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The Airplane Fanatic Thread

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Basically the rule about dry leases is about providing the plane with a crew. If you provide a plane with a crew you are a part 135 operation and subject to a lot more cost and regulation. If you provide the plane separate from the crew, you will qualify for part 91 operation, which is much less strenuous.

Neither 91 nor 135 says fuel has to be paid for separately.

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Every dry lease I've done included fuel. Crew and catering were the only extras. How much is the fuel burn per hour? Compare the all in cost to charter. Should be less because you're signing up for a block of hours.

Also knowing the owner, maintenance and crew is a positive.

$800ish an hour on the fuel burn.  
 

edit: and I just assumed it was some regulation.  I wasn’t told either way.  
 

And thanks again, really helpful.  

Edited by ChiTownDoc

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$800ish an hour on the fuel burn.  
 
edit: and I just assumed it was some regulation.  I wasn’t told either way.  
 
And thanks again, really helpful.  
No problem.

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19 hours ago, milkman said:


You might look into a Lear 45 if they have one in the fleet. Cabin is not as big as the Challenger but the costs to operate should be less and its faster!

Faster than a what?  I have about 4000 hours in the 40/45/75. Chicago to San Diego is right on the edge of comfortable flying range. And you might have to stretch it by slowing to M .76. That’s assuming a 50kt average headwind. It’s a one stop trip in the winter heading west.

About $2500/hr to operate. 4 hours of cruise is about 5200lbs of burn, or 780 gallons. 

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

It's 100 hours for 160K and fuel is NOT included in the paperwork.

This seems like a deal. I believe the charter card price for a Lear 40 was $ 108k for 25 hours. That’s the everything included price,  but it’s also decade old numbers. 

Edited by Bobby_Batronic

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22 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

This seems like a deal. I believe the charter card price for a Lear 40 was $ 108k for 25 hours. That’s the everything included price,  but it’s also decade old numbers. 

Yes his normal is 250K but I said on rare occasions I'd take the 8 seater hawker if we have somebody else coming in for an expensive last minute booking.  And he needed money to wrap up his G4 deal. 

Appreciate the input, this shit can be intimidating.  I just tell myself, worst case scenario I piss on 160K plus whatever on a couple trips that turn out higher than I thought - he will also let me sell the hours so highly doubt it ends up a total loss.  

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Yes his normal is 250K but I said on rare occasions I'd take the 8 seater hawker if we have somebody else coming in for an expensive last minute booking.  And he needed money to wrap up his G4 deal. 

Appreciate the input, this shit can be intimidating.  I just tell myself, worst case scenario I piss on 160K plus whatever on a couple trips that turn out higher than I thought - he will also let me sell the hours so highly doubt it ends up a total loss.  

That's a good deal then with the ability to move up or down in plane and sell block hours to other customers.

 

Edited by Bobby_Batronic

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My dads partner on one of his planes also flew corporate, eventually at Mci/Verizon/ whatever. Anyway he logged a ton of hours on a Falcon 50 then they put him in the G4/G5.

He loved the falcon 50 for what it’s worth. That was his preferred plane in the fleet.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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My dads partner on one of his planes also flew corporate, eventually at Mci/Verizon/ whatever. Anyway he logged a ton of hours on a Falcon 50 then they put him in the G4/G5.

He loved the falcon 50 for what it’s worth. That was his preferred plane in the fleet.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I've heard that pilots love Falcons. Great plants to fly.

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On 8/16/2020 at 9:45 PM, ChiTownDoc said:

You know planes.  Have a chance to land a good block of hours on a Falcon 50.  Thoughts?  I trust the guy - has a fleet and just picked up a G4 too.  I can pay $500 more an hour for that one but will only do it rarely as it sucks fuel like nobody's business...Not to that G6 yet but figure this is a way for me to learn about em and not get totally crushed.  Technically it's a dry lease and he's putting me on his insurance etc.  

