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Marvel Movies Better than Black Panther


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Black Panther has now become the highest domestic grossing Marvel film ever, surpassing the OG Avengers movie in box office sales. While I found Black Panther to be wholly entertaining, it's pretty incredible hearing reviewers mention it as a potential best picture nominee.  It was apparent to me the film was dogged by the same overwrought Marvel troupes as many of the other films, namely a less-than-compelling, overly serious lead (similar to Captain America in the first Cap film), too much plot, not enough character development, a very predictable last third, etc. 

Personally, I thought Thor: Ragnarok was far superior as a Marvel movie, as my tastes for superhero movies slides more into the meta-narratives of Deadpool and Guardians, as well as Civil War, Winter Soldier, both Guardians movies, and the original Avengers powered by Whedon's clever scriptwriting.  Thoughts on where Black Panther ranks in the Marvel hierarchy? 

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Marvel movies can now be separated into 3 genres: serious movies, fun movies, crap sequels. BP, Cap 2, Civil War are in the serious genre. GOTG, Ant Man, Thor: Ragnarok are in the fun genre. Avengers 2: Electric Ultron Boogaloo, Iron Man 2 are in the third tier. Black Panther is going to get extra points from people because it was the first, true stand alone black superhero movie. It's not as good as Cap 2, Civil War, and Avengers but it's pretty damn good. It's getting Best Picture play because it was a transcendent movie based on what it meant to the genre. Just like Star Wars back in the day. I'm not sure why the overly positive response seems to rub some the wrong way. 

VVV Iron Man would definitely be in tier 1. 

Edited by mdmost
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2 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

i still maintain that iron man is the best marvel superhero movie, and i'm not sure it's that close.  therefore, it's better than black panther.

I agree.  At this point they're all basically the same and I've completely forgotten them 3 days later.

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6 hours ago, 52-80 said:

After a while it's all same same.  I have comic movie fatigue

While I really agree with this (and that post-A:IW I'm taking a break sans Venom), Black Panther was really, really well done and better than the majority of Marvel movies. Coogler is a fantastic director. 

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for me, it's an above average marvel movie.  it was preachy but it apparently speaks to a great many people, most of whom are black.  i'm happy that this is a good movie portraying positive images for black characters.  there aren't that many so i can understand the black communities embrace of this movie.

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12 hours ago, crash_davis said:

i'm happy that this is a good movie portraying positive images for black characters.  there aren't that many so i can understand the black communities embrace of this movie.

Why are you acting like a certain movie called Juwanna Mann doesn't exist. 

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20 hours ago, BigBenBamboozle said:

Personally, I thought Thor: Ragnarok was far superior as a Marvel movie, as my tastes for superhero movies slides more into the meta-narratives of Deadpool and Guardians, as well as Civil War, Winter Soldier, both Guardians movies, and the original Avengers powered by Whedon's clever scriptwriting.  Thoughts on where Black Panther ranks in the Marvel hierarchy? 

Ragnarok is waaaay more overrated than Black Panther.

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Both GOTG films are both far better than BP from an entertainment standpoint.  I wish Marvel had treated the BP movie the way they did the Daredevil and Jessica Jones series on Netflix.  Character first, FX well down the list.

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2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Ragnarok is waaaay more overrated than Black Panther.

This here.    It was ok.   If it wasn't for Blanchett it would have been pretty bad.    Had some funny parts but not especially funny.

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55 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Both GOTG films are both far better than BP from an entertainment standpoint.  I wish Marvel had treated the BP movie the way they did the Daredevil and Jessica Jones series on Netflix.  Character first, FX well down the list.

The first GotG yes.   The 2nd one not so much.   

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2 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

This.  It wasn't Winter Soldier, but it was damn good.

 

Winter Soldier was GREAT right up until the moment Cap found out WS was Bucky.   Cap becoming emo almost killed the movie.   Fortunately, they built up enough of a story outside that relationship to carry the movie the rest of the way.

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I walked out of Black Panther. They had a car chase in Korea for no reasons and there was some CGI and i realized that i just no longer gave a fuck what happened. i had seen Annihilation the week before and i think it ruined me. It was pure art; it was everything that cinema can be. It blew my fucking mind.

