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Things seem to be going quite well for Joe Biden


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In addition to Biden's conflict with #metoo, it's not a real great look to maintain stubbornly that you're not sorry for anything you've done. I know it's Trumpian, and that works in 2019. But, given their hatred of Trump, many D voters probably do not want a similarly stubborn and petulant candidate to represent them.

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2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Yes learn something. Don’t run shitty people. Pretty simple.

dems had 8 years to come up with something, and they couldn't do better than hillary.  that's on them.

right now we have several very good options.  if we fuck it up, then it's on us.

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Just now, henrygandorf said:

dems had 8 years to come up with something, and they couldn't do better than hillary.  that's on them.

right now we have several very good options.  if we fuck it up, then it's on us.

This is 100% right. Dems chose poorly. Hillary was a flawed candidate. Don’t pick flawed candidates. We have plenty who are pretty squeaky clean

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5 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Yes learn something. Don’t run shitty people. Pretty simple.

And in the end, if things go the way I think they're going, the Dem candidate will be made out to look like a shitty person, even though they aren't.  

Are you serious that you don't see the pearl clutching and worry over what are LITERALLY minor foibles?  Kamala is too centrist and old school politics, Amy is a bitch, Cory goes whichever way the wind blows, Beto is a lightweight drunk, etc.  These things becaome truths even when they aren't actually true.  It's playing out right now, and frankly, it's just starting.

I hope I'm wrong.  I hope one of these candidates (or several others) surges to the lead and takes the country by storm.  I fear a replay of 2016.  That's a legitimate fear.

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35 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

 


As a liberal, your default position is sanctimonious and condescending towards others especially POC. You talk a good game, but your politics and actions betray your true motives.

Liberals are just as much POS as any racist Trump supporter, they are just too chicken shit to own it.

Know what the difference is between a liberal and a racist redneck? The liberal will call the cops, so they can call me a nigger and shoot me. IOW let the cops do their dirty work. Then of course, you’ll tweet protests from your gated/walled off communities.
 

 

It's interesting that I can speak to you specifically while you only seem able to address me as a tired stereotype provided for you by market driven demagogues. Sad

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I think we’re getting way ahead of ourselves on the “electability” question, which is bullshit IMO.  This election needs to be about something more than just winning or beating Trump.

Beating Trump is the easy part.  Making sure Trump never happens again will be the challenge. 

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23 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

And in the end, if things go the way I think they're going, the Dem candidate will be made out to look like a shitty person, even though they aren't.  

Are you serious that you don't see the pearl clutching and worry over what are LITERALLY minor foibles?  Kamala is too centrist and old school politics, Amy is a bitch, Cory goes whichever way the wind blows, Beto is a lightweight drunk, etc.  These things becaome truths even when they aren't actually true.  It's playing out right now, and frankly, it's just starting.

I hope I'm wrong.  I hope one of these candidates (or several others) surges to the lead and takes the country by storm.  I fear a replay of 2016.  That's a legitimate fear.

The difference is Hillary was considered the de facto 2016 nominee the day after Obama won in 2008. Voters weren't really given a fair choice of candidates. There was a lot of built up hostility within the party regarding Clinton and the DNC turned a blind eye. 

Now we have a shitload of decent/good candidates. I agree that the bickering from people defending/supporting their preferred candidate is terrible right now, but I really think the debates will help solidify the contenders and weed out the pretenders. I also think the candidates themselves will not go negative and put their full support behind the primary winner, which will ease the tensions within the party heading into the Presidential Election. 

 

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Dems bury bodies just as well as the Republicans.

Something to consider: Bill Clinton's history with women is just as bad as Donald Trump's, if not worse. Yet it doesn't stop the Democratic Party and a strong majority of Democratic voters from holding him in high esteem. He is a straight-up rapist and he's still well-regarded by the supposed party of #MeToo.

Beto didn't just get a DWI. He caused an accident while drunk and tried to leave the scene before police got there. Which candidate is hitting him with that? None. And no Dem is going to. Not even us terrifying ideological terrorists, the Bernie Bros, are hammering on about it. (Even though Bernie has never drank alcohol, or touched a woman, or done any other such impure thing. PBUH)

No, if Beto starts winning the Republicans will bring it up, but we will defend it as a young(ish) mistake that shouldn't be held against him. (It shouldn't.)

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i'm dumb and don't know how to spell words
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6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I think we’re getting way ahead of ourselves on the “electability” question, which is bullshit IMO.  This election needs to be about something more than just winning or beating Trump.

Beating Trump is the easy part.  Making sure Trump never happens again will be the challenge. 

YES HUGO

 

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It's interesting that I can speak to you specifically while you only seem able to address me as a tired stereotype provided for you by market driven demagogues. Sad



My apologies good sir. It wasn’t meant to be a specific you. It was meant to include all of you.