 

Sorry to be late to the party. Chewbacca has covered the bases pretty well already. The biggest advice I can give is make sure you treat it dispassionately, it's a business decision, nothing more. It's hard, I even have to remind myself that when it comes to excavators and bulldozers not to have romantic notions about one or the other, much less something like a plane when I'm an Avgeek.

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18 hours ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

This seems like a deal. I believe the charter card price for a Lear 40 was $ 108k for 25 hours. That’s the everything included price,  but it’s also decade old numbers. 

Given it's a Lear 40 they should be paying the customer. If you go Lear, go all out with a hideously noisy, inefficient but fast Lear 25

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1 hour ago, G650 said:

Given it's a Lear 40 they should be paying the customer. If you go Lear, go all out with a hideously noisy, inefficient but fast Lear 25

Nah. It’s a good machine for ones and twosies who don’t mind a single stop for coast to coast trips. I flew a lot of Challenger owners who were happy to slum it in the Lear fleet when not dragging 9 friends along with them. 

Its a clean sheet design from Bombardier, so it only resembles the original Lears. It’s greatest sin is that the Phenom can do everything it can for less money in a small, slow and shitty package. 

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2 hours ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

Nah. It’s a good machine for ones and twosies who don’t mind a single stop for coast to coast trips. I flew a lot of Challenger owners who were happy to slum it in the Lear fleet when not dragging 9 friends along with them. 

Its a clean sheet design from Bombardier, so it only resembles the original Lears. It’s greatest sin is that the Phenom can do everything it can for less money in a small, slow and shitty package. 

Totally unrelated, but the single coldest moment I think I have spend was standing on the tarmac in Des Moines in a snowstorm and like eleventy billion below zero temps  for a fuel stop on a Lear 25 from ORF to GEG

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1 hour ago, G650 said:

Totally unrelated, but the single coldest moment I think I have spend was standing on the tarmac in Des Moines in a snowstorm and like eleventy billion below zero temps  for a fuel stop on a Lear 25 from ORF to GEG

Mine was in Winnipeg in February when we couldn’t get a heated hangar. -36C. 

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28 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

Mine was in Winnipeg in February when we couldn’t get a heated hangar. -36C. 


Let me be the first to say, fuck that shit.

 

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23 hours ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

Mine was in Winnipeg in February when we couldn’t get a heated hangar. -36C. 

Hell, at that temperature, you basically don't even have to specify units.

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1 hour ago, Longhornmaniac8 said:

Hell, at that temperature, you basically don't even have to specify units.

Yeah, I actually think that’s pretty close to where F and C meet. The next day was delayed until we could put the plane in a hangar and get it warmed up to minimum starting temp. We accidentally left two bottles of water on the plane and they were still liquid, but flash froze with just a bit of agitation. 

We eventually repositioned down to Eagle, CO where it was a balmy -7C. We were walking around in short sleeves enjoying the heat. 

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Posted (edited)

Can't you guys just fly SWA instead?  I got kids to feed.

ChiTown, instead of pulling up directly to the plane in your Lambo, wouldn't you rather just take the Orange Line to KMDW and slum it with the poors?

Edited by Assman

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On 8/19/2020 at 6:07 PM, Bobby_Batronic said:

Yeah, I actually think that’s pretty close to where F and C meet. The next day was delayed until we could put the plane in a hangar and get it warmed up to minimum starting temp. We accidentally left two bottles of water on the plane and they were still liquid, but flash froze with just a bit of agitation. 

We eventually repositioned down to Eagle, CO where it was a balmy -7C. We were walking around in short sleeves enjoying the heat. 

No Herman Nelsons sitting around? (Ice Pilots fan here)

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6 hours ago, Lat22 said:

No Herman Nelsons sitting around? (Ice Pilots fan here)

Just heated hangars. My memory is getting a bit dodgy on the numbers, but I think the cabin had to be -23C to start and -15C for takeoff. Even then the avionics weren’t very happy until the plane warmed considerably. 

We tried to explain to our dispatch that we couldn’t do the next day’s trips because of limitations. Their response? Show up earlier. I can still hear my partner yelling into the phone “How will that make the plane warmer?”.  Blew up their whole day. 

