Jump to content
CBHorn

Corona spread prevention limit?

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

As more and more states increase efforts to stop the spread of COVID-19 and the restrictions on citizens and business get more strict, a question comes to mind.  These restrictions are already causing massive damage to the economy.  People are losing jobs. Small businesses face difficult times.  Retirement accounts are getting hammered.  Personal liberty has been severely restricted.

 

Is there a limit to how for we are willing to go?  Is there any point where the damage to society as a whole is greater than the damage of allowing the disease to spread?  If so, what do you those limits look like?

 

I'm not trying to say we shouldn't do anything.  This is obvious unprecedented territory.  But, I do think we need to consider all the ramifications of the preventative actions. 

Edited by CBHorn
typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The economic and public health fallout would be far worse and go on much longer if we sit around and let this thing spread. Near term pain is worth it - the economy can't stand on it's own if the virus continues to spread and the health care system is overwhelmed. Not to mention the loss of life 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

The economic and public health fallout would be far worse and go on much longer if we sit around and let this thing spread. Near term pain is worth it - the economy can't stand on it's own if the virus continues to spread and the health care system is overwhelmed. Not to mention the loss of life 

 

Is your viewpoint that any measure is acceptable?  Anything you wouldn't agree to?  What if these drastic measures aren't enough and the healthcare system is overwhelmed anyways?

Edited by CBHorn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, CBHorn said:

 

Is your viewpoint that any measure is acceptable?  Anything you wouldn't agree to?  What if these drastic measures are enough and the healthcare system is overwhelmed anyways?

Italy has already provided the case study as to what happens if you hold your nuts. They are proper fucked 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My son's friend is marooned in Finland until he can put together connecting flights which are always being canceled.  He is in a little town near Helinski, population about 9,000.  They have had ten people test positive for coronavirus.  Their response:  If you are sick, don't go to work and go to a doctor to get tested.  If you get real sick, we'll put you in a hospital.  That's it. 

As of this morning, ZERO deaths in Finland due to the coronavirus. 

It isn't the Indian waving the blanket that killed all of the buffalo.  It was the herd mentality and blind panic that sent them over the cliff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Cornfusion said:

My son's friend is marooned in Finland until he can put together connecting flights which are always being canceled.  He is in a little town near Helinski, population about 9,000.  They have had ten people test positive for coronavirus.  Their response:  If you are sick, don't go to work and go to a doctor to get tested.  If you get real sick, we'll put you in a hospital.  That's it. 

As of this morning, ZERO deaths in Finland due to the coronavirus. 

It isn't the Indian waving the blanket that killed all of the buffalo.  It was the herd mentality and blind panic that sent them over the cliff.

Blind panic caused hospitals to run out of ventilators in Italy? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Cornfusion said:

My son's friend is marooned in Finland until he can put together connecting flights which are always being canceled.  He is in a little town near Helinski, population about 9,000.  They have had ten people test positive for coronavirus.  Their response:  If you are sick, don't go to work and go to a doctor to get tested.  If you get real sick, we'll put you in a hospital.  That's it. 

As of this morning, ZERO deaths in Finland due to the coronavirus. 

It isn't the Indian waving the blanket that killed all of the buffalo.  It was the herd mentality and blind panic that sent them over the cliff.

 

"The Finnish government suddenly woke up last Monday and implemented severe measures against the spread of Covid-19. Schools and borders are closed, all non-essential gatherings of more than ten people are forbidden, and the elderly and chronically ill were put in a high level of isolation. Most importantly, after a period of losing count, testing is to be ramped up.'

https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/columns/columns/viewpoint/17457-here-is-how-finland-can-come-out-of-the-shut-down-very-fast.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Blind panic caused hospitals to run out of ventilators in Italy?

Blind panic caused the schools to be closed when there appears to be a zero mortality rate in the 0-29 age groups.  Here in my town, they let the kids come eat breakfast and lunch in the cafeterias, but no classes.  Does that make sense to you?

As far as 90 year old chain smoking Italians, ventilators weren't going to keep them alive forever.

