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Dallas Cowboys 2019 Season Thread -- Aaaah Zeke Out?

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For some crazy reason Connor Williams playing guard looks like an undersized athletic tackle trying to play guard. 

Kind of like when La'el Collins was played at guard and looked like shit before getting injured after only 3 games. 

They should have just moved Williams to swing tackle in camp and admitted they fucked up taking a tackle in the 2nd round because they didn't anticipate resigning Collins. 

Edited by Junior Miller

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@Drew

I don’t know what “football guys” you’re listening to lol but if they’re an employee or the Dallas cowboys you have to understand that politics are in play right now. 2nd rd pick vs guy we picked up off the street. I’m not necessarily saying that you’re wrong, but I’ve never seen XSF make the glaring mistakes that Connor has. He’s clearly stronger, and I want my guard to be able to get a push. And I don’t care what the practice reports say. Do it in a games. I know what I’ve seen from Connor in games, and it’s below average (outside of the rams game last year, which looks like an anomaly at this point)

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Not necessarily.  There have absolutely been several throws that he was really lucky weren't picked.  Your stats just show a total number of throws that fall into that category.  It doesn't account for the "when they're bad, they're REALLY bad" factor.  I think that's what [mention=430]futureman[/mention] was getting at.  And I agree with him.  There's "that was an ill-advised throw, he's probably lucky it wasn't picked" and then there's "holy shit what a horrible fucking throw, how the fuck did that not get picked, that lucky mother fucker" and Dak has had a lot of the latter.
I don't think there are stats that differentiate between the two (or I'm missing it if there are), but there is definitely a difference.  I know it's mostly a bit for [mention=430]futureman[/mention], but there is no doubt Dak is one of those weird anomaly QBs whose numbers on paper don't always match up with the old eye test on the field.
I guess that's the reason for the phrase "stats can be misleading".
You can stick with the "stats are for losers" camp, but if you don't mind I'll rely on empirical data.

Here's 2018 adjusted interceptions data which factors in the type of passes you're describing. Dak was 8th in the league in adjusted interceptions rate.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/adjusted-interceptions-20187cbc3d324f5166259e4b70fb8ca7c457.jpg

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15 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

You can stick with the "stats are for losers" camp, but if you don't mind I'll rely on empirical data.

Here's 2018 adjusted interceptions data which factors in the type of passes you're describing. Dak was 8th in the league in adjusted interceptions rate.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2019/adjusted-interceptions-20187cbc3d324f5166259e4b70fb8ca7c457.jpg

Never said stats are for losers.  I love stats.  I probably refer to them as much as anyone on this site when I'm in a football argument discussion.  But, they don't always tell the whole story.  Plus your numbers are from last year.  I'm talking about this year.  Particularly in the games we lost.  There were some head-scratcher throws for sure.  Maybe that's normal for every QB in the league?  I don't know, I don't watch much NFL outside the Cowboys.

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6 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

Never said stats are for losers.  I love stats.  I probably refer to them as much as anyone on this site when I'm in a football argument discussion.  But, they don't always tell the whole story.  Plus your numbers are from last year.  I'm talking about this year.  Particularly in the games we lost.  There were some head-scratcher throws for sure.  Maybe that's normal for every QB in the league?  I don't know, I don't watch much NFL outside the Cowboys.

Have you accounted for the scenarios that the offense has been in re:the losses?    Behind, gotta catch up, be aggressive, et al.    

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As far as I can tell football outsiders evaluates this stat after the season is over. I think his rate will increase in this area compared to last year due to the obvious change in making riskier throws this season.  However given the fact that his numbers in other areas that tend to track with adjusted ints (ie expected completion % vs actual completion %) I doubt he'll fall outside the top 12. Dak is straight up slinging the ball around this year,  and he is performing far beyond what I thought he was capable of. Unfortunately with our risk averse HC and extremely overrated defense it will probably all go to waste.  

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3 minutes ago, Blanton said:

Not tall/athletic enough to be an NFL tackle

Well he doesn’t appear to be strong enough to be an NFL guard. I think he could be an adequate to good NFL right tackle. Not ideal size but I think he has enough athleticism to pull that off. He had enough to be an excellent left tackle in college.

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3 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Well he doesn’t appear to be strong enough to be an NFL guard. I think he could be an adequate to good NFL right tackle. Not ideal size but I think he has enough athleticism to pull that off. He had enough to be an excellent left tackle in college.

He cashed in on a really good season and good on him for doing so. 

Had Connor played longer in college, he would've probably had a less than stellar sample size for NFL GM's to evaluate him on. 

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2 hours ago, Blanton said:

Not tall/athletic enough to be an NFL tackle

He's very athletic and definitely athletic enough to be in NFL tackle. 