And it is not a tired stereotype driven by market demagogues. It’s driven by the liberals and their actions. Especially during campaign season.
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And in the end, if things go the way I think they're going, the Dem candidate will be made out to look like a shitty person, even though they aren't.  
Are you serious that you don't see the pearl clutching and worry over what are LITERALLY minor foibles?  Kamala is too centrist and old school politics, Amy is a bitch, Cory goes whichever way the wind blows, Beto is a lightweight drunk, etc.  These things becaome truths even when they aren't actually true.  It's playing out right now, and frankly, it's just starting.
I hope I'm wrong.  I hope one of these candidates (or several others) surges to the lead and takes the country by storm.  I fear a replay of 2016.  That's a legitimate fear.
Most of the bile spewing and divisiveness will disappear when Bernie inevitably loses in the primary or general and his supporters go back to playing dungeons and dragons. I just hope it's not after we get four more years of Trump.
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13 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

 

 


My apologies good sir. It wasn’t meant to be a specific you. It was meant to include all of you.

And it is not a tired stereotype driven by market demagogues. It’s driven by the liberals and their actions. Especially during campaign season.

 

 

Odd that you think that contradicts anything I wrote.

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38 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I agree that the bickering from people defending/supporting their preferred candidate is terrible right now, but I really think the debates will help solidify the contenders and weed out the pretenders. I also think the candidates themselves will not go negative and put their full support behind the primary winner, which will ease the tensions within the party heading into the Presidential Election. 

 

Dude.  Bernie is currently in the lead along with Biden.  If you think Bernie and his supporters are going to go quietly into this good night, then you are mistaken.  Again, I reiterate:  2016.  Bernie and the Bernie Bros lost the election for the Dems.  That's just the honest truth.  They'll do it again, too.  They are divisive idealogues.  That's what they do.

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Just now, jimmyjazz said:

Dude.  Bernie is currently in the lead along with Biden.  If you think Bernie and his supporters are going to go quietly into this good night, then you are mistaken.  Again, I reiterate:  2016.  Bernie and the Bernie Bros lost the election for the Dems.  That's just the honest truth.  They'll do it again, too.  They are divisive idealogues.  That's what they do.

Nope. Hillary, her campaign, and the DNC lost the 2016 election. Blaming Bernie completely misses the real issue IMO. 

 

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14 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Dude.  Bernie is currently in the lead along with Biden.  If you think Bernie and his supporters are going to go quietly into this good night, then you are mistaken.  Again, I reiterate:  2016.  Bernie and the Bernie Bros lost the election for the Dems.  That's just the honest truth.  They'll do it again, too.  They are divisive idealogues.  That's what they do.

If you say something that's not true but say it's the truth, it becomes true. 

Very Trumpian

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8 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Nope. Hillary, her campaign, and the DNC lost the 2016 election. Blaming Bernie completely misses the real issue IMO. 

 

There's no need to re-litigate it -- if you think Bernie and his crew are "good guys" who put country over themselves you are indeed a fool.  

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1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

If you say something that's not true but say it's the truth, it becomes true. 

Very Trumpian

Fuck you.  You're part of the problem, and have been since well before that election.  No compromise, no eye for strategy or tactics, all or nothing.  Well, thanks a lot.  

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.  Divisive individuals coalescing on the left to fuck us over.  Wave that banner and feel good about yourself as the Republic goes down.  Yay.

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6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

There's no need to re-litigate it -- if you think Bernie and his crew are "good guys" who put country over themselves you are indeed a fool.  

The minute Obama became President, it was common knowledge that Hillary Clinton was the heir apparent. That decision wasn't made by voters, but the Democratic Party. 8 years later, a little know Vermont Senator enters the primary fashionably late, and quickly creates a large movement that gave Hillary a scare. What's the lesson here? That Bernie Bros were lurking in the shadows for years, waiting and hoping that he'd eventually run so they could fuck with Clinton's presidential hopes? Or that a significant portion of liberals were upset at the establishment? Like the GOP, the Democratic Party lost touch with a lot of their voters.

Nominating Biden would be making the same mistake. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

The minute Obama became President, it was common knowledge that Hillary Clinton was the heir apparent. That decision wasn't made by voters, but the Democratic Party. 8 years later, a little know Vermont Senator enters the primary fashionably late, and quickly creates a large movement that gave Hillary a scare. What's the lesson here? That Bernie Bros were lurking in the shadows for years, waiting and hoping that he'd eventually run so they could fuck with Clinton's presidential hopes? Or that a significant portion of liberals were upset at the establishment? Like the GOP, the Democratic Party lost touch with a lot of their voters.

Bernie Sanders isn't even a Democrat.  The DNC owed him nothing.  So he gave her "a scare" -- big deal.  I'm not arguing about who is the best Dem candidate, I'm arguing about not turning this into an Aggie firing squad, and outside of Bernie Sanders, the only people sowing that kind of discord are Republicans and foreign entities like Russia.