I was up there again a few years later during similar weather, but we talked them into making it a turn. 

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https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/celera-500l-plane/index.html

Quote

 

Now, in the late summer of the strangest year in aviation history, the Celera 500L has finally been revealed to the world, with the launch of a new website and a bunch of very cool new photos.

What we're looking at is a six-person private craft that promises to fly at jet speeds, but with eight times lower fuel consumption, and a range that's twice that of a comparably sized craft.

Bold claims indeed. Otto Aviation says on its website that 31 successful test flights have so far been performed, with aerodynamic efficiency proven in 2019, bolstering its declaration that "the Celera 500L is the most fuel-efficient, commercially viable aircraft in existence."

The company, founded in 2008 and an offshoot of Bill Otto's Otto Laboratories, says that the Celera 500L runs at 18 to 25 miles-per-gallon fuel economy (compared to the 2-3 miles-per-gallon of a comparable jet aircraft).

Then there are the modest $328 hourly operating costs, which are about six times lower, and the generous 4,500-nautical-mile range. Maximum cruise speed is projected to reach more than 460 miles per hour.

 

image.thumb.png.69e3db690dbc7bfd965093a7af2495e2.png

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On 8/21/2020 at 8:04 PM, Assman said:

Can't you guys just fly SWA instead?  I got kids to feed.

ChiTown, instead of pulling up directly to the plane in your Lambo, wouldn't you rather just take the Orange Line to KMDW and slum it with the poors?

I’ve done that dozens of times, my friend.  They used to have the $39 fun fares MDW->MCI.  We tore those fuckers up in residency and Med school.  Bringing back some great memories...

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Posted (edited)
On 8/25/2020 at 1:40 PM, Gil Bang said:

Chi: just curious, are you flying in an out of Palomar when you do San Diego?

I’m pretty sure that sounds right.  I’ve never flown private into SD before.  Is there something we should avoid?

Edited by ChiTownDoc

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Took my first flight in a Citation Ultra the other day.  It was quite smooth despite the stormy weather.  Not the most roomy inside, but still a kickass experience once i got into the seat.  Hard to beat private jet travel. 

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On 9/8/2020 at 1:56 PM, StassneyHorn said:

Took the written today and got a 90. So that was cool

Back when I took mine, I got the ASA study guide.  I had a few questions on the test that were word for word in the study guide.  I would get 5 words in to the question and say to myself "oh this is choice C".  Is it still just 40ish questions?

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3 minutes ago, markstanco said:

Back when I took mine, I got the ASA study guide.  I had a few questions on the test that were word for word in the study guide.  I would get 5 words in to the question and say to myself "oh this is choice C".  Is it still just 40ish questions?

60 questions, 2.5 hours given to finish. Took me 30 or so minutes. Most of the questions I had seen before on Sportys practice tests beforehand. Even the “look at Figure XX” were mostly the same. 

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I actually didn’t get any questions about trip planning on the test if I remember right, and those were the ones that were always a pain in the ass practicing. One question on VOR.

no questions like “what heading should you be traveling? 35, 38, 40?” or “how long will it take to go from figure 1 to figure 2 with adjusting for xx?”

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On 9/15/2020 at 9:56 PM, Gil Bang said:

so  a friend was on an AA flight today that landed due to "contaminated fuel".   Is that a buzzer in the cockpit kind of deal?

The only way you’d know that is if dispatch messaged you and said they suspected you got bad fuel.  Or maybe a fuel filter as previously mentioned.  But either way, I’d never tell pax we might have contaminated fuel.  

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1 hour ago, Assman said:

The only way you’d know that is if dispatch messaged you and said they suspected you got bad fuel.  Or maybe a fuel filter as previously mentioned.  But either way, I’d never tell pax we might have contaminated fuel.  

Friend is ExPlat and knew one of the FA's fairly well. She told him. 

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My DIL’s mom & stepdad were killed by contaminated fuel when they were flying their private plane from Lubbock to Branson 20+ years ago.

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