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2020 Democratic Nominee

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46 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Went out and looked and his poll numbers in three states:

GA -- 14%

FL -- 10%

SC -- 20%

Those are terrible for a supposed front runner.  So far his poll numbers landed about where his actual vote total came in so it's nothing to discount.  He's not turning out anyone.  There is increased turnout in some cases but it's going to other candidates.

I still think a lot of Biden's support is flimsy, so who knows.....

GA and FL are both over a month away. No one's numbers are good there at this point, Bloomberg's are arguably inflated, Biden is in a death spiral, and freaking Pete and Amy are even lower. Why do you keep acting like he needs to be leading in every state? Do you not understand there will be moment in a primary this crowded?

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1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

Yep. I don’t see Klobs or Warren in the race by Super Tuesday. 

Klobs will def be in the race on Super Tuesday. She isn't out of money and has momentum.  So you see Warren dropping out after Nevada next Saturday?

 

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Just now, Pasken said:

Klobs will def be in the race on Super Tuesday. She isn't out of money and has momentum.  So you see Warren dropping out after Nevada next Saturday?

 

All I’m saying is there’s a political risk to not winning your own state. So long as they’re willing to take that risk, they’ll stay in.

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My dream is that Bernie wins the nomination with a plurality of the vote and is picked at the convention because the bros bum rush the stage and take over and then in the general Trump wins the popular vote but Bernie wins the electoral college. 

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8 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

My dream is that Bernie wins the nomination with a plurality of the vote and is picked at the convention because the bros bum rush the stage and take over and then in the general Trump wins the popular vote but Bernie wins the electoral college. 

How do you think Trump would spin it if he won the popular vote but lost the electoral college? He would def try to stay president. 

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1 minute ago, Pasken said:

How do you think Trump would spin it if he won the popular vote but lost the electoral college? He would def try to stay president. 

trump will lose both the popular vote and the electoral college and still try to stay president.

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Who the fuck does fivethirtyeight think their readers are that they can't understand percentages?  2nd graders?  Their primary model on the front page right now shows a 2 in 5 chance that no one wins a majority of delegates and a 1 in 3 chance that Sanders wins a majority.  That would imply 40% and 33 1/3%.  But when you click through to the actual percentages, it's 37% to 36%.  Silver gets some strange ideas sometime.

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In case you don't already know, a contested convention means they can nominate whoever they want and it doesn't have to be any of these people.


Oprah gonna roll in big boss style and save us all from ourselves.

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4 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

trump will lose both the popular vote and the electoral college and still try to stay president.

i would examine your word "lose" there. that implies clarity and I don't see anything but confusion across the board. And confusion is where the soulless will leap to control, which is what Trump obv is. 

semantics, i know

Edited by staboner

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I would like to correct my statement from earlier regarding the Pod Save America guys. They said if Bernie wins California he’s basically a lock. Not South Carolina and Nevada. That’s all. 

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5 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

trump will lose both the popular vote and the electoral college and still try to stay president.

Trump isn't going quietly no matter what.

I'm beginning to think that all of this hand-wringing over which Democrat should win the nomination is wasted time, because it's not going to be a straight election.  They'll suppress as many voters as they can.  And he'll have help from Russia again.  If the early election night results aren't going his way, there will be problems counting votes.  A recount will definitely be needed.  Hell, Florida's got a Republican governor if they need to play that card again.

Trump will try to con enough people, with help from Russia, again, and if that doesn't work, he'll just steal the damned thing.  Who's going to stop him?

Edited by TexArcher

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11 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Trump isn't going quietly no matter what.

I'm beginning to think that all of this hand-wringing over which Democrat should win the nomination is wasted time, because it's not going to be a straight election.  They'll suppress as many voters as they can.  And he'll have help from Russia again.  If the early election night results aren't going his way, there will be problems counting votes.  A recount will definitely be needed.  Hell, Florida's got a Republican governor if they need to play that card again.

Trump will try to con enough people, with help from Russia, again, and if that doesn't work, he'll just steal the damned thing.  Who's going to stop him?

All correct. But add Saudi Arabia and Israel, at least, to that interference list. 

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8 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

trump will lose both the popular vote and the electoral college and still try to stay president.

He will use the covid-19 virus outbreak as an excuse to cancel elections and make himself president for life.

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It's embarrassing and insulting watching these stiffs on MSNBC/CNN pivot so hard to Bloomberg. Manhattan/Georgetown swamp creatures like Gloria Borger & Richard Stengel are twisting themselves in knots trying to normalize his campaign. I'm actually embarrassed for them.

