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Patrick Bateman

2020 Presidential Election -- Biden v Trump: Sleepy Joe vs Dopey Don

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3 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Dems are enthusiastic to vote trump out and get someone competent in the office.  That’s enthusiasm enough.  I will give you that people aren’t throwing parties and celebrating at the thought of Biden, but I will explain that people are enthusiastic to get this current shitstain of a president out of the White House, and that’s all the enthusiasm you need for this type of election. 

Right, that's pretty much what I said. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Pancho said:

This really wasn’t a bad speech by Biden.  I was prepared for worse. 

Agree with this.  The only criticism I have is he acted like all this Russia stuff is new.  You’d never know Trump was impeached listening to Biden.  You’d never know about the brutally cruel family separation policy. You’d never know about him bowing down to Putin in Helsinki on national television.  You’d never know how Trump left the Kurds to get slaughtered by Turkey.  Trump has been a never ending horror show but Biden seems to have a short memory. 

It’s like the first three years never happened.

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15 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Enthusiasm in Biden vs hatred for trump. I don't get the impression from the Democrats I know personally (as well as what's posted on this board) that they particularly like Biden all that much but hate trump with a passion. 

Turnout was setting records in some states for the democratic primaries this time.

people would literally crawl over broken glass to get the orange fuck face out of office.

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12 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Just making an observation as someone who doesn't vote either party. Not trying to talk bad about y'all's boy...

Well, then stop doing it

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13 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Just making an observation as someone who doesn't vote either party. Not trying to talk bad about y'all's boy...

My mistake. I thought you were being serious. 

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2 minutes ago, Irwin F Fletcher said:
4 minutes ago, Red Five said:
My mistake. I thought you were being serious. 

He's just "asking questions" guy. Everyone loves that guy

Especially those that are too principled to vote for either party

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Anti incumbent enthusiasm can fucking crush a sitting president during an economic crisis. 

Check out Martin Van Buren. William Henry Harrison had basically a catchy slogan and promised a return to normalcy. 

Just make sure John Tyler isn't your vice.

Edited by Bateshorn

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3 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Anti incumbent enthusiasm can fucking crush a sitting president during an economic crisis. 

Check out Martin Van Buren. William Henry Harrison had basically a catchy slogan and promised a return to normalcy. 

Just make sure John Tyler isn't your vice.

Martin Van Buren is always my touchstone.  I have a bias towards dutch surnames, so sue me.

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6 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Anti incumbent sentiment can fucking crush a president. 

Check out Martin Van Buren. Just make sure John Tyler isn't your vice.

I remember writing a paper that hypothesized that MVB wasn't just an Andrew Jackson stooge....he was.

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1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Martin Van Buren is always my touchstone.  I have a bias towards dutch surnames, so sue me.

The Little Magacian was one of the greatest politicians, from a capability standpoint, in American History.  He just tookover the mess of the Jackson presidency. Nobody could have survived that.

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Regarding enthusiasm....
I absolutely care more about removing Trump than I do about elevating Biden. But my level of passion about removing Trump is higher than any enthusiasm I have had for any candidate ever. JFK could have come out of secret cryogenic freeze, with Lincoln as his running mate, and I’d still would care more about removing Trump from office. It’s not a knock on Biden that my main focus is getting rid of Trump. We are in a dangerous situation and that danger needs to end. Biden is the guy to do it. Cool.

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1 hour ago, BigHorn'13 said:

His answer on cognitive decline wasn't great. Compile that with the "I can hardly wait" headline CNN was running with and I'm already envisioning the negative ads. 

I'm struggling to see the enthusiasm in Biden. Even his supporters seem more anti trump than pro Biden. I expect that to change the closer we get to November but it's not looking too hot for Democrats in terms of energy. The party seems a little too scattered at the moment but maybe the hatred of trump will be enough to unify. 

I agree, Joe, even at his best, isn't Obama or even Bill on the campaign trail, but...... 

When you're running against probably the worst President in modern history, maybe being sleepy is enough.  Trump fatigue is real for independents and the passionate dislike for him on the Dem side is also pretty real and sustained.

Edited by Patrick Bateman

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Joe could die the week before the election and I would still stand in a crowd full of COVID to vote for him.  Anything to get Trump out of there. 

Edited by Chuckie Finster

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No Biden isn't Obama, but he also isn't Hillary. He is Generic (Geriatric?) Democrat and is polling better and performing better than most thought he would, IMO. 

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4 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

Jon Stewart is doing this press blitz for his new movie and does a stump speech for Biden.  The theme is Biden's tragic past has given him humility, so he is on board.  It's a reach.

If it is anything similar to what he said on Colbert the other night, then this is a really strange way to frame it.  Stewart admits that Biden was not one of this top choices, but his experiences with grief makes him maybe the perfect candidate at this moment for a nation that is in pain.  I thought he communicated it very well.

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Enthusiasm in Biden vs hatred for trump. I don't get the impression from the Democrats I know personally (as well as what's posted on this board) that they particularly like Biden all that much but hate trump with a passion. 
You know what's stronger in politics?

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13 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

If it is anything similar to what he said on Colbert the other night, then this is a really strange way to frame it.  Stewart admits that Biden was not one of this top choices, but his experiences with grief makes him maybe the perfect candidate at this moment for a nation that is in pain.  I thought he communicated it very well.

yeah, it was the same remarks. he repeated them to whoopi. it seemed very much that he was working backward from needing to say joe is the guy and looking for the reason why.  seemed a little obvious that he was trying to get positive momentum for joe instead of just negative momentum for donald, and I thought it was a little transparent.

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3 minutes ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

yeah, it was the same remarks. he repeated them to whoopi. it seemed very much that he was working backward from needing to say joe is the guy and looking for the reason why.  seemed a little obvious that he was trying to get positive momentum for joe instead of just negative momentum for donald, and I thought it was a little transparent.

I haven't seen the conversation with Whoopi, maybe it translated better with Colbert due to their relationship.  Also, I suppose that the viewer's opinion could shape how they are perceived, I've long thought (and posted as much) that Biden's humility would be the key factor in the election, and that was before the country lit itself on fire.

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It wasn't so much humility although that's part of it.  It's empathy and understanding because he's recovered from substantial loss.  Stewart's theory is Biden may be what the country needs coming off such a destructive and calamitous personality as Trump is someone who can heal the nation or start to mend the divisions of the country.  The country needs a healer.  Is it stilted?  Maybe but he was transparent in saying Biden wasn't his first choice on policy.  Biden's not really a policy or revolutionary driving a movement, that was Bernie or even Warren.  He's a vanilla corporatist Dem who's best attributes are he still gives a shit and seems to know what he doesn't know.

 

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The only reason Biden is the nominee is because Trump is president. That’s it, that was his entire reason for running.  He’s a one man emergency tourniquet and the mess he will have to clean up seems beyond his capabilities but at least he appears to acknowledge that too.

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz

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29 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

It wasn't so much humility although that's part of it.  It's empathy and understanding because he's recovered from substantial loss.  Stewart's theory is Biden may be what the country needs coming off such a destructive and calamitous personality as Trump is someone who can heal the nation or start to mend the divisions of the country.  The country needs a healer.  Is it stilted?  Maybe but he was transparent in saying Biden wasn't his first choice on policy.  Biden's not really a policy or revolutionary driving a movement, that was Bernie or even Warren.  He's a vanilla corporatist Dem who's best attributes are he still gives a shit and seems to know what he doesn't know.

 

I think "a vanilla corporatist Dem" misstates it somewhat.  Joe Biden is, and has always been, a generic Democrat.  And that's a feature, not a bug.  He has consistently put himself in the middle of where the party is, ideologically.  It may be one of his great talents as a politician--sensing where the middle of the Democratic road is and putting himself squarely there.

For that reason, I don't think progressives ought to be too worried about a Biden presidency.  The middle of the Democratic road right now is left of where it was under Obama and faaar left of where it was under Clinton.  And that's where Biden is going to govern from.

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2 hours ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Just making an observation as someone who doesn't vote either party. Not trying to talk bad about y'all's boy.

lulz

"I just don't see enthusiasm for Biden. This doesn't look good for Democrats because they don't actually care for Biden."

"Here's why you're wrong."

"Stop being so defensive about your boy! You guys are just defending him because you care about him too much!"

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4 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

I think "a vanilla corporatist Dem" misstates it somewhat.  Joe Biden is, and has always been, a generic Democrat.  And that's a feature, not a bug.  He has consistently put himself in the middle of where the party is, ideologically.  It may be one of his great talents as a politician--sensing where the middle of the Democratic road is and putting himself squarely there.

For that reason, I don't think progressives ought to be too worried about a Biden presidency.  The middle of the Democratic road right now is left of where it was under Obama and faaar left of where it was under Clinton.  And that's where Biden is going to govern from.

I agree with that. while the party hasn't moved as left as I personally would want it (M4A, voting rights, etc), there's too much traction gained by progressives and the Democratic party is (I think) smart enough to realize that the new and next generations are going to veer more left. if they don't want to become the left version of the GOP (read: obsolete), they will need to veer more left over time

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On 6/28/2020 at 7:06 PM, Francisco 2.0 said:

"Voting in person is safer than voting by mail".

 

By safer I mean that Russia has hacked the voting machines in DT's favor and we can't fake the mail-in ballots as easily.

 

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45 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The only reason Biden is the nominee is because Trump is president. That’s it, that was his entire reason for running.  He’s a one man emergency tourniquet and the mess he will have to clean up seems beyond his capabilities but at least he appears to acknowledge that too.

To be fair, it's beyond the capabilities of any one candidate.  It's going to take a really talented team to get us un-fucked.  I do think Biden will put together a fantastic team though.

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29 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

don't think progressives ought to be too worried about a Biden presidency.

The democratic base is progressives. The Black voters that got Biden the nomination are not moderate or right leaning dems.  The problem is the Republican Party is so crazy right wing that democrats feel like they have to run candidates already compromised to win elections.  And Bernie’s insurgency campaigns didn’t do a whole lot of favors in the short term for progressives because they now get ostracized by establishment dems as part of that leftist/socialist group when in reality they just want some progress away from our military/police/prison for profit state. 

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13 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The democratic base is progressives. The Black voters that got Biden the nomination are not moderate or right leaning dems.  The problem is the Republican Party is so crazy right wing that democrats feel like they have to run candidates already compromised to win elections.  And Bernie’s insurgency campaigns didn’t do a whole lot of favors in the short term for progressives because they now get ostracized by establishment dems as part of that leftist/socialist group when in reality they just want some progress away from our military/police/prison for profit state. 

I think you misunderestimate just how conservative a lot of Black voters are.

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16 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

I think you misunderestimate just how conservative a lot of Black voters are.

Okay, even if that’s true, progressive policy ideas like a wealth tax, anti-corruption legislation, healthcare policy, criminal justice reform, ending prisons for profit, addressing gun violence, expanding public education, eliminating student loan debt, and dealing with climate change are wildly popular ideas within the Democratic Party and the general population at large. These are progressive ideas.

Progressive activists don’t feel like they have a seat at the table with candidates like Biden.  They feel like the Bloombergs and Bezos interests come first and the government only works for them, they are anti-progressive democrats when it comes to legislation and governing.  

I read a ton of polling data and Black voters are more conservative on some of the cultural issues but I wouldn’t describe them as conservative. 

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On 6/29/2020 at 1:15 PM, Pancho said:

Just saw my first Biden attack ad by the trump campaign. 

Not sure if this was a national buy or what, but if you’re running attack ads—ATTACK ADS—against Biden in Texas? They know they are in trouble. 

I saw one last Wednesday in South Padre Island during the local news

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47 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

did you just make up a word there, counselor?

 

38 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Wut

 

I didn't make it up.  The greatest Republican president of the 21st Century made it up.

I can't believe y'all forgot my favorite Bushism so quickly.

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11 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

 

I didn't make it up.  The greatest Republican president of the 21st Century made it up.

I can't believe y'all forgot my favorite Bushism so quickly.

There are just so many. Strategery, nucular, fool me once...

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I hope this is the electoral equivalent of putting Trump on a rocket, no whiskey, no hash browns, and firing it into the sun.

Edited by TwiceHorn

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5 hours ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Just making an observation as someone who doesn't vote either party. Not trying to talk bad about y'all's boy...

Meh same thing happened in reverse last cycle.

Don't kid yourself into thinking that those 62 million were enthusiastic about Trump. A ton of them were down with his racism and pussy grabbing, but I bet a majority were more enthusiastic about voting against Hillary.

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2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The only reason Biden is the nominee is because Trump is president. That’s it, that was his entire reason for running.  He’s a one man emergency tourniquet and the mess he will have to clean up seems beyond his capabilities but at least he appears to acknowledge that too.

And?

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11 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

And?

I guess my point was for anyone that wants to rehash the primary, it has to start with Trump in the room and collective PTSD from 2016.  
 

Some interesting polling data regarding independents and moderates.  Biden voters that are independents are insanely (73%) voting AGAINST Trump instead of FOR Biden.  That’s one of those numbers that tells me Trump is turbofucked considering the lead Biden has right now with independents.  Looks like a similar situation with moderates.

 

6F733173_3E78_4D71_800E_88C094A7BEB4_IMG

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz

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34 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I hope this is the electoral equivalent of putting Trump on a rocket, no whiskey, no hash browns, and firing it into the sun.

And nucular goes back to Eisenhower.  Clinton pronounced it more that way than nuclear.

I had forgotten and attributed strategery to GWB, too.  Misunderestimated is great.  It's a little more than underestimated.  Maybe misunderstood, too.

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3 hours ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

yeah, it was the same remarks. he repeated them to whoopi. it seemed very much that he was working backward from needing to say joe is the guy and looking for the reason why.  seemed a little obvious that he was trying to get positive momentum for joe instead of just negative momentum for donald, and I thought it was a little transparent.

I too long for the nuance of the lock her up chants of 2016

jerking off michael keaton GIF

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1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I guess my point was for anyone that wants to rehash the primary, it has to start with Trump in the room and collective PTSD from 2016.  
 

Some interesting polling data regarding independents and moderates.  Biden voters that are independents are insanely (73%) voting AGAINST Trump instead of FOR Biden.  That’s one of those numbers that tells me Trump is turbofucked because Trump has completely lost the independents and they ain’t coming back. Looks like a similar situation with moderates.

 

6F733173_3E78_4D71_800E_88C094A7BEB4_IMG

Yep. Independents hated Hillary, right or wrong, and therefore broke for trump. Biden is the opposite. Independents like him. Its why he was always the best to defeat trump.

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