Look, you be as afraid as you want to be.  Nobody is going to talk you out of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Cornfusion said:

Blind panic caused the schools to be closed when there appears to be a zero mortality rate in the 0-29 age groups.  Here in my town, they let the kids come eat breakfast and lunch in the cafeterias, but no classes.  Does that make sense to you?

As far as 90 year old chain smoking Italians, ventilators weren't going to keep them alive forever.

Look, you be as afraid as you want to be.  Nobody is going to talk you out of it.

Yes.  They are trying to minimize contact as much as possible but have to weigh that against children starving to death because school meals are the only food they get.  Many schools aren't setup to do delivery and many kids don't have a safe place to eat other than at school.  Children might have a low mortality - but its not the children they are so worried about - it is all of the other people those children have infected.  Its the reason that your example of sane decision making (Finland) closed down all the schools, closed the borders, and is now testing everyone.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

"The Finnish government suddenly woke up last Monday and implemented severe measures against the spread of Covid-19

Here is what the kid said:  "There's ten cases confirmed her in Rovaniemi and not everything is shut down.  There's less panic here than there is there (United States) it sounds to me.  They're also not testing nearly as much as they were before..."

But if it's printed in the newspaper, it's got to be true...right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Cornfusion said:

Here is what the kid said:  "There's ten cases confirmed her in Rovaniemi and not everything is shut down.  There's less panic here than there is there (United States) it sounds to me.  They're also not testing nearly as much as they were before..."

But if it's printed in the newspaper, it's got to be true...right?

As opposed to...  your kid?  Yeah - I'm going with the newspaper.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
Quote

Yes.  They are trying to minimize contact as much as possible but have to weigh that against children starving to death because school meals are the only food they get

I'm sorry, I didn't know you had ever visited my town to know all of this.  Tell me, when did the Columbus Food Pantry and Columbus Rescue Mission close down?  Because the latter was still open last night when I went there to help out.  Should we arrest all of the parents here in Platte County who are letting their kids starve?  

Last words are yours.  Try not to be silly.

Edited by Cornfusion
forgot phrase

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 3/18/2020 at 9:02 PM, 6th Street said:

The economic and public health fallout would be far worse and go on much longer if we sit around and let this thing spread. Near term pain is worth it - the economy can't stand on it's own if the virus continues to spread and the health care system is overwhelmed. Not to mention the loss of life 

I don't think that people really appreciate what a completely overwhelmed health care system, in the context of a highly contagious novel respiratory infection soaking up the the acute care capacity, would look like in this country.  If the measures we are taking do not bend the curve, they are about to get a big taste of it.  

Edited by Anastasis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Locking down this country will be much more complicated due to the 300 million guns on the street. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Locking down this country will be much more complicated due to the 300 million guns on the street. 

I think that it makes it much easier. 

I also think that we should have open season to shoot people who break a quarantine without compelling cause, so maybe we are approaching this from different perspectives. :)

Edited by Anastasis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like how people say that it’s overly paranoid and stupid to predict this virus could kill millions and overwhelm the healthcare system, then turn right around and claim that shutting down the country for a month will cause irreversible economic damage and total anarchy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Cornfusion said:

My son's friend is marooned in Finland until he can put together connecting flights which are always being canceled.  He is in a little town near Helinski, population about 9,000.  They have had ten people test positive for coronavirus.  Their response:  If you are sick, don't go to work and go to a doctor to get tested.  If you get real sick, we'll put you in a hospital.  That's it. 

As of this morning, ZERO deaths in Finland due to the coronavirus. 

It isn't the Indian waving the blanket that killed all of the buffalo.  It was the herd mentality and blind panic that sent them over the cliff.

Congratulations for comparing fucking Finland to the United States. Man this whole thing has had some absolute morons come out of the woodwork on this site. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Cornfusion said:

I'm sorry, I didn't know you had ever visited my town to know all of this.  Tell me, when did the Columbus Food Pantry and Columbus Rescue Mission close down?  Because the latter was still open last night when I went there to help out.  Should we arrest all of the parents here in Platte County who are letting their kids starve?  

Last words are yours.  Try not to be silly.