Is he long enough to be an NFL left tackle for a right-handed quarterback? There's definitely doubt there

His most likely position to succeed is right tackle. He's definitely athletic enough and he has enough size if he really works at it to be a good NFL right tackle. Especially if he got into a zone scheme where he can utilize that quickness moreso than a power blocking scheme

Edited by Junior Miller

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16 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

He's very athletic and definitely athletic enough to be in NFL tackle. 

Is he long enough to be an NFL left tackle for a right-handed quarterback? There's definitely doubt there

His most likely position to succeed is right tackle. He's definitely athletic enough and he has enough size if he really works at it to be a good NFL right tackle. Especially if he got into a zone scheme where he can utilize that quickness moreso than a power blocking scheme

Take of the orange-tinted shades, brother. 

He's been getting his ass handed to him pretty regularly since entering the NFL. He cashed in on a stellar college season, which is great, but he is not good enough to be a tackle in the NFL. 

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5 minutes ago, Blanton said:

Take of the orange-tinted shades, brother. 

He's been getting his ass handed to him pretty regularly since entering the NFL. He cashed in on a stellar college season, which is great, but he is not good enough to be a tackle in the NFL. 

Once again he's playing a position he isn't physically able to play and in a blocking scheme that isn't the best fit for his abilities. 

Put Amare Cooper at fullback and see how great he looks.  Put Frederick at left tackle and he'd be a disaster. Put Tyron at center and he'd be horrible. Playing the position you fit matters. He was worth a look as a RT but incredibly stupid to draft as a guard. 

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4 minutes ago, Junior Miller said:

Once again he's playing a position he isn't physically able to play and in a blocking scheme that isn't the best fit for his abilities. 

Put Amare Cooper at fullback and see how great he looks.  Put Frederick at left tackle and he'd be a disaster. Put Tyron at center and he'd be horrible. Playing the position you fit matters. He was worth a look as a RT but incredibly stupid to draft as a guard. 

Fair enough. 

I'm gonna go

Edited by Blanton

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19 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Watching the replay it's clear as day that Connor was supposed to engage on the double team way more than he did. As @gsoda3 said time has to pass before Connor moves on to block the LB to avoid a potential penalty on a pass.  

correct on the RPO also the responsibility for Connor is to control the DL in the double first enough for Frederick to take control before attempting to get to the 2nd level.  I'm not sure where the DL lined up.  was he head up on Frederick or shaded to Connor?

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7 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

@Drew

I don’t know what “football guys” you’re listening to lol but if they’re an employee or the Dallas cowboys you have to understand that politics are in play right now. 2nd rd pick vs guy we picked up off the street. I’m not necessarily saying that you’re wrong, but I’ve never seen XSF make the glaring mistakes that Connor has. He’s clearly stronger, and I want my guard to be able to get a push. And I don’t care what the practice reports say. Do it in a games. I know what I’ve seen from Connor in games, and it’s below average (outside of the rams game last year, which looks like an anomaly at this point)

XSF rated out worse than Connor last year by PFF and Connor's gotten better since.  There's no doubt CW is the weakest link on the OL (although Frederick is probably 2nd now which is a shame), but it's revisionist history to think XSF is some sort of under appreciated stalwart.  He should be an okay next man up, but....

 

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Some plays from the all 22 from Sunday.  There's a lot going on in this play.  From Jaylon having no clue what's going on in this play and then taking a terrible angle, to Dlaw showing unbelievable hustle.  The is the all 21. 

Our LB play is abysmal this year.  Lee has easily been our best guy.

To wit... both guys miss the tackle here.  LVE first.

 

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On this plays why is the DL lined up so wonky with gaps vacated? The LBs have either one of the guards or the center (or both) running free at them. What LB would look good playing the run with free interior linemen teeing them up? 

That looks like horribly bad gap management by the DL

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1 hour ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I was afraid of our defense regressing for a number of different reasons. Our LB play (outside of injuries) was literally the last thing I would’ve guessed. 

I kind of figured that our LB core would be a strength.  I hope in the off season, unless against all odds they lift the Lombardi Trophy, that here is a complete cleansing of the coaching staff.  I want zero holdovers down to the fucking training staff.  I do not want a single person infected with Jerry Jones disease to be on the staff.  Maybe they can catch magic in a bottle for one year before JJ's disease infects them too.

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From the perspective of a Vikings DE. Laughing at how much of a joke we are. This was after the dumb ass run play calls when we had 2nd and 2 and looking to win the game.

“After the play, [Frederick] was like, ‘What are we doing here!? Why are you running this!?’” Odenigbo said with a laugh. “And I’m just celebrating. And saying, ‘Ha, ha.’ And he’s just yelling, ‘Why are we doing this!?’ Ah man, it was just a great feeling.”

http://m.startribune.com/even-without-linval-joseph-vikings-run-defense-will-be-major-test-for-broncos/564875462/

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Still, for all our complaints, winning this lousy division is still doable.