 

 

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Nominating Biden would be making the same mistake. 

Please point to where I've said otherwise.  I think he's a horrible choice.  End of story.  Best case scenario, he never declares.

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I too have never stated Biden is the best candidate or my preferred candidate. I have no preferred candidate right now. My issue I'd like to get to the actual primaries and get these people on a stage together before summarily dismissing them based on past issues or how adequately they do or do not apologize for past behaviors. I want the best possible candidate who can stand toe to toe with Trump on the stage and adequately explain to the voters why they and their policies are better for the American people than 4 more years of Trump. Because I fear when push comes to shove, the voters are going to side with 4 more years because it "hasn't been that bad and my 401K is good".  

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8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

No compromise, no eye for strategy or tactics, all or nothing.

Re: compromise

What are you talking about, specifically? What compromise is supposed to be happening right now or during the 2016 primary?

Re: strategy

Bernie's strategy was better than Hillary's and remains one that will win. Reach out to the working classes and appeal directly to their needs by understanding their pain, respecting them as humans, and having specific plans to address those pains.

Re: tactics

Bernie's tactics were also better than Hillary's and remain tactics that will win. Bernie will physically visit poor and working class areas with regularity (as he is already doing, literally right now he's in Malcom, Iowa, population lower than 300) and spread the strategy. He will campaign hard in the Midwest and Rust Belt, which is where our victory will come from.

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Bernie Sanders isn't even a Democrat.

The Democratic Party is designed to be a big-tent coalition, and he's always been under that big tent.

He's not an establishment, DNC Democrat, that's true. And it's the best hope we have.

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 The DNC owed him nothing.  So he gave her "a scare" -- big deal.

It's not about what the DNC owed Sanders, but what the DNC owed the voters it needed to win.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

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 I'm not arguing about who is the best Dem candidate, I'm arguing about not turning this into an Aggie firing squad, and outside of Bernie Sanders, the only people sowing that kind of discord are Republicans and foreign entities like Russia.

Says the guy throwing out negs.

Sure thing, bud.

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Just now, jimmyjazz said:

I negged you because you equated me to Trump.  You should watch your mouth.

lol sure thing tough guy

Trump lies while saying, "believe me." You did the same. If you don't like being called out, don't do the thing.

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I'll let your other spew slide -- you're delusional and have no concept of the big picture.  Same as always.

Tell me about the big picture. Tell me about the compromises, strategies, and tactics.

I'm ready to learn.

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Like I said, you're the problem.  You and your kind infect what could be a broad-based coalition to (a) get Trump out of office and (b) achieve at least some semblance of stability along with recapturing some of the gains that HAD been made but have been reversed because of dickbags who aligned with the left but voted right.  I'm not gonna write a dissertation for you.  Look in the mirror and then do some fucking homework.  It wasn't that long ago.

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3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

You and your kind infect what could be a broad-based coalition to (a) get Trump out of office and (b) achieve at least some semblance of stability along with recapturing some of the gains that HAD been made but have been reversed because of dickbags who aligned with the left but voted right.

In your mind, who is the Bernie primary voter who ended up voting for Trump?

Option 1: The socially conservative (LGBTQ-skeptical, race-uncomfortable)/fiscally liberal (pro-spending, pro-entitlements) working class people who liked Bernie in the primary because he spoke out against Wall Street and the banks and said they deserved free education and healthcare

Option 2: The socially liberal/fiscally liberal Brocialists who are terminally ironic and online all day sending centrists PigPoopBalls.jpg

Which one of those two species voted for Trump in 2016? If you're actually being honest instead of simply saying you're being honest, it's obvious. No one in the DSA voted for Donald Trump. They went Clinton, Stein, or no-vote. They didn't "vote(d) right". The Obama->Bernie->Trump voter is not a socialist. He's not a Leftist.

If you want Democrats to win, we have to bring the working class back into the fold. The suburbs are not the answer, because the people in the suburbs are socially and fiscally conservative. We shouldn't ignore the suburbs, but they were the center of the 2016 Clinton campaign and it didn't work. It was bad strategy. It was bad tactics.

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I too have never stated Biden is the best candidate or my preferred candidate. I have no preferred candidate right now. My issue I'd like to get to the actual primaries and get these people on a stage together before summarily dismissing them based on past issues or how adequately they do or do not apologize for past behaviors. I want the best possible candidate who can stand toe to toe with Trump on the stage and adequately explain to the voters why they and their policies are better for the American people than 4 more years of Trump. Because I fear when push comes to shove, the voters are going to side with 4 more years because it "hasn't been that bad and my 401K is good".  