I worked for a decade in the Chicago Public School system.  CPS doesn't close down schools unless they absolutely have to - and even when they do close the schools down, the kitchens stay open because a size-able portion of the student population relies on breakfast and lunch at school as their only meals of the day. 

Chicago has a shit ton of shelters, food banks and charitable organizations that provide food & clothing to any who want it - and yet way too many students go to school hungry and in clothes that should have been thrown away.  

I wasn't being hyperbolic when I said that schools were keeping children from starving.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Hiphopopotamos said:

I wasn't being hyperbolic when I said that schools were keeping children from starving.

In 2020 in the United States of America.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

I wasn't being hyperbolic when I said that schools were keeping children from starving.

Schools in my district will start running car pick up lines for free meals this monday. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Cornfusion said:

My son's friend is marooned in Finland until he can put together connecting flights which are always being canceled.  He is in a little town near Helinski, population about 9,000.  They have had ten people test positive for coronavirus.  Their response:  If you are sick, don't go to work and go to a doctor to get tested.  If you get real sick, we'll put you in a hospital.  That's it. 

As of this morning, ZERO deaths in Finland due to the coronavirus. 

It isn't the Indian waving the blanket that killed all of the buffalo.  It was the herd mentality and blind panic that sent them over the cliff.

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/thl_director_number_of_corona_cases_in_finland_may_be_20-30_times_higher_than_official_count/11259388

 

By 20 March, approximately 450 laboratory-confirmed cases of novel coronavirus (COVID-19) have been diagnosed in Finland. This figure is based on laboratory-confirmed figures collected manually by THL directly from the hospital districts.

https://thl.fi/en/web/infectious-diseases/what-s-new/coronavirus-covid-19-latest-updates

Edited by tantric superman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cornfusion said:

Blind panic caused the schools to be closed when there appears to be a zero mortality rate in the 0-29 age groups.

it's only a matter of time (might've already happened) until we start hearing about 8 year old kids who inadvertently murdered their grandparents because they were still at school and were passing this shit around yet showed no symptoms.

the issue we can't seem to wrap our collective head around is that the young, while far less likely to get seriously ill, are far more likely to spread the virus, because they're out and about and in close proximity to others.  we are trained in our heads to assume the sickest are the most contagious, so we're having to relearn how some of this shit works.

going on lockdown, limiting all interaction with others, blanket testing - that's how you flatten the curve and allow the hospitals to do what hospitals do.

there's a difference between blind panic and justified panic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally think it's just math. Once the ventilators/pulmonary assistants>serious covid19 cases then we will rapidly get back to normal.

I think everyone would be a whole lot better off if we just focused attention on that.  Any "fear" should just be inducing guilt about not socially distancing oneself in order to avoid a longer period of serious covid19 cases>ventilators/pulmonary assistants.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I think that it makes it much easier. 

I also think that we should have open season to shoot people who break a quarantine without compelling cause, so maybe we are approaching this from different perspectives. :)

This seems to be the main point a lot of people are missing and the "this is an overreaction" crowd never seems to address it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Cornfusion said:

My son's friend is marooned in Finland until he can put together connecting flights which are always being canceled.  He is in a little town near Helinski, population about 9,000.  They have had ten people test positive for coronavirus.  Their response:  If you are sick, don't go to work and go to a doctor to get tested.  If you get real sick, we'll put you in a hospital.  That's it. 

As of this morning, ZERO deaths in Finland due to the coronavirus. 

It isn't the Indian waving the blanket that killed all of the buffalo.  It was the herd mentality and blind panic that sent them over the cliff.

That's right everybody, people panicking about toilet paper is what makes the disease more lethal in the elderly and immuno-compromised. If only we all calmed down, they'd live!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Cornfusion said:

Blind panic caused the schools to be closed when there appears to be a zero mortality rate in the 0-29 age groups.  Here in my town, they let the kids come eat breakfast and lunch in the cafeterias, but no classes.  Does that make sense to you?

As far as 90 year old chain smoking Italians, ventilators weren't going to keep them alive forever.

Look, you be as afraid as you want to be.  Nobody is going to talk you out of it.