Edited by Bruh Man

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Death, taxes, liberals being nihilistic and depressed 
It is easy for someone to feel helpless when they are an aimless spectator with only negative goals and unclear guiding principles.

This is going to be especially deadly when a delegate leader is clear and tens of thousands of liberals still sit on their hands and cry.

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I don’t understand the love for Bernie. His policies would never pass in Congress outside of also being way too expensive. He’s not a true Democrat. His health is in bad shape. And he’ll probably lose in a landslide by the time Trump gets everyone scared to death that he’ll ruin the country because he’s a socialist. But, if Democrats feel like it’s “Bernie’s turn” can we just get this over with? 

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Just now, Brandywine said:

I don’t understand the love for Bernie. His policies would never pass in Congress outside of also being way too expensive. He’s not a true Democrat. His health is in bad shape. And he’ll probably lose in a landslide by the time Trump gets everyone scared to death that he’ll ruin the country because he’s a socialist. But, if Democrats feel like it’s “Bernie’s turn” can we just get this over with? 

Duck!

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Really wish super Tuesday was for all 50 states and ranked choice voting was required in all of them. Instant runoff results with this many candidates.

Four years ago trump would've been at the bottom of enough ballots that he wouldn't have the nomination after the second ranking. Easy peasy.

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"His policies would never pass in Congress"

They absolutely could.

Will it be easy? No. But nothing worthwhile ever is.

We are going to have to replace many members of Congress over time. We are going to have to push many existing members of Congress to our side. With that done, the initiatives pass. Is it possible to push people out? Yes, with concerted and unified effort. Is it possible to push people to change their votes? Yes.

Again, it's not easy, but it's possible. And what we choosing to do is hope for a future in which our collective efforts lead to positive change. We do not want to wait on the sideline and vainly hope that one inspirational individual can do all the work for us while we watch prestige TV and eat brunch. We believe we can make a positive impact on the world, because we know we can make a positive impact.

Pundit-headed cynicism is often just an excuse we use to feel better about our laziness and lack of engagement.

Look at it another way: How did we get here?

- How do we have so little gun regulation when a majority of Americans want stronger gun laws?
- How do we have so underfunded a school system when a majority of Americans want better schools?
- How do we have so much medical debt when a majority of Americans (an OVERWHELMING majority) want affordable universal healthcare?
- How do we have such low wages when we KNOW we deserve more?

It is because of concerted and unified political efforts of bad actors. If a Congressperson proposes gun legislation, what happens? They are flooded with calls from old white people. They are hounded by them.

These people organize in churches and set up call lists.

We need to counter these influences with progressive voices. And we can win.

We WILL win.

"way too expensive"

Compared to what?

- How much does a dying planet cost?
- How much do tens of thousands of dead Americans for lack of healthcare cost?
- How much do lost generations of children cost when they aren't educated and end up in prison? 
- How much do destroyed families cost when we lock up their fathers and don't provide everything they need to live and thrive?

We spend trillions on toys of war. "Too expensive" doesn't exist in America when it comes to anything but helping the people, and we reject this right-wing framing of how we should live and work together.

"He’s not a true Democrat."

Explain what a "true Democrat" is and why we should even care.

"His health is in bad shape."

He's going to be in the White House with a team of elite doctors on call, not competing in American Ninja Warrior. He is as mentally sharp as ever so I don't care if he's bedridden. I'd rather a president have a sharp brain in a dying body than a dim brain in a thriving one.

He just did 3 huge rallies in 3 states in 1 day and looked fantastic (for an ancient husk of a man). Sharp and funny until the end.

Also, he's going to die soon after leaving office so we don't have to deal with a bunch of speculation and bullshit about how the former president feels or thinks about future progressive ideas.

"And he’ll probably lose in a landslide by the time Trump gets everyone scared to death that he’ll ruin the country because he’s a socialist."

Bernie has whipped Trump's ass in head-to-heads for 4 years now.

Only Bernie pulls massive crowds that can compete with Trump. Only Bernie inspires loyalty and dedication that can compete with Trump. Only Bernie can reach independents that we need to keep away from Trump.

If you want to win, Bernie is the choice.

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56 minutes ago, Brandywine said:

"I don’t understand the love for Bernie."

People first over billionaires and corporations/trusts dictating policy. We have money to pay for emergency wars and emergency financial collapse of the wealthy, but not enough to serve the same human needs as Western Democracies. 

"His policies would never pass in Congress"

Yes they can. He advocates for the same basic human rights that were fought for under Franklin Delano Roosevelt Administration. He believes SS should not reduced, unlike most of his competitors. Polling shows support for progressive policies that benefits the poor, working and hollowed-out middle class (which continues to collapse). 