If we draw the Lions without Stafford, that should be a win. Balance that with a loss to the Patriots and we're 6-5. We still have another game with the Deadskins, so call it 7-5. That leaves four games that decide our fate: Buffalo, @ Chicago, the Rams and @ Philly. Going 3-1 gets us to 10-6 and probably wins the division. Going 2-2 gets us to 9-7 and could still win the division.

It's not how we wanted this to work, but a playoff game or two is still a possibility.

 

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3 minutes ago, Tired Horn said:

Still, for all our complaints, winning this lousy division is still doable.

If we draw the Lions without Stafford, that should be a win. Balance that with a loss to the Patriots and we're 6-5. We still have another game with the Deadskins, so call it 7-5. That leaves four games that decide our fate: Buffalo, @ Chicago, the Rams and @ Philly. Going 3-1 gets us to 10-6 and probably wins the division. Going 2-2 gets us to 9-7 and could still win the division.

It's not how we wanted this to work, but a playoff game or two is still a possibility.

 

Have you learned nothing over the last 20 years?

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22 minutes ago, Tired Horn said:

Still, for all our complaints, winning this lousy division is still doable.

If we draw the Lions without Stafford, that should be a win. Balance that with a loss to the Patriots and we're 6-5. We still have another game with the Deadskins, so call it 7-5. That leaves four games that decide our fate: Buffalo, @ Chicago, the Rams and @ Philly. Going 3-1 gets us to 10-6 and probably wins the division. Going 2-2 gets us to 9-7 and could still win the division.

It's not how we wanted this to work, but a playoff game or two is still a possibility.

 

Who gives a shit if the division is still doable. Obviously I’m going to get baited into buying in it we make the postseason, but even if we do, who gives a shit. This team is one and done if they face Seattle/SF, and even if they get matched up with Minnesota and get them back, do you really expect this team to go to NO, GB, or Seattle/SF and win another playoff game? Of course not. 
 

It would almost be better longterm if we just collapsed down the stretch, so we can clean house. I bet Garrett comes back if we win the division, even if we’re one and done. 

Edited by youdunnf'dup

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1 minute ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Who gives a shit if the division is still doable. Obviously I’m going to get baited into buying in it we make the postseason, but even if we do, who gives a shit. This team is one and done if they face Seattle/SF, and even if they get matched up with Minnesota and get them back, do you really expect this team to go to NO, GB, or Seattle/SF and win another playoff game? Of course not. 

I didn't call it a great accomplishment or something to "buy into" with enthusiasm. I called our division lousy and noted that even winning the division at this point isn't going to be the kind of season fans wanted. Just gaming out the schedule and noting that a playoff appearance is still possible. If so, a wildcard game win is probably the upside limit.

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40 minutes ago, Tired Horn said:

Still, for all our complaints, winning this lousy division is still doable.

If we draw the Lions without Stafford, that should be a win. Balance that with a loss to the Patriots and we're 6-5. We still have another game with the Deadskins, so call it 7-5. That leaves four games that decide our fate: Buffalo, @ Chicago, the Rams and @ Philly. Going 3-1 gets us to 10-6 and probably wins the division. Going 2-2 gets us to 9-7 and could still win the division.

It's not how we wanted this to work, but a playoff game or two is still a possibility.

 

Winning a shit ass division means little. This year was actually doing something. All the pieces were in place. No excuses at all. Every single team worth a damn we have gotten down big and looked like shit to start and lost. Our best win is an average at best Eagles team. We have shown so far we can't do shit against the good teams.

Our ceiling still is winning a wild card game and that's it. Capturing that Vikings win would have went a long way to show we have recovered from that 3 game losing streak and back on track. But in Cowboys fashion, we fuck it up. Garrett is done here. He will be fired after this year and so will Rod. Both are fucking horrible.

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Winning the division is going to be a lot harder than you think. They're tied right now and if you compare schedules the eagles have

Patriots home

Seahawks home

Then

Dolphins

Giants twice

Redskins

Cowboys

Let's say they split the next two at home. That puts them at 6-5 with 5 very winnable games left. They probably don't lose to dolphins Giants or Redskins so even if they lose the cowboys game that's a 10-6 record. 

Cowboys have 

Lions home

Patriots road

Then 

Bills 

Bears

Rams

Eagles

Redskins

Let's say they split the next two to go 6-5. That means they still need to win 4 of the last 5 including having to beat the eagles again on the road just to hope to match the eagles at 10-6. 

After seeing how horribly coached this team is how likely are they to run through the Lions, Patriots, bills, bears on road in winter, and Rams only losing 2 max? While also having to beat eagles on road? 

This Lions game is must win and even then if eagles manage to bear both the pats and Seahawks at home it's over. 