LOL, you're clueless...but that's ok, you're not on the front lines trying to save a few hundred thousand lives.  Stay safe, friend. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The mother of my children is working in an ICU of a major urban hospital with active COVID-19 patients. They are rationing PPE because of shortages. Because of that shortage, she had to consult with a patient without PPE yesterday. Today, that patient is suspected of having COVID-19. Patient wasn't tested until today because the hospital does not have enough tests.

We have not done enough to protect those on the frontline. 

The war goes on for those in harm's way. When they are sidelined or worse, you will get your wish.

For now - do your part to help those fighting the war for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, but there is going to be a limit to this, and I think it is 4-5 weeks more.  I think if things are not allowed to start returning to normal by May 1, then we will see significant civic disobedience.  

The Federal and state governments fucked the pooch on this and did not use the 6 weeks prior to last weekend to prepare.  So we all have to make sacrifices and give them 4-6 more weeks to get their shit together.  

There should be DESIGNATED hospitals that COVID patients or those suspected of having it are taken to.  They should NOT be going to ALL of them.  Testing should be off site and there is no fucking way it should take 4-5 days to get a damned result.  24 hours AT MOST.  

And fuck all the poltiicians playing politics during this.  Your ineptitude and the Chinese fucking government have completely fucked up a lot of our lives.  Fucking do your jobs and FIX it, or get the fuck out the way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There IS a point where our society would need to just let people die, but there's NO way we can managed the quarantine level to just barely stay below that and minimize the economic damage. There is a high likelihood we'd miss that target and we need to quarantine real hard and take that "risk" instead.

I agree with the point made above about civil disobedience after a period of quarantine, and I think we wouldn't last until May. Four weeks tops.

So MAYBE we can lock down 3 weeks and infection rates will be low enough we can just keep unnecessary events banned and use social distancing. Maybe at that point the health care system will be able to handle the girth?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a inovative idea -

This will not work with my Great Dane (Marmaduke), & my Maine Coon (Heathcliff), could care less of going outside...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Yes, but there is going to be a limit to this, and I think it is 4-5 weeks more.  I think if things are not allowed to start returning to normal by May 1, then we will see significant civic disobedience.  

The Federal and state governments fucked the pooch on this and did not use the 6 weeks prior to last weekend to prepare.  So we all have to make sacrifices and give them 4-6 more weeks to get their shit together.  

There should be DESIGNATED hospitals that COVID patients or those suspected of having it are taken to.  They should NOT be going to ALL of them.  Testing should be off site and there is no fucking way it should take 4-5 days to get a damned result.  24 hours AT MOST.  

And fuck all the poltiicians playing politics during this.  Your ineptitude and the Chinese fucking government have completely fucked up a lot of our lives.  Fucking do your jobs and FIX it, or get the fuck out the way.

I think that short of there being absolutely no food, we’ll never see widespread civil disobedience in this country. We’ve gotten too fat and lazy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Helobious said:

I think that short of there being absolutely no food, we’ll never see widespread civil disobedience in this country. We’ve gotten too fat and lazy.

Maybe not in the valley, but people in the big cities are beyond pissed off, especially those whose businesses have been completely shut and are facing financial ruin.

Edited by PenelopeWitherspoon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Cornfusion said:

But if it's printed in the newspaper, it's got to be true...right?

good lord, you..should probably just stop right there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Maybe not in the valley, but people in the big cities are beyond pissed off, especially those whose businesses have been completely shut and are facing financial ruin.

i don't see what you're seeing. not in nyc or at least not in the areas i've been around.  they might be pissed off but they can't force people/customers to just appear. You've posted 4-5 weeks on a few threads, not hating, just not seeing the actual rationale for that.   I don't know when things will slowly start opening up again but once the cases pile up, the timeline will be pushed back. IMO it is too early to put a guess on the date things open up if we haven't even gotten anywhere near peak infections. Everything is delayed 10-14 days on that so any date predictions are just too early at the moment. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

mpu


Football ... Basketball ... Baseball ... Other Sports ... Recruiting ... Gambling ... Movies & TV ... Music ... Hobbies ... Lulz ... Food & Travel ... Daily Texan ... Help ... For Sale ... Politics ... Board Discussion
×
×
  • Create New...