"[O]utside of [his policies] also being way too expensive. "

You haven't kept up with modern economics, which is not uncommon. Dr. Dean Baker (economist) recently published an easy explanation if you are interested in economics. See https://cepr.net/yes-it-s-monday-morning-and-robert-samuelson-is-worried-about-budget-deficits/  Pete Peterson was a lying billionaire and propagandist who funded the debt scare voodoo. 

"He’s not a true Democrat."

Incorrect. He is a Democrat. And his policies are the foundation of the Democratic Party going back to FDR. 

"His health is in bad shape."

We have made remarkable advances in cardiac care. A stent is not a big deal anymore. He is outworking you and me everyday on the campaign trail. A good VP will be needed, like for any President. And after all for goodness sake, look at how long Dick Cheney survived without a heart.

"And he’ll probably lose in a landslide by the time Trump gets everyone scared to death that he’ll ruin the country because he’s a socialist."

Nope. He is polling ahead of Trump in most States, including Texas. And again, the scare word "socialism" doesn't pack the same punch these days. But if you want to talk about billionaire and corporate/trust socialism in this country, I can tell you more.

"But, if Democrats feel like it’s “Bernie’s turn” can we just get this over with?"

The DNC leadership and surrogates do not like Sanders or his the People who will vote for him. Once he wins the nomination, that leadership will change. They are arguing for their plum jobs and seats on Boards. 

Thanks for the Never-Trumper/Republican/Trump talking points.

Who are you supporting in 2020, just out of curiosity?  Thanks.

Edited by washparkhorn

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wash you should make a Google Spreadsheet of the support information so it's easier to see who is concern trolling and who isn't lol

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Why is the guy that wants to give everybody healthcare and tax the rich so popular!?

Edited by Calihorn

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Pete's Republican turn is one of the most disappointing storylines of 2019 primary.

He was such an interesting progressive voice last year. Jesus Christ...

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22 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Pete's Republican turn is one of the most disappointing storylines of 2019 primary.

He was such an interesting progressive voice last year. Jesus Christ...

Medicare For All Who Want It is now a Republican platform?  You might want to inform them.

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Really wish super Tuesday was for all 50 states and ranked choice voting was required in all of them. Instant runoff results with this many candidates.

Four years ago trump would've been at the bottom of enough ballots that he wouldn't have the nomination after the second ranking. Easy peasy.

Warren would probably end up the nominee in a ranked choice scenario. She's the leading second choice for the supporters of most candidates abd continues to have very high favorability.

I think that's the needle her campaign is trying to thread, and while I think it's a bad approach, I at least see the logic.

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1 minute ago, gmr548 said:


Warren would probably end up the nominee in a ranked choice scenario. She's the leading second choice for the supporters of most candidates abd continues to have very high favorability.

I think that's the needle her campaign is trying to thread, and while I think it's a bad approach, I at least see the logic.

Yep.  But we aren't smart enough to do that.

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1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

Medicare For All Who Want It is now a Republican platform?  You might want to inform them.

Oh it's not just the desperation on Pete's part to make sure that we can hit the poor with a $7k penalty and secure the billions of dollars in profits for his wealthy donors, Biff, it's also about the "government taking away our choice!" rhetoric used against progressive ideas when trying to secure that punishment of the poor and the billions in profits for wealthy donors.

It's genuinely disappointing to see. I was excited about the guy from 12/18 to about 3/19... I even bought his first round of "BOOT EDGE EDGE" t-shirts.

I thought he was going to be a fresh young progressive voice who had new ideas, but ... nope ... just a blue dog boomer in a millenial skin suit.

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Yep. I don’t see Klobs or Warren in the race by Super Tuesday. 

They'll both make it there. Warren has the resources to hold out that long and Klobuchar has gotten a bump out of NH. If Super Tuesday delivers a split decision I could see Warren trying to make it to the convention in hopes of being the compromise candidate.

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1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

we can hit the poor with a $7k penalty and secure the billions of dollars in profits for his wealthy donors, Biff, it's also about the "government taking away our choice!" rhetoric used against progressive ideas when trying to secure that punishment of the poor and the billions in profits for wealthy donors.

Expand on this.

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The penalty

M4AWWI would bring back the tax penalty on those who chose not to enroll in health insurance. Unfortunately, Pete hasn't outlined how he would handle this requirement (seems important), but depending on household size and state (which can assess their own penalties in this kind of scheme), that can get into the thousands. If you're too financially insecure to afford health insurance in the first place, being hit with a penalty for not having done so is... not good.

$700 per person is more accurate than using a larger penalty like $7k, because to get up that high would take some very unique circumstances.

Politically, "Guess what, I'm going to bring back the extremely unpopular universal mandate and tax penalty!" is a general election poison pill in addition to being terrible policy.

