know you hate me repeating myself, but I will whenever Israel is blamed for the loss of thousands of civilian lives (per Hamas’ count)- I blame the loss of civilian life on Hamas, for starting this. 
 
I don’t feel compelled to write my congressman about US support, but I understand if you do. 

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