This marvel shit is just shit. Over produced shit. I've had enough. No more star wars or marvel for me  (at least in the theater) ever again. Harrumph. 

I mean, i loved winter soldier, I loved GoTG and Ragnorak but these seem to be exceptions to the rule. 

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46 minutes ago, DarthBalls said:

I walked out of Black Panther. They had a car chase in Korea for no reasons and there was some CGI and i realized that i just no longer gave a fuck what happened. i had seen Annihilation the week before and i think it ruined me. It was pure art; it was everything that cinema can be. It blew my fucking mind.

This marvel shit is just shit. Over produced shit. I've had enough. No more star wars or marvel for me  (at least in the theater) ever again. Harrumph. 

I mean, i loved winter soldier, I loved GoTG and Ragnorak but these seem to be exceptions to the rule. 

Winter Soldier is maybe the best pure Marvel movie, where everything feels earned and the tension feels real.  The action sequences were measured but impressive.  I felt like Black Panther didn't have any time to build character from the jump, and the penultimate fight scenes for who would be crowned both felt disorienting (they can't all be John Wick's fight choreographer, I 'spose). 

And yes: Annihilation's beautiful display of mental illness and self-destruction probably didn't help your comparative lens, ha. Veeerrrryy different third acts, huh?

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2 hours ago, d2o said:

This here.    It was ok.   If it wasn't for Blanchett it would have been pretty bad.    Had some funny parts but not especially funny.

I thought it was the best use of humor of any Marvel movie this side of the OG Guardians.  Laughed the whole way, esp with Goldblum's meta-performance and Waititi (the director) voicing Korg's kiwi-ness. 

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3 minutes ago, BigBenBamboozle said:

Winter Soldier is maybe the best pure Marvel movie, where everything feels earned and the tension feels real.  The action sequences were measured but impressive.  I felt like Black Panther didn't have any time to build character from the jump, and the penultimate fight scenes for who would be crowned both felt disorienting (they can't all be John Wick's fight choreographer, I 'spose). 

And yes: Annihilation's beautiful display of mental illness and self-destruction probably didn't help your comparative lens, ha. Veeerrrryy different third acts, huh?

So true about Winter's soldier's tension feeling organic and earned. It just felt like natural.

Black panther was so busy world building that they forgot to build any characters. It was flat. It was "business as usual" and im sick of it. I don't know if you watch Red Letter Media or not, but I think i have, what they call, Blockbuster Fatigue. I can only see the same thing so many times. I have officially reached my limit. 

I wouldn't know about Black Panther'd third act because i walked out but i assume there is some fighting and some comedic quips and black panther wins? I don't care really. 

The third act of Annihilation was everything i wanted it to be. I was in AWE. I was on the edge of my seat. I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN!!!  Fuck, I didn't even know what was happening when it was on screen happening in front of my face. It was like a breath of fresh air. Wanted to go see it again in the theater but of course it bombed and was only around for a couple of weeks. The theater probably had to make room for more fucking marvel movies!

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6 minutes ago, DarthBalls said:

So true about Winter's soldier's tension feeling organic and earned. It just felt like natural.

Black panther was so busy world building that they forgot to build any characters. It was flat. It was "business as usual" and im sick of it. I don't know if you watch Red Letter Media or not, but I think i have, what they call, Blockbuster Fatigue. I can only see the same thing so many times. I have officially reached my limit. 

I wouldn't know about Black Panther'd third act because i walked out but i assume there is some fighting and some comedic quips and black panther wins? I don't care really. 

The third act of Annihilation was everything i wanted it to be. I was in AWE. I was on the edge of my seat. I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN!!!  Fuck, I didn't even know what was happening when it was on screen happening in front of my face. It was like a breath of fresh air. Wanted to go see it again in the theater but of course it bombed and was only around for a couple of weeks. The theater probably had to make room for more fucking marvel movies!