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1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Nope. Hillary, her campaign, and the DNC lost the 2016 election. Blaming Bernie completely misses the real issue IMO. 

 

Yep. People that blame Bernie for Hillary’s loss just don’t make any sense to me. She did a damn good job of losing all on her own. Maybe the Russians helped her along the way somewhat but it wasn’t Bernie. 

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I hate to admit this but Trump was a phenomenal candidate.  Horrible person and awful president but that guy knew how to manipulate the media and draw a crowd.  Trump had the historical advantage of coming off a two term democratic president.  And let’s not pretend like it was close with Trump and the Republicans in their primaries, it wasn’t.  Trump crushed all of them.   Just some things to keep in mind as we keep blaming Hillary who got 4 million more votes than Bernie and 3 million more votes than Trump.

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15 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I hate to admit this but Trump was a phenomenal candidate.  Horrible person and awful president but that guy knew how to manipulate the media and draw a crowd.  Trump had the historical advantage of coming off a two term democratic president.  And let’s not pretend like it was close with Trump and the Republicans in their primaries, it wasn’t.  Trump crushed all of them.   Just some things to keep in mind as we keep blaming Hillary who got 4 million more votes than Bernie and 3 million more votes than Trump.

Nope. Trump was lucky to get the perfect opponent. He gets destroyed by any decent candidate that wasn't named Hillary Clinton.  Rs despised her so much that they latched on to Dotard in the end. It was the perfect storm. 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I hate to admit this but Trump was a phenomenal candidate.  Horrible person and awful president but that guy knew how to manipulate the media and draw a crowd.  Trump had the historical advantage of coming off a two term democratic president.  And let’s not pretend like it was close with Trump and the Republicans in their primaries, it wasn’t.  Trump crushed all of them.   Just some things to keep in mind as we keep blaming Hillary who got 4 million more votes than Bernie and 3 million more votes than Trump.

some of this.

Nope. Trump was lucky to get the perfect opponent. He gets destroyed by any decent candidate that wasn't named Hillary Clinton.  Rs despised her so much that they latched on to Dotard in the end. It was the perfect storm.

also some of this.

in regards to "the perfect storm" - he was also not a politician, so nobody knew how he would govern.  he was a fucking wildcard running against a known quantity.  enough people chose the devil they didn't know over the devil they knew (in the swing states that decided the election, not overall, i realize).

the fact that he won is believable in the current climate.  the fact that he might win again is astounding to me.

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15 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Nope. Trump was lucky to get the perfect opponent. He gets destroyed by any decent candidate that wasn't named Hillary Clinton.  Rs despised her so much that they latched on to Dotard in the end. It was the perfect storm. 

 

 

Yep.  The democrats tied theIr wagon to Hillary. Any other democratic candidate would have gotten my vote including Bernie, and Uncle Joe, and there would be no Trump today.

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1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

some of this.

 

 

also some of this.

in regards to "the perfect storm" - he was also not a politician, so nobody knew how he would govern.  he was a fucking wildcard running against a known quantity.  enough people chose the devil they didn't know over the devil they knew (in the swing states that decided the election, not overall, i realize).

the fact that he won is believable in the current climate.  the fact that he might win again is astounding to me.

His greatest asset was he was an outsider.

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On 4/7/2019 at 7:25 PM, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yep.  The democrats tied theIr wagon to Hillary. Any other democratic candidate would have gotten my vote including Bernie, and Uncle Joe, and there would be no Trump today.

There’s no need to lie to us.

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I have no need to lie. I've voted across party lines my entire life. I made that comment the entire lead up time to the 2016 vote.

Nobody on this planet, or even all planets yet to be discovered, believes you.

Don’t give up hope. Maybe in an alternate universe there is a sentient being dumb enough to buy that.

You’ll be voting for Trump in 2020, with no hillary on the ballot.
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1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:


Nobody on this planet, or even all planets yet to be discovered, believes you.

Don’t give up hope. Maybe in an alternate universe there is a sentient being dumb enough to buy that.

You’ll be voting for Trump in 2020, with no hillary on the ballot.

I don't care what you believe.  I've said it many times, my vote was against Hillary, not for Trump.  Joe Biden or Bernie was the 2016 candidate, and I'd have voted for them.  If the democrats have a candidate that can fog a mirror they'll probably get my vote in 2020.

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I don't care what you believe.  I've said it many times, my vote was against Hillary, not for Trump.  Joe Biden or Bernie was the 2016 candidate, and I'd have voted for them.  If the democrats have a candidate that can fog a mirror they'll probably get my vote in 2020.

I’m glad you don’t care what anyone else believes. Because nobody believes you. You’re a shamed Trumper, but you’ll still pull the lever for him, because goshdurnit, the Dem nominee (doesn’t matter who) is too much like Hillary!
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  • immamac changed the title to Things seem to be going quite well for Joe Biden


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