Edited by Junior Miller

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52 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

 

My god that’s terrible. LBs would have a better chance if they just collapsed in a ball. At least Cook might have had to alter his path. 

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On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 12:28 AM, Patrick Bateman said:

XSF rated out worse than Connor last year by PFF and Connor's gotten better since.  There's no doubt CW is the weakest link on the OL (although Frederick is probably 2nd now which is a shame), but it's revisionist history to think XSF is some sort of under appreciated stalwart.  He should be an okay next man up, but....

 

This.  I think guys just see the Connor is the worst OL on the Cowboys, and think that means he's the worst OG in the league(much like people think Heath is the worst Safety in the league, when he's probably no worst than middle of the pack towards bottom 3rd)

People seem to think XSF was good last year when he was only good for a couple of games then regressed while Connor got better.

7 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

From the perspective of a Vikings DE. Laughing at how much of a joke we are. This was after the dumb ass run play calls when we had 2nd and 2 and looking to win the game.

“After the play, [Frederick] was like, ‘What are we doing here!? Why are you running this!?’” Odenigbo said with a laugh. “And I’m just celebrating. And saying, ‘Ha, ha.’ And he’s just yelling, ‘Why are we doing this!?’ Ah man, it was just a great feeling.”

http://m.startribune.com/even-without-linval-joseph-vikings-run-defense-will-be-major-test-for-broncos/564875462/

Even the fucking players know what a god damn joke that series of plays was.

3 hours ago, Tired Horn said:

Still, for all our complaints, winning this lousy division is still doable.

If we draw the Lions without Stafford, that should be a win. Balance that with a loss to the Patriots and we're 6-5. We still have another game with the Deadskins, so call it 7-5. That leaves four games that decide our fate: Buffalo, @ Chicago, the Rams and @ Philly. Going 3-1 gets us to 10-6 and probably wins the division. Going 2-2 gets us to 9-7 and could still win the division.

It's not how we wanted this to work, but a playoff game or two is still a possibility.

 

Yep. But like others have said, that's not what this year is about.

Personally I would LOVE to win the division and be the first back to back East winner in like 15 years or so...because I know they'll get bounced early(wouldn't even be favored at home in the Wild Card IMO), and that still means Garrett is gone.

Plus that means the fucking Eagles are sitting at home.

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3 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

Winning the division is going to be a lot harder than you think. They're tied right now and if you compare schedules the eagles have

Patriots home

Seahawks home

Then

Dolphins

Giants twice

Redskins

Cowboys

Let's say they split the next two at home. That puts them at 6-5 with 5 very winnable games left. They probably don't lose to dolphins Giants or Redskins so even if they lose the cowboys game that's a 10-6 record. 

Cowboys have 

Lions home

Patriots road

Then 

Bills 

Bears

Rams

Eagles

Redskins

Let's say they split the next two to go 6-5. That means they still need to win 4 of the last 5 including having to beat the eagles again on the road just to hope to match the eagles at 10-6. 

After seeing how horribly coached this team is how likely are they to run through the Lions, Patriots, bills, bears on road in winter, and Rams only losing 2 max? While also having to beat eagles on road? 

This Lions game is must win and even then if eagles manage to bear both the pats and Seahawks at home it's over. 

I understand your logic, but I don't have any more faith in the Eagles than most people have in the Cowboys. The Eagles so far look to have a few more significant flaws than we do. SO they can blow winnable games, too.

I would agree, however, that the Lions are a must win. The Lions aren't that good even with Stafford. Lose that one and we're sure as hell not going 5-1 the rest of the way.

Edited by Tired Horn
Correct error.

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Whomever wins the East this year will be a quick out. Unless one of them can make a run like the Giants did. But I seriously doubt it. Hell even the wild card teams we would face would be better than us. The NFC is fucking deep this year.

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3 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Whomever wins the East this year will be a quick out. Unless one of them can make a run like the Giants did. But I seriously doubt it. Hell even the wild card teams we would face would be better than us. The NFC is fucking deep this year.

*whoever

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4 hours ago, Tired Horn said:

I understand your logic, but I don't have any more faith in the Eagles than most people have in the Cowboys. The Eagles so far look to have a few more significant flaws than we do. SO they can blow winnable games, too.

I would agree, however, that the Lions are a must win. The Lions aren't that good even with Stafford. Lose that one and we're sure as hell not going 5-1 the rest of the way.

I have a feeling Orlando scandrick and his rant on undisputed might have galvanized that locker room and woke them up a little bit. We’re probably going to have to go 5-2 down the stretch to win the division. Both teams are probably going to lose to the pats, and they have the Seahawks at home. I don’t know what would happen if we split with them and we both end up at 10-6 or 9-7. I forget what the next tiebreaker is. Again though, it don’t make a shit. I just have a funny feeling that Garrett will be back if we sneak into the playoffs. 

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