I'm feeling the same fatigue, but movies like Annihilation, Wind River, and Good Time are such a needed salve.  Even batshit movies I didn't exactly love like mother!, The Bad Batch, and The Killing of a Sacred Deer, I can at least appreciate the sense of not having a fucking clue where the narratives are headed.  These are anti-Marvel in their narrative brazenness and should be seen in a theatre to support films that dare to be different. 

The beats of the third act of Black Panther are so expected, it was stunning.  The final battle felt like nothing was at stake, no chance of *any* of the main characters to ultimately perish, nor did I understand why Daniel Kaluuya's troops just jumped ship so quickly with Killmonger, only to flip back in about 5 minutes of screen time. 

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1 hour ago, BigBenBamboozle said:

I'm feeling the same fatigue, but movies like Annihilation, Wind River, and Good Time are such a needed salve.  Even batshit movies I didn't exactly love like mother!, The Bad Batch, and The Killing of a Sacred Deer, I can at least appreciate the sense of not having a fucking clue where the narratives are headed.  These are anti-Marvel in their narrative brazenness and should be seen in a theatre to support films that dare to be different. 

The beats of the third act of Black Panther are so expected, it was stunning.  The final battle felt like nothing was at stake, no chance of *any* of the main characters to ultimately perish, nor did I understand why Daniel Kaluuya's troops just jumped ship so quickly with Killmonger, only to flip back in about 5 minutes of screen time. 

when there is no risk of anyone dying, there is no fun. Marvel should fuck with everyone and make one of their standard movies and kill the lead, (and i don't mean the infinity war) Like Antman three he should fucking die and wasp should get  her arms torn off or something. That would be awesome. This post got dark fast. 

 

PS if they don't kill a main character in the infinity war, then the world of cinema is lost forever. or something.  (i assume a certain older metal boye will bite the dust, but i dont know)

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9 minutes ago, DarthBalls said:

I don't know if you are fucking with everyone bc it was not a marvel movie, but Logan was just excellent. I loved every second of it. 

Well its a Marvel movie, just not a Marvel Cinematic Universe movie since its a Fox property.

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Personally, I like Avengers 1, Thor Ragnarok, Thor 1, and both GotG better than BP.  Probably some of the others too.  The villain in BP was one of the better ones though.  The special effects were silly looking and some aspects of the goofy African setting didn't work for me, such as the rhino squads.  I am less familiar with BP than the other characters though so that may be why it bothers me more than say Asgard and some of the silliness therein.

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1 hour ago, DarthBalls said:

I don't know if you are fucking with everyone bc it was not a marvel movie, but Logan was just excellent. I loved every second of it. 

Sorry I wasn’t intentionally fucking with anyone. Now that it has been said, I remember Logan was a Fox movie. In my mind I was just thinking about Marvel comic characters

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8 hours ago, DarthBalls said:

I walked out of Black Panther. They had a car chase in Korea for no reasons and there was some CGI and i realized that i just no longer gave a fuck what happened. i had seen Annihilation the week before and i think it ruined me. It was pure art; it was everything that cinema can be. It blew my fucking mind.

This marvel shit is just shit. Over produced shit. I've had enough. No more star wars or marvel for me  (at least in the theater) ever again. Harrumph. 

I mean, i loved winter soldier, I loved GoTG and Ragnorak but these seem to be exceptions to the rule. 

Hates overproduction, loves Ragnarok.

Okay.

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On 3/27/2018 at 8:55 PM, mdmost said:

I heard that black people call Iron Man, "Cracker Ass Cracker Man". 

I am sure that Kirk Lazarus would disagree...

 

Who would win as best "blackbuster" film of the year: 

Blade remake..?

Luke Cage film..?

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On 3/29/2018 at 3:38 AM, Captain Ron said:

Don't understand the hate. Solid film, easily on the top end of Marvel movies. 

I certainly didn't hate it.  I just feel like they missed a chance to make a really good movie instead of Just Another Blockbuster.  The trip to Asia was gratuitous global marketing that did not serve the story.  The most interesting character (M'Baku) got just a couple minutes of screen time. Just too much attention to FX and too little to narrative to consider it a great film.  Like I said, the Netflix shows (aside from Iron Fist and Defenders) are much better in this regard.

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