The rhetoric

That should be pretty obvious.

"The government doesn't trust you to make a choice!" is how the right kills public programs. It's how they tried to kill public schooling. It's how they are trying to kill Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. It is straight out of the Republican playbook.

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Progressive maximalists, much like libertarian ideologues,  think everyone will agree with them once they are forced into compliance and see how awesome things are. So in that view of the world, it makes sense that forcing people to choose from a range of coverage is too unpopular to work, but forcing people into a single government program is too lovable to fail. 

 

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1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Progressive maximalists, much like libertarian ideologues,  think everyone will agree with them once they are forced into compliance and see how awesome things are.

Did you not see that AOC recently just outlined the negotiation stepbacks from M4A? Not exactly smart politics on her part, but it puts to bed any good faith concern that their goal is M4A or millions of dead/uninsured Americans.

Not that you're operating in good faith, of course. And not that you will actually address the question I just asked you. You, like so many here, have your script and you can't do anything but read from it.

 

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13 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Did you not see that AOC recently just outlined the negotiation stepbacks from M4A? Not exactly smart politics on her part, but it puts to bed any good faith concern that their goal is M4A or millions of dead/uninsured Americans.

Not that you're operating in good faith, of course. And not that you will actually address the question I just asked you. You, like so many here, have your script and you can't do anything but read from it.

M4A proponents need to do a better job convincing most people with employer provided health care that M4A is an improvement on what they have right now. 

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10 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

M4A proponents need to do a better job convincing most people with employer provided health care that M4A is an improvement on what they have right now. 

Agree, we need to be on the phones and knocking doors.

Would you like to help us, David?

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6 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Agree, we need to be on the phones and knocking doors.

Would you like to help us, David?

No. I vote. That's all I will ever do when it comes to politics. I don't give money or volunteer and I never will.

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4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

I don't give money or volunteer and I never will.

Why?

I don't mean to ask in a critical way, but I come across this a lot and it's not uncommon for people to just feel like nothing they do matters, which isn't true.

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8 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Why?

I don't mean to ask in a critical way, but I come across this a lot and it's not uncommon for people to just feel like nothing they do matters, which isn't true.

Because I don't want to.

So I vote. 

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1 hour ago, gmr548 said:


Warren would probably end up the nominee in a ranked choice scenario. She's the leading second choice for the supporters of most candidates abd continues to have very high favorability.

I think that's the needle her campaign is trying to thread, and while I think it's a bad approach, I at least see the logic.

I hadn’t thought of that and I would Be 100% fine with it.  Apart from freaking out the banksters, she’s got among the least unfavorables, is progressive, and female.  If POC can come around in Bloomberg, I’m not worried about Warren if and when she’s the tip of the spear. 

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11 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Because I don't want to.

Do you feel like your lack of participation in the democratic process beyond the most basic and passive aspect adds or detracts from your credibility as someone who discusses what others should or should not do to effectively gain power?

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10 hours ago, TexArcher said:

Trump isn't going quietly no matter what.

I'm beginning to think that all of this hand-wringing over which Democrat should win the nomination is wasted time, because it's not going to be a straight election.  They'll suppress as many voters as they can.  And he'll have help from Russia again.  If the early election night results aren't going his way, there will be problems counting votes.  A recount will definitely be needed.  Hell, Florida's got a Republican governor if they need to play that card again.

Trump will try to con enough people, with help from Russia, again, and if that doesn't work, he'll just steal the damned thing.  Who's going to stop him?

If the Russians really wanna ramp up the infighting in this country they would help Bern this time.  Not saying they didn’t help Trump last time around, just saying helping Bern this time then spilling what they know on Dotard is the move.  

Edited by ChiTownDoc

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29 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

If the Russians really wanna ramp up the infighting in this country they would help Bern this time.  Not saying they didn’t help Trump last time around, just saying helping Bern this time then spilling what they know on Dotard is the move.  

Bernie_Sanders_in_speedo_insert_courtesy

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2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Progressive maximalists, much like libertarian ideologues,  think everyone will agree with them once they are forced into compliance and see how awesome things are. So in that view of the world, it makes sense that forcing people to choose from a range of coverage is too unpopular to work, but forcing people into a single government program is too lovable to fail. 

 

I know, right, Becky? Look at what this progressive maximalist said . . .   Oh My God, can you believe the nerve of him?

“I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program.” (applause)

“I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its Gross National Product on health care cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody.

And that’s what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that’s what I’d like to see.

But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House.” 

Obama speaking to the Illinois AFL-CIO, June 30, 2003.

 

Coda: Yes We Can.

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