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2021 Houston Astros Thread


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1 hour ago, Mantis Toboggan, MD said:


Sure I remember. Bregman was also a 1-2 pick, was far more productive in a the minors, and ended up hitting 264 in 49 games even after his awful start. So Toro is hitting 193 over 93 games. I have watched most of those games but I agree it is a small sample size. It is possible he develops into a legitimate player, but it my untrained eye, I don’t see it. I am also confident that he has a noodle arm and is a below average fielding 3rd baseman after watching him play a number of games.

Comparing him to Bregman is just…fatuous. No one is saying he’s potentially a future superstar. But bases on how he projects there’s a decent enough chance he could be a 2-3 WAR player moving forward, and with four years of control thats pretty valuable. 
 

Josh Rojas would be a much better comparison to Toro. 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Planet Houston said:

Hnnnnngh. Whew.

So does Toro get to go back to the team hotel? I guess he has to hitch his own ride if so? 

Gotta be so weird. 

I think the clubhouse manager  just throws his shit into the street.

Edited by Stros121
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I wouldn't be opposed to giving up Jones/Robel for Tepera. He's walked 15 fewer people in the same number of innings as Stanek and has a whip under 0.8 (though I know being in the NL will impact that some)

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7 hours ago, Gourmand said:

You've watched Toro play in 25, 33, and 35 games total and it's highly unlikely you've actually watched him play every one of those games. 

Do you realize how miniscule a sample size that is for judging a major leaguer? Do you remember how long it took Bregman to figure it out?


astros traded toro to keep him from pushing Bregman for his spot and crushing his spirit 

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11 hours ago, Stros121 said:

Lance needs to figure out how to pitch inning # fucking 1!!!! 

If I have an important round of golf, I like to play 9 before. Maybe Lance should pitch a fake inning before the game somehow. 

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8 hours ago, UTHornFan014 said:

I wouldn't be opposed to giving up Jones/Robel for Tepera. He's walked 15 fewer people in the same number of innings as Stanek and has a whip under 0.8 (though I know being in the NL will impact that some)

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Shouldn’t impact anything for a reliever. It’s not like he would ever face a pitcher at the plate. 

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Posted (edited)

David Schoenfield hands out grades as the Houston Astros acquire RHPs Kendall Graveman and Rafael Montero from the Seattle Mariners for 3B Abraham Toro and RHP Joe Smith.

Spoiler

Astros: A

The Astros arguably have the best lineup in the majors, leading all teams in runs per game. They have one of the best rotations (second to the White Sox in the AL in ERA and second to the A's in the majors in innings pitched). They have an elite closer in Ryan Pressly (1.50 ERA, 54 K's, 7 BB, 2 HR in 42 IP). What they've lacked is bullpen depth. Their second-best reliever has been Cristian Javier, a starter by trade but pushed to the bullpen due to the depth of the rotation.

Now they add one of the best relievers of 2021 in Graveman, who has a 0.82 ERA in 33 innings while holding batters to a .136 average (he missed nearly a month while on the COVID-19 injured list). Graveman used to be a ground ball specialist when he was a starter for the A's, but he now averages 96.5 mph with a sinker that he throws more than 60% of the time and locates on the corners as well as up and down in the strike zone. He has been tough to hit all season and has been the key to the super-clutch Mariners bullpen -- sometimes closing, sometimes pitching in the eighth inning. He'll take over the eighth-inning inning for the Astros, allowing Dusty Baker to move away from the likes of Brooks Raley and Ryne Stanek in high-leverage situations. Looking ahead to October, the bullpen might not be a strength with Pressly, Graveman, Javier, plus whichever extra starter gets moved into relief -- not to mention all the additional days off that create more rest.

I thought the Astros might go for Craig Kimbrel, but adding Graveman keeps them under the luxury tax and gives them an excellent bullpen arm anyway. I thought they were the best team in the AL before the trade, and this reinforces that belief.

Mariners grade: D+

Coming off their biggest win of the season, when the Mariners rallied from a 7-0 deficit on Monday to beat the Astros on Dylan Moore's grand slam in the eighth inning, this has to feel like an absolute gut punch in the clubhouse. Indeed, Ryan Divish of the Seattle Times tweeted that, "Sources said the news of Graveman being traded to the Astros did not go over well in the Mariners clubhouse."

I get that Jerry Dipoto is selling high on Graveman, who is eligible for free agency after the season, but what about not selling out your team when it has clawed one game behind the A's in the wild-card race? For a franchise that hasn't made the playoffs since 2001? Let alone to help a division rival ... right when you're in the middle of a big series against them (and have 11 more games left against them).

Forget the Montero and Smith part of the trade. Both have been terrible this year. This deal is Graveman for Toro. The 24-year-old Toro isn't without talent, and scouts have always liked his swing and solid contact skills, but in 308 plate appearances in the majors over parts of three seasons, he has hit .193. He has been a little better in 2021 filling in for the injured Alex Bregman, hitting .211/.287/.385, but that hardly gets you juiced up if you're a Mariners fan and Seattle is clearly betting on potential as opposed to what he gas done at the major league level. Toro did hit .352/.485/.593 in 17 games at Triple-A this season, with more walks than strikeouts, and hit .324 in the minors in 2019, so you can see why the Mariners like him.

The Mariners might try him out at second base right now -- they're 28th in the majors in OPS at the position -- and he could receive first crack at replacing Kyle Seager at third base in 2022 if the Mariners don't exercise a $15 million club option on Seager. Does it make the Mariners better in 2021? Probably not, as the loss of Gravemen hurts. We'll see if it helps in the future.

Dipoto's trade history is shaky at best -- yes, he did well in dumping Robinson Cano's salary for Jarred Kelenic, but he has also been a poor judge of talent in trades, both internal (trading away Chris Taylor, Ryan Yarbrough and Freddy Peralta for nothing) and external (bringing in ... well, Rafael Montero to be his closer). Maybe he's due to win one. But the timing on this deal is absolutely brutal.

Edited by HtownHorn
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4 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

Would rather get a high quality pitcher.  1 bat isn't likely to be the difference in a WS run.  1 pitcher is much more likely to do so.

Lulz after seeing Randy Arozarena destroy us in the ALCS last year.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

Lulz after seeing Randy Arozarena destroy us in the ALCS last year.

You make my point.  It went to game 7 without Verlander and with a pitching staff that thankfully overperformed in the playoffs.  You want to count on that happening again this post-season?  An I'm not at all confident we got much out of Greinke this year.  Definitely possible, but not close to a certainty.

You really think Marte is going to perform at the level RA did that series?

Edited by clapclapclap
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1 hour ago, clapclapclap said:

You make my point.  It went to game 7 without Verlander and with a pitching staff that thankfully overperformed in the playoffs.  You want to count on that happening again this post-season?  An I'm not at all confident we got much out of Greinke this year.  Definitely possible, but not close to a certainty.

You really think Marte is going to perform at the level RA did that series?

Probably not, but he would outperform Straw. Not that it matters anymore because Oakland got him.

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On 7/25/2021 at 8:15 PM, Gourmand said:

Wellllll shiiiiiit, it just occurred to me that after the Astros head south for San Fran from Seattle, the pitcher has to hit for five consecutive games. 

How do you think Dusty manages around no DH? Yordan to the bench and Brantley in left? The only NL road trip thus far this season was to Colorado when all the position players were still healthy and Altuve had not yet come off of the covid IL. Fuckin sucks to lose one of those bats. 

 

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marte and chafin to the a's.  not great, both are nice pieces.

as for the "arozerena problem", that's something that's impossible to predict.  get all the arms you can, keep the hitters healthy and the lineup long.  right now we go 7 deep (with a healthy bregs).  that's rough on opposing staffs, as there are very few 'off' innings.  then find 4-5 reliable bullpen pieces.  i like the graveman deal, but i still think this could end up more like 2017 where we have starters throwing 3-4 innings to finish off a playoff game.

the issue with the 2017 dodgers was that they relied on 4 bullpen guys going in pretty much every game they led.  which meant all 4 guys had to be on that day.  if one wasn't, they lost.  i hate having to rely on even our best guys (pressly) 4-5x in a 6-7 game series.  give me 6 from greinke and 3 from javier.  a different game, urquidy can start, and lance can throw 4 to end it. 

it's all about who can get us outs.  that's why a deal for another closer doesn't thrill me.  i'm still mad the year we passed on grabbing eovaldi and he had a great postseason.

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Posted (edited)

So Brantley gets 3 days off in 8 days.
 

BTW: Toro gets the start at second base for the M’s which is interesting in that he only played 1 game at 2nd for us and not many in the minors  

 

Edited by TonyTexas
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6 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

So Brantley gets 3 days off in 8 days. BTW: Toro gets the start at second base for the M’s  

 

I'm perfectly fine with that. Gets McCormick some at bats and most importantly keeps Brantley fresh for the upcoming trip to Cali. 

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I was pondering the idea of Straw for Marte and I don't think I'd have actually done that.  I think straw extends  your lineup enough to make it 7.5 deep.  The 4 extra years of control as at least a quality 4th OF and a guy that is going to be league average-ish makes me think he's worth keeping around compared to the additional boost Marte gives you in winning the WS this year.

Straw making dick in CF is going to help us solve our SS and ace problem next year (my solution would be to offer Correa 12/320 or whatever Harper got and to offer JV 5/90 or something like that- but I Click and Crane seem to have lost my number).  

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16 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

offer JV 5/90 or something like that

I was with you until this. He’ll be 39 going into next season coming off  TJ surgery. AAV might be right but you’re way off on the years  

 

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15 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

I was with you until this. He’ll be 39 going into next season coming off  TJ surgery. AAV might be right but you’re way off on the years  

 

He said he wants to pitch into his mid 40's.  I think that would be the price we'd have to pay to get the AAV under 20 a year.  I think the rest of his career he has 10+ WAR in him.  I could be spectacularly wrong, but I honestly think at 9 or 10 million per WAR he would outperform that contract.  

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1 hour ago, TonyTexas said:

So Brantley gets 3 days off in 8 days.
 

BTW: Toro gets the start at second base for the M’s which is interesting in that he only played 1 game at 2nd for us and not many in the minors  

 

 

the astros traded toro to stop him from pushing for Altuve's start job and crushing his spirit